Kail and Javi

[gunderda]

On 5/25/2016 at 7:54 AM, poopchute said:

Is Javi still deployed in real time or is he home?  I feel like it's kind of weird to make the decision to divorce before talking about it in person so I hope he's home and they made the decision together to ou kick announce it.

I have quite a few friends in the military.  It's apparently very common for divorce to happen when one is deployed.  

I had a friend that was deployed for 6 months last year (same job at Javi).  I think she said there were multiple people in her unit that came home divorced and they weren't a very large group because they were basically filling in spots for another unit. 

[jadecorleone]

2 hours ago, gunderda said:

I have quite a few friends in the military.  It's apparently very common for divorce to happen when one is deployed.  

I had a friend that was deployed for 6 months last year (same job at Javi).  I think she said there were multiple people in her unit that came home divorced and they weren't a very large group because they were basically filling in spots for another unit. 

Thats pretty much what happened during both my deployments. On the last one I know of at least 5 people that divorced during our time in country. Granted one of them had already filed before we left but still. Not only that but there was untold amounts of cheating and removing of rings going on. They figured what happened there, stayed there. One of the many things about military life that will never change. 

[NikSac]

On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 3:59 PM, Lm2162 said:

I think they were doomed to divorce with or without the miscarriage. But thinking it wasn't his when they were actively discussing having a child and young, fertile, sexually active married people? That's way too much of a stretch for me. 

I wish it was too much of a stretch for me. Unfortunately a very dear family member went through this.  My family member found out his.wife was cheating while they were trying to get pregnant. I never thought I'd know so much about prenatal paternity testing. 

[ReadMeLattice]

@NikSac, I don't doubt that it happens. I haven't known anyone whose female partner had a child with someone else, but I've known someone whose male partner did, and it was very devastating. But in this situation, there's no indication or proof of that happening, and far more proof and indications that it didn't and that they had sex, conceived, and she miscarried, like the vast majority of people in partnerships both unhealthy and healthy. People have unplanned pregnancies and planned ones with people they barely like, and certainly with their partners/spouses, constantly. Their marriage being bad indicates nothing about whether or not the child is Javi's. 

Edited June 2, 2016 by Lm2162

[Brooklynista]

9 minutes ago, Lm2162 said:

@NikSac, I don't doubt that it happens. I haven't known anyone whose female partner had a child with someone else, but I've known someone whose male partner did, and it was very devastating. But in this situation, there's no indication or proof of that happening, and far more proof and indications that it didn't and that they had sex, conceived, and she miscarried, like the vast majority of people in partnerships both unhealthy and healthy. People have unplanned pregnancies and planned ones with people they barely like, and certainly with their partners/spouses, constantly. Their marriage being bad indicates nothing about whether or not the child is Javi's. 

Chile, don't you watch any Maury? Hmph, that kind of scandalous shit happens every day.  If the baby had survived,  I would have loved to see Kail running off the stage when Maury told Javi he was NOT the father.

[ReadMeLattice]

1 minute ago, Brooklynista said:

Chile, don't you watch any Maury? Hmph, that kind of scandalous shit happens every day.  If the baby had survived,  I would have loved to see Kail running off the stage when Maury told Javi he was NOT the father.

Javi wouldn't have been able to shut up about that if it was even a remote possibility. This is a man who flipped out over a phone password and had a public fight about it on national TV and in front of his wife's friends.  No way, no how. Certainly wouldn't have been able to swallow his pride and bitch about CrossFit instead. 

[GreatKazu]

Javi may have had thoughts or doubts without having actual proof of cheating. The password situation - there was proof in that Kail was chatting with a school mate and she would not share her password. That is why Javi blew up. The facts in that matter existed. Cheating was not mentioned although he likely felt that might be a possibility, he just did not have proof. If there were facts to back up she may have been cheating, he likely would have said something about it. 

[Brooklynista]

Javi definitely would have tossed that theory at her in a heated argument. Proof or no proof.

He was so quick to say "your son" during one spat.  No doubt he would have hurled an angry " that's probably not even my baby" at her.

[ReadMeLattice]

@Brooklynista, yeah, Javi's never been one to worry much about "proof." The texts he freaked out about were "what's up" and "are you going to class today" (even he said so). They had nothing to do with cheating or even personal stuff, yet they led to a season of heated arguments. That guy is definitely never going to keep quiet because he doesn't have categorical proof. 

Plus, they were in the ICU together. I'm pretty sure they'd been to doctors' appointments together. He's the kind of guy to demand prenatal paternity testing. Just really unrealistic to think that Kailyn had unprotected sex (likely more than once) at the exact same time as she did with Javi in between full time school, two kids, and a tight leash from Javi, at the same time they happened to be trying for a baby, and then it never came up again, she happened to miscarry, and didn't consider abortion. That's...a lot. 

Also, she's no dummy. She'd use a condom. 

Edited June 2, 2016 by Lm2162

[GreatKazu]

True dat Brooklynista.

With all the wonky editing and all the drama that has been edited out to protect other cast members for whatever reasons, the same can hold for Javi and Karl. For all we know he may have called out "puta" to Karl many times which is where Lincoln picked it up. To save face, they put the blame on the grandpa who may also use that word in the presence of kids.

Edited June 2, 2016 by GreatKazu

[Chicken Wing]

Quote

 I would have loved to see Kail running off the stage when Maury told Javi he was NOT the father.

Kail wouldn't do the run of shame. She'd just flip out and do something to make the camera immediately cut away to the audience going "Ohhhhhhhhh!"

[FlowerofCarnage]

19 minutes ago, Chicken Wing said:

Kail wouldn't do the run of shame. She'd just flip out and do something to make the camera immediately cut away to the audience going "Ohhhhhhhhh!"

Like shake the crap  out Maury's head like she did Javi. Lol

[GreatKazu]

Kail asks guys to wear condoms?? She claimed to have received an STD from Jo. This was on the reunion show that aired after the season where Jordon chewed out Kail's ass for cheating on him. 

Now, if Kail did receive an STD as she claimed, who knows where she got it since she was not faithful. She may have gotten the STD from Jordon, Jo, or some other dude. Or, she may have had it but did not know until it surfaced.

[ReadMeLattice]

By all accounts, Jo was as well, so who knows, but that's neither here nor there. I will say that there are plenty of STDs one can get while wearing condoms, and Kail was on birth control at that time, so if she didn't use them she was still preventing pregnancy with at least one method. What I meant by the condoms comment is that if she was off birth control in order to conceive with Javi (which obviously she was), she certainly wouldn't have been using NO birth control with the guy. She's always used birth control responsibly except when she was 16/pregnant with Isaac. She's also not an idiot with her womb like Jenelle or Leah; she wouldn't risk having a child with another man while trying to get pregnant with a different one. 

[ivgotspirit02]

32 minutes ago, Lm2162 said:

By all accounts, Jo was as well, so who knows, but that's neither here nor there. I will say that there are plenty of STDs one can get while wearing condoms, and Kail was on birth control at that time, so if she didn't use them she was still preventing pregnancy with at least one method. What I meant by the condoms comment is that if she was off birth control in order to conceive with Javi (which obviously she was), she certainly wouldn't have been using NO birth control with the guy. She's always used birth control responsibly except when she was 16/pregnant with Isaac. She's also not an idiot with her womb like Jenelle or Leah; she wouldn't risk having a child with another man while trying to get pregnant with a different one. 

Didn't she also have an abortion before Isaac was born? I thought she said that in her book or something. She doesn't strike me as the poster child for safe sex. And condoms aren't 100% effective either. I think it's completely possible the baby was another man's. 

ETA: I just checked and saw her abortion was the result of a rape so obviously that was no fault of her own. 

Edited June 2, 2016 by ivgotspirit02

[Mkay]

1 minute ago, ivgotspirit02 said:

Didn't she also have an abortion before Isaac was born? I thought she said that in her book or something. She doesn't strike me as the poster child for safe sex. And condoms aren't 100% effective either. I think it's completely possible the baby was another man's. 

I think you are right.  I read the book a long time ago but I do think she admitted to it.

[Chicken Wing]

Quote

ETA: I just checked and saw her abortion was the result of a rape so obviously that was no fault of her own.

Kail describes it as being raped, but from what I recall of that part of her story nothing about the situation sounded like she was raped to me. It seemed to me nothing more than a teenage girl who gave in and agreed to have sex with her boyfriend in order to keep him because he kept bugging her about it. It didn't sound like she was forced or coerced, etc. Is it rape if you agree and consent to sex even though you kinda sorta didn't really want to? Like, "eh, I'm not sure I really wanna but .. okay, we can do it."

Edited June 3, 2016 by Chicken Wing

[ReadMeLattice]

She was in ninth grade and described it as intense pressure to the point of feeling like she had to do it. Emotional coercion can certainly be violating. She said he had to put on a condom, but when it came to the moment, he wouldn't and continued anyway. She says that he knew she did not want it and did not care whether she enjoyed it. I would definitely describe that as rape. Especially if you're 15.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Lm2162

[Chicken Wing]

I don't know, I feel like most teenage girls who have ever had sex are probably victims of rape if feeling pressured to have sex would be considered coercion in that way, and it still doesn't seem like more than the guy just cared about getting his and didn't care about her feelings or happiness about doing it. It's almost a textbook high school stereotype. Unfortunately, it's also far too common to equate "I didn't really want/wasn't ready to have sex" with "It was rape." I don't doubt that Kail felt like that's what it was, especially at the time, but based on how she described it herself I wouldn't. Maybe she's not describing it right. Oh well, moving on.

[ChocolateAddict]

I think conversations about the grey area of teenage sex/rape might be a bit much for a TM2 forum where the phrase "you're looking luscious like an avocado from Mexico" has been mentioned multiple times, lol. 

[guilfoyleatpp]

Consent: If a woman/girl isn't of appropriate (or legal) age and doesn't give consent all the way through, it's not consensual sex.

I don't want to derail this convo, but I'm super uncomfortable with extending dislike for Kailyn to denying that rape occurred. 

It sounds like rape. She says she didn't give consent. It's very damaging to every woman to read things like "it happens all the time" or "I don't believe her because I think she's not a good person."

That's my piece. I've said it. And I will say no more about consent/rape etc.

[Chicken Wing]

Oh, no no no, my bringing up my skepticism on the rape has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with my personal feelings about Kail, and I never said it did. I bring this up only because someone mentioned her past abortion after being raped, and I chimed in with my thoughts on that particular situation because I was always iffy about it for the reasons I described above. It's my objective read on the situation based on how she herself described it. And the issue to me is that it sounds like she did give consent; she explained that she felt pressured by the boyfriend to have sex and she eventually decided to go ahead and do it because she loved him and didn't want to lose him. And as a woman who has had that pressure from a boyfriend and who has been faced with the decision to have sex or not have sex because it felt like I "should," not once did it ever equate to rape. (And I've been in other situations where it did. All too familiar with the grey area.) That's where I'm iffy, and my questioning it has nothing at all to do with not liking Kail or thinking she's a liar or not a good person or whatever. That's irrelevant. It's not that I don't believe her. I believe she thinks she was raped. I don't think she's lying or making it up or anything. I just disagree with her assessment of the situation, strictly due to what she described of it. Now that is all. I don't want this discussion to go on, but I just wanted to be clear that bringing this up was not part of the usual indictment on Kail's character. I'm honestly not sure why that connection was even made.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Chicken Wing