S04.E18: Eleven-Fifty-Nine

[bijoux]

If Oliver conjured up the most boring human being ever, his mind is even more effed up than I feared.

[dtissagirl]

But it would account for her accent changing every 3 words.

[kismet]

Isn't that what Poppy has been?

Nope... the volleyball definitely has better acting chops. :)

[Guest]

Well, this isn't fair. Now I want #Poppy to be a figment of Oliver's imagination and I'm gonna be disappointed when she isn't. 

[catrox14]

Nope... the volleyball definitely has better acting chops. :)

 

I feel bad for the actress. She's actually not as bad this role shows. She had two small roles on SPN and thought she was pretty good. She played a ghost hooker from the 1800s, who was scared of her situation and didn't know what was happening. And then last season she was a soul hooker LOL. She was sexy, seductive, a little bit comedic and angry.  She has range is all I'm saying! 

[BkWurm1]

Between the writing and pacing of the flashbacks and yeah, her terrible accent, Poppy really didn't have much a chance to shine.  I don't even really hate her.  She's too beige to hate.  The least they could have done was stranded her on the island in a colorful t-shirt. 

[Starfish35]

I don't even really hate her.  She's too beige to hate.  The least they could have done was stranded her on the island in a colorful t-shirt.

Lol. No, I don't hate her at all. I would actually have to feel something about her to hate her. She's just completely and totally forgettable.

[doesntworkonwood]

I'm sorry, who are you guys talking about again?

[Starfish35]

...I don't remember.

[kennyab]

Is it too soon to hope we get to visit an alternate universe where we meet Dinah Lance, a florist who only shares a name and nighttime interest with the Arrowverse's BC?

[catrox14]

Is it too soon to hope we get to visit an alternate universe where we meet Dinah Lance, a florist who only shares a name and nighttime interest with the Arrowverse's BC?

 

Only if that visit does not include KC as said Dinah Lance or if it is her she's killed off in that universe too. Kill her off in all the universes. Works for me

[kennyab]

Only if that visit does not include KC as said Dinah Lance or if it is her she's killed off in that universe too. Kill her off in all the universes. Works for me

 

Was definitely implying a different actor. And doing right by one of my fave characters.

[BkWurm1]

After hearing about Sara's interest in horticulture in season 2, I keep expecting her to buy one when she retires from time traveling. 

Edited April 15, 2016 by BkWurm1

[Potanical Pardon]

Consider me "whatever" by her death. I didn't like the character nor the actress, though she started to warm to me somewhat.

 

I had to look at articles online to verify she was off the show/the person in the grave. And I'm not convinced she's done, besides the E2 stuff and whatever flashbacks. I've been waiting for some episode involving her mom where she legit gets the real canary cry and the name, Dinah, gets passed onto her and/or becomes the name that she identifies with and goes by. I still feel like they're going to bring back Black Canary one day. Maybe in the series finale or something where she just suddenly shows up to help. I'm not sure how, but

Sara already got the Lazarus Pit comic revival. They might not want to use that again.

 

If she ever does return, I hope it goes something like this:

 

 

I know the actress can maaaybe pull it off. I admit (read:confess) that I watched her on Melrose Place.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Potanical Pardon

[bijoux]

Bad watchdog, Green Arrow. Bad, bad watchdog.

[tarotx]

Sara was the original Canary so there was no story with Laurel's mom needed. And Laurel wasn't in central city to get the meta Canary cry. She didn't need it any way. Her Cisco version worked with her vocal cords. Dinah Laurel Lance might have always been a meta human but Black Canary hasn't been so there was no reason to actually do that in show. 

 

I do love the GA&BA cartoon characters. Oliver not Laurel match are those characters. But I think When Oliver finds out Sara is Alive is close to this scene you posted-though not as fun. As well is some of the Huntresses stuff. Plus Oliver and Felicity have the sexual innuendos. 

Consider me "whatever" by her death. I didn't like the character nor the actress, though she started to warm to me somewhat.

 

I had to look at articles online to verify she was off the show/the person in the grave. And I'm not convinced she's done, besides the E2 stuff and whatever flashbacks. I've been waiting for some episode involving her mom where she legit gets the real canary cry and the name, Dinah, gets passed onto her and/or becomes the name that she identifies with and goes by. I still feel like they're going to bring back Black Canary one day. Maybe in the series finale or something where she just suddenly shows up to help. I'm not sure how, but

Sara already got the Lazarus Pit comic revival. They might not want to use that again.

 

If she ever does return, I hope it goes something like this:

 

 

I know the actress can maaaybe pull it off. I admit (read:confess) that I watched her on Melrose Place.

[BkWurm1]

had to look at articles online to verify she was off the show/the person in the grave. And I'm not convinced she's done, besides the E2 stuff and whatever flashbacks.

 

It's really interesting that the death that was supposed to prove to everyone that "DEATH IS FOR REAL!!" on Arrow again was set up in such a way that so many still question it being real. 

 

The side effect though of Laurel's death being such "proof" is they really do need to make sure they never bring her back for more than a flashback or one off appearance from another universe or they will have undercut the very message they were trying to send with her death.  It kind of salts the earth though, doesn't it, giving the show runners a meta reason why they CAN'T ever bring her back.  I wonder which came first, the decision to kill her or he decision that this death would stand as a reminder that death is permanent?  Did they just add the spin as further justification or did they feel they had a problem that needed to be addressed. 

 

Either way it implies the show runners want to make sure that Laurel never is a regular again.  

 

Of course knowing how the CW swaps out show runners for the longer running shows, all promises after a while don't guarantee a thing.   

Edited April 15, 2016 by BkWurm1

[lemotomato]

I wonder which came first, the decision to kill her or he decision that this death would stand as a reminder that death is permanent?  Did they just add the spin as further justification or did they feel they had a problem that needed to be addressed. 

 

Either way it implies the show runners want to make sure that Laurel never is a regular again.  

Oooh, this is a good question.

 

I think the decision that the death would be permanent came before who they decided to kill off. When they were plotting out season 4, they knew that they had to deal with the several ways to sidestep death in the Flarrow-verse: the Lazarus Pit, magic, time travel, and alternate universes. So far we've seen them use the LP, and then destroy it. They used time travel in 408, so I'm guessing that will be eliminated as a possibility in the future (either on Arrow, or LoT), as well as magic. AU will probably be addressed in The Flash. 

 

From BTS info about KC, it sounds like they were looking for an excuse to get write her off anyway, so by having Laurel be the example of a character death that can't be undone they were *ahem* killing two birds with one stone. 

[tv echo]

Contrary to certain claims, ratings did not plummet after this episode (they had plummeted after 415 - source)...

418 (Eleven-Fifty-Nine) – No Oliver Queen voiceover intro.

418 (Eleven-Fifty-Nine) – Diggle serves up some truth tea to Oliver:
Oliver: “John, you are the one who always tells me, do not have a blind spot when it comes to your family.” 
Diggle: “And you're the one who told me to give Andy a second chance. You're the one who wanted to extract him from H.I.V.E. You're the one who said he could come back from the darkness the same way you did.” 
Oliver: “But I didn't. I've tried. I've tried harder at this than I ever have at anything, but at the end of the day, I am who those five years away turned me into - I'm what they turned me into.”
Diggle: “So what, Oliver, just because Felicity left you, I'm supposed to believe that all men are incapable of redemption? Not all men are like you, Oliver. Some of us change, some of us grow, some of us evolve. You are stuck, man, stuck in your self-pity and your self-righteousness, and that is why Felicity left you.”

418 (Eleven-Fifty-Nine) – Oliver tells Laurel that the team is falling apart.
Laurel: “Hey. Are you okay?” 
Oliver: “John and I had a difference of opinion.” 
Laurel: “About Andy?” 
Oliver: “I confronted Andy, and Dig walked in.” 
Laurel: “Mmm.” 
Oliver: “Yeah. Probably should have taken your advice, District Attorney Lance.”
Laurel: “I'm still just an A.D.A. I'm turning down the promotion.” 
Oliver: “Because it's being offered by Ruvé Darhk?” 
Laurel: “No, because taking the job means giving up my place here with you and the team.”
Oliver: “The team's falling apart. John's furious with me, Thea's consumed with a rage for Malcolm, and… well, Felicity's gone. Becoming district attorney's something that you've worked the better part of three years for.” 
Laurel: “I might have wanted to be D.A., but that was a lifetime ago.” 
Oliver: “Sara's lifetime? You channeled your grief and became the Black Canary, but Sara's not dead anymore. Maybe you owe it to yourself to pursue the path you were on.”
Laurel: “You're serious?” 
Oliver: “This city has enough heroes with masks on. With Ruvé Darhk as mayor, it needs a hero without a mask. It needs Laurel Lance.”

418 (Eleven-Fifty-Nine) – In a flashback scene, Oliver tells Taiana that Laurel was his "home before this" and also promises to go to Russia if something happens to Taiana:
Taiana: “How do you know how to do this, to bury a man alive? You were right how this island changed you. Do you still look at your picture? (Oliver hands her the photo) She's beautiful. Who is she?”
Oliver: “Her name is Laurel Lance, and she was my home before this. I don't know what she'll think of the man I've become.”
Taiana: “If I don't make it off this island, you will go to Russia and find my parents and tell them what happened to me and Vlad. If you don't make it, I will find this Laurel and tell her how you saved us all. Deal?” 
Oliver: “Deal.”

418 (Eleven-Fifty-Nine) – Team Arrow visits Laurel in the hospital after her surgery:
(Felicity, Diggle and Thea enter the hospital hallway and see Oliver standing there.  Felicity goes over to give Oliver a long hug.)
Oliver: “Hi.” 
Felicity: “Laurel – is she –?”
Oliver: “Laurel's in surgery. Um… I don't know. I've tried calling Lance, too, so… (To Thea) What happened with Darhk?”
Thea: “He's in the wind, along with 50 or so inmates.” 
Diggle: “And Andy. You warned me, and I didn't listen. I'll never be able to forgive myself.” (Oliver puts a hand on Diggle’s shoulder)
(Medical staff wheels Laurel on a gurney past them into a hospital room.)
Felicity: “Oh, my God.” 
Doctor: “Just out of recovery. She's gonna be fine. She's a strong woman, your friend.”
Felicity: “The strongest.”
Doctor: “She's been asking for you.”
(Diggle, Felicity, Thea and Oliver enter the hospital room.)
Laurel: “Hi.” 
Thea: “Hey, yourself.”
Laurel: “Did Darhk –“
Felicity: “Don't worry about him. Just worry about getting better, okay?” 
Laurel: “It's not exactly how I wanted my last night to go.”
Diggle: “What are you talking about?” 
Laurel: "It's a long story. I was gonna give up being the Black Canary, but I realized I didn't know how I could, because going out there and fighting alongside you guys, it's what makes me feel alive inside… And I love you guys so much.” 
Felicity: “We love you.” 
Thea: “We love you.” 
Diggle: “We love you.”
(Cut to Oliver, who remains silent.) 
Thea: “We should probably let you get some rest.” 
Felicity: “We'll be right outside, okay?” 
Laurel: “Okay. You should probably get some rest, too.” 
Oliver: “No chance. I'm gonna stay right here.” 
Laurel: There's… something in my left pouch. Will you bring it to me?” 
Oliver: “Yeah. May I?” (Opens pouch)
Laurel: “Yeah.” 
Oliver: “You kept this? (Holding up old photo of Laurel that he had on the island)
Laurel: “Yeah. Just a little reminder of when things were simpler. For us - the way we used to be. I'm really glad that you found Felicity, and I hope you find your way back to her. And Ollie, I know that I am not the love of your life… but you will always be the love of mine.” 
Oliver: “Why are you telling me this? Why now?” 
Laurel: “Because tonight it was just a reminder that… anything can happen, which why I need you to promise me something.” (*)
(Cut to exterior of building, looking through window into her hospital room.)

(* As you'll see when I post the 501 transcriptions, what Laurel then says to Oliver apparently changed between when the Arrow S5 trailer was shown during SDCC in July 2016 and when episode 501 actually aired in October 2016.)

418 (Eleven-Fifty-Nine) – Laurel dies:
(Diggle and Felicity are waiting in the hospital corridor when Thea comes up to them.)
Thea: “I just got off the phone with Captain Lance. He's on his way. I - I told him that she's doing fine.”
(Doctor and medical staff, with gurney, rush up to enter Laurel’s room.) 
Doctor: “Out of the way!”
(Inside room, Laurel is convulsing on her bed.)
Unidentified guy: “She’s seizing!”
Doctor: “Embolism. I need 5,000 units of heparin bolus!”
Felicity: “What happened?”
Oliver: “Uh, I - I don't know. She was fine.” 
(Machine flatlines.)
Doctor: “Paddles! 
Unidentified guy: “Charging.”
Another unidentified guy: “Clear?”
Doctor: “Clear.”
Unidentified guy: “Nothing.”
Doctor: “Come on. Come on. Come on!”
Oliver (softly): “Come on, Laurel.”
(Laurel dies.)
Doctor: “Time of death. 11:59.”
(Felicity sobs and turns to a teary Diggle, who holds her. Thea turns to Oliver, who holds her. Then a stunned Oliver walks out into the hospital hallway, where he sees Quentin entering the end of the hallway.  Quentin sees Oliver’s face, knows the truth, and stumbles against the wall, where he collapses to the floor.)

Edited February 28, 2020 by tv echo