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S04.E02: Pastor Tim


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I love that it seems like Philip and Elizabeth are going to know about Paige telling, but Paige won't know they know, but then she'll switch things up by confessing on her own, so then she'll know they know, but she won't know they knew before she knew they knew, unless they tell her that they knew before she told them!

Edited by sistermagpie
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It just occurred to me that Paige's parents knowing about Pastor Tim, and her knowing they know, might actually get her her first spy lessons. Because once they talk about her telling, if they don't decide to kill the guy (which it doesn't seem they will) they'd probably direct her on how to handle him, what to say to keep him from looking into them or something. 

 

Of course, I assume that will involve some lying on their part to Paige--they don't do anything bad, so tell him we don't do anything bad. But still, I think Paige put herself in a Martha situation of her own doing here if she wants to keep the status quo, or as much of it as is left.

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I love that it seems like Philip and Elizabeth are going to know about Paige telling, but Paige won't know they know, but then she'll switch things up by confessing on her own, so then she'll know they know, but she won't know they knew before she knew they knew, unless they tell her that they knew before she told them!

 

 

And that brings something else to mind.

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And that brings something else to mind.

LOL!!!  That is one of my favorite episodes!!  I just rewatched most of it from the link. 

 

Paige and Pastor Tim don't know that Philip & Elizabeth know that she told him.  Unlike the Friends episode, there may be actual sex by God only knows who and it looks like a strangulation by Philip. 

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HELP!!!!!

I am working overnight 7p - 7:30a on Wednesday, don't have DVR and my hospital (I'm an RN) doesn't get Fx. Where can I watch it???

Thanks in advance!!

1. You can watch it on FX's website--or a website connected to it--but I think you have to have an app for that.

2. You can also get (buy) the ep from iTunes as soon as Thursday & watch it that way--but you have to have/download iTunes to watch it.

3. And, FX should be airing Pastor Tim again next Wednesday night/early Thursday morning; their usual pattern is to air the new ep twice in a row, followed by a repeat of the previous week's ep, followed by another airing of the new ep. So, this week they should be airing Pastor Tim twice in a row, starting at 10PM Eastern/9PM Central, followed by Glanders & another showing of Pastor Tim.

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Ever since Pastor Tim appeared on this show, I've thought he was KGB and grooming Paige is his mission.

 

Actually he could be grooming a lot of impressionable young kids, but Paige will be the jewel in the KGB's crown.

Edited by lcarolynl
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And that brings something else to mind.

 

 

That's exactly what was in my head too!

 

Actually he could be grooming a lot of impressionable young kids, but Paige will be the jewel in the KGB's crown.

 

 

Paige is meant to be the jewel in the KGB crown—because she’s the daughter of Philip and Elizabeth. They are the ones in a unique place to bring her in. A second generation Illegal who feels like a Russian because her parents are Russian. (Jewel in this case simply meaning she's an American citizen who'll work for them and not even feel like a traitor.)

 

Pastor Tim is grooming Paige and other kids to be Christians (based on his personal definition of that word). Some aspects of those two belief systems overlap, but a lot of them don’t.

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1. You can watch it on FX's website--or a website connected to it--but I think you have to have an app for that.

2. You can also get (buy) the ep from iTunes as soon as Thursday & watch it that way--but you have to have/download iTunes to watch it.

3. And, FX should be airing Pastor Tim again next Wednesday night/early Thursday morning; their usual pattern is to air the new ep twice in a row, followed by a repeat of the previous week's ep, followed by another airing of the new ep. So, this week they should be airing Pastor Tim twice in a row, starting at 10PM Eastern/9PM Central, followed by Glanders & another showing of Pastor Tim.

Thank you very much, BW Manilowe!!!

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It's hilarious that based on what he's actually said on the show and in previews after Glanders (repeating things so it's not a spoiler) he's suggesting giving himself authority to approve or disapprove of foreign espionage. Like if her parents aren't hurting people by his opinion it's okay, but it should go through him.

Like maybe the KGB could run assignments by him first. And that wouldn't be treason. LOL!

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Wow, that scene in the bus was intense!  I don't blame that pilot for walking away and leaving the poison, but he's probably a dead man now too.

 

So, killing the pastor becomes more problematic now that Paige knows they know?  Oops, previews came on after I hit post.  Ha.

 

I seriously love this show.

Edited by Umbelina
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This show, man. Not much happened, Pastor Tim only appeared in Elizabeth's dream and this hour just flew by. They gotta quit teasing Tim's death, though. This is getting near Glenn-level.

William's a real charmer, hard to believe he hasn't made a lot of friends at work.

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How did Nina not realize she was killing her husband with that stunt?  She honestly thought they weren't bugged, that every moment wasn't being watched?

 

Philip not telling Elizabeth that "the other one" was an EST sex focused seminar. 

Edited by Umbelina
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Henry! And he gave me a strong Matthew vibe, no wonder Stan likes him, even giving him Matthew's unused cologne.

The Camaro! They still have it.

Death. Poor security guard. That was awful to watch. Is Philip losing his killing instinct? The way Arkady broke the news to Oleg compared to how Gabriel told Elizabeth.

Another innocent harmed: Nina's husband. Does she really think they'll do nothing to him just because she said he was innocent, that it wasn't like smuggling from a jail? Nice that Nina is recovering her soul and doesn't care if she pays a high price, but at what cost to Boris?

What did it mean that Philip met William without a disguise? Is he being sloppy? I laughed at how he basically told Gabriel, "YOU get rid of it!"

Ok, Show, I love you but as a DC resident your weird not-DC locations are buggin' me and the fact that it's March in the timeline but there are autumn leaves on the trees... sheesh.

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I would have liked to see the scene where Elizabeth told Gabriel that Paige had spilled their secrets to Pastor Tim.  I thought she was going to do that when she met him on the bench.  Did I miss it?

 

Philip looked beat.  And that was before the horrific scene on the bus. Philip has nerves of steel, but he's on the edge.

 

Henry and Stan are hilarious.  But no, don't give him more cologne!  Ralph Lauren Polo...I remember that cologne.  It was very popular for a while in the 80's, and you'd smell it everywhere.  My high school art teacher wore it all the time. 

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Another little hint that the mom Elizabeth met in Germany might not be her real mom.  "She said that?"

 

I wonder if she's dead at all, or has been dead for years, because for many reasons, I don't think that was her real mom.

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William's a real charmer, hard to believe he hasn't made a lot of friends at work.

 

William is not just an asset but an illegal, right? I assume part of the reason he has such a weird affect is that, like Elizabeth, he's never fully assimilated culturally.

 

Gabriel mentioned last episode that William "had a partner, but it didn't work out." I wonder if he and Claudia were originally a Directorate S team.

 

How did Nina not realize she was killing her husband with that stunt?  She honestly thought they weren't bugged, that every moment wasn't being watched?

 

I thought the indication was that the husband wasn't watched or searched. According to Vasili, the note got all the way to the smuggler, who then turned it in to the authorities.

 

Anyway, fantastic episode. The season premiere felt like it was scrambling a bit to get some of its pieces in place, but this one was a well-oiled machine all the way through. I love that they continue to use this horrible biotoxin as a metaphor for the poisonous truths at the center of the Jenningses' lives. It's interesting that the central point of the last episode seemed to be that these truths are especially dangerous because they're secret -- as symbolized by the final scene, in which the various things Stan doesn't know almost infects them all with glanders -- but this episode suggests that being open and honest might not be any safer for them, as Philip's pilot friend confronts the brutal reality of the espionage game he's mixed up in and decides, "Fuck that, I'm outta here."

Edited by Dev F
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Elizabeth's nightmare made my heart stop for a second -- yikes!

Another little hint that the mom Elizabeth met in Germany might not be her real mom. "She said that?"

I wonder if she's dead at all, or has been dead for years, because for many reasons, I don't think that was her real mom.

Umbelina, I was ready to say, "You were right!" and I still might have to... Edited by RedHawk
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It could simply mean that Elizabeth hadn't dared to hope her stoic mother would send a message like that, that's all.

 

I wonder how Stan could know about Oleg's brother. Were they (and "they" would have to be the CIA, not the FBI) watching him in Afghanistan because they were hoping to get some leverage on Oleg?

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Can someone refresh my memory? What happened to the teenaged girl that Philip was working last year. That storyline wasn't resolved, right?

Philip should still be seeing Kimmie once a week to get the tapes out of her dad's briefcase. Remember, events in this episode and last week's take place just a few days after the events in last season's finale (which was "March 8, 1983"). We'll see Kimmie again, I'm sure.

Edited by RedHawk
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Yeah, it could mean a lot of things, I just never  bought that it was really her mother they smuggled in. 

 

Hopefully we'll find out.  If Gabriel lied to her about that though, it might be something that would finally break her commitment to him and the cause.

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It could simply mean that Elizabeth hadn't dared to hope her stoic mother would send a message like that, that's all.

 

 

Yes, I assumed she said that because she figured he was lying and saying it to comfort her. I don't think she believed her mother said that.

Although Umbelina's idea is enticing . 

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William is not just an asset but an illegal, right? I assume part of the reason he has such a weird affect is that, like Elizabeth, he's never fully assimilated culturally.

 

I thought he was very interesting.  I'm pretty sure he's an illegal, but his attitude is because he's a scientist and he fully realizes the danger of what he's being asked to do as a spy.  He thinks his bosses are idiots for messing around with biotoxins, and transporting them around in Sucrets boxes.  It seemed he thought the KGB were completely insane for wanting to get into the Level 4 biotoxins which could probably easily wipe out humanity.

 

I think he's very much like Philip right now - they are both sick of what they are doing and aren't buying into the cause anymore.  They'd probably have a lot in common if they could go grab a beer together.

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Elizabeth, your mother died. We had someone with her. She wasn't alone. She spoke of you and Paige, wanted to send a message that she loved you.

Did she?

What do you mean?

Did she really say that?

Of course she did! Elizabeth, when you do what we do, it's very easy to lose your bearings. I don't want that to happen to you.

 

Here's the whole quote from the great recap.  Thanks Tara! 

http://previously.tv/the-americans/philips-kill-list-keeps-getting-longer-on-the-americans/

 

Also from the recap, SO THAT is who the guy was!

Very interesting!  Maybe we really will get a family on the run story out of all of this when the Evil Empire crumples.

 

 

Paige comes home to find Elizabeth in the kitchen, anxiously calling around trying to locate Philip; Paige can tell Elizabeth's upset. On top of the loss of her mother, Elizabeth also had a nightmare in which Paige discovers Pastor Tim's corpse, which then turns into Timoshev, Elizabeth's rapist, alive and attacking Paige, which can't help Elizabeth's state of mind much either.

 

Just wow at Elizabeth seeing her daughter with her rapist, maybe she's finally having second thoughts (or at least dreams) that are making her doubt how great it will all be when her daughter joins them spying for Mother Russia!

 

That was  H  U  G   E

Edited by Umbelina
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Can someone refresh my memory? What happened to the teenaged girl that Philip was working last year. That storyline wasn't resolved, right?

 

 

Still working her. Seeing her once a week off-screen.

 

Philip not telling Elizabeth that "the other one" was an EST sex focused seminar.

 

 

Weirdly, in his case, it probably doesn't really matter and wouldn't mean much to her.

 

Is Philip losing his killing instinct?

 

 

Not in this ep, since he killed that guy without the rest of the bus even knowing.

 

What did it mean that Philip met William without a disguise? Is he being sloppy?

 

 

I don't think so. William's another Illegal and he's not in disguise.

 

Another little hint that the mom Elizabeth met in Germany might not be her real mom.  "She said that?"

 

 

I think it was more of a hint that Gabriel's version of her mother's death might not have been real--presumably the woman in Germany didn't gush that way. Which seemed important to me. I think that's the first time Elizabeth's ever doubted him to his face and rejected that kind of manipulation. Gabriel must be worried Philip is rubbing off on her. She's doubting her mother in her own way too, but it doesn't matter if that was her or not. That’s not the kind of betrayal she’s suffered from.

 

Interesting too that not only are Philip and Elizabeth hiding the deadly nature of what they do, they’re shielding her from the deadly nature of what she’s done. I know Paige is right about all this being about Philip and Elizabeth putting her in that position, but there is something frustrating (presumably by design) about this teenager still seeing the whole thing in terms of what her parents should or should not give her as a responsibility when the actual fact is that she’s quite possibly ending their lives and talking about it like it’s, well, far less bad than that. Maybe especially because we know that this kind of attitude is so foreign to these two. When they were Paige’s age there was literally nobody protecting them from this responsibility and more.

 

It’s no wonder that more and more the two of them seem like the two people who share the deepest trust because they just don’t have anybody else in their situation.

I wonder if Pastor Tim is waiting for her parents to confront him so he can be more threatening—I mean, in terms of saying look, if you don’t stop it I’m telling/telling your daughter or something.

 

So how many men are pining over Nina now? Stan and Oleg, now we know her husband is still in love with her and his wife, like so many women, is a poor substitute. Anton’s well on his way to seeing her as his angel. Vasily’s in prison because he fell for her (though that one’s totally on Vasily.) Yup, that’s Nina!

 

Oh, and I do want Philip and Elizabeth kind of have better EST sessions on their own. It was sweet of Elizabeth to offer to go with him just as a way of showing approval—and I think also out of a real fear of getting left behind, of Philip going just about anywhere she can’t follow—but I like to think that even that one confession of Philip’s about the murder, and his explanation that at EST this is the sort of thing that comes up and you have to think about, was somewhat connected to her own nightmare. In that dream she was basically telling herself that killing Pastor Tim as tied to the way she was thrown to Timoshev—by her mother and the Centre. She would have wanted to be able to speak to her mother the way Paige speaks to her, and doesn’t want to hurt her the way she was hurt.

 

I really hope she shares those sorts of things with Philip. This is really the gold on this show.

Edited by sistermagpie
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Yes, I assumed she said that because she figured he was lying and saying it to comfort her. I don't think she believed her mother said that.

Although Umbelina's idea is enticing . 

I dismissed Umbelina's idea before I saw the way they did the scene tonight. It really does make you wonder. Everything could be interpreted just as they are saying it, or that Gabriel is lying to make her feel better, or that she is basically calling him out and not quite saying, "Did they really think I'd believe that woman was my mother?" Intriguing.

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Not in this ep, since he killed that guy without the rest of the bus even knowing.Is Philip losing his killing instinct?

 

 

Not in this ep, since he killed that guy without the rest of the bus even knowing.

 

I asked because it took so long for Philip to finish him off. Yes, it was because it was really difficult to choke the guy, and he couldn't do much else because it would attract attention. But I also saw a lack of murderous intent in Philip's eyes. Then he was so deeply affected by it afterward, especially when he realized that the poor guy just doing his job had died for nothing since the pilot refused to take the box after all.

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I posted this last year, your post listing all the men intrigued with Nina reminded me of it.  It's really telling or odd or something to me, how very much she looks like the famous spy Mata Hari, who was also probably coerced into it.

 

mata-hari-18.jpg

 

 

amreicans-624-1394557800.jpg

 

There are other photos that show it more, but oh well.  Yes, I know it's not that unusual a look, but still, it struck me.

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Everything could be interpreted just as they are saying it, or that Gabriel is lying to make her feel better, or that she is basically calling him out and not quite saying, "Did they really think I'd believe that woman was my mother?" Intriguing.

 

 

Sure, but...what are the stakes if it wasn't? I mean, we have no dramatic stake in whether that actress was really playing Elizabeth’s mother. Elizabeth isn’t going to see her again. It’s really mostly important only if Gabriel later decides to change the story and say that her mother’s alive and they’ll hurt her if Elizabeth doesn’t do what they say. Which they could totally do. But Elizabeth’s pretty much stuck either not thinking that woman was her mother—in which case the entire trip to Germany is robbed of emotional content—or believing it because she has to (or because she is actually able to recognize her mother).

 

I mean, I can’t see there being a mystery about whether or not that was Elizabeth’s mother. There’s not likely going to be a rescue in Russia.  They already have the “maybe you have a family member to protect” with Mischa Jr. and if her mother wasn’t actually dying why would they have said she was anyway, since that loses them their hostage?

 

I think Elizabeth’s mother is part of the past and is only important for how Elizabeth remembers her, which was kick-started by the visit and her death anyway. Any doubts Elizabeth might have about whether she really met again in Germany are more about Elizabeth than the objective facts, imo.

 

But I also saw a lack of murderous intent in Philip's eyes. Then he was so deeply affected by it afterward, especially when he realized that the poor guy just doing his job had died for nothing since the pilot refused to take the box after all.

 

 

I think that part he lost a while ago!

Edited by sistermagpie
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As I said above though, the "stakes" are, Elizabeth adores Gabriel, and if she suspects he's playing her, and most of all, played her at THAT?  More reason to bag the spy game altogether, and perhaps to understand it's all lies, and Philip is right about dear old Gabe.

 

Maybe her suspicions are connected with the dream she had of Paige being tackled by the very man Center had rape her, while she was Paige's age, and in training.

 

Could Elizabeth join Philip in thinking Russia and their lives, and what they are doing with them perhaps needs a bit more thought?

 

That makes fake-mom much more important for the story, if this supposition is correct.  I could easily be wrong, but those scenes with the mother always struck me as very, very off.

Edited by Umbelina
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I was confused by the pilot...an American working for the Russians? I don't think Aeroflot had any landing rights in the US at the time, though I could be wrong.

And boy did he look like an unreliable guy...nervous and unwilling.  And Philip let him walk away alive? There's a surprise.

 

Elizabeth has one cold heart..there is a part of her that wants to take Paige out...every instinct says her daughter is a direct threat to her, to Philip and to her cause...and her mothering instincts are barely restraining that urge. She must hope that by killing Pastor Tim, she can kill the not only the threat to her and her family, but recapture her daughter, to have her acknowledge the rightness of the work she and Philip have been doing. Pretty thin hope, especially with Philip more involved with EST than she ever imagined. With two family members wobbling, no wonder she has no time for Henry.

 

And her dead mother? Loved how she dropped that on Paige, who awkwardly moved towards Elizabeth in a semblance of sympathy, both of them acting out what might happen if there were real emotion involved. And, minutes later, bereft Elizabeth's gotta go...work calls, dead mother be damned. That dream of Elizabeth is the first indication that she has an interior life. We know she has an animating principle, the cause, but real emotion, authentic feelings, even straightforward love for her daughter...nope, everything is filtered through the prism of the cause. She is a deeply isolated human. And Gabriel, stroking her hand...beyond creepy.

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As I said above though, the "stakes" are, Elizabeth adores Gabriel, and if she suspects he's playing her, and most of all, played her at THAT?  More reason to bag the spy game altogether, and perhaps to understand it's all lies, and Philip is right about dear old Gabe.

 

Of course, that's also why I don't think Gabriel and the Center would ever do that, because it's the sort of overly complicated gambit that has a potential downside wildly out of proportion to any potential upside. If they didn't want to show Elizabeth her real mother for whatever reason, they could just say, "Sorry, you didn't get here in time; she died this morning." It's not like they were reluctant to reveal her death for some reason; they ended up doing just that a few days later.

 

And under this plan, when would they have made the switch between real mom and fake mom? Because Elizabeth's mom talked about her illness on the tapes the Center sent to Elizabeth. Was that fake mom, too? If so, when would they have changed who was doing the recordings? It seems like Elizabeth has been getting the tapes all along, so you'd think she would've noticed if her mom's voice suddenly changed and she stopped talking about things that only real mom would know. (And it's not like she was talking to her mother on the telephone or something similarly ephemeral that would be hard to verify; she would have the old tapes to compare to the new ones.)

 

And, on the other hand, if the woman on the tapes was always real mom, why would they need to bring a fake mom into things for the real-life meeting? They could just show Elizabeth her real mom dying of cancer and not risk her noticing that her mom's voice had suddenly changed from the recent tapes she'd just been listening to.

 

I dunno, this all sounds like the sort of convoluted, intrigue for intrigue's sake revelation that the series usually takes great care to avoid.

Edited by Dev F
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Man I must be miswired or something because I actually left this episode feeling kind of heartwarmed. Not the horrific murder and bioweapons stuff, but the family storyline. I feel like these people have finally managed to fuck things up so hard it's actually turned the corner and started coming back better. Like, to me this feels like the moment where, if they can just sort through their problems, this family just might make it -- both the parents' marriage and their relationship with their kids.

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There could be any number of reasons they used a fake mom, including the real mom being in trouble in Russia, or suspected of something.  As for the tapes?  I don't know how long she was getting them, or how often, or what the quality was, but yes, that could have been faked too.  Maybe she missed religion or became disenchanted with the communist dream because there was never any food, or she slipped and fell cracking her head open years ago, and died, but they didn't want Elizabeth to ask to come to her funeral,.  The tapes could have been made before she was tortured to death for all I know, and doled out over the years, in case they ever needed a threat to keep Elizabeth in line. 

 

As for why bring in a fake mom IF her real mom was alive, lots of possible plausible reasons, including the real mom being in a Gulag somewhere, or that they didn't feel she was trustworthy enough to speak with their primo embedded spy, etc.  It could have been as simple as wanting Elizabeth to get back to the USA ASAP, or there were border issues at the moment, so they used a Russian speaking/ancestry West German woman loyal to them, so they wouldn't have to risk bringing a Russian over.

 

It just all smelled wrong to me.  I feel that the actress also played Elizabeth as if it wasn't her mother, but yeah, it could be bad acting.  Still, Gabriel's vague threat to her at the end of that conversation also didn't sit well with me. 

 

As far as Center not wanting an overly complicated gambit, I agree Dev!  That could be why they refused to let her go.  She would have never been there if Philip didn't arrange it.

Edited by Umbelina
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Oh, Nina. Why?

 

I did feel a little bit bad for Stan when he offered condolences on the other guy's brother being killed in combat and the only response he got was, "So we're friends now?" You don't have to be friends in order to feel bad that someone's family member died, dude!

 

I can't decide if Gabriel said Elizabeth's mother said she loved Elizabeth and Paige out of kindness (as we have seen in countless tv shows and movies, people will lie and say things like, "His last words were about you," or "She wasn't in any pain" in an effort to make the survivors feel a little less worse) or if he is just manipulating her as her handler.

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I agree that Elizabeth saw her real mother (it would have been too risky for them to try to provide an impersonator in Germany), but the question about her mother's death, and what her mother said, was very poignant and aggressive at the same time.  Poignant because Elizabeth knows she will never know really how her mother died, alone, or sending a message; and aggressive because she essentially told Gabriel that she does not trust him. 

 

I thought that was actually Stan's son at first, not Henry!  And I wonder if the KGB bought the computer at Radio Shack or if it is a special Russian model?  I thought Stan might discover something on the computer when Henry invited him over.  There were not a lot of computers in homes in 1983-84. 

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There were a fair number of home computers in 1983-84.  My first computer was an Apple IIe that my parents gave me for Christmas 1982.  A number of my friends also had home computers, including the Apple II/II+/IIe, Commodore 64, and the IBM PC.
 

 

I thought that was actually Stan's son at first, not Henry!  And I wonder if the KGB bought the computer at Radio Shack or if it is a special Russian model?  I thought Stan might discover something on the computer when Henry invited him over.  There were not a lot of computers in homes in 1983-84. 

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Oh, yeah, tractor feed paper!  And Henry would have needed a printer, because the computer was not linked to anything!  (Even though Al Gore had already invented the Internet, the modem access was awful...) 

1-04140-00_WhiteFanfoldPapr19H.jpg

Edited by jjj
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Way to get that guy killed, chicken-shit courier pilot.

 

Once again the song choices are golden. "Tainted Love" was excellent for the scene.

 

Glad to see Henry is only at the age equivalent of squeaky voiced Peter Brady in season 4 of the Brady Bunch with just a few hairs above the upper lip. I was scared he'd be deep voiced and ready for college by this time.

 

"Make up with your boyfriend yet?" I love when Elizabeth is snarky.

 

Nina, Nina, Nina, your heart was in the right place, but it was a dumb move.

Edited by VCRTracking
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