Season 5 (A & B) Discussion

[ghoulina]

For me, I couldn't stand Jesse in the beginning, but I think he was my favorite in the end - followed closely by Hank. 

"Bitch" was overused, though, for sure. But....I can't help but love that scene when he tries to light up after getting released from the hospital and he's told he can't smoke there; he needs to be another 20 feet from the door. "Roll me further, bitch". I can't help it. I die laughing every time. 

[ByTor]

The one "bitch" thing I laugh at is (paraphrasing) "this is my private domicile...bitch"

[mattie0808]

I'm all about "YEAH, BITCH! MAGNETS! OH!" Lol

It's Aaron's first choice too. ;) (And he got "private domicile" in there!) Hahahaha.

Edited January 8, 2017 by mattie0808

[Christina]

It may not have all started after this, but the first time I noticed people threatening Anna Gunn was after she released that statement that said those of us who didn't like her character was because we were misogynistic, and not because we found her character to have annoying characteristics. Anna Gunn, the real live person, acted the hell out of that character, who I didn't like from the blow job and never really warmed up to until the very end, when she met with Walt to allow him to say his piece, even though she was under no obligation to ever look at him again. It was an act of humanity to a man she once loved. 

Some of the hate thrown toward Anna Gunn was terrible. It is inexcusable and I don't blame her for getting pissed about it. I didn't notice any of it directed toward her personally until after the statement she made, but if it was before, that was wrong, too. Some of us just didn't like her character. A lot of us didn't like Marie, but I don't remember Betsy Brandt getting on a high horse about people not liking her character. 

[ByTor]

8 hours ago, Christina said:

Some of the hate thrown toward Anna Gunn was terrible. It is inexcusable and I don't blame her for getting pissed about it. I didn't notice any of it directed toward her personally until after the statement she made, but if it was before, that was wrong, too.

I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure she released the statement specifically because of the threats she was getting, which is horrible.  However, I do have an issue with her insistence that disliking her character is "misogynistic".  I'm a woman, I certainly don't hate myself or other women, but I couldn't stand Skylar.  I do believe that her character was written as a know-it-all, passive aggressive, and mean spirited, and I do believe she was written that way to elicit sympathy for Walt.  However, as I've said many times about her, just because Walt is a terrible person, it doesn't mean Skylar isn't terrible because Walt is worse (well, much worse) than she is.  I began disliking her when she was caught smoking while pregnant with Holly & somehow managed to turn it around as though she were the victim.

Edited January 8, 2017 by ByTor

[qtpye]

On 1/6/2017 at 2:45 PM, ghoulina said:

LOL, yea, it was totally awkward. But I thought it was to make a point about Walt's life in general, just how lame uneventful it was. He can't even get legit sex on his birthday! No wonder the drug making world appeals to him so much. I'm not saying *I* would see it that way. Some of us are perfectly happy with a "boring" life. Walt was playing the part, but it really wasn't good enough for him. 

This is something I am legitimately asking all the intelligent people who comment on this board.

Do you think Walt would have Broken Bad, if he had the upper middle class life he thought he deserved?

I mean, Walt's life was not just lame and boring.  To a guy that had all the potential in the world, it must have seemed much more pathetic then dying.

If Walt had done well at Sandia Labs and they moved out of the starter home to bigger and better things...would he still have made the same choices?  He would not be Gretchen and Elliot successful, but would probably have a nice life by regular people standards.  ( I think the 95th percentile of income is 250K or more and he could have been earning that).

The reason I ask, is that if he would have never made meth, because he had no money problems and a pretty nice life, then does that refute the "he was Heisenberg all along theory"?

[ghoulina]

Good question. Walt clearly came from a middle class background, and I do think money was an issue for him. I believe that's why he left Gretchen and, consequently, Grey Matters. He came home to meet the family and was shocked with their wealth. He couldn't handle it. I think Walt was one of those people who was equally arrogant and struggled with inadequacy at the same time. We don't really know what ever happened with Sandia (and I think another place was mentioned as well), but being a teacher makes sense - he's the clear superior there. 

But I don't think being a meth cook is the only way to become Heisenberg. If he'd had a different life, it might have still come out in other ways. I think a lot of Walt's issue was that deep down he hated himself for never being good enough, but he also harbored a lot of bitterness towards others for not giving him his due. He was really a very conflicted man. 

[ByTor]

38 minutes ago, qtpye said:

Do you think Walt would have Broken Bad, if he had the upper middle class life he thought he deserved?

Had he stayed with Gray Matter, he would have been much better off than upper middle class, but that doesn't exactly help me in answering your question :)  If I'm remembering correctly, Hank was teasing Walt at his birthday party, which prompted Walt to ask to do the ride-along, which I thought prompted Walt to think "Hey, not only can I do that, but I bet I can do it better!"  The reason Hank's teasing got to him was IMO because of Walt's insecurity.  Now, the question is, why was Walt insecure?  Was is because he is just a garden variety insecure person?  Was he insecure because of his career choice, and thus his earnings? Was he insecure because he was basically powerless in both his teaching job & his marriage?  Would he have had the power he seemed to love if he stayed with Gray Matter (probably not because it would have been a 3-way partnership)? Did he leave Gray Matter not because he needed the cash but because he was afraid that whatever it was that he worked on would fail, and he couldn't handle being a failure?  

Just my opinion, but if Walt stayed with Gray Matter and had Gretchen/Elliot levels of money, I'm not so sure going into the meth business would have even occurred to him.  But, by the same token, I think he loved to prove that he wasn't the milquetoast guy everybody thought he was.  So maybe he would have gone "bad" in some other manner, but I'm not so sure it would have anything to do with illegal drugs.

[qtpye]

If you have an ego like Walt's, it must have been a living hell for him.  Not only did he fall short of every expectation for himself (no good salary, prestige, or acclaim), his partners had the nerve to be amazingly successful without him.

I think the success of Gray Matter would of ate him up, but he would not have broke bad had he at least modest success.  We can guess his lack of any type of position worthy was due to him being an egomaniac and being bad with people.

[Uncle JUICE]

17 hours ago, qtpye said:

This is something I am legitimately asking all the intelligent people who comment on this board.

Do you think Walt would have Broken Bad, if he had the upper middle class life he thought he deserved?

I mean, Walt's life was not just lame and boring.  To a guy that had all the potential in the world, it must have seemed much more pathetic then dying.

If Walt had done well at Sandia Labs and they moved out of the starter home to bigger and better things...would he still have made the same choices?  He would not be Gretchen and Elliot successful, but would probably have a nice life by regular people standards.  ( I think the 95th percentile of income is 250K or more and he could have been earning that).

The reason I ask, is that if he would have never made meth, because he had no money problems and a pretty nice life, then does that refute the "he was Heisenberg all along theory"?

I don't think I agree with the premise of the question. What gets lost over the course of the show, for quite a while at least, was the practical driver for his breaking bad: he was told he was going to die, and as the sole income source, with a special needs kid and a baby on the way, he had to examine his options and take the best one, no matter how unappealing it would be (this is consistent with the approach he took to big problems through season 4: Crazy 8 is the first example). His decision to cook meth had nothing to do with any life he thought HE deserved: it was to avoid leaving his family in a life they DIDN'T deserve, financial hardship. If he'd been in the 95 percentile of income, his need for money in his situation likely would have been less acute, and of course may have led to different decisions, and yeah, would have made meth cooking less likely as a path, because he wouldn't have need 737K in six months. I have never supported the "all along" theory. I think he didn't become Heisenberg until after he was in remission. Before that he was a guy who had to face choices, literal life and death choices, and he had to make the best decision regardless of if it was savory or not. 

16 hours ago, ByTor said:

Hank was teasing Walt at his birthday party, which prompted Walt to ask to do the ride-along, which I thought prompted Walt to think "Hey, not only can I do that, but I bet I can do it better!"  The reason Hank's teasing got to him was IMO because of Walt's insecurity.  Now, the question is, why was Walt insecure?  Was is because he is just a garden variety insecure person?  Was he insecure because of his career choice, and thus his earnings? Was he insecure because he was basically powerless in both his teaching job & his marriage?  Would he have had the power he seemed to love if he stayed with Gray Matter (probably not because it would have been a 3-way partnership)? Did he leave Gray Matter not because he needed the cash but because he was afraid that whatever it was that he worked on would fail, and he couldn't handle being a failure?  

Just my opinion, but if Walt stayed with Gray Matter and had Gretchen/Elliot levels of money, I'm not so sure going into the meth business would have even occurred to him.  But, by the same token, I think he loved to prove that he wasn't the milquetoast guy everybody thought he was.  So maybe he would have gone "bad" in some other manner, but I'm not so sure it would have anything to do with illegal drugs.

Hank wasn't necessarily teasing Walt about anything of import, it's extremely likely that Walt was well used to have Hank break his balls, that's just who Hank was. It wasn't the thought that he could do it better that drove him, it was the thought that "I need a lot of money extremely quickly to leave my family in a position where they can function." I'd make the argument that simply BECAUSE he went into teaching, and never pursued lab work, never worked for a rival company, never really pursued his chemistry gifts prior to being diagnosed, Walt starts out as a very secure person. He's fine being a teacher, living in a modest house, leading a modest life, having summers off, etc. There's no enough evidence of insecurity, there's no competition with anyone else, until Jesse cooks that meth after he and Walt part ways. I don't think insecurity is a motivating factor. Ego and insecurity are, of course, two different things, though. That said...

I don't think Walt developed or  discovered the ego everyone seems to remember, as it was so indelible to the denoument of the show, until well AFTER he met Gus. I've already said where I think he first tries on "heisenberg" (the home depot parking lot), which is where the ego sort of begins. It's where decides the ABQ is "his turf." But that seems like means to an end. Take a look at another moment. After Gail is fired and Jesse rejoins Walt's operation, Jesse tells Walt he's been "doing the math" on what Gus is making, and Walt already knew (of course), it was something like $196 million to their $3 million. If he'd had the ego that it seems like people are ascribing to him, he wouldn't have said to Jesse basically BE HAPPY WITH WHAT WE HAVE. Would Daniel Plainview have said that? What egoist would have seen that indisputable imablance and said "I'm good making 1.5% of the total revenue and taking home half that"? That doesn't seem likely. If instead he were totally driven by ego, when Walt came to $196 to $3, he'd have immediately set in motion a plan to take a bigger bite. He only comes to friction with Gus when Jesse necessitates it, by selling his product in Gus's turf.  I think had Jesse never been discovered by Hank, had Hank never followed the Winnebago to the scrapyard, had the events of One Minute been avoided (precipitated by Hank's vicious beating of Jesse, his suspension, his lack of a gun, etc), then Walt and Gail would have gone on cooking like actual chemists indefinitely. Of course, inevitably he'd have had to 'deal' with Jesse in some way, because Jesse wasn't smart enough on his own to stay out of Hank's clutches for long, and he'd have rolled hard on Walt when he got busted. I suspect Fring would have orchestrated Jesse's death quickly had Hank not gotten involved. If Walt never insisted on Jesse's safety, if he'd paid Jesse $3M to move to someplace like Missouri (outside of Fring's sphere of influence), how different is the show? Gale still works for Fring, Walt still works with Gale, they make a very comfortable and safe and stable living, how many lives are saved...

There's also evidence that Walt was not, in fact, a material part of the success of Gray Matters, even the baseline work he was doing when he left it. I'm sure it chapped his ass seeing that company grow into a superpower, but there's some evidence that he had no direct influence on that. I've already said a lot and I am sorry for the long post, but again, I can't NOT talk about this show if a discussion exists! :)

Edited January 13, 2017 by Uncle JUICE

[DangerousMinds]

I wonder if Walt had life insurance through his job or otherwise? I guess there would be no show if things were so simple.:)

[qtpye]

17 minutes ago, Uncle JUICE said:

I don't think I agree with the premise of the question. What gets lost over the course of the show, for quite a while at least, was the practical driver for his breaking bad: he was told he was going to die, and as the sole income source, with a special needs kid and a baby on the way, he had to examine his options and take the best one, no matter how unappealing it would be (this is consistent with the approach he took to big problems through season 4: Crazy 8 is the first example). His decision to cook meth had nothing to do with any life he thought HE deserved: it was to avoid leaving his family in a life they DIDN'T deserve, financial hardship. If he'd been in the 95 percentile of income, his need for money in his situation likely would have been less acute, and of course may have led to different decisions, and yeah, would have made meth cooking less likely as a path, because he wouldn't have need 737K in six months. I have never supported the "all along" theory. I think he didn't become Heisenberg until after he was in remission. Before that he was a guy who had to face choices, literal life and death choices, and he had to make the best decision regardless of if it was savory or not. 

I can see this.  You reminded me that in the beginning of the show, I though Walt was an extremely selfless fellow, who was willing to put himself in grave danger, to provide a good life for his family, after he is gone.

I thought this until he turned down the job and health care cost coverage provided by Eliot and Gretchen.

[Uncle JUICE]

15 minutes ago, qtpye said:

I can see this.  You reminded me that in the beginning of the show, I though Walt was an extremely selfless fellow, who was willing to put himself in grave danger, to provide a good life for his family, after he is gone.

I thought this until he turned down the job and health care cost coverage provided by Eliot and Gretchen.

But it wasn't that he found the offer tasteless or was offended by their wealth, and he turned down less for pride, I think, than it appears in retrospect. Certainly pride played a role, he had a plan already and he'd come to terms with his decision not to fight it. He didn't need someone else's money to meddle with it. But what pissed Walt off wasn't that at all. He got pissed off that Skyler told them without talking to him first, because she knew he'd have had objections to it and she'd have never gotten his permission to share HIS condition. He knew why she told them: it wasn't for sympathy, it wasn't for friendship, it was because she wanted them to help. That's the argument they have in the car on the way out. She was trying to eliminate his excuses for not getting treatment by taking a well thought out shot at what she thought was the biggest one, finances. It's here where you might be able to make the ego / pride argument with better timing, though: he tells them during the gut wrenching intervention that he doesn't want them to remember him as an invalid, as requiring assistance. He also notes that he doesn't want to survive, he wants to live (which as he lists the things he enjoys and finds important have nothing to do with materials, or being unable to upgrade their life...Walt cries when he says things like 'unable to hold my daughter, to make love to my wife...what kind of life is that? No. That's my choice.') God, is there any argument for any other character in TV history being as fascinating as Walter White?

 

27 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

I wonder if Walt had life insurance through his job or otherwise? I guess there would be no show if things were so simple.:)

Teacher's unions almost always include life insurance, but a guy making $43K a year dying when his daughter was only weeks old, that life insurance would not have covered through college. 

Edited January 13, 2017 by Uncle JUICE

[Chaos Theory]

Yes Skylar might have been wrong to make an end run around Walt but not so much to vilify her the way a lot of people have.  Many use this as a second excuse to call her the worst wife and human being ever even though Walt already has a body count by this point.  She made a mistake with good intentions Walt was being an ass.    I get why he didn't want to go to his former business partners for help and felt betrayed by Skylar but I also get why she went to them for help regardless of his wishes.  I am not sure I wouldn't have done the same in her shoes.  I'll save your life now,  You can hate me later.

If you say it's alright for Walt to sell meth for his families wellbeing then it's ok for Skylar to ask for money from a friend for her families well being.  Begging may be odious but it is at least legal.

Edited January 13, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[Uncle JUICE]

14 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

Yes Skylar might have been wrong to make an end run around Walt but not so much to vilify her the way a lot of people have.  Many use this as a second excuse to call her the worst wife and human being ever even though Walt already has a body count by this point.  She made a mistake with good intentions Walt was being an ass.    I get why he didn't want to go to his former business partners for help and felt betrayed by Skylar but I also get why she went to them for help regardless of his wishes.  I am not sure I wouldn't have done the same in her shoes.  I'll save your life now,  You can hate me later.

If you say it's alright for Walt to sell meth for his families wellbeing then it's ok for Skylar to ask for money from a friend for her families well being.  Begging may be odious but it is at least legal.

Absolutely agreed on this: I wouldn't condemn Skyler in any way for what she tried, yup I'd have done the same, and yes, Walt reacted like an ass. All Im trying to do is clarify the motives that evolve over time, they're complicated and they're the reason this show stands up so well.

ETA the evolution of those motives is a byproduct of why this show was superior. They were never afraid to change what would have appeared to be the foundation of the show. Walt has cancer, needs to cook meth...Skyler doesn't know what he's doing, now she does know...cancer in remission, Walt no longer NEEDS to cook...Walt has a good thing going with Gale and Gus...now he doesn't...Hank doesn't know, now he does, etc. By having the courage to do that in such smart ways, at smart moments, it kept us guessing and thinking. Game of Thrones has a similar dynamic, except by now we know to expect big changes, even when to expect them for the most part. The antithesis of this is a show like Dexter, which started out as an interesting show but turned him into a superhero and twisted itself into hilarious knots to maintain the show's premise. 24 was the same thing. 

Edited January 13, 2017 by Uncle JUICE

[ByTor]

59 minutes ago, Uncle JUICE said:

There's also evidence that Walt was not, in fact, a material part of the success of Gray Matters, even the baseline work he was doing when he left it. 

I'll have to do another rewatch (poor me LOL), but I thought it was established that Walt's research was the main reason for Gray Matters' success, and what chapped his ass is that not only did Gretchen & Elliot get all the money, they also got all the credit.  Even at the end, when Walt was about to turn himself in to the police, he changed his mind after seeing the TV interview with G&E and hearing them lie that Walt had nothing to do with the company's success.  

1 hour ago, Uncle JUICE said:

Hank wasn't necessarily teasing Walt about anything of import, it's extremely likely that Walt was well used to have Hank break his balls, that's just who Hank was. It wasn't the thought that he could do it better that drove him, it was the thought that "I need a lot of money extremely quickly to leave my family in a position where they can function." 

I agree that needing the money due to his illness was a driving force, but I disagree that the thought of Walt being able to do it better didn't also drive him.  He loved picking apart Jessie and his "lab" and his methods, and Walt did take a great deal of pride in turning out a superior product.

[Uncle JUICE]

6 minutes ago, ByTor said:

I'll have to do another rewatch (poor me LOL), but I thought it was established that Walt's research was the main reason for Gray Matters' success, and what chapped his ass is that not only did Gretchen & Elliot get all the money, they also got all the credit.  Even at the end, when Walt was about to turn himself in to the police, he changed his mind after seeing the TV interview with G&E and hearing them lie that Walt had nothing to do with the company's success.  

I agree that needing the money due to his illness was a driving force, but I disagree that the thought of Walt being able to do it better didn't also drive him.  He loved picking apart Jessie and his "lab" and his methods, and Walt did take a great deal of pride in turning out a superior product.

I always thought the Gray Matters thing in Granite State was perfectly ambiguous, in that yes, maybe he thought "fuck those two, I did all this work and now thy're lying, I'll get them" (which we have no way of really knowing), OR maybe he saw them and thought "THAT's how I get the money to Junior!" because he'd tried to send it in a diaper box as cold hard cash, that would have been a bad idea. 

I interpreted his pecking at Jesse as insecurity! As in "if this junkie dropout can come within 1% of my product, then how special can I really be? Why am I important?" I put in the exclamation because it's so cool that so many people can watch this show and interpret things similarly, and hearing others' takes on it makes me see it from a different perspective even if I don't agree wholeheartedly. It's rare these days to see different viewpoints and sincerely say "I can see how you saw it that way, too." If it were a book it'd be my favorite! 

Edited January 13, 2017 by Uncle JUICE

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, Uncle JUICE said:

Certainly pride played a role, he had a plan already and he'd come to terms with his decision not to fight it. He didn't need someone else's money to meddle with it. But what pissed Walt off wasn't that at all. He got pissed off that Skyler told them without talking to him first, because she knew he'd have had objections to it and she'd have never gotten his permission to share HIS condition. He knew why she told them: it wasn't for sympathy, it wasn't for friendship, it was because she wanted them to help. That's the argument they have in the car on the way out. She was trying to eliminate his excuses for not getting treatment by taking a well thought out shot at what she thought was the biggest one, finances.

It was manipulative and humiliating for him, but it was a hell of a better alternative then diving head first into the ugly world of Meth.

He could have just told Gretchen and Eliot that he did not want money for treatment or a job, but they put money into a trust for his children.  This would be putting his family before his own needs.

Quote

I always thought the Gray Matters thing in Granite State was perfectly ambiguous, in that yes, maybe he thought "fuck those two, I did all this work and now thy're lying, I'll get them" (which we have no way of really knowing), OR maybe he saw them and thought "THAT's how I get the money to Junior!" because he'd tried to send it in a diaper box as cold hard cash, that would have been a bad idea. 

His life being a total failure was probably a combination of circumstance and his own incompetence.  Like his contribution to Grey Matter, it is ambiguous how such a brilliant man with so much potential had to end up working at a car wash to make ends meet.

I also should say that I am not arguing with you, I enjoy hearing your point of view.

At the end of the series, he got to die on the floor feeling satisfied with himself, but his family will have to deal with the stigma of being related to him.  Marie lost Hank due to his actions and I doubt if anyone is happy.

[Uncle JUICE]

11 minutes ago, qtpye said:

It was manipulative and humiliating for him, but it was a hell of a better alternative then diving head first into the ugly world of Meth.

He could have just told Gretchen and Eliot that he did not want money for treatment or a job, but they put money into a trust for his children.  This would be putting his family before his own needs.

His life being a total failure was probably a combination of circumstance and his own incompetence.  Like his contribution to Grey Matter, it is ambiguous how such a brilliant man with so much potential had to end up working at a car wash to make ends meet.

I also should say that I am not arguing with you, I enjoy hearing your point of view.

At the end of the series, he got to die on the floor feeling satisfied with himself, but his family will have to deal with the stigma of being related to him.  Marie lost Hank due to his actions and I doubt if anyone is happy.

He hadn't dove headlong into meth...in fact, he tells Gus he's no longer going to cook, that he's not a criminal anymore, early in S3, though. It's consistent with his "doing it for the family" story he convinced himself was true throughout. That story WAS true, until it wasn't anymore. I'm not sure "total failure" is how I'd qualify his life, either. We don't know very much about his day to day prior to to his diagnosis (just that he needed to make extra money to make ends meet). 

What really struck me is your last paragraph, it's the takeaway I got from the entire series: no one who came into contact with Walt got out clean, in fact it was just varying degrees of life changing misery the closer you got to him. Hank's dead. Marie's a widow. Skyler's unemployable and under monitor by the law. Junior is devastated and reviles even the memory of his father (this convinced Walt to give up in Granite State right before he sees the solution on tv). Jesse is severely damaged, has no one who cares about him, and is a fugitive from justice. Saul runs a Cinnabon. Gus is dead. Salamanca is dead. Gale is dead. No one got a happy ending, maybe Badger and Skinny Pete?

[qtpye]

30 minutes ago, Uncle JUICE said:

I'm not sure "total failure" is how I'd qualify his life, either. We don't know very much about his day to day prior to to his diagnosis (just that he needed to make extra money to make ends meet). 

I agree this is harsh.  I think if he had just remained beloved husband, father, and teacher...his family would have wonderful memories of him.

Junior respected his father and everyone know how smart he was.  He had a degree from Cal Tech and even if he was not doing his dream job, I am thinking he must have inspired some students with his love of science.

He is surrounded by family and friends at his birthday party in the pilot.

By the end of the series he is alone, dying, bored out of his mind, and surrounded by money that is useless to him.

He had one last hoorah to make it right, but it never will be right again for all the people he hurt and damaged.

[ghoulina]

4 hours ago, ByTor said:

I'll have to do another rewatch (poor me LOL), but I thought it was established that Walt's research was the main reason for Gray Matters' success, and what chapped his ass is that not only did Gretchen & Elliot get all the money, they also got all the credit.

I saw it this way as well. But I think the issue is, Walt chose to walk away. Again it goes back to his arrogance/insecurity. Everyone should praise him for what a genius he is, but he's too threatened by other smart people, AND wealthy people, to see it through. 

[ByTor]

54 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

I saw it this way as well. But I think the issue is, Walt chose to walk away. Again it goes back to his arrogance/insecurity. Everyone should praise him for what a genius he is, but he's too threatened by other smart people, AND wealthy people, to see it through. 

Plus, he doesn't play well with others and would be horrible to have as a partner.

[guilfoyleatpp]

2 hours ago, ghoulina said:

I saw it this way as well. But I think the issue is, Walt chose to walk away. Again it goes back to his arrogance/insecurity. Everyone should praise him for what a genius he is, but he's too threatened by other smart people, AND wealthy people, to see it through. 

THIS is a good point! At one point in the series he describes himself to the psychiatrist as "the most overqualified high school chemistry teacher ever." 

He's in the milieu of Albuquerque high school teachers and students. He lives every day knowing he is intellectually superior to everyone around him. That's one of his touch stones.  He dumped his brilliant, socioeconomically blessed lab partner and girlfriend and fell for a pretty hostess.  When he left Grey Matter, he may have told himself that he was eschewing the ivory tower for a life of asceticism. 

In reality he may have been frightened by not always being the most brilliant guy in the room. Once you peak, controlling the trajectory of the downslide is all you have.

[ketose]

On 1/13/2017 at 6:27 PM, guilfoyleatpp said:

THIS is a good point! At one point in the series he describes himself to the psychiatrist as "the most overqualified high school chemistry teacher ever." 

He's in the milieu of Albuquerque high school teachers and students. He lives every day knowing he is intellectually superior to everyone around him. That's one of his touch stones.  He dumped his brilliant, socioeconomically blessed lab partner and girlfriend and fell for a pretty hostess.  When he left Grey Matter, he may have told himself that he was eschewing the ivory tower for a life of asceticism. 

In reality he may have been frightened by not always being the most brilliant guy in the room. Once you peak, controlling the trajectory of the downslide is all you have.

Walt made a series of poor decisions. In some cases, choices were made for him. It's pretty clear Walt can't work for anyone. That might have been the problem with Grey Matters. Even though he was a partner, he probably felt he was working for wealthier colleges. He married a younger woman who was working a service job, but she eventually controlled the household. Walt apparently couldn't work at a lab or a college unless he was the head of the department. In high school, he was head of a department of one. He was Jean-Luc Picard from "Tapestry."

[qtpye]

On 1/13/2017 at 6:27 PM, guilfoyleatpp said:

He's in the milieu of Albuquerque high school teachers and students. He lives every day knowing he is intellectually superior to everyone around him. That's one of his touch stones.  He dumped his brilliant, socioeconomically blessed lab partner and girlfriend and fell for a pretty hostess.  When he left Grey Matter, he may have told himself that he was eschewing the ivory tower for a life of asceticism. 

In reality he may have been frightened by not always being the most br

His history with Gretchen was really odd.  He seemed to be offended that she was rich.  She seems like a super nice woman and he was really very lucky to have her.

Also, I remember him speaking about how Skylar beat him at cross word puzzles when they first met.  I guess he thinks he is her superior, but I hope he respects her intelligence, however she has nothing that would trigger his insecurities in the same manner as Gretchen's wealth.

When we go back to the heart breaking scene where they are first buying what Walt thinks is their "starter home", it is obvious that Walt thinks he is going to be a success, in whatever way he defines it.

He probably thought that Grey Matter would fall apart without him and he (like he said in that scene) himself has nowhere to go but up.

[Uncle JUICE]

On 1/18/2017 at 11:45 AM, qtpye said:

His history with Gretchen was really odd.  He seemed to be offended that she was rich.  She seems like a super nice woman and he was really very lucky to have her.

Also, I remember him speaking about how Skylar beat him at cross word puzzles when they first met.  I guess he thinks he is her superior, but I hope he respects her intelligence, however she has nothing that would trigger his insecurities in the same manner as Gretchen's wealth.

When we go back to the heart breaking scene where they are first buying what Walt thinks is their "starter home", it is obvious that Walt thinks he is going to be a success, in whatever way he defines it.

He probably thought that Grey Matter would fall apart without him and he (like he said in that scene) himself has nowhere to go but up.

This history with Gretchen is vague, for sure. We know less about her than we do about Walt, though, so it's difficult to assign any valid reason for their split beyond what both characters tell us. It sounds indeed like it had something to do with Gretchen's money, but beyond that it's impossible to really say (for all we know she wasn't all that nice, either, but that's making it up out of whole cloth).

He didn't say she beat him at crosswords: he said he noticed her doing them, in ink, and decided he'd do them too, as a way to interact with her. He absolutely respected her intelligence, it's one thing in their relationship he never questions. Her intelligence is why he finds lying to her so hard, and he does it so ham handedly. His lies to everyone else are completely smooth, totally believable, but every time he lies to Skyler, particularly before he tells her about his real job, it's an absolutely transparent lie. It's like a teenager's lie. Sorry, I'm not trying to nitpick, but that detail, that he wasn't competing with Skyler, is an important distinction. You can certainly support an egotistical Walt, maybe even an insecure Walt, but I maintain that it's not a case that can be made prior to his decision to embrace, or actually create, his alter ego. Before he decides "I'm the one who knocks," he is still convincing himself that he's doing what's right for his family, that's the whole reason for doing it. I just finished watching The Fly last night in an airport, a season 3 polarizing episode (some people love it, some people think it's the worst ep of the show). In it he makes a speech about how he's lived too long...it's under the influence of sleep agents Jesse'd put in his coffee. It's not the speech of someone who has been consumed by his own ego, it's the speech of someone with regrets, who recognizes the effects his poor choices have had, which if he were an narcissist or an egoist, would be difficult to do. He'd blame others for the bad while taking credit for the good (like the guy getting sworn in today). It's one of Cranston's great moments, arriving at how he missed the perfect moment to die. 

[ByTor]

7 hours ago, Uncle JUICE said:

This history with Gretchen is vague, for sure. We know less about her than we do about Walt, though, so it's difficult to assign any valid reason for their split beyond what both characters tell us. It sounds indeed like it had something to do with Gretchen's money, but beyond that it's impossible to really say (for all we know she wasn't all that nice, either, but that's making it up out of whole cloth).

Yep, it had to do with Gretchen's money...even though the show never bothered telling us that

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/vince-gilligan-walter-white-gray-matter_us_56e85f27e4b0b25c91838d57

Quote

 

“Breaking Bad” actress Jessica Hecht, who plays Gretchen, mentioned in an AMC Q&A that Walt left the company and their relationship because he felt inferior. Gilligan confirmed this was true to HuffPost, saying, “She’s correct, and that’s what I explained to her and to [Bryan Cranston] before they shot that big scene between the two of them where they were at the restaurant.”

The scene Gilligan is referring to takes place in the Season 2 episode “Peekaboo.”

“It ends with him being so nasty to her saying, ‘Fuck you,’ and then she leaves tearfully,” said Gilligan. “In my mind, the interesting thing here — and I always kind of hate to nail it down so explicitly — but let’s put it this way, most viewers of ‘Breaking Bad’ assume Gretchen and Elliott are the bad guys, and they assume that Walt got ripped off by them, got ill used by them, and I never actually saw it that way.”

Gilligan explained that the truth is more nuanced. It all stemmed from White’s feeling of inferiority while spending time with Gretchen’s family.

 

[Bryce Lynch]

On 1/13/2017 at 10:49 AM, qtpye said:

I can see this.  You reminded me that in the beginning of the show, I though Walt was an extremely selfless fellow, who was willing to put himself in grave danger, to provide a good life for his family, after he is gone.

I thought this until he turned down the job and health care cost coverage provided by Eliot and Gretchen.

Turning down the job or handout from Gretchen and Elliot, and deciding to keep cooking meth instead was perhaps the most important and most immoral decisions Walt ever made.  He obviously made it out of pride, and on some level it was understandable, but it sort of took away the legitimacy of his "I am doing this all for my family" rationalization.  If not for their offer, his decision to keep cooking would have been more morally ambiguous.  Once they made that offer, it became about pride, not providing for his family.  

He was sort of "forced" to do a lot of the horrible things he did to save his own life, the lives of his family members or Jesse's life, but the choice to turn down Gretchen and Elliot was what put him in those horrible positions.  

The other truly morally abhorrent thing he did, that led to terrible tragedy was turning down the $5 million dollar buyout.  Once again, it was no longer about providing for his family, or protecting himself or loved ones, but pride.  I wonder if the offer had been $4 million or $6 million instead of $5 million if he would have reluctantly agreed.  I always thought the parallel between the $5,000 buyout from Grey Matter and the $5,000,000 from Declan might have been what stuck in Walt's craw.  

[qtpye]

On 1/20/2017 at 4:47 PM, ByTor said:

“It ends with him being so nasty to her saying, ‘Fuck you,’ and then she leaves tearfully,” said Gilligan. “In my mind, the interesting thing here — and I always kind of hate to nail it down so explicitly — but let’s put it this way, most viewers of ‘Breaking Bad’ assume Gretchen and Elliott are the bad guys, and they assume that Walt got ripped off by them, got ill used by them, and I never actually saw it that way.”

So instead of an "awesome, I am dating a nice attractive intelligent woman, who also happens to be rich" it played on all his insecurities.

It would be unbelievable, if I did not know some people like this.

I know a woman who is very conventionally attractive (looks like Margo Robbie), who purposely does not date great looking guys.  She needs to be the "pretty one" in the relationship, because she is afraid that is the most valuable thing she brings to the table.

I also know a really brilliant physician who dates absolute train wrecks, because he is so insecure that he can not stand not being needed.  An emotionally stable awesome woman would play upon all his self doubting fears.

Even though this mind set is self defeating and puts the person in a bad situation,  I have seen it real life.

Edited January 24, 2017 by qtpye

[Bryce Lynch]

On 1/18/2017 at 11:45 AM, qtpye said:

His history with Gretchen was really odd.  He seemed to be offended that she was rich.  She seems like a super nice woman and he was really very lucky to have her.

Also, I remember him speaking about how Skylar beat him at cross word puzzles when they first met.  I guess he thinks he is her superior, but I hope he respects her intelligence, however she has nothing that would trigger his insecurities in the same manner as Gretchen's wealth.

When we go back to the heart breaking scene where they are first buying what Walt thinks is their "starter home", it is obvious that Walt thinks he is going to be a success, in whatever way he defines it.

He probably thought that Grey Matter would fall apart without him and he (like he said in that scene) himself has nowhere to go but up.

I think the home shopping scene showed that Walt was still full of confidence and optimism even after the Grey Matter situation.  I think you can also see Skyler sort of dragging him down.  On the one hand she is being the "sensible" one, but she also seems to limit him.  There is nothing wrong with her being more cautious, but I suspect she subtly wore down Walt's confidence with her less optimistic outlook.  I would imagine have a child born with CP was probably a shattering blow to Walt's confidence in things working out for them,  and also influenced him seek the safe, secure job as a school teacher.  

[ghoulina]

5 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Turning down the job or handout from Gretchen and Elliot, and deciding to keep cooking meth instead was perhaps the most important and most immoral decisions Walt ever made.  He obviously made it out of pride, and on some level it was understandable, but it sort of took away the legitimacy of his "I am doing this all for my family" rationalization.  If not for their offer, his decision to keep cooking would have been more morally ambiguous.  Once they made that offer, it became about pride, not providing for his family.  

He was sort of "forced" to do a lot of the horrible things he did to save his own life, the lives of his family members or Jesse's life, but the choice to turn down Gretchen and Elliot was what put him in those horrible positions.  

Totally agree. That is why I see that moment as such a pivotal one in his transformation. It may not have been as conscious for HIM as the Home Depot parking lot moment. But it showed the viewers that deep down inside, this is a man who is choosing ego and pride above all else. I mean, if you're facing a likely death sentence anyway, why not take the easiest option to provide for your family? Why not spend those last months/years WITH them, in comfort? You can't take your pride or your millions with you. But having some nice memories with his family would have been nice. That decision really did lead to all the others. 

[Bryce Lynch]

5 minutes ago, qtpye said:

So instead of an "awesome, I am dating a nice attractive intelligent woman, who also happens to be rich" it played on all his insecurities.

It would be unbelievable, if I did not know some people like this.

I know a woman who is very conventionally attractive (looks like Margo Robbie), who purposely does not date great looking guys.  She needs to be the "pretty one" in the relationship, because she is afraid that is the most valuable thing she brings to the table.

I also know a rally brilliant physician who dates absolute train wrecks, because he is so insecure that he can not stand not being needed.  An emotionally stable awesome woman would play upon all his self doubting fears.

Even though this mind set is self defeating and puts the person in a bad situation,  I have seen it real life.

I think Walt might have been more intimidated by Gretchen's family than by her.  I suspect he felt like he didn't belong and that they, but not Gretchen, looked down on him.  That would not be an unusual feeling. 

[Bryce Lynch]

5 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

Totally agree. That is why I see that moment as such a pivotal one in his transformation. It may not have been as conscious for HIM as the Home Depot parking lot moment. But it showed the viewers that deep down inside, this is a man who is choosing ego and pride above all else. I mean, if you're facing a likely death sentence anyway, why not take the easiest option to provide for your family? Why not spend those last months/years WITH them, in comfort? You can't take your pride or your millions with you. But having some nice memories with his family would have been nice. That decision really did lead to all the others. 

I agree, but I also think the death sentence, cancer diagnosis was what triggered that pride.  We are all naturally full of ugly pride, but Walt had humbled himself for many years to provide for his family, teaching stupid, bratty teenagers and wiping down cars for eye brow man.  I think once he got the cancer diagnosis he decided, to hell with all that, as being humble got him nothing.   He alludes to this a few times.  Once when he tells the guy in the chemo room that he decided to live his life on his own terms for as long as he had left.  Also, when Hank was in his bed with PTSD after killing Tuco and he told Hank that he no longer had fear or trouble sleeping after the diagnosis and told he he need to get up and kick fear in the teeth as hard as he could.  We also see it with him confronting the punk bullying Jr. in the clothing store and torching Ken Wins' car.  

[Uncle JUICE]

4 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I agree, but I also think the death sentence, cancer diagnosis was what triggered that pride.  We are all naturally full of ugly pride, but Walt had humbled himself for many years to provide for his family, teaching stupid, bratty teenagers and wiping down cars for eye brow man.  I think once he got the cancer diagnosis he decided, to hell with all that, as being humble got him nothing.   He alludes to this a few times.  Once when he tells the guy in the chemo room that he decided to live his life on his own terms for as long as he had left.  Also, when Hank was in his bed with PTSD after killing Tuco and he told Hank that he no longer had fear or trouble sleeping after the diagnosis and told he he need to get up and kick fear in the teeth as hard as he could.  We also see it with him confronting the punk bullying Jr. in the clothing store and torching Ken Wins' car.  

Are these really "ego" or "prideful" moments, per se, or can they also be construed as "fearless because death is imminent and Walt wants to have AN AFFECT on the world around him" moments? That's specifically how I read both of these moments, which both happen very early in the series. I think the store is in the pilot episode, and Walt's vicious defense of his child is totally understandable. But both struck me as moments where Walt's internal monologue ended with the phrase "Fuck it, I have how long left to live, I want to die having DONE something, not wished I did something."

[Bryce Lynch]

13 minutes ago, Uncle JUICE said:

Are these really "ego" or "prideful" moments, per se, or can they also be construed as "fearless because death is imminent and Walt wants to have AN AFFECT on the world around him" moments? That's specifically how I read both of these moments, which both happen very early in the series. I think the store is in the pilot episode, and Walt's vicious defense of his child is totally understandable. But both struck me as moments where Walt's internal monologue ended with the phrase "Fuck it, I have how long left to live, I want to die having DONE something, not wished I did something."

I agree.  I think the same "F it!, I'm dying anyway" attitude that let him torch the car and beat up the bully led him to feed his pride rather than resist it, as he had for so many years.  I suppose you could argue that fear of consequences was what caused Walt to behave humbly for all those years, but I think it would be hard for a truly prideful man to put up with Bogdan's crap at the car wash.

[Uncle JUICE]

2 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I agree.  I think the same "F it!, I'm dying anyway" attitude that let him torch the car and beat up the bully led him to feed his pride rather than resist it, as he had for so many years.  I suppose you could argue that fear of consequences was what caused Walt to behave humbly for all those years, but I think it would be hard for a truly prideful man to put up with Bogdan's crap at the car wash.

But he did put up with it...Skyler notes that he worked there for four years when they're trying to buy it. I'm not sure if I'm agreeing or disagreeing with you or myself :)! I don't think it fed his pride as much as it led him to feel ALIVE as he notes when he buys the winnebago with his retirement fund. Being afraid of consequences is a natural adult societal limiter, we're SUPPOSED to be afraid of consequences, particularly as they impact our immediate families. And I think maybe I'm reading "pride" with the negative connotation, when that might not be the case. Pride is a good thing; arrogance is the mutation. 

[ByTor]

4 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

 Also, when Hank was in his bed with PTSD after killing Tuco and he told Hank that he no longer had fear or trouble sleeping after the diagnosis and told he he need to get up and kick fear in the teeth as hard as he could.  

This is so true.  If Walt had a fear of death, the news of his diagnosis would have made what he feared reality...now that it has happened, what is there to fear?

[Uncle JUICE]

Are you saying Walt thinks he somehow beat death and therefore has nothing left to fear? 

[ByTor]

51 minutes ago, Uncle JUICE said:

Are you saying Walt thinks he somehow beat death and therefore has nothing left to fear? 

Not that he beat it.  I hope this makes sense, but I mean that you can spend all your time being afraid of something that hasn't happened yet, but once it happens, there's no longer the fear of it happening, because it happened.  Maybe dealing with it would result in some anxiety, but that's a whole different thing (in my opinion anyway).  

Please don't take a shot every time I used the word "happen" in some form, you'll get sick :)

[Uncle JUICE]

Ok, so I think I agree inasmuch as Walter faced death up close and personal and temporarily escaped it...once you've done that, nothing else seems really frightening, at least to the point in the show where Hank was bedridden (immediately after 1 minute). But he's in for a surprise, because he quickly loses control of his situation, and discovers what fear really looks like, when the potential losses he faces are no longer limited to just himself. Working for Gus, Walter unwittingly puts at risk his entire family, including Jesse, and spends most of season 4 in abject terror. He isn't kicking fear in the teeth at any point between Full Measure and Face Off. 

[Bryce Lynch]

5 hours ago, Uncle JUICE said:

Ok, so I think I agree inasmuch as Walter faced death up close and personal and temporarily escaped it...once you've done that, nothing else seems really frightening, at least to the point in the show where Hank was bedridden (immediately after 1 minute). But he's in for a surprise, because he quickly loses control of his situation, and discovers what fear really looks like, when the potential losses he faces are no longer limited to just himself. Working for Gus, Walter unwittingly puts at risk his entire family, including Jesse, and spends most of season 4 in abject terror. He isn't kicking fear in the teeth at any point between Full Measure and Face Off. 

I agree, but on the other hand he had every reason to be afraid during that time and he was continually plotting and scheming to try to stay alive and kill Gus. (Buys a gun, tries to get Mike to help him, cook ricin, poisons a kid, and finally blows up a nursing home) He had some moments where it seemed like he was giving up, but each time he would pick himself up, dust himself off and start all over again. :)

[Uncle JUICE]

I attribute the season 4 plotting and scheming less to "kicking fear in the teeth" and far more with "self preservation / survival instinct." It was a really impressive feat, both for the character and even more so for the actor, to balance that level-headed plotting and carefulness with suddenly staring into an abyss far more immediate than cancer ever was.

But seeing Walt's actions listed so succinctly there as you have done, wow, Walt, yeesh. He really was the one who knocks. 

[qtpye]

Just think,  he was brought down by his habit of reading poetry on the toilet...if only his ego would have let him throw away that book.

[ByTor]

His ego is what got him killed in the finale.  He was about to turn himself in, but we all know what happened after Gretchen & Elliot said in that TV interview that Walt's research had nothing to do with Grey Matters' success.

[Bryce Lynch]

5 hours ago, ByTor said:

His ego is what got him killed in the finale.  He was about to turn himself in, but we all know what happened after Gretchen & Elliot said in that TV interview that Walt's research had nothing to do with Grey Matters' success.

That was one time where it wasn't ego.  When he saw Gretchen and Elliot on Charlie Rose, a lightbulb went on over his head and he realized there was a way he could get his barrel of cash to his family without them or the DEA knowing it was from him.  

He was actually denying his ego by letting Walt Jr and everyone else believe it was a handout from Gretchen and Elliot.  That thought would have been repulsive to him before he went into hiding.

[ByTor]

8 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

That was one time where it wasn't ego.  When he saw Gretchen and Elliot on Charlie Rose, a lightbulb went on over his head and he realized there was a way he could get his barrel of cash to his family without them or the DEA knowing it was from him.  

He was actually denying his ego by letting Walt Jr and everyone else believe it was a handout from Gretchen and Elliot.  That thought would have been repulsive to him before he went into hiding.

I disagree.  When he initially saw the interview, Walt looked furious when they said his research had nothing to do with their success and that was what prompted him to not turn himself in.  I think the wheels in his head were spinning about how he could use them to his advantage.*  It is true, though, that he didn't let his ego get in the way by letting Flynn (Junior, whatever haha) think the money was from Gretchen & Elliot, he was smart enough to know that Flynn would have refused the money if he knew it was from. 

* I do love how he got even with them with the threat of the best hitmen this side of the Mississippi hanging over their heads.  IMO they would have come across a lot better if they said something like Walt was a brilliant chemist & they have no idea what could have happened to make him turn to the life he chose.

Edited January 27, 2017 by ByTor

[Bryce Lynch]

39 minutes ago, ByTor said:

I disagree.  When he initially saw the interview, Walt looked furious when they said his research had nothing to do with their success and that was what prompted him to not turn himself in.  I think the wheels in his head were spinning about how he could use them to his advantage.*  It is true, though, that he didn't let his ego get in the way by letting Flynn (Junior, whatever haha) think the money was from Gretchen & Elliot, he was smart enough to know that Flynn would have refused the money if he knew it was from. 

* I do love how he got even with them with the threat of the best hitmen this side of the Mississippi hanging over their heads.  IMO they would have come across a lot better if they said something like Walt was a brilliant chemist & they have no idea what could have happened to make him turn to the life he chose.

While he was no doubt annoyed by G&E that only shows more how Walt was suppressing his ego.  He was willing to let them (force them actually) be Walt Jr's heroes and benafactors.  All he cared about was getting his family the money.  He was ready to turn himself in because before seeing G&E he had given up all hope of ever getting any money to his family after Jr. rebuffed him on the phone.

This was a huge departure from his earlier attitude when he refused their money and was disgusted by the idea that Walt Jr thought a bunch of strangers on his webpage were donating all the drug money he earned.

[ByTor]

2 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

While he was no doubt annoyed by G&E that only shows more how Walt was suppressing his ego.  He was willing to let them (force them actually) be Walt Jr's heroes and benafactors.  All he cared about was getting his family the money.  He was ready to turn himself in because before seeing G&E he had given up all hope of ever getting any money to his family after Jr. rebuffed him on the phone.

 

As I said, maybe he did about the money, but I was talking about his ego being the driving force that made him not turn himself in and get even with G&E with the threat of the hitmen constantly hanging over their heads.  Sorry, agree to disagree, I just don't see it the same way you do :)

Edited January 27, 2017 by ByTor

[Chaos Theory]

If I remember correctly (and I might not) Gray Matter was started by three very bright people.  I don't think any of them were rich when it started.  Here is where things get a little fuzzy.  A decision in directon of the company needed to be made and Walt was out voted.  He ? led it like any Narcissist.  He quit figuring that the company couldn't possibly succeed without him.  When it thrived he handled it like any narcissist he went into a deep depression and just plain gave up.   If the company had failed Walt would have been all smiles and good humor and "compassion " as he bailed out his good friends but when he proved wrong his ego couldn't take it.  Then came a string of bad hits (including a special needs son which would have been a blow to Walts ego.)  Walt could and did love Jr/Flynn and still resent him.  Which is one of the reasons he clung to Jessie so fiercely.  Jessie was the son he dreamed of.   Even when it was in his best interests.  Which more then once it was.

Edited February 13, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[ghoulina]

I think Gretchen was always rich. She came from a wealthy family. That's WHEN Walt left her. When he went home to visit them. I don't know that he would have gone back if they begged him. His pride is unfathomable. But I do think he was certain they'd fail without him, so I'm sure he never even entertained the idea of going back. 

Walt has always been blinded by his arrogance. He really looked down on Jesse in the beginning, as nothing more than a stupid junkie. But Jesse was clever too. He was the one who realized that Saul was the perfect lawyer to help them out. "You won't want a criminal lawyer, you want a CRIMINAL lawyer". And Walt never realized that Jesse was turning to drugs to deal with the things he just couldn't deal with. The shit with Emilio and Crazy 8? Going into the Peekaboo house? Those things ate away at Jesse's soul. He was lot more sensitive than Walt. 

 

Kind of off topic, but I was inspired to do a re-watch and I'm on season two now. I forgot how much I LOVED the Better Call Saul episode. I laugh so freaking hard when Walt distracts Hank so Jesse can alert Badger to the fact that he's sitting down on the wrong bench. "Oh, oh are you working right now? Oh man, I'll get out of your hair. Should I back up? Or go forward? Okay, so if I go this way, I'll be out of the way?" Bahahahaha, it's just so funny. I really hate Walt sometimes, but he is one smart dude.