All Episodes Talk: Breadstix

[camussie]

Sam will ALWAYS annoy me because he was brought on as Finn 2.0 the very first episode of season 2 and then proceeded to tear Finn down while they built Sam up.  To this day I don't know why a Finn 2.0 was needed at that point, given where Finn ended season 1 (being the only one not ready to give up and encouraging Rachel to do the same).  

 

Now he annoys me even more because of heavy handed anvil Sam is the new Finn sell in "City of Angels."  

 

Add on to that, that I simply find Chord the least engaging actor on the show.  

[Sara2009]

I think Jenna is the worst of anybody.

[jaytee1812]

I think Jenna is the worst of anybody.

 

I love Jenna. I actually didn't mention her in my longish post because I just sound like Jenna/Tina stan (which I am). But I actually can't explain it, I just think she's awesome. She so awesome I actually repeatedly watch 'Jumpin' Jumpin'' despite the Darren/Chord horror show around her. 

[caracas1914]

I think Jenna is the worst of anybody.

 

Probably, though Amber was pretty bad back in Season 1 when they would let her have a deep "acting" scene.

 

Darren can still have some brutally bad days, the whole creepy "He's mine so back off" with Adam Lambert in Season 5 was so jarring and scary creepy over the top  because it was soo "dramatic"  I half expected him to send Elliot Starchild a boiled rabbit.  Plus his voice overs are soo bad, "overacting" in voice over is not a good sign.  Which is the opposite of Dianna, her voice overs seemed almost comatose to me.

Edited November 19, 2014 by caracas1914

[jaytee1812]

Sam will ALWAYS annoy me because he was brought on as Finn 2.0 the very first episode of season 2 and then proceeded to tear Finn down while they built Sam up.  To this day I don't know why a Finn 2.0 was needed at that point, given where Finn ended season 1 (being the only one not ready to give up and encouraging Rachel to do the same).  

 

Now he annoys me even more because of heavy handed anvil Sam is the new Finn sell in "City of Angels."  

 

Add on to that, that I simply find Chord the least engaging actor on the show.  

 

Yeah, I never got that logic, 'we have a great lead character, lets bring on someone just like him, but have him played by an worse singer and actor with no charisma, also make that character much more stupid.' 

 

I know Puck and Finn were always portrayed as stupid but unlike Sam and Brittany I never feared for them around sharp objects. 

Probably, though Amber was pretty bad back in Season 1 when they would let her have a deep "acting" scene.

 

Darren can still have some brutally bad days, the whole creepy "He's mine so back off" with Adam Lambert in Season 5 was so jarring and scary creepy over the top  because it was soo "dramatic"  I half expected him to send Elliot Starchild a boiled rabbit.  Plus his voice overs are soo bad, "overacting" in voice over is not a good sign.  Which is the opposite of Dianna, her voice overs seemed almost comatose to me.

 

When it comes to the women no-one is as bad as Heather. 

[caracas1914]

When it comes to the women no-one is as bad as Heather.

 

 

Well , yes, but...again, we are talking Heather who proudly says the showrunners  and writers discouraged her from taking acting classes...

[camussie]

Yeah, I never got that logic, 'we have a great lead character, lets bring on someone just like him, but have him played by an worse singer and actor with no charisma, also make that character much more stupid.

 

 

And proceed to tear down the original lead character.  For example in "Duets" and "Furt" they pointedly had Sam doing the right thing and Finn doing the wrong thing even though it seemed Finn had turned that corner with Kurt back in "Theatricality."  Although I will forever be annoyed in "Furt" that everyone seemed to consider it Finn's responsibility to protect Kurt, never mind that Karofsky had bullied him as well (took his expensive letter jacket and tore it in half) 

 

I know Puck and Finn were always portrayed as stupid but unlike Sam and Brittany I never feared for them around sharp objects.

 

 

I never thought Puck was stupid.  Just unmotivated i.e. one of those people who didn't see the point of school so he put no effort towards it.  To me he had the classic entrepreneur personality.  

 

As for Finn he was academically stupid in season 1 but I think he evolved out of that as seasons went on.  He was never going to be brilliant but he wasn't Brittany levels of dumb by season 3.   

Edited November 19, 2014 by camussie

[jaytee1812]

Well , yes, but...again, we are talking Heather who proudly says the showrunners  and writers discouraged her from taking acting classes...

 

What? Oh my... If their was one person on the cast who could use it. 

[Sara2009]

Heather cries well, though. I'll give her that.

I think she worked well as a supporting player in season 1. She just can't carry a story line.

[jaytee1812]

And proceed to tear down the original lead character.  For example in "Duets" and "Furt" they pointedly had Sam doing the right thing and Finn doing the wrong thing even though it seemed Finn had turned that corner with Kurt back in "Theatricality."  Although I will forever be annoyed in "Furt" that everyone seemed to consider it Finn's responsibility to protect Kurt, never mind that Karofsky had bullied him as well (took his expensive letter jacket and tore it in half) 

 

I think that was supposed to be so they could build Finn up again, which they sort of did in the back half of season 2 (although made him look like a gigantic ass in doing so). 

Heather cries well, though. I'll give her that.

I think she worked well as a supporting player in season 1. She just can't carry a story line.

 

I think when she has a natural reaction it's fine, but when she has to act... Oh boy. 

 

I think this may be just me, but I find it odd when great dancers are bad actors. 

[camussie]

If you count "Funeral" as building Finn up again but they went too far before that to make it an effective re-build.  This goes back to the show not knowing nuance.  For example they still could have had Finn refuse to fight the others to protect Kurt in "Furt" but his reasoning could have been that he sees football as his one shot at a scholarship and he didn't want to endanger that (which would have been a good precursor to how Cooter telling him he has no chance at one really made him feel lost in season 3). Then have Sam step in and be the big hero and Finn feel still feel guilty.  

Edited November 19, 2014 by camussie

[wingster55]

Re: Sam as Finn 2.0...honestly that was one of the "rivalries" the show tried to have in s2...but never really embraced (at least not fully).

Like Rachel and Mercedes or Rachel and Kurt in s1 (the former which continued on to s3) s2 played around with Finn vs Sam as well as Quinn vs Santana.

[Petunia13]

I'm glad Cory was mentioned. I too felt he was the strongest actor among the kids as the heat of the show and choir. Finn was my favorite character, then Shue and I think a lot of that was due to their likability the actors put into the roles. When Cory passed it totally changed my feelings about the show, because a lot of why I watch was his journey was interesting and he was a bit more realistic and earnest than the rest of the cast.

[tom87]

I think Jenna is the worst of anybody.

I Agree too.  My Funny Valentine remains cringe worthy to me and the Blam + Tina scenes are brutal.

 

 

When it comes to the women no-one is as bad as Heather. 

 

I use to have to put on close captioning to understand what Heather was trying to say.

[fakeempress]

What I find ironic is that what others criticize (not necessarily you Casmussie) , usually Klainers, about Chris acting, ie that he doesn't show puppy dog in love with Blaine in scenes actually reinforces to  me what a good actor he is.

 

Kurt is wary, defensive and and bit confused with the SL's with Blaine, especially as his character has to wade through the needy insecurities of his fiance.  So it makes no sense to me that Kurt would be all happy in love giddy when neither the scripts nor SL's portray their relationship (from his POV) that way.   It's tricky, because even the show kept returning back to the cheating SL with Kurt with references and jokes.  The writers have made the character somewhat  guarded and ambivalent  and definitely not some naive teenage boy in love.

I so agree with all this, and I think the bolded is key and sometimes overlooked. If you consider how let's say the Klaine story unfolds from Kurt's POV and step into his shoes, Chris was quite on point. 

 

Broad strokes, for me Lea, Chis, Cory, Matt, Naya, Jayma, Jane, Dot, Romy, Mike O'M are the strong cast - as actors. They can take the crappiest lines and make them sound convincing or at least more normal. They are dynamic, engaging, believably expressive, and as a rule don't take me out of a scene or make me notice they're acting.

 

The weakest bunch for me are Jenna, Heather and Chord (there'll be more if I add the newbies and Glee project peeps). Jenna is a lovely singer and may be better suited for the stage, but on screen her line readings are often awful, and she hasn't improved as an actress over the course of the show which for me hints at real limitations. I think the only scene I really loved her in was when Tina was recounting her first time. However, Heather and Chord are worse offenders in that they are shoved down my throat as if they're god's gift to acting and I should deeply care for their characters. 

 

The rest fall at various stages of hit and miss. Some are more stagnant, while for instance Amber was bad to start with, but has shown real improvement, and I quite liked her last season. 

Edited November 19, 2014 by fakeempress

[camussie]

To her credit Amber's acting improved so much over the years.  I thought Mercedes telling Sam why she wasn't ready to sleep with him was one of the best written and acted scenes of last season.

 

I also have to shout out to Kevin.  I have said that Matt is the one true triple threat on the cast but I think Kevin is the next closest to that.  He is a wonderful singer and dancer (although he didn't get to showcase it that much) and he is a solid actor.  That I rarely saw him break the physicality of his character from wheelchair bound is a testament to that.  One particular time stands out.  When they did "Jump" in "Mattresses" Artie was flopping on the bed in one part of the song and Kevin managed stay in character so that it looked like his legs were completely paralyzed.  

Edited November 19, 2014 by camussie

[Sara2009]

Agreed.Kevin isn't in the top tier of actors, but he's definitely competent IMO. He never takes me out of a scene.

[tom87]

Kevin has always been pretty good.

 

I think Amber has improved the most.  I have actually liked her dramatic scene with Rachel the  most tbh and not because I like Rachel.    I really like their scene about Prom dates and in the car during Night of Neglect.  I also like their exchanges in season 5.

 

Side bar:  I do not find Chord's impressions funny.

[camussie]

My favorite Mercedes combo was Mercedes/Quinn.  I still think it should have been Mercedes who really connected with Quinn when Lauren was tormenting her with the Lucy Caboosey stuff.  It would have been a good follow up to when Quinn helped Mercedes see that she didn't need to starve herself to be beautiful  in season 1.  

[jaytee1812]

I like Kevin, but I completely object to him being cast as Artie. That part should've gone to a disabled actor.

[fakeempress]

My favorite Mercedes combo was Mercedes/Quinn.  I still think it should have been Mercedes who really connected with Quinn when Lauren was tormenting her with the Lucy Caboosey stuff.  It would have been a good follow up to when Quinn helped Mercedes see that she didn't need to starve herself to be beautiful  in season 1.  

Another missed opportunity for the sake of the forced Rachel-Quinn "friendship". That Mercedes took Quinn in was promptly forgotten, as was Sam living with the Hummels etc. story threads.

 

 

Side bar:  I do not find Chord's impressions funny.

Me neither, and they all sound the same to me. 

[caracas1914]

Considering the insanely brutal hours that Glee put on the first few seasons, I would imagine they thought it would put a lot of physical stress on a disabled person. 12 plus hour working days as "normal" as I recall.

Having said that, they would have been sending a true message of inclusion with that.

[Craphole Island]

It's funny how subjective acting is, because aside from Cory and Chris, Chord would be who I rank next as far as the "kid" actors. I've always enjoyed his dramatic turns ("City of Angels", "Naked", "Rumours") and his comedy on the show. He hasn't been helped much by how they write for Sam, but I think he does his best with it all. Oh, Kevin would rank with them too. Harry was never given much to do, but he was always fine. Now, Mark and Darren? I don't think either are terrible but when they're bad, they're REALLY bad IMO. And I love Mark/Puck. Darren is just too OTT all the time IMO. He's either melodramatic in his drama or obnoxious in his comedy. But I don't think he's terrible or anything, it's just too much sometimes. 

 

Lea and Naya are tops for the girls, and while Dianna seems to be polarizing I always enjoy her. I'd probably rank Jenna last overall though. And I hate to do it because she seems like a sweet girl, and she certainly has NOT been helped by the writing of Tina or the treatment of Tina, but yeah. Heather and Amber don't really do much for me acting wise one way or the other. They're fine. Amber's improved a lot I think.

[caracas1914]

Jayma is for me the best actress or actor on the show, par excellence.

 

She can do drama or comedy equally well, her timing  is always impeccable.  Just as good in comedy as Jane Lynch, and just as good in heavy dramatic as Chris Colfer.  I can't think of any Glee actor who over matches her in scenes at all.  Rather she plays well against  a variety of acting types around her on Glee.

Edited November 20, 2014 by caracas1914

[tom87]

I thought Quinn and Mercedes was totally out of the blue and at that time didn't think either were very good acting wise so I saw no connection.  Plus Quinn only lived there a few months.   But I thought Quinn and Rachel was extremely force especially  in later seasons.  I still  never understood why either would liked the other one. Quinn never seemed to  have anyhting but disdain for Rachel  yet Rachel acted like Quinn was wonderful. 

 

One of the dumbest lines ever uttered on glee was when Rachel said one of her biggest accomplishment was being Quinn's friend. WTF????

 

 

I like Jayma's kind of quirky comedic style.   I think she has a certain style as much as Jane does. 

Edited November 20, 2014 by tom87

[fakeempress]

One of the dumbest lines ever uttered on glee was when Rachel said one of her biggest accomplishment was being Quinn's friend. WTF????

I legit shouted and cursed at the screen during that scene. Rachel's grovelling for acceptance by Quinn which the show painted as some epic friendship, was something I could never get past. 

[tom87]

I legit shouted and cursed at the screen during that scene. Rachel's grovelling for acceptance by Quinn which the show painted as some epic friendship, was something I could never get past. 

Did you even see the deleted Bridal Shop scene where Quinn was all designate about Rachel marrying Finn?   I still do not understand why Quinn would care.  Rachel who said she admire Quinn so mcuh never once took any of her advice  so it was just a weird off balance.

Did you even see the deleted Bridal Shop scene where Quinn was all indignant about Rachel marrying Finn?   I still do not understand why Quinn would care.  Rachel who said she admire Quinn so much never once took any of her advice  anyway.      The freindship had no balance.

[coolbeans3131]

I don't think Chord is the weakest actor on the show. To me, he is just so blah and has no business being a lead. He has a small range and a fine but forgettable voice. He should have been a third tier character.

 

I think Darren's Blaine should have been a second tier character. He is also very limited, but he has more screen presence than Chord. He also has a limited range, in both acting ability and voice. Some things he does very well, it's just that he is given too many things that he can't do well.

 

Look, I'm a huge Chris Colfer stan, but you won't see me saying he can sing any kind of song or act any kind of scene. He does what he does well, and they stuck pretty well to that. I mean, they overused the fact that he cries well early on, and then seemed to forget about that fact later on when it could have come in handy.

 

Why couldn't the show runners just let each actor do what they do best? Heather should have been left to her witty one-liners, etc... Sigh, why couldn't the show runners just not be short sighted hacks?

[fakeempress]

Did you even see the deleted Bridal Shop scene where Quinn was all designate about Rachel marrying Finn?   I still do not understand why Quinn would care.  Rachel who said she admire Quinn so mcuh never once took any of her advice  so it was just a weird off balance.

I'm glad I've managed to miss that gem. 

 

 

He is also very limited, but he has more screen presence than Chord.

I agree. Some things Darren's fine with, but within a narrow range. I haven't seen him on stage, but I just saw the Funny or Die clip and he has no business doing broad comedy on any small screen, the OTT of it all just screams stage actor. When I saw him in the Kristen Wiig movie , I thought he can be better served for the screen with more naturalistic characters and strong direction since he has a certain charisma. There he played himself slacker style so it worked for the most part, but when it came to the comedic shit-scared scene towards the end he couldn't find the balance. 

[tom87]

I'm glad I've managed to miss that gem. 

 

I agree. Some things Darren's fine with, but within a narrow range. I haven't seen him on stage, but I just saw the Funny or Die clip and he has no business doing broad comedy on any small screen, the OTT of it all just screams stage actor. When I saw him in the Kristen Wiig movie , I thought he can be better served for the screen with more naturalistic characters and strong direction since he has a certain charisma. There he played himself slacker style so it worked for the most part, but when it came to the comedic shit-scared scene towards the end he couldn't find the balance. 

I just saw that funny or die bit and was like is he purposely going over broad?  I can't figure out is it was intention or just that bad.

[Petunia13]

I like Kevin, but I completely object to him being cast as Artie. That part should've gone to a disabled actor.

Agreed! And it was monumentally stupid to cast one of the best dancers on the show as a paralyzed teen.

SO...I rewatch the first 3 seasons often but decided to suck it up and rewatch season 4. Holy shit whoever decided to make Britanny/Heather and Sam/Chord leads needs to be taken out to the woodshed and taught a lesson.

First of all the 2 characters are not that interesting to warrant the screen time and second they suck at acting. But tha would have been forgiven if they didn't sing. Holy shit- on the Hole song Brit and Sam sang that was the worst rendition of a song I ever heard. It was embarrassing!

Edited November 21, 2014 by Petunia13

[LydiaMoon1]

I could never bring myself to watch season 4. It's a decision I've never regretted.

[SevenStars]

Cory, Matt and Chris are the strongest actors with Kevin being good,while Chord and Darren are do-able depending on what they are giving to do.

 

 I think Amber has improve the most out everyone else. Lea, Naya, Jayma, Dot, and Jane are great. Diana is okay but I honestly think that people give her more credit base on her look, not so much her talent. This is why I don't credit her great acting as the reason people love Quinn, I think her look played a part in that regard.

 

Heather and Jenna are in the bottom for me.

[jaytee1812]

I think of those left behind at McKinley in season 4 Jenna was the most talented and did the best with the worst writing.

I think it shows how racist and sexist this show is that Tina and Jake weren't the leaders of New Directions given that Jenna and Jacob Artist were the most talented in the room, and with Becca Tobin the only actual all-rounders.

[Petunia13]

UO but I hate Kitty she's a demented bitch and ugly. They tried to merge Santana with Quinn except as a butter face with no reason to be around those she harasses except for psychosis. She had no story and what she added to stories sucked. But she could sing, that don't warrant her being involved though.

LOL at de-aged Blaine singing and carrying on about senior yr. mornings at McKinley with that face of coffee ground stubble, crinkly eyes, and pompadour. He looks like Don Drapers slightly younger brother. GMAFB!!!

Becky sucks. Sue is pointless. Will looks great them leaves immediately!

[Sara2009]

I don't think we should attack the actors' physical appearances. It's unnecessary.

I don't think Becca is a very good singer, though. She's a great actress and good dancer, but her singing doesn't stand out to me.

[Petunia13]

I critiqued the *characters* looks a character who bashed everyone's looks indicting she was some ten. Which she's not, she looks strange to me like a pug. Also it's pretty common on like hundreds on threads here for many to comment negatively on a character or actor or reality show stars looks.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Petunia13

[jaytee1812]

I critiqued the *characters* looks a character who bashed everyone's looks indicting she was some ten. Which she's not, she looks strange to me like a pug. Also it's pretty common on like hundreds on threads here for many to comment negatively on a character or actor or reality show stars looks.

As much as actor may look slighlty different when portraying a character, I mean Kevin can walk, Darren doesn't use all the hair gel in the developed world, Jacob smiles, they still look like the same person. Saying Kitty is ugly is saying Becca is ugly which is blatantly untrue. Though if your saying the character traits make her less attractive then although I disagree where Kityy is concerned I feel that with other characters.

[Petunia13]

That's not "blatantly untrue." Last I checked opinions on looks are subjective.

And for a character who was acting like hot shit and bashing everyone's looks I expected someone IMHO attractive. I'm surprised I'm getting this reaction and singled out I mean this is very typical and status quo for posters to say a character or real person not attractive look at the Kardassian threads or any of the soap threads or True Tori discussion.

If I'm honest I don't think many of the characters are good looking. A lot look weird to me.

They kept saying my fave character Finn was hot the first 2 seasons and the other half of the time fat. IMHO he wasn't hot until the 4th season just averse but age did him well : ) and was never fat! Rachel was never even slightly pudgy either. Sams only a good body, face was NO so I don't get the modeling thing. Mike Chang is smoking hot. Emma looks like a bird.

[tom87]

Ha Kitty is the only newbie I liked.

 

I do not think the high pony did any of them any favors tbh, but none of them were ugly either.

[LydiaMoon1]

I tend to enjoy discussion boards that critique character actions/motivations, writing/production, and storyline rather than appearance.  I try to avoid talking about how a character or actor looks (unless it's something positive).  Unless you're in a site where everyone shares the same opinion, conversations about actors looks too often devolve into an ugly back and forth between people defending their faves (at least in my experience).  I don't find that kind of thing to be enjoyable and I try to avoid those sites.

[Cranberry]

It's not against the rules to say that you find an actor ugly.

 

It may not lead to a fun discussion in this group, which should be apparent to you now! Know your audience. ;)

[jaytee1812]

I was watching the new show Cristela and they were talking about West Side Story. Cristela described it as 'a show about Latinos, usually not played by Latinos.' All I could think of was Rachel, Puck, Tina and Rory in Glee's version of West Side Story.

[Sara2009]

Besides Naya, the only people in the cast who can actually sing those songs in the traditional way are Amber, Matt, and Chris. How sad is it that none of them got to sing a WSS song?

[jaytee1812]

I still think Kurt not playing Tony was dumb. Also dumb, having a character played by a Central American immigrant playing one of the Jets.

I would like to have had Will more involved in WSS, if only to have less Artie. That was the start of him creeping me out.

Edited November 25, 2014 by jtrattray

[Sara2009]

The writers probably would've had Will be unintentionally offensive so I'm sort of glad he was spared during the " Tony" debacle.

On the other hand, his voice would've sounded like gold on some of those songs.

I don't think any of the " Glee" guys are a great fit for the actual role, though. Matt and Chris have the voices for it, but I'm not sure I'd buy either of them as a gang member.

Edited November 25, 2014 by Sara2009

[jaytee1812]

I don't think any of the " Glee" guys are a great fit for the actual role, though. Matt and Chris have the voices for it, but I'm not sure I'd buy either of them as a gang member.

Meh, I don't really buy Richard Beymer as a gang member either. I've seen a few actors who've played Tony who look like they couldn't fight sleep.

I do think it's funny that on the show they ended up in roles where Blaine was suppose to win a fight against Puck!

Btw, you've got me listening to Matthew Morrison's West Side Story Medley.

[Sara2009]

I love Matt's voice on the Tony songs( what little we get of them anyway.)

[Petunia13]

I finished rewatching season 4. I only saw it once on its original airing live. I think well I could write an essay, ha, but my main thoughts are the bad parts are very bad and the good spots are enjoyable. I liked Marley her singing and background and some of te zingers were good and Rachel looked fab and Kurt is a doll. So it's not complete shit. Is it Glee ? The show I loved for 3 seasons and still love, no. Not even close. I think that was the beginning of the end where I was like what the fuck is happening to my darling, then Cory died and the show, IMHO could never, ever rebound from that. It's hard for me as a viewer who still loves the show and work he and everyone put in to watch episodes after his passing and old ones but I do.

Back to season 4 the newbies aren't that bad they have singing and dancing chops but it takes me out of it when the songs are so auto tuned in some parts it's redic (Sam, Brit, Cassandra), insane story lines ! ! -seriously deranged story lines, and lack of focus on the core four.

Did I mention season fours storylines were crazier than a shit house rat? Cuz they were!!!

Edited November 26, 2014 by Petunia13

[Casual Viewing]

I finished rewatching season 4. I only saw it once on its original airing live...Did I mention season fours storylines were crazier than a shit house rat? Cuz they were!!!

I enjoyed the episode "The Breakup" in Season4 but for most of the season I only watched the NY scenes. Actually I basically checked out of Glee in season 3 with the episode "I kissed a girl " and only came back to watch Groff's brief appearances in the season. I doubt I will ever watch seasons 3 thru 5 in their entirety as I'm 1) not that much of a masochist and 2) if I didn' t see it I can pretend it didn't happen and therefore it isn't canon. :-)

I'll probably only be able to watch season 6 if I can convince myself that it is taking place in an alternate universe Glee.