S03.E09: Making Memories

[Gator Stud]

Izabella-

I have also been thinking this about Ashley since the beginning, but I have a habit of justifying behavior, so I try to step back & look at what other people think too.

Most people say she is a snob, bitch or gold-digger because she is detached. I was surprised to see that because I really saw an introverted person who was completely overwhelmed emotionally--just as you wrote. She may be a snob, bitch or gold-digger but I found no sign of those things. I wish she wasn't so boring--but I don't think she's awful for having the feelings she has.

As someone else pointed out, Sean from last year acted like this when he got back from the honeymoon. I don't think that made him a bad person, those were his feelings.

I also feel that Ashley is hated on more because she is a woman & as the emotionally distant one in the relationship. Let's say the situation was reversed & the woman behaved like David & the man behaved like Ashley--would the general population see this differently?

I really think they would say the woman was delusional & the man was just having a hard time opening up and they would give him the benefit of the doubt.

Think about it, if a woman acted like David & said things like she was falling in love with someone who showed no interest in her at all -everyone would think she was "psycho."

I disagree with you that reason why people hate Mustache is because she is a woman. We hate her because she is super bitchy, and is being mean to David. Last season everybody hated coke head Ryan. Not because he was a man, but because he had a,nasty violent streak in him. I know you want to give Mustache the benefit of the doubt, but she is beyond redemption.

[still hoping]

Well I agree with Gator Stud. I do not enjoy Ashley and I think she was totally mis-cast...but....what else can she really do?

IMHO the "stakes" are high on this show - and it can leave the past participants in a very bad predicament

 

What do you do if not attracted? For a guy - maybe get some drinks and make the best of it. Or...like Victorian mothers told daughters "close your eyes and think of the Queen " like.."Do it for England"....? Perhaps the producers hope she will close her eyes and think of FYI..etc...LOL..."take one for the team">> heck it worked for Jamie right?

 

Not to mention - you are on tv...friends, family, past boyfriends...future boyfriend...your future (hope) real love husband..even future kids will see this for posterity

 

and what do you do? Get intimate with him then dump him? Haters would call her  slut, heartbreaker

 

I think she is delusional and closed off but I do blame the experts not the editing.

 

I admit I watch this trainwreck but at the back of my mind I think - get serious and do this with  2 devout Catholics (make sure one family Irish LOL)...and let's see them have  nuptial Mass with a Priest in the woman's home parish. Not gonna happen. Bottom line most of these probably end in divorce - but Ashley seems to want to preserve her dignity. I think she is trying to not "lead him on"...and speaking of Catholic....with last name Doherty (Irish) and Mom is French descent maybe she was raised Catholic and when found herself on this show felt old "belief" come back? Not easy

 

I also do not feel it is fair to say she is like nasty (drug?) Ryan.

 

 

Edited February 1, 2016 by still hoping

[biakbiak]

and what do you do? Get intimate with him then dump him? Haters would call her slut, heartbreaker

Not flinching when he sits near you would be a good start. I don't think anyone has suggested she sleep with him, just not treat him like a leper.

[stuckin60s]

i will repeat what i have said before.  it is not that Ashley is not being intimate with David.  It is she is not treating him with the decentcy you give to a stranger in line at the grocery store.  She is not polite, considerate, conversational  anything at all.  If she had a conversation with him, got to know him.  Even if she had no attraction at all - these 6 weeks would go by faster.  She would have less stress.  She might get a new friend. 

 

She told the experts that she always chose a man by his looks.  That it never turned out right .  That she wanted to try something else. 

 

She is educated, using the expression "if you cant say something nice, don't say anything at all" doesn't give her a pass.  We teach that to our small children.  As adults we do not always like everything about our neighbors, co-workers, friends, but we do try to enjoy them as they are.  We don't tell them I don't like this and that about you. 

 

If she really cared about what her family, friends thought about her actions would she have gone on this show?  Acted totally separate from the experience? 

Edited February 1, 2016 by stuckin60s

[Snarklepuss]

Snarkle, I think you are bang on with this and the show should hire YOU as one of the experts!

 

Though my impression is that David may be a commitmentphobe at heart, too, because he's admittedly "bad at relationships" but rilly, rilly wants to be married. I'm sure that he, too, thought the show could solve that problem by simply pole-vaulting him right over that messy dating stuff and presenting him with a fully committed wife with zero effort on his part.

 

Yet two commitmentphobes together will do nothing but sabotage the whole thing, and I think that's what we're seeing. Ashley sabotages by doing too little and David by doing too much.

 

LOL, thanks but unlike the sell-out experts on this show, I wouldn't want to compromise whatever ethics I have to participate in it.  Because I just can't see what they're doing as very ethical for a zillion reasons we've already discussed on this board and know well.

 

You may be right that David is also commitment phobic, but it's hard to tell because he's locked in the "pursuer" position while Ashley is locked in the position of the "distancer", which is typically how it plays out with couples where there is an imbalance of feelings.  The pursuer's issues are always more complicated and harder to spot.  The only way we'd know for sure is if Ashley were to have a change of heart on David and he suddenly ran in the other direction.  It would be kind of like when Jaclyn had her change of heart on Ryan and suddenly he went cold on her and started to whine about everything.  That was a complete surprise to a lot of people!  If Ashley never changes then David might never be "called" on his commitment phobia and he can believe until he dies that he would have gone through with the marriage "if only" she had been willing.

[Snarklepuss]

My impression of David's issues with dating was the exact opposite: that he wanted to commit too quickly.

 

That can actually be a behavior of commitment-phobes who want to jump into the deep end of the pool because they're afraid that if they take it slower they may get cold feet and back out - But it backfires anyway when they wake up and realize what they have done and suddenly need to flee.  We won't see that with David so clearly unless Ashley reciprocates and he suddenly realizes that he has to honor that commitment.  As long as she is running away from him he has nothing to run away from and can continue to believe he is sincere and would follow through on the commitment.

[Snarklepuss]

Sean was, no one knew about BR until the reunion show.

 

On Sean being vilified on Social Media but not Basement Ryan - No one knew except us very observant people here on this board who had Basement Ryan's number long before the reunion show!

[qtpye]

On Sean being vilified on Social Media but not Basement Ryan - No one knew except us very observant people here on this board who had Basement Ryan's number long before the reunion show!

 

 

The show really hid Basement Ryan's douchebaggery well.  I think the only hint that I got was when Jackie and Ryan were cleaning and Jackie jumped into his arms with joy (she was very much an all or nothing type girl who wore her heart on her sleeve) and Ryan's face looked like he wanted to run away.

 

Still, I can not believe the show did not tell us that Ryan did not feed her cat while she was away, after promising to do so.  Whatever, you feel about someone you do not let an innocent animal starve (thank God Jackie's friend was there to pick up the slack).  You could tell she was done with him after that, but the experts pushed her back into the relationship with a man who had no interest in her.

Edited February 1, 2016 by qtpye

[kira28]

 

My issue with Ashley is that she's not trying.  She's not the only person involved, her not trying hurts David.  A  man who of all of the six brides/grooms is the one that is most thrilled to be married.  He's giving it his all.... I know Ashley's friend said David spends time on his phone off -camera.... don't we all?  Ashley was glued to hers on their honeymoon ON camera.   She's got a good guy there, he's nice, got good friends, a good job..... comes home at night rather than going out. cooks.   I don't know what expectations she has for a spouse, but realistically speaking, David's a good catch.  I think she goes for the bad guys, and has always skipped over the others.

 

She's not married to an actor playing a role, she's married to a real person.  Possibly the only one of the six that is really wearing his heart on his sleeve and will suffer when this is all over.

Totally agree! I understand Ashley not being attracted to David. This makes her shallow but its not wrong for her to feel that way. My issue with her is that she is a straight up bitch to David. She couldn't say three nice things. I could come up with three simple (throwaway) nice things about a coworker I dislike if I had to! At first I thought she was just an introvert and unsure of what to say. but my god, she acts like she has no social skills at all. But when David's good looking friend came over she hugged him (something she doesn't even do with her husand) and was making eye contact, conversation etc like a normal person!  David seems to be the one guy out of the three who is most interested in finding a wife and Ashley can't even be polite to the man who is PAYING HER BILLS and letting her live in that nice house. She doesn't have to make out with him but at least treat him courteously.

 

Sam is a lunatic. NO idea who would ever want to date her after seeing this.  I don't find Neil attractive (I guess, like Ashley I have a type and Neil isn't it) but he's ten times better looking than Sam is. Sam always looks so messy and almost like she smells. Tres and Vaness.. meh.. they will probably stay together  then break up a few months later.

Edited February 2, 2016 by kira28

[Snarklepuss]

The show really hid Basement Ryan's douchebaggery well.  I think the only hint that I got was when Jackie and Ryan were cleaning and Jackie jumped into his arms with joy (she was very much an all or nothing type girl who wore her heart on her sleeve) and Ryan face looked like he wanted to run away.

 

Still, I can not believe the show did not tell us that Ryan did not feed her cat while she was away, after promising to do so.  Whatever, you feel about someone you do not let an innocent animal starve (thank God Jackie's friend was there to pick up the slack).  You could tell she was done with him after that, but the experts pushed her back into the relationship with a man who had no interest in her.

 

Jaclyn was a trooper.  She continued to go on with the charade despite knowing Ryan was a no-go.  She did an even better job of hiding her unhappiness than David is this season.  It's sad, and I feel sorry for her.  That said, there was a noticeable change in Ryan after they had sex.   Suddenly his body language changed and he was whining and moaning non-stop about the distance from his family.  I knew right then and there that he was starting to pull away from her, and his image also changed on the board here as I recall.  People were starting to call him "Basement Ryan" and a "Mama's boy".  People even speculated that perhaps Jaclyn was smothering him.  Actually, it was the opposite, he was just not into her nor being married.  Of course we didn't find out the full extent of it until the reunion show and what came out on Social Media.  That's why I don't read desperation or being too aggressive into David's behavior - I don't think he's to blame for Ashley's reticence.  I think it's the other way around and he looks like he's pushing too hard because she is just stone-cold not into him or the marriage.

[DangerousMinds]

Jack Sampson

We're Sean & Basement Ryan hated in social media like Ashley is this year?

If so, I am wrong about public opinion. I thought this wave of hatred towards Ashley was unprecedented.

They were here on Previously TV, yes.

[Gator Stud]

Jaclyn was a trooper.  She continued to go on with the charade despite knowing Ryan was a no-go.  She did an even better job of hiding her unhappiness than David is this season.  It's sad, and I feel sorry for her.  That said, there was a noticeable change in Ryan after they had sex.   Suddenly his body language changed and he was whining and moaning non-stop about the distance from his family.  I knew right then and there that he was starting to pull away from her, and his image also changed on the board here as I recall.  People were starting to call him "Basement Ryan" and a "Mama's boy".  People even speculated that perhaps Jaclyn was smothering him.  Actually, it was the opposite, he was just not into her

He seemed really into her right before they had sex. Which begs the question, was the sex a turn off for him, for some reason? What other explanation could be offered to explain how fast his demeanor changed? I guess we will never know.

[qtpye]

I think when he saw her walk down the aisle he was very attracted to her physically.  However, once that wore off, I think he could not handle her.

 

I love Jacklyn, but some people thought she gave off a very manly energy.  A woman can be strong, but (according to that genius, Patti Stringer) she needs to be feminine to attract hetro guys.

 

Or, it could be just that he wanted to bang her and then get rid of her.

 

However, she is a strong contrast to Ashley who does not even try with a much more sincere guy.

[MsPH]

I can't hate on Basement Ryan. I think he tried, but it was just a bad match from the beginning. Their personalities were such polar opposites, not to mention the distance, which was ridiculous. Why marry two people who live 2.5 hours apart and are both clearly very tied to their location? He just wasn't that into her at the end of the day and didn't think it was worth the hassle. I don't think he's a bad guy, just a bit of a wimp. He should've been more direct with her. I'm still confused about the cat thing, but surely she wouldn't have been heartbroken if he'd really left the cat to starve?

[henrysmom]

 

I do not enjoy Ashley and I think she was totally mis-cast...but....what else can she really do?

 

I think Ashley is afraid that any slight show of interest on her part will just encourage David so she just froze up and (I think) hoped he'd get the message.  I don't think she is going about it the right way--maybe the right way would have been, very early on, to sit him down and say that she really wasn't feeling a connection and didn't think this was going to work.  Maybe to ask him to slow down a bit because his intensity was making her nervous, or scaring her.

 

The trouble is that in relationships, even phony pretend tv ones like these, we rarely say the right thing at the right time.  And the other person rarely reacts the way we'd pictured they would.  Even if Ashley had been as pleasant and caring as you can possibly be when you are basically telling somebody you want nothing to do with them, David would have been hurt.

[Crazy Bird Lady]

I suppose we may all get a clearer picture of the participants' motivations and their 'triggers' tonight. 

 

I know that I'll enjoy watching them do what they do as a distraction from all the political stuff out there right now!

[qtpye]

I can't hate on Basement Ryan. I think he tried, but it was just a bad match from the beginning. Their personalities were such polar opposites, not to mention the distance, which was ridiculous. Why marry two people who live 2.5 hours apart and are both clearly very tied to their location? He just wasn't that into her at the end of the day and didn't think it was worth the hassle. I don't think he's a bad guy, just a bit of a wimp. He should've been more direct with her. I'm still confused about the cat thing, but surely she wouldn't have been heartbroken if he'd really left the cat to starve?

 

 

There is nothing wrong with not being into Jacklyn.  The problem was at the reunion show the experts strong armed Jacklyn into giving Ryan another chance.  He nodded along and pretended he was interested in having a relationship with her.  Before the reunion, Jacklyn had realized that he was not into her and was ready to move on.

 

Ryan agreed to meet Jacklyn for dinner.  He then never showed up, probably not caring about anything once he got the paycheck for the reunion.  This is craven and cruel behavior and he deserved all the hate that came his way as a result of said behavior.

 

The guy did not even have the decency to cancel the dinner date.  She sat at the restaurant waiting for him.  No one deserves to be treated like that.

Edited February 2, 2016 by qtpye

[MsPH]

How do we know she sat at the restaurant waiting for him? I must've missed that, because all I remember is her saying afterwards that the dinner they were supposed to go on never happened.

[qtpye]

How do we know she sat at the restaurant waiting for him? I must've missed that, because all I remember is her saying afterwards that the dinner they were supposed to go on never happened.

 

My memory might be faulty, so I do not know how much of this is right.  She sent out a picture of her sitting across from an empty chair (in a restaurant I think) and said something to the effect of "I guess I am eating dinner by myself, tonight.".  This is the night Ryan was supposed to meet her for dinner because he was so looking forward to "continuing" their marriage.

[amammata]

I am not sure what is more disturbing Sam or Ashley. I think Ashley. Sam  is a self centered child incapable to listen and more importantly to analyse herself in order to grow and improve. But at least is capable of establishing some level of friendship with people she deem honorable of being her friends. Ashley, in my opinion, is NOT capable of creating a relationship of any sort. She cannot become friend of David because she does not know how. I assume her friendship are based on shallow things and might not be deep at all, an example was that during her bachelorette party, her friends did not know what she would like or not. Looks like her friends did not know basic information about Ashley in order to throw a bachelorette party.  I am a woman that dated any color, shape and culture. I have dated guys that I did not have an instant attraction with and then fall in love with, and I have dated guys that I had not instant attraction and never got it. But I always dated amazing people that enriched my life. I created friendship till today and of course  I have also dated dbag ... realized after and are not my friend today. My point is that David, which btw I find attractive with an amazing smile and beautiful eyes, is a great man to get to know and be friend with, but Ashley cannot even be friend  or at least  be friendly with him. She just said she never had male friends and I can see that. I dont think she is ugly inside or outside, I thinks she is just incapable of creating any sort of real relationship, romantic or not. I am sorry for her, but on the bright side she does not know what she is missing out. PS my husband is black, religious, laid back and full of life and I am white, atheist, foreigner, extrovert and full of life. We are different but we complement each other and we both are joyfull. Ashely  is joyless, and Sam needs to find somebody else (not sure what species we are talking about) maybe when she will be more mature.

 

I fell sorry for both Neal and David, both kind men that did not get a chance, either because matched with a spoiled child that does not know how to relate to people, or because matched with an un-affective mate.

[Nffftshewasgone]

I am not sure what is more disturbing Sam or Ashley. I think Ashley. Sam is a self centered child incapable to listen and more importantly to analyse herself in order to grow and improve. But at least is capable of establishing some level of friendship with people she deem honorable of being her friends. Ashley, in my opinion, is NOT capable of creating a relationship of any sort. She cannot become friend of David because she does not know how. I assume her friendship are based on shallow things and might not be deep at all, an example was that during her bachelorette party, her friends did not know what she would like or not. Looks like her friends did not know basic information about Ashley in order to throw a bachelorette party. I am a woman that dated any color, shape and culture. I have dated guys that I did not have an instant attraction with and then fall in love with, and I have dated guys that I had not instant attraction and never got it. But I always dated amazing people that enriched my life. I created friendship till today and of course I have also dated dbag ... realized after and are not my friend today. My point is that David, which btw I find attractive with an amazing smile and beautiful eyes, is a great man to get to know and be friend with, but Ashley cannot even be friend or at least be friendly with him. She just said she never had male friends and I can see that. I dont think she is ugly inside or outside, I thinks she is just incapable of creating any sort of real relationship, romantic or not. I am sorry for her, but on the bright side she does not know what she is missing out. PS my husband is black, religious, laid back and full of life and I am white, atheist, foreigner, extrovert and full of life. We are different but we complement each other and we both are joyfull. Ashely is joyless, and Sam needs to find somebody else (not sure what species we are talking about) maybe when she will be more mature.

I fell sorry for both Neal and David, both kind men that did not get a chance, either because matched with a spoiled child that does not know how to relate to people, or because matched with an un-affective mate.

GREAT POST!

I agree with you, wholeheartedly.

[amammata]

Ashley is bad in math: her 100% looks like 0.01 %

Ashley is bad in English: when she says  "overthinking"  is thinking. Barely

Edited February 16, 2016 by amammata