All Episodes Talk: Breadstix

[jaytee1812]

Well, we know for sure that she scored the highest SAT score in McKinley history. Sue and Sam were both in that scene. It's true that no one else was in her MIT scenes, but given that they take place in Boston away from everyone, plus her SAT score, plus the fact that she did leave high school early, plus her always doing insane math problems/chess/whatever that S1-S4 Brittany would have never done, I'd say the MIT thing was legit.

 

We also know that she had a legion of Latino fans asking for her autograph immediately after she aired an episode of Fondue for Two (which Santana watched) where she said Univision bought 2 seasons of the show.

 

Just because it's unrealistic, doesn't mean it isn't canon. It's Glee. Everything is unrealistic.

 

If we believe everything Brittany says then she was raped and none of the other girls, including Santana cared. 

 

I'm sure the Latino fans saw her online, remember it wasn't just Santana in that sex tape! She may have been part of an MIT experiment but I don't think it was her brains behind it. I think she was a test subject. 

 

Brittany reminds me of something Cookie says in Empire: 

 

"Of course she's smart. Pretty White girls always are, even when they aren't."

[Ceeg]

Your reading of those scenes is what I'd call headcanon. 

 

I don't believe everything Brittany says, word for word. But I do think MIT and Queso Por Dos are legit, as they have been referenced numerous times and supported by other evidence in canon.

Edited March 7, 2015 by Ceeg

[jaytee1812]

Your reading of those scenes is what I'd call headcanon. 

 

I don't believe everything Brittany says, word for word. But I do think MIT and Queso Por Dos are legit, as they have been referenced numerous times and supported by other evidence.

 

In The First Time she says she woke up to someone having sex with her. In Saturday Night Gleever she put a sex tape of her and Santana online. How is that head canon?

[Ceeg]

In The First Time she says she woke up to someone having sex with her. In Saturday Night Gleever she put a sex tape of her and Santana online. How is that head canon?

 

I said "your reading" of those scenes is headcanon. You are saying her Latino fans were asking for her autograph because of the sex tape. That is not backed up by canon. Brittany is standing in the hallway, signing pictures of her doing Queso Por Dos, she says, in Spanish, that Queso Por Dos was picked up for 2 more seasons, and her Latino fans cheer.  This directly follows a scene in which she says that Univsion bought Queso Por Dos. Literally nothing about that scene suggests they are asking for her autograph because of a sex tape. So, your reading of that scene (i.e. Latino fans wanting her autograph bc of the sex tape) is headcanon.

 

As for her saying she was raped, she never said that. Nor did she say she was asleep. She said "I lost my virginity at cheer camp. He climbed into my tent, alien invasion."  And while that could imply something unpleasant happened, in the literal sense, she never says she was raped and she didn't seem to care it happened. This was never addressed again. So, since Brittany never explicitly said she was raped, no one had any reaction to it, and it was never spoken of again, I have to assume that the writers did not intend for me to think she was raped.

 

Also, you saying that she was an experiment at MIT isn't backed up by what we've repeatedly seen in canon. Which is why I said it's headcanon for you. Which is fine, you can have whatever headcanon you want. But, it's not backed up by textual proof.

Edited March 7, 2015 by Ceeg

[jaytee1812]

I do tend to see those things through the gaze of Brittany being the worst human being on any TV show I've ever watched. Closely followed by Sam. 

[ComfySweater]

I do tend to see those things through the gaze of Brittany being the worst human being on any TV show I've ever watched. Closely followed by Sam. 

Did you miss that time Buffy got a random sister? Yes, I'll show myself out.

[SeanC]

Also, what you said about Abuela. I mean, her whole cluelessness about her future never got tied up (minus a line about going to college out of the blue). But considering what they've done to everyone else who has had more screen time, I'm ok with that and I'll head canon her future.

One of the things that very quickly became apparent to me in season 4 is that the writers have no particular vision for or interest in the futures of any of the characters other than Rachel, so a satisfying resolution to Santana's personal life, which is the only real story she's ever got, is about as much as I would have hoped for.

[jaytee1812]

Did you miss that time Buffy got a random sister? Yes, I'll show myself out.

 

I genuinely Lol'd at that. 

[Ceeg]

One of the things that very quickly became apparent to me in season 4 is that the writers have no particular vision for or interest in the futures of any of the characters other than Rachel, so a satisfying resolution to Santana's personal life, which is the only real story she's ever got, is about as much as I would have hoped for.

 

I think I'm gonna headcanon that she becomes a publicist. It kind of seems that's what they were thinking about doing after that Broadway Barks episode. But then Mercedes+Brittana went on that mall tour, and her stint as a publicist was never spoken of again.

[Glorfindel]

^The Broadway Barks storyline was in the episode Chris wrote, so I doubt the regular writers wanted that for Santana (or even remember it).

Santana becoming a publicist would be awesome though.

[Ceeg]

^The Broadway Barks storyline was in the episode Chris wrote, so I doubt the regular writers wanted that for Santana (or even remember it).

Santana becoming a publicist would be awesome though.

 

Yeah, I thought that was actually a pretty good idea for Santana's future. It puts her in the entertainment industry, but also uses her ability to manipulate and read people really well. And, like all publicists, she can be a pushy bitch, so it'd be the perfect fit for her. Especially since, even though for 2 seasons Santana was obsessed with being a "star", I don't think pursuing stardom at all costs ever really made her happy. So, thanks Chris for my headcanon!

[ComfySweater]

Santana would be a completely terrifying publicist. I like it, but I would not like to be her enemy. She would rule whatever she wants.

[tab19]

I'm by no means an expert - but is the dancing worse this year?  I know Seasons 1-3 were apparently much more rehearsed, so maybe the drop-off occurred in Seasons 4-5 and I just didn't notice because I was not a regular viewer, but wow.  Or maybe it's because there's no really terrific dancer (like Heather, Harry or Jacob) to keep me from noticing the less accomplished dancers.  I usually don't care, but I've actually been taken out of a few numbers by the dancing - in particular Roderick and even Spencer (that's the gay dick athlete, right?).  (Or maybe i just don't like Spencer)

[ancslove]

They seem to be doing more stage blocking with the occasional synchronized arm movements, than actual choreography.  The Cheerios will do some tricks, while everyone else seems to be just hitting their next mark.  For me, it's the spotlighted free styling (see Uptown Funk) that shows the actors' dance limitations.  Roderick can follow blocking, but he really can't dance.  Spencer doesn't pull me out of a performance, but that's all I can really say about him.  His voice has grown on me, though.  Madison and Mason can move more naturally, and Jane and Kitty can actually dance.  

 

One thing I noticed in some of the wider shots of the group performances, is that they are often positioned too close to the back of the stage.  In Cool Kids, they had the whole front of the stage bare, while they were clustered in the back.  They needed to bring the whole piece forward.

[jaytee1812]

It's not just the dancing that's dropped in quality this season the choreography has too. I think there's a number of reasons behind that.

They don't have the quality of dancer they had in the past. The ND basically have Kitty, the other girls are decent but not at her level. The guys are to a man, awful. It was bordering on comedy in Rather Be when Mason tried to do acrobatics.

It's looked all season like the choreographer has given up and gone home. Even when he had good dancers like in Wishin and Hopin, which was basically just Heather and Kevin, and had Kevin out of the wheelchair, the choreography was basic and uninspiring. I'm neither actors biggest fan but they are both able to perform more complex choreography.

And when they have had the great dancers back like Harry and Jenna they haven't danced.

I also think they haven't had the time or inclination to polish routines. I watched Problem back for the comedy value because the UHT are all over the place. Same for I'm So Excited, it's a trainwreck.

[Ceeg]

The choreography has been terrible for a while now, and I think it started around season 4. Naya even threw shade at it a few years ago in an interview with Vulture:

 

 

 

It’s funny because Lea and I have been getting insanely jealous of the new New Directions because at the end of every episode they get to do a fun number where they just, like, run around. Like, free-form rock-out! We never got to do that! [...] When we were in New Directions we had like six-hour dance rehearsals. It was very rigid. Now they’re literally just running around with balloons. [Laughs.]

[Craphole Island]

I don't notice the dancing much usually. Like, I appreciate the people who are great dancers and love when they can show it off, but in general I don't care about dancing on this show. With that said, the choreography or whatever it was in "Cool Kids" was truly horrible. Like, it was the first time I actually thought "wow, that was horrible".

[jaytee1812]

They probably needed six hour rehearsals so Lea and Naya could actually look halfway decent!

[tom87]

I don't notice the dancing much usually. Like, I appreciate the people who are great dancers and love when they can show it off, but in general I don't care about dancing on this show. With that said, the choreography or whatever it was in "Cool Kids" was truly horrible. Like, it was the first time I actually thought "wow, that was horrible".

I like the clubs' dancing the first few season because it looked like what might be  put together for such a group.    The end songs of season 4/5  were too much of the same thing just to push the so called bonding of that group.  Cool kids was in the same vain but just not the overkill as the past 2 seasons.

[jaytee1812]

I like the clubs' dancing the first few season because it looked like what might be  put together for such a group.    The end songs of season 4/5  were too much of the same thing just to push the so called bonding of that group.  Cool kids was in the same vain but just not the overkill as the past 2 seasons.

Apart from Valerie I don't really remember it being much more than posturing about the stage, which like you say did work for the group.

[jaytee1812]

Random question. Was Somebody To Love the first performance that the original 12 did together in the show?

[Ceeg]

Random question. Was Somebody To Love the first performance that the original 12 did together in the show?

 

They performed a song with April earlier in the same episode, but yeah Somebody to Love was their first performance with just the 12 of them, IIRC.

[dizzyizzy01]

Random question. Was Somebody To Love the first performance that the original 12 did together in the show?

I believe so. It definitely is the first one that occurs as a number outside the choir room with everyone participating. I think everything else even in thee choir room had some of the original twelve excluded in some fashion.

I think they just gave up on choreography. I also had heard Zach was less involved, but I forgot where I heard that.

They performed a song with April earlier in the same episode, but yeah Somebody to Love was their first performance with just the 12 of them, IIRC.

Isn't Rachel missing from Last Name? Or am I forgetting...

[jaytee1812]

Isn't Rachel missing from Last Name? Or am I forgetting...

Yeah she is, I think she quit the glee club but comes back when April leaves, and magically knows all the choreography for Somebody To Love.

I never felt, even in routines with proper dancers, that the choreography on glee was up to much. There probably one or two routines a season, excluding this one, that look well choreographed.

[Sara2009]

I wish they'd give Matt Morrison a dance partner who could actually keep up with him. The only time that happened was " Make Em Laugh."

[jaytee1812]

I wish they'd give Matt Morrison a dance partner who could actually keep up with him. The only time that happened was " Make Em Laugh."

Technically he does in Blurred Lines but let's not speak of that again.

I love the five seconds Matt, Harry, Jacob, Becca and Heather get in Don't Stop Believing in season 5.

[camussie]

To be fair while I like that Mercedes steeled her own spine and made her own opportunities I felt like it was wish fulfillment for her to get not one, but two, recording contracts.  Not exactly unearned (because unlike Rachel after she had a setback she didn't have someone just hand her another opportunity) but also not all that grounded in reality, even the hyper reality of the Glee universe.  Much like Kurt's Vogue internship and band getting a gig at the new Brooklyn "it" club also came across as wish fulfillment to me.  Same with Santana landing a national commercial, Sam landing a bus ad, and Blaine landing a wealthy patron.  

 

By the end of last season the only character's journey I was even a little invested in was Artie's mainly because he didn't seem to be living a wish fulfillment life and because, unlike the rest of them, I felt like he had some real challenges he had to deal with in his daily life.  I mean he was striving for his dream all while dealing with the challenge of the city in a wheelchair.  

Edited March 9, 2015 by camussie

[Ceeg]

I don't know that I'd call Santana's yeast-i-stat commercial "wish fulfillment". I mean, in real life, getting a national commercial is huge for an up-and-comer, but the commercial was a joke and she didn't even get paid in cash. At least not for the first one. And now people see her as the girl with the yeast infection. Even Brittany's mom called her "yeasty".

 

It's like that episode of Friends, when Joey books an ad for STDs, and he gets dis-invited from Thanksgiving.

Edited March 9, 2015 by Ceeg

[fakeempress]

To be fair while I like that Mercedes steeled her own spine and made her own opportunities I felt like it was wish fulfillment for her to get not one, but two, recording contracts.  Not exactly unearned (because unlike Rachel after she had a setback she didn't have someone just hand her another opportunity) but also not all that grounded in reality, even the hyper reality of the Glee universe.  Much like Kurt's Vogue internship and band getting a gig at the new Brooklyn "it" club also came across as wish fulfillment to me.  Same with Santana landing a national commercial, Sam landing a bus ad, and Blaine landing a wealthy patron.  

 

By the end of last season the only character's journey I was even a little invested in was Artie's mainly because he didn't seem to be living a wish fulfillment life and because, unlike the rest of them, I felt like he had some real challenges he had to deal with in his daily life.  I mean he was striving for his dream all while dealing with the challenge of the city in a wheelchair.  

I think in Mercedes' case it's not so far-fetched, bearing in mind the style of the show - since she is very talented, tenacious, motivated, and willing to put in the work unlike the lazy label the show stuck on her when she was Rachel's antagonist for GC solos and the role of Maria.

 

In the final count, it needs to be believable for the characters and the show's world, and I think Mercedes's success isn't that unbelievable. The band, Vogue, and the wealthy patron are more of a fairy godmother scenarios. I won't go into Rachel at all, with all the chances given to her and people falling over themselves to help her vs the work she put in and especially lessons learned.

 

As to grounded in reality - it's an extraneous point since it's not about the characters, but sometimes takes just one chance to be plucked from obscurity as Glee has been for the young actors, especially Kurt being Chris's first professional role.

Edited March 9, 2015 by fakeempress

[LydiaMoon1]

To be fair while I like that Mercedes steeled her own spine and made her own opportunities I felt like it was wish fulfillment for her to get not one, but two, recording contracts.

Rather than wish fulfillment, Mercedes' success has been built on hard work and a dose of good fortune.  That's show business.  She got dropped by her first label. The only way for her to to continue to pursue her dream was to get signed by another label. That's the way the recording industry works. Mind you, her second contract wasn't a gimme, she got it on the condition that she write songs for other artists.  Her second record deal was simply a grudging concession on behalf of Sony because they wanted her as a songwriter. Plus, she'd been working her way up the ladder for three years before she even garnered some success. None of that seems implausible to me and it certainly doesn't feel unearned.

Edited March 9, 2015 by LydiaMoon1

[dizzyizzy01]

Rather than wish fulfillment, Mercedes' success has been built on hard work and a dose of good fortune.  That's show business.  She got dropped by her first label. The only way for her to to continue to pursue her dream was to get signed by another label. That's the way the recording industry works. Mind you, her second contract wasn't a gimme, she got it on the condition that she write songs for other artists.  Her second record deal was simply a grudging concession on behalf of Sony because they wanted her as a songwriter. Plus, she'd been working her way up the ladder for three years before she even garnered some success. None of that seems implausible to me.

It's is actually pretty implausible the level of success she's been shown to have.  I mean she's got a 3 bedroom apartment in NYC and calling in favors for friends and back-up dancers/singers before even finishing recording her album??  You don't get those kind of deals or advances in the industry today to afford that kind of stuff.  And calling in Broadway favors with Russell Simmons?  Dude wouldn't be taking her call...It's totally wish fulfillment. 

[fakeempress]

It's is actually pretty implausible the level of success she's been shown to have.  I mean she's got a 3 bedroom apartment in NYC and calling in favors for friends and back-up dancers/singers before even finishing recording her album??  You don't get those kind of deals or advances in the industry today to afford that kind of stuff.  And calling in Broadway favors with Russell Simmons?  Dude wouldn't be taking her call...It's totally wish fulfillment. 

Eh, save for the apartment which I can handwave just as much as the Hummelberry loft, the above wasn't about her success SL, but about serving Santana's and Rachel's.

Edited March 9, 2015 by fakeempress

[KatWay]

It's okay for me because nobody actually cares about Mercedes' success. She's a total afterthought. Nothing about her career is at all relevant except as a plot device to get Brittany a job, to get the random background dancers weigh in on her relationship with Sam, and now to get Rachel a job. It's not wish fulfillment so much as it's simply very convenient. We're not invited to celebrate Mercedes as a major success story, or to see her as the special star whose hard journey has paid off. It's just, and by the way, Mercedes has a recording contract. Also, she's moving to NY because plot. Oh, look, she's gone again, because reasons. Back again as the No.1 Samchel shipper! Gone again. Back again to get Rachel a new job! Gone again.

 

I can't get too worked up about wish fulfillment here because honestly the writers probably don't even care what happens to Mercedes, as long as it's convenient for the characters/storylines they really care about. Mercedes isn't the special snowflake fairytale princess, she's the fairy godmother, existing only to service other characters.

[LydiaMoon1]

Oh KatWay.  That's sad but oh so true.

 

Eh, save for the apartment which I can handwave just as much as the Hummelberry loft, the above wasn't about her success SL, but about serving Santana's and Rachel's.

Exactly.  Besides, maybe her invisible parents helped pay for the apartment.  Who knows.

It's is actually pretty implausible the level of success she's been shown to have.

 

We can argue all day about what level of success Mercedes is allowed to have for it to seem plausible to some, but the bottom line is that she has been working in the industry for several years now. Between her singing, her songwriting, and her warm and generous nature, I can easily believe that she's had time to make friends and meet contacts and make inroads with all manner of people. YMMV.  

Edited March 9, 2015 by LydiaMoon1

[dizzyizzy01]

Eh, save for the apartment which I can handwave just as much as the Hummelberry loft, the above wasn't about her success SL, but about serving Santana's and Rachel's.

I mean a loft with no rooms in Williamsburg is pretty different than a 3 bedroom apartment in Manhattan.  You're talking about a few thousand dollars/month in rent, but I agree there's no reality on living situations on television.  The reality of most of the character's success still seems like fantasy wish fulfillment though.   And honestly 3 years (has it even been 3 years since graduation?) is not a long time to be trying in the industry.  She went from living in her parent's house to living it up on LA and NYC with which appears to be a very successful recording career.  Most of the characters success seem like fantasy wish fulfillment.  Getting a lead Broadway role your first time out.  Getting into the Joffrey ballet with no ballet training.  Getting a Vogue internship with no relevant experience.

[fakeempress]

I agree that overall it's wish fulfillment. But I still think Kurt's NYADA admission and Mercedes's second contract which sent her to NYC are not that implausible compared to some other SLs. They achieved that on their own overcoming some setbacks. It's nowhere near how Rachel gets her second chances. 

[spiritof76]

 

Eh, save for the apartment which I can handwave just as much as the Hummelberry loft, the above wasn't about her success SL, but about serving Santana's and Rachel's.

This is a very good point. Most of the success Mercedes has gotten has basically been to service the success/happiness of other characters. For example her moving to NY and getting set up in that sweet brownstone in Harlem. Well what a coincidence! Blaine and Sam need some place to live. Blaine because he and his fiance can't stand to live together and Sam because he's been couch surfing at Rachel and Kurt's forever. What? Mercedes is recording an album? Going on a mall tour? Well she has just the people you need to be backup singers/dancers (at least until Santana and Brittany figure out what is that they want to do with their lives). And what we have here? Mercedes tour was a success, so she got to go to the BET Awards, where she got to talk to Russel Simmons so she could what? Perhaps see if she could work with him? Nope! She sets up an audition for her friend who is now sleeping with her ex-boyfriend and just recently blew up her career. (Kind of like how Tina's severe head injury and feelings of being overlooked were really used as a way to get Rachel in to NYADA.) So is Mercedes success a bit unrealistic? Perhaps. But in the Glee universe nobody cares about Mercedes happiness or success. Nobody is cheering her on or bucking her up when things get rough. (to be fair Sam did when they were dating, but he has since taken his services elsewhere). So I guess for me that is why I can stomach her success more.

 

Because the show keeps telling me that Rachel is just so super special and so deserving of everything good thing that happens to her. And all the bad things are never her fault. It's just bad luck or mean people trying to keep her down. I know she is the lead. I get that. But take a show like Scandal (I know it has its problems. Believe me. I know) Olivia is the lead. There is no doubt we are supposed to care about her and what happens to her. And she is an utter mess. Sometimes she can be kind of blind to it. But then there are other times when the show gives her sense of self-awareness. She knows she is a mess. She knows she is sometimes making awful life choices. Hurting other people and herself. Even though sometimes she thinks her reasons for doing things are right, she knows she is wrong and that a lot of the jams she finds herself in are of her own making. And so as much as she drives me crazy and makes me roll my eyes at times (cause seriously enough with the jam and Vermont, It ain't happening) I can still find myself pulling for her, because she is at least cognizant of her faults and tries to do better. And the show isn't trying to tell me that she is not awful at times. They are not trying to sell me on her being beyond reproach. And they aren't trying to tell me the character sees herself that way either. With Rachel we are supposed to root for her and pull for her and want her to succeed because she is so special and deserves it. And the truth is, there are plenty of times when, no she doesn't. So they loose me there.

[dizzyizzy01]

Slightly more plausible than other story lines on this show doesn't make it plausible or satisfying.  It's still fantasy wish fulfillment and makes for a bad uninteresting show.  You can't get invested in anyone's triumphs because there's no development.  The writers simply don't understand how to build any type of story arc.  Almost everything happens suddenly and out of the blue.  It's the case for pretty much every character on this show (except maybe Tina cause she never gets anything).  And it's the worst for the characters that get more screen time.

[jaytee1812]

The only characters who have believable arcs are Tina and Quinn who were academically good students who got into good colleges. Well that and the old newbies getting kick out of school, that was fairly believable.

[fakeempress]

 

Because the show keeps telling me that Rachel is just so super special and so deserving of everything good thing that happens to her. And all the bad things are never her fault. It's just bad luck or mean people trying to keep her down

I may have mentioned this already, but the thing with Rachel's treatment is that, her talent aside, her successes were for the most part propped by someone else, while her failures were, for the most part, of her own making. In the first column I put Tina in Props, Kurt signing her up for the FG audition to lift her spirits, everyone rallying to get her out of the funk before the FG premiere, Mercedes gifting her the Russel Simmons audition. In the second I put her choking at the first NYADA audition (however believable or not), getting bored with FG in a matter of weeks, and bailing on FG for TV stardom. Adding to that, people covered for her when she was auditioning in Hollywood, and this season the FG/TV pilot fiasco has been made into something that just happened to her, for which now she has to be rewarded by two new chances. This is the kind of unearned that I don't appreciate.

 

 

The only characters who have believable arcs are Tina and Quinn who were academically good students who got into good colleges.

I also find Kurt's NYADA arc entirely believable. It's about getting into a good school on second try, and then putting in the work as shown, to do well there. Don't have a problem with such stories as Artie getting into film school (he was shown to have a knack at it), Santana getting a cheerleading scholarship (she was national champion), Mike getting into dance school (he's very talented and passionate about dance), and Mercedes having a recording career. Even Rachel getting a chance at B'way stardom because of her talent. It's not a naturalistic show, and such licences will happen. But the narrative around these chances is what makes it or breaks it for me, and in Rachels' case it's been a lot of unearned propping. 

Edited March 9, 2015 by fakeempress

[camussie]

I think Artie's arc is fairly believable for Glee's heightened universe, at least, with the exception of him randomly hanging around the McKinley choir room.  Him wanting to be a director was something that was established back in S1 and he continued to work at that pursuit throughout high school.  Got into a film academy and has had some success (showed something he did at a small film festival) but nothing huge.  I actually find it more believable than Quinn, who has never really acted beyond Rocky Horror, getting into one of the most esteemed drama programs in the country.

 

I also like Puck's arc.  He was aimless until  tragedy struck his life so he joined the military to find some direction.  I think it also speaks to something I said way back when "The Quarterback" aired.  Out of all of them Finn's death had the most immediate effect on Puck's life.  As much as Kurt lost a brother and Rachel lost someone she saw herself ending up with,  Puck lost someone who was going to be his "brother in arms" to prove to the world they were more than just Lima losers.  He lost someone who was a big part of his daily life.  Given that, it has always made sense to me that Puck seems to feel that loss deeper than most of them.

 

I also liked that Finn found a passion in teaching through simply doing it.  What I didn't like is how he was handheld through the process but even with that I didn't feel like it was anywhere near the levels Rachel has been propped through her post high school journey.  Will didn't step down at McKinley to give Finn an opportunity to teach.  Will wanted to go to D.C, so it was a win/win for both of them for Finn to take over.  The problem as I said was that he wasn't active enough in his own story.  I would have liked it better if Will told Finn he was bummed because he has the great opportunity in D.C. for a few months but he can't take it and then Finn offered to take over.  I also really really wish Marley hadn't dressed him down before he finally went to college.  I wanted that to be a decision he came to on his own, preferably back in January of season 4 versus April. 

Edited March 9, 2015 by camussie

[dizzyizzy01]

I think Artie's arc is fairly believable for Glee's heightened universe, at least, with the exception of him randomly hanging around the McKinley choir room.  Him wanting to be a director was something that was established back in S1 and he continued to work at that pursuit throughout high school.  Got into a film academy and has had some success (showed something he did at a small film festival) but nothing huge.  I actually find it more believable than Quinn, who has never really acted beyond Rocky Horror, getting into one of the most esteemed drama programs in the country.

 

I also like Puck's arc.  He was aimless until  tragedy struck his life so he joined the military to find some direction.  I think it also speaks to something I said way back when "The Quarterback" aired.  Out of all of them Finn's death had the most immediate daily effect on Puck's life.  As much as Kurt lost a brother and Rachel lost someone she saw herself ending up with some day Puck lost someone who was going to be his "brother in arms" to prove to the world they were more than just Lima losers.  He lost someone who was a big part of his daily life.  Given that it has always made sense to me that Puck seems to feel that loss deeper than most of them

Quinn didn't actually get into the Yale drama program since that is a graduate degree, but you can't really expect accurate details on Glee.  I guess she could technically try to get a certificate in drama, but I don't know if Yale admits their own undergrad students to the MFA program.

 

I'd agree Puck and Artie's stories are much more believable, but again, they've also never been show to achieve some wild ass success either.  They're more an a normal path of growing and learning.  Again though, it's when characters get any type of focus is that things really go off the rails.  

 

I may have mentioned this already, but the thing with Rachel's treatment is that, her talent aside, her successes were for the most part propped by someone else, while her failures were, for the most part, of her own making. In the first column I put Tina in Props, Kurt signing her up for the FG audition to lift her spirits, everyone rallying to get her out of the funk before the FG premiere, Mercedes gifting her the Russel Simmons audition. In the second I put her choking at the first NYADA audition (however believable or not), getting bored with FG in a matter of weeks, and bailing on FG for TV stardom. Adding to that, people covered for her when she was auditioning in Hollywood, and this season the FG/TV pilot fiasco has been made into something that just happened to her, for which now she has to be rewarded by two new chances. This is the kind of unearned that I don't appreciate.

 

 

And I've never argued that Rachel's stories are satisfying either or that she deserves these "wins".   I've clearly stated they aren't, but the point remains, that basically none of these achievements for any of the characters are satisfying.  You can't get invested in their successes because we don't see enough of how they develop.

[jaytee1812]

Artie's is sort of believable in terms of glee's universe in that he's shown being a director. But he's never shown in the AV club which I would've thought would be essential. And honestly from what we saw he sucks as a director.

I love Puck's arc. For the first couple of seasons I was meh about Puck, somewhere around the Shelby arc and the way he cared for Quinn and Beth, I really grew to love the character. I loved the stuff with Jake in season 4, and I liked how he reacted to Finn's death and got his life together.

It's why Quick now makes sense to me. It's like all through high school Quinn knew she loved Puck, but she knew he was bad news, that it could never end well. When she sees he's grown up, is building a life for himself in the same way she is then she gives him a chance. I don't foresee a Puck/Quinn wedding but a long term relationship into their mid 20s is my head canon.

[fakeempress]

Quinn didn't actually get into the Yale drama program since that is a graduate degree, but you can't really expect accurate details on Glee.  I guess she could technically try to get a certificate in drama, but I don't know if Yale admits their own undergrad students to the MFA program.

 

I'd agree Puck and Artie's stories are much more believable, but again, they've also never been show to achieve some wild ass success either.  They're more an a normal path of growing and learning.  Again though, it's when characters get any type of focus is that things really go off the rails.  

 

And I've never argued that Rachel's stories are satisfying either or that she deserves these "wins".   I've clearly stated they aren't, but the point remains, that basically none of these achievements for any of the characters are satisfying.  You can't get invested in their successes because we don't see enough of how they develop.

As I repeatedly said, Kurt's NYADA story in particular isn't a success I didn't see develop, so I cannot include myself in the generic "you" there in such absolute terms. He doesn't have anything in NYADA that is outside the bounds of what you accept for Puck and Artie:

 

I'd agree Puck and Artie's stories are much more believable, but again, they've also never been show to achieve some wild ass success either.  They're more an a normal path of growing and learning

Edited March 9, 2015 by fakeempress

[Hana Chan]

Kurt got rejected from NYADA the first time he applied, presumably because of his thin resume and then retconned that Ms. Tibideaux (after praising his performance as being something that Hugh Jackman would have been proud of) felt he was all flash and no soul. He then reapplied and was nearly rejected a second time. We saw him practicing for his first audition, weighing out what song to use and how best to stage it and getting feedback from various sources (primarily Rachel and Blaine). When his second application was rejected, he went to see Ms. Tibideaux and had a serious discussion with her about what she was looking for in students. The one outlandish part of his storyline was being invited to perform at Winter Showcase and having that be his audition.

 

But was that any more outlandish than Rachel blowing her first NYADA audition (which does happen no matter how talented or practiced someone might be), harassing the dean in an attempt to give her another chance, having Ms. Tibideaux (after giving very valid reasons why Rachel didn't deserve further consideration) show up at Nationals and after having everyone and their grandmother praising Rachel to her and admits her? Who then quits NYADA because she felt that she no longer needed what the school offered, blows her professional opportunities and then gets readmitted just by asking?

 

It's one set of rules for everyone else (often with real consequences that don't just vanish with the next episode) and one for The Special Snowflake.

[grandemocha]

 

Who then quits NYADA because she felt that she no longer needed what the school offered, blows her professional opportunities and then gets readmitted just by asking?

We actually didn't see the conversation between Tibideaux and Rachel. So you and I have NO clue what was said on either side. You don't know that she got readmitted just by asking. Rachel did even say (something like) that even if Tibideaux laughed in her face, she didn't care. So it's just random head canon to fill in what might have happened. 

[Hana Chan]

We saw what happened. Rachel went to NYADA, talked to Ms. Tibideaux and later in the episode got a phone call telling her that she could come back to NYADA if she wanted. While the actual conversation between them wasn't filmed, the results were the same. Rachel asked and got what she in no way deserved. There is no way to justify that in a program that only accepts 20 students per year out of hundreds of applicants that they would readmit someone who got one of those precious spots, then after slacking off while she focused on her professional role decided that she didn't need it any more and quit.

[grandemocha]

 

We saw what happened. Rachel went to NYADA, talked to Ms. Tibideaux and later in the episode got a phone call telling her that she could come back to NYADA if she wanted.

No, we did not see what happened. We saw Rachel sitting outside Tibideaux's office, then later heard the one sided phone call. That's not remotely enough IMO to say Rachel got back in "just by asking". 

 

 

after slacking off while she focused on her professional role

Yes, she was slacking off by devoting alot of her time to a professional Broadway production trying to make it be the best it could possibly be. How dare she have difficulty balancing her responsibilities.Was she or was she not still working at that ridiculous singing diner during this time? My memory is hazy. If so, that's two jobs and school. It's almost like she was an inexperienced 19 year old who was struggling in the real world and made some foolish decisions. 

 

Plot induced stupidity is what I like to call it. 

Edited March 9, 2015 by grandemocha

[camussie]

There is no indication that Rachel had to do another audition.  Rachel herself said she asked for another chance.  She didn't say she was required to do anything additional.

 

As far as how she left NYADA, I don't blame her for not being able to balance NYADA and "Funny Girl.".  I think that is normal for someone who had a lot of responsibility thrown on them, especially for someone so young. I blame her for the attitude she threw at Carmen as she left.  As if Carmen was a Broadway rube who knew nothing about the process where as Rachel was the expert in that conversation.  I also blame her for her general attitude and work ethic during "Funny Girl."  From the fit she threw about needing an understudy at all to ditching the show after a month.  The funny thing is every concern the director had about her being too green came to fruition.  He should have stuck to his initial assessment instead of stupidly giving Rachel the part after he singing tantrum at the diner.  Really, if anything, that tantrum should have proved to him he was right to think she was too green.  

[spiritof76]

 

(after praising his performance as being something that Hugh Jackman would have been proud of)

On a slightly off topic note, I loved how for Kurt's audition he used Tina and Mercedes as his back-up singers/dancers and that the dresses they wore were the Season 1 black and gold regional outfits. I don't know. It just struck me as making sense and a reminder that sometimes these kids do help each other out. Helping out is a lot different than propping. Also on the topic of helping each other. On the flip side when Mercedes was having problems with her recording contract the person she did talk to about it was Kurt and he was supportive. And then when she wanted to shoot a video she had Mike help with the choreography.Again to me, those are helping a friend.