S01.E04: Episode 4

[Glade]

Quote

Ivy is arrested and questioned about the body discovered at Colbridge Road. She goes into shutdown and it's up to Christina to set Ivy free from the guilt that burdens her.

 

 

[Glade]

For the first half of this episode, I began to wish that mark white would kill both of the detectives harassing Ivy before the end of the series.   But they did finally start to soften their stance once they saw Ivy breakdown and tell the horrific truth to her mother.  Being brainwashed to think it was her fault that Dylan died because she tried to escape was clearly strong enough to keep her imprisoned even after she escaped.

[wayne67]

For the first half of this episode, I began to wish that mark white would kill both of the detectives harassing Ivy before the end of the series.   But they did finally start to soften their stance once they saw Ivy breakdown and tell the horrific truth to her mother.  Being brainwashed to think it was her fault that Dylan died because she tried to escape was clearly strong enough to keep her imprisoned even after she escaped.

 

Even though there's no indication that her story is true ? 

 

She could have killed Dylan in an attempt to break free and has concocted this story to avoid murder charges. It's not like she hasn't lied before.

 

The Detectives are asking questions because that's their job and there's a little girl missing in the hands of a captor they know little about because Ivy has been with holding information the entire time they've been asking her questions. 

Edited March 21, 2016 by wayne67

[Glade]

No, actually, when MW called on the phone, he described Dylan's corpse as being "their secret," corroborating what Ivy said. There is every indication that Ivy is telling the truth, and actually she has not been "lying the whole time."  She was too afraid, traumatized, and ashamed to bring up Dylan at first, which is normal, natural, and understandable.  Kidnapped children who aren't ready to unload every horrific moment of their captivity to an arrogant, aggressive cop the day after their release are not "liars."  

 

Particularly the female detective has been a real asshole to Ivy from the very beginning, accusing a 13 year old of willingly going off with a pedophile kidnapper and treating her like a suspect when she was kidnapped, beaten and raped for thirteen years.  Her self-righteous attitude is NOT a part of her job, it's a part of her personality.  There should have been protocols in place to protect Ivy given her obvious, acute C-PTSD from interrogations that would trigger her. 

 

She was badly in need of legal and therapeutic assistance, not to have cops slamming on tables and screaming in her face.  When you understand how someone's brain works with complex post traumatic stress disorder, you don't use words like "lying" and "withholding information" to describe their actions.  Notably, it was her mothers kind, loving acceptance that got Ivy to open up, not the aggression of the detectives.  If you think you'd do better after what Ivy has gone through, then by all means...

Edited March 22, 2016 by Glade

[wayne67]

No, actually, when MW called on the phone, he described Dylan's corpse as being "their secret," corroborating what Ivy said. There is every indication that Ivy is telling the truth, and actually she has not been "lying the whole time."  She was too afraid, traumatized, and ashamed to bring up Dylan at first, which is normal, natural, and understandable.  Kidnapped children who aren't ready to unload every horrific moment of their captivity to an arrogant, aggressive cop the day after their release are not "liars."  

 

Particularly the female detective has been a real asshole to Ivy from the very beginning, accusing a 13 year old of willingly going off with a pedophile kidnapper and treating her like a suspect when she was kidnapped, beaten and raped for thirteen years.  Her self-righteous attitude is NOT a part of her job, it's a part of her personality.  There should have been protocols in place to protect Ivy given her obvious, acute C-PTSD from interrogations that would trigger her. 

 

She was badly in need of legal and therapeutic assistance, not to have cops slamming on tables and screaming in her face.  When you understand how someone's brain works with complex post traumatic stress disorder, you don't use words like "lying" and "withholding information" to describe their actions.  Notably, it was her mothers kind, loving acceptance that got Ivy to open up, not the aggression of the detectives.  If you think you'd do better after what Ivy has gone through, then by all means...

 

When asked about Dylan she said she didn't know him. That was a lie. Hence she was lying.

 

When asked about whether she had ever been let out of the house. She said she hadn't. That was also a lie.

 

When asked about why she didn't run away when found about to be lying about the above. She never answered.

 

She was offered a lawyer after being arrested. She declined.

 

We haven't had much in the way of testimony that she was beaten or raped. She had some bruises upon her initial examination but she's never said she was beaten or raped.

 

In every piece of testimony she's provided, she either lied or withheld vital details that could have helped with another kidnapping case. Being allowed out, there being a second accomplice/kidnapper, knowing about a brother.

 

Apparently she was kept for 3 years before they even had sex. So it's hard to tell at this point how much psychological or physical conditioning she was subjected to before it was 'proper'. 

[ichbin]

We haven't had much in the way of testimony that she was beaten or raped. She had some bruises upon her initial examination but she's never said she was beaten or raped.

 

It seems like the scene of Ivy sitting the the bathtub could have been included in order to point that out that she had significant bruising on her back so I'm guessing that those bruises are going to factor in the conclusion in some way.

 

I'm wondering if the headmaster is going to figure in the kidnapping in some way or if he is just there for Ivy's mother to have a back story. 

 

I knew the photo of the actor playing Mark White looked familiar...he's the father in Moone Boy...that's one heck of a different role! 

 

Eager to see where the story goes in the next episode. 

[formerlyfreedom]

This episode is scheduled to air in the US on Thursday, July 14, on BBC America.

[rur]

Heads up: My cable provider's schedule has this episode airing at 6:00 p.m. EDT  Thursday July 14, and Episode 5 at 6:00 p.m. the following week. Fans might want to check their local cable guides or reprogram their DVRs.

Edited July 14, 2016 by rur

[Ms Lark]

Yep, same for mine (Comcast). Looks like a BBCA decision to burn it off at 6 p.m. while running STNG reruns during primetime. That could be due to interest in the new ST movie opening on the 22nd or the ratings are just that bad. Or both. Fine, fewer viewing conflicts on a Thursday night!

[Primetimer]

But whose skeleton is it? Kim Reed counts down the people around Ivy according to how much they're actually helping her.

View the full article

[Valny]

7 hours ago, Ms Lark said:

Yep, same for mine (Comcast). Looks like a BBCA decision to burn it off at 6 p.m. while running STNG reruns during primetime. That could be due to interest in the new ST movie opening on the 22nd or the ratings are just that bad. Or both. Fine, fewer viewing conflicts on a Thursday night!

OH CRAP! I haven't been at this forum for a while so I missed the heads up. They're showing the friggin' Kill Bill movies on my cable instead. Really BBCA? Just two eps left and I can't even watch when I planned?!.(I have no life!). And it's not even on later in the AM.  Oh well, it's not like I don't have tons of other stuff to watch/catch up on... but I was looking forward to it just because we're in the home stretch and I want answers!! 

I guess it's watching it On Demand for me.

[Kip Hackman]

50 minutes ago, Valny said:

 Really BBCA? Just two eps left and I can't even watch when I planned?!.(I have no life!). And it's not even on later in the AM. 

Freaking ridiculous.

[Moxie Cat]

Yup, missed it! Went to set it at 9 PM EST, came to this board, saw the notice. I was not home at 6 PM! Thanks a lot, BBCA. This is one reason why I haven't been watching any new shows on BBCA for a very long while. Seriously - they couldn't have made space for TWO freaking episodes to air at the normal times for those of us who are watching this to the end?!?

ETA: I have DirecTV - just went to BBCA On Demand. Episode 4 isn't even available yet. So I can't even watch it tonight.  

Edited July 15, 2016 by Moxie Cat

[frogprof]

19 hours ago, Moxie Cat said:

ETA: I have DirecTV - just went to BBCA On Demand. Episode 4 isn't even available yet. So I can't even watch it tonight.

I was able to watch the first two episodes on BBCAmerica's website, but that was after I'd discovered the show three eps in. Try there, anyway ... good luck!

[KaveDweller]

23 hours ago, Valny said:

OH CRAP! I haven't been at this forum for a while so I missed the heads up. They're showing the friggin' Kill Bill movies on my cable instead. Really BBCA? Just two eps left and I can't even watch when I planned?!.(I have no life!). And it's not even on later in the AM.  Oh well, it's not like I don't have tons of other stuff to watch/catch up on... but I was looking forward to it just because we're in the home stretch and I want answers!! 

I guess it's watching it On Demand for me.

Yeah, I tuned in and got Kill Bill too. I managed to watch for free on BBCAs ipad app though.

I can't believe there's only one episode left, I feel like there's so much they could be exploring.

In England do they really tell suspects they don't have to talk but not talking will be held against them in court? I didn't know that, it's quite different than here.

Ivy really needs therapy, and I can't believe the cops aren't considering her mental state and how 13 years of captivity screws with a person. She lied so that automatically makes her a terrible murderer? They don't understand she may be scared or have some kind of Stockholm Syndrome?

[kat165]

I am shocked that I didn't recognize Liam Moone whenever they showed Mark White. I still find it hard to believe and may have to re-watch the last ep again to confirm although I don't remember if we get to see him, maybe in just a photo.

I'm very pissed at BBCA for switiching the times. I found out way past 6pm, too late to watch. What a shitty thing to do to their viewers, like a slap in the face. Makes me much more reluctant to watch anything further on BBCA.

[meep.meep]

Quote

 

I was a victim of the time switch too.  By Friday night the episode was available on-demand.  And it could be worse - BBCA never aired the final episodes of Tantau (which starred the guy who is playing Emma's boyfriend).

I'm sorry,  but if Mark was banging his brother's head on the floor, then some of his DNA would be present.  It wouldn't just be Ivy's.

Tim comes off as a dim bulb but his wife seems like the most insensitive person ever. 

[Margherita Erdman]

BBCA scheduling shenanigans aside, it seemed to me this episode actually lost momentum in its storytelling just when it should be sprinting to the finish line.

The more time spent with the police, the more lifeless it is (no pun intended). The series isn't built around some complex whodunit or serial killer profile (unless I'm failing to anticipate some big twist at the end), so the procedural aspect isn't where the interest lies for me (plus I find the police characters both incompetent and unlikeable). 

IMO the show is at its best as a subtle psychological drama about this escaped captive girl and her attempts to reclaim her identity, to reunite with her family and the world outside while staying strong enough not to collapse from the terror of her abductor who is still out there and obsessed with her...

Watching Thirteen has made me think a lot about Jaycee Dugard and Elizabeth Smart and what exceptionally strong, amazing women they have turned out to be. I admire them so much for reclaiming their lives and refusing to allow themselves to be portrayed as victims for ever and ever.

[Valny]

Looks like most of us were messed up last week.  Well as far as I know, the final ep is going to be on it's usual time so no  friggin' crazy switcheroo time slot. At least you better not pull that again BBCA!

  Luckily that ep was there on Demand the next day, although I looked for it that night hoping for a miracle.

 

Did I remember correctly, Tim came to the realization that that he loves Ivy now?

[rur]

Valny, check your listings. I think the final episode is on at 6:00. 

And Episode 5 has already been removed from On Demand on my cable provider (Brighthouse, or whoever it was that bought them out)

[Moxie Cat]

My system shows episode 5 at 6 PM on Thursday, July 21.

DirecTv's BBCA On Demand STILL has not added Episode 4 - almost a week later. Pathetic. We only have eps 1-3. So I will record Ep 5 and sometime maybe watch Ep 4 so I can watch #5. I know I can possibly watch it on the website, but I'm a little annoyed about that - I pay DirecTV to watch shows on my TV. If it was my fault for missing the episode, that's one thing, but BBCA is to blame here. This was the first "new" show I had watched on their channel in a long time, and after this, I doubt there will be another. (Anyone remember the glory days of BBCA, a decade or so ago, when they ran a bunch of current dramas and not Star Trek all the time? It did happen!)

Well - I liked Thirteen while it lasted. Glad for the intro to Rankin before his Outlander debut.

[Valny]

On ‎7‎/‎20‎/‎2016 at 3:36 PM, rur said:

Valny, check your listings. I think the final episode is on at 6:00. 

And Episode 5 has already been removed from On Demand on my cable provider (Brighthouse, or whoever it was that bought them out)

Rur. -    Damn I was too late again coming over here, but thanks anyway. I should have turned on the "notify me of replies." Then I wouldn't have missed your heads up.  Stupid me and FU BBCA for not keeping your supposed regular time slot the same as the first three eps! grrrr...aaargh.

[rur]

Don't feel too bad. It was a rather low-key conclusion. 

[RachelKM]

These are the worst cops I've ever seen.  4 episodes in, and their questioning guarantees they will result in ambiguous answers, if any answer at all by virtue asking questions in rapid succession.   If she answered at all, it would be hard to know which question she was answering.  They regularly jump to ludicrous conclusions.  It's like they've never even watch a freaking crime show about abductees.  Ugh.

The death of the brother was about what I expected it to be and an obvious reason for her refusal to talk about. And, of course, the second Ivy explains, Elliot does another about face regarding her.  I'm about done with him and his back and forth with Ivy.  He's way too emotional and is either defending her irrationally or accusing her irrationally.  Ivy finally seemed to shut some of his shit down though with her "You're not my friend. You're not my family."  

I understand poor dim Tim.  As someone said in an earlier thread, he never actually fell out of loving her (in his puppy love fashion).  She disappeared and he put it away and got over it.  He packed it all away in a box and grew up.  Ivy returning was like opening a time capsule and sifting through is preserved feelings. But Eloise was right, it's not still love, it's nostalgia. And Ivy was right.  They don't know each other any more. I feel for his wife.  She's being unfair, but so is he.  It is/was (it seems to be over) a crappy situation and it/was neither of their faults. 

I felt so bad for the headmaster and his flowers.....I'm glad glad Christina told the truth about him and herself and it was a nice moment.  But there's something overly pat if the Moxams end up back together.

The sisters are still my favorite relationship on this show, even if it was strained this episode. 

Edited July 25, 2016 by RachelKM

[rur]

4 hours ago, RachelKM said:

These are the worst cops I've ever seen.  4 episodes in, and their questioning guarantees they will result in ambiguous answers, in any answer at all by virtue asking questions in rapid succession.   If she answered at all, it would be hard to know which question she was answering.  They regularly jump to ludicrous conclusions.  I

This made me slightly nuts, too. In one of the early episodes, Ivy said something like, "We weren't allowed…" None of the police ever picked up on her using the plural and questioned her about it. I kept waiting for someone to come back to it because I couldn't believe a whole force could be so inept.