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Some People Are Indifferent To Raymond: Your Least Favorite Moments

David T. Cole

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ByTor

ByTor

2 hours ago, Mrs. Hanson said:
On 5/26/2017 at 8:32 PM, Snow Apple said:

Does Robert pay alimony? Otherwise, I'm not sure why a cop who lives with his parents wouldn't have a nice savings account. Heck, I saved a good chunk of change as a teenager making minimum wage while living in my parent's home. But then I recall Robert loaning Ray money at  least once, so I guess his finances depends on the plot.

A little late with a response but I remember thinking the same thing!  Robert, you are a cop who can pick up extra shifts, work off duty security......c'mon!  He didn't need an expensive array of suits, either!  Of course he had his lucky suit......

We really are better with continuity than the writers, aren't we?  I think it was the Christmas letter episode where Debra was building up Robert & said that he was a member of the NYC police department.  So here he was making a NYC salary & living with his parents in Long Island, he really should have been able to save some money.

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BlossomCulp
BlossomCulp

I feel quite differently!  I loved Amy and thought she made a great addition to the cast.  It was also interesting to see how she slowly began to realize what being part of the Barone family actually

Inquisitionist
Inquisitionist

Whereas I thought the finale was just about note-perfect, both funny and touching. 

CleoCaesar
CleoCaesar

The episode where someone sneezed on Raymond is on right now. How Debra doesn't kill Marie and file for divorce is beyond me. What a disgusting mama's boy. He literally acts like a 6-year-old for no g

BlossomCulp

BlossomCulp

(edited)

Yeah, that really bugged me.  He was poor for one whole episode! And poor to the point where his fridge was empty of anything except some orange juice and some baloney.  No way.   And a few episodes later he's dating a lawyer then he's back with Amy and can afford to get married and honeymoon in Italy????  ELR was head and shoulders above most sitcoms where continuity is concerned but this plot line was just ridiculous.

With regard to alimony I don't think we are ever given any reason to believe Robert pays alimony.  It's never mentioned not even in the episodes where we meet Joanne, aka Cinnamon.  

Edited by BlossomCulp
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Mrs. Hanson

Mrs. Hanson

(edited)
On 6/26/2016 at 5:31 PM, CherryAmes said:

I wonder if Ray's position as favoured child  would have changed if Marie had gotten her way and they'd had a third child.  IME it's almost always the oldest or youngest who is favoured - rarely the middle kid.

I am really late to add this but I am the youngest of three and I was in no way my mom's favorite!!!  LOL!  My older brother and sister were!!

 

On 7/20/2016 at 3:52 PM, mmecorday said:

The episode where Ray and Debra are responsible for supplying a snack during a little league game has always bugged me because I totally concur that pretzels and warm Hawaiian punch were not acceptable. They couldn't even spring for a dollar store foam cooler to keep the beverage cold? Not all kids like pretzels, either.

The snack episode cracks me up every time as I had two kids in sports.  Some parents were over the top with their requests!  I do agree that warm Hawaiian Punch and pretzels are not the ideal.  But plantains?  C'mon Brian.......or as Ray says, "Briiiiiii-an!!"

The episode where Robert and Amy and Marie interrupts the wedding?  So it can be all about her?  That is "I am not gonna forget that one for a loooong time" behavior.  I mean, hoe self centered is Marie?  Oh wait......

On 6/3/2016 at 3:04 PM, Homily said:

Agreed.  There are lots of occasions where we might theoretically purchase a special outfit knowing that we're not terribly likely to wear it often, or even again.- it won't be many years before Allie is going to proms and graduations and then friends weddings etc.  The dress itself and it's price wasn't really the issue, at least for me. What bothered me was the damned expectation on Peggy's part that all the girls would dress alike and all the parents would not mind spending $250.  This show was set in suburban New York not Hollywood! 

Why not just send out invites that state:  "Country Club has a dress code and dress code is as such:"  I, too, would have been pissed at paying $$$ for a dress my preteen daughter will wear once.  For a girl she may not even be friends with in a few months.

Edited by Mrs. Hanson
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BlossomCulp

BlossomCulp

28 minutes ago, Mrs. Hanson said:

For a girl she may not even be friends with in a few months.

What always kills me is that Molly is Allie's best friend and yet she never thinks to tell her that the idea of all the girls wearing those dresses has been dropped?  Never came up?  Really? Clearly this episode was written by a daughterless man!  Lol.  I take this show way too seriously sometimes!!

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Mrs. Hanson

Mrs. Hanson

On 9/21/2017 at 8:01 AM, BlossomCulp said:

What always kills me is that Molly is Allie's best friend and yet she never thinks to tell her that the idea of all the girls wearing those dresses has been dropped?  Never came up?  Really? Clearly this episode was written by a daughterless man!  Lol.  I take this show way too seriously sometimes!!

I agree!!  I don't have daughter but my friends do....oy.  Constant chatter about food, clothes.....it never ends.  I used to take this show too seriously too but it hit close to home a lot!

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CherryAmes

CherryAmes

(edited)
On 9/20/2017 at 4:44 PM, BlossomCulp said:

With regard to alimony I don't think we are ever given any reason to believe Robert pays alimony.  It's never mentioned not even in the episodes where we meet Joanne, aka Cinnamon.  

Yep.  Contrary to a lot of "wisdom" from other sitcoms (Two and a Half Men as one example) it really isn't all that common for a woman to collect alimony after divorce -- depending on location of course.  In certain circumstances she would get some for a specific period of time (if she was home with children and would need time to get an education or find a job for instance or possibly would get alimony long term if the divorce came late enough in life that her going back to work was not very likely) but there's no reason why Robert, after a brief marriage to a woman who was working the whole time (whether as a "dancer" or selling insurance), would have been paying alimony.

Edited by CherryAmes
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BlossomCulp

BlossomCulp

(edited)

Yeah, Joanne and Robert were married very briefly and she worked (in the flashback episode she talked about how Robert would be coming to her for banana money) and there were no children.  I have no idea offhand what the laws are in New York but where I live she wouldn't have been entitled to anything or very little and not for very long anyway given their circumstances.  We've no reason to believe, for one thing, that she was making less than Robert!

Edited by BlossomCulp
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BlossomCulp

BlossomCulp

The one I saw recently where Marie was like that was the episode where Ray forgets to mention Debra in his speech when he gets his honourary degree.  To make up for something that really was quite hurtful, even if unintentional, he wrote a nice little tribute to her in his column.  Marie couldn't even let her have that much from Ray.  She has to rush over and demand to know where her written testimonial was.  Robert wasn't much better but at least he didn't try to diminish Debra's role in Ray's life the way Marie did.

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punkypower

punkypower

I can't remember the episode title, but this moment has always stuck in my craw for ALL these years and ultimately leaves me with a grudge against ELR:

(After Ray tells the kids something about Debra's weight)

Debra: "Mommy is NOT 130!!"

Way to make most of your viewers feel like shit, Patty and writers!!

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BlossomCulp

BlossomCulp

It was the episode where Ray thinks he's shrinking, "Six Feet Under" from season 2. Not that it's any better but it's actually 140.  The horror of it!   They referenced weight now and then on ELR and I always wondered if that bothered Doris Roberts.  She wasn't much taller than Patty Heaton and gained a lot of weight over the 9 years the show was on the air.

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qtpye

qtpye

On Sunday, September 24, 2017 at 9:18 PM, BlossomCulp said:

It was the episode where Ray thinks he's shrinking, "Six Feet Under" from season 2. Not that it's any better but it's actually 140.  The horror of it!   They referenced weight now and then on ELR and I always wondered if that bothered Doris Roberts.  She wasn't much taller than Patty Heaton and gained a lot of weight over the 9 years the show was on the air.

I hated the episode where Maries says Ray looks like Frank and Robert looks like Marie. I did like they finally acknowledged that Robert was handsome, but his sad sack attitude was awful.  I think Amy fell hard for his tall dark good looks and later regretted it.

CherryAmes

CherryAmes

On 10/6/2017 at 10:38 AM, qtpye said:

 I think Amy fell hard for his tall dark good looks and later regretted it.

Robert (Brad Garrett) isn't bad looking but only on ELR I think would he be described as tall, dark and handsome!  Ok, maybe that's just me?  Anyway I think Ray Romano is better looking. :small voice: actually there was a point a few years after ELR ended when he was sporting a beard and I thought he  looked pretty hot!

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qtpye

qtpye

17 hours ago, CherryAmes said:

Robert (Brad Garrett) isn't bad looking but only on ELR I think would he be described as tall, dark and handsome!  Ok, maybe that's just me?  Anyway I think Ray Romano is better looking. :small voice: actually there was a point a few years after ELR ended when he was sporting a beard and I thought he  looked pretty hot!

 

2 hours ago, aquarian1 said:

I agree with you, @CherryAmes.  

Smaller voice...I always found Ray attractive...physically attractive...his personality was the biggest turn off.  I'm sure (or hope) that Ray Romano is a lot nicer then Ray Barone.

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Mrs. Hanson

Mrs. Hanson

If it were real life I would take Robert over Ray.  Both handsome, yes but Ray was SO selfish and waaaay too into pleasing his mama.  Robert knew he could never please her and would probably stop trying once he had the love and admiration of a wife.  Plus my hubby is six foot seven so yeah......the height helps.  

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CherryAmes

CherryAmes

On 10/16/2017 at 9:27 AM, Mrs. Hanson said:

If it were real life I would take Robert over Ray. 

Based on the way each treated his wife I'd have to choose Ray.  Sure Ray routinely lied to and about Debra but I don't remember him ever yelling at her, least of all in front of other people, and that's something Robert did a couple of times - and they are still very newly married.  What's he going to be like after 10 years?  

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mmecorday

mmecorday

(edited)

I need to remember not to watch the one about Ray's letter from Muhammad Ali because it makes me irrationally angry every time. I hate that Ray is so careless about where he puts the letter to begin with and I hate that Debra just throws a bunch of stuff away without sorting through it first.

I also find Amy's character a little on the shrill side and I try to avoid the episodes that are overly Amy-centric.

Edited by mmecorday
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Snow Apple

Snow Apple

On 10/26/2017 at 0:03 PM, mmecorday said:

I need to remember not to watch the one about Ray's letter from Muhammad Ali because it makes me irrationally angry every time. I hate that Ray is so careless about where he puts the letter to begin with and I hate that Debra just throws a bunch of stuff away without sorting through it first.

 

I watch this episode just to hear Amy say "A mob family" in response to Marie's speech about what family does for each other.

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ShadowSixx

ShadowSixx

(edited)
On 10/18/2017 at 7:51 AM, CherryAmes said:

Based on the way each treated his wife I'd have to choose Ray.  Sure Ray routinely lied to and about Debra but I don't remember him ever yelling at her, least of all in front of other people, and that's something Robert did a couple of times - and they are still very newly married.  What's he going to be like after 10 years?  

 

I would choose Ray over Robert as well. Not to mention the fact that Robert called Amy "his Stefania" and cared way too much about Debra right in front of Amy plus Robert brought Amy shitty gifts like an iguana and tickets to the ice capades. All in all Ray isn't terrible and I bet if he didn't live close to Frank & Marie, Ray would be a lot more easier to deal with. Robert just has too many issues, obsessed with wanting Ray to fail, commitment issues, can be petty, looks like he wants to date his sister-in-law, mommy issues, just a little too much. Plus I always found Ray Romano cute.

Edited by ShadowSixx
qtpye

qtpye

(edited)

I did not care for the episode where Debra goes back to work.  In order to answer the question why the heck Debra is not working when staying at home with three kids and Marie down the street was clearly not making her happy, they had to make her totally incompetent.  I work full time and have two small children and I know it is hard (and a husband who is traveling), but Debra seems like the type who would enjoy getting out of the house  and getting away from Marie once in a while.  The part time job seemed perfect, but of course that would ruin the whole show dynamic.  It made her seem like more of a shrew when she yelled at Ray, because it felt like they were saying she would not last a minute in the real world by herself, when we all knew she had a good job before she got married.

Edited by qtpye
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BlossomCulp

BlossomCulp

(edited)
5 hours ago, qtpye said:

The part time job seemed perfect, but of course that would ruin the whole show dynamic. 

I could see them deciding not to have Debra really go back to work at that point in the show  but it never made sense to me that she didn't at least do something part-time in the last few years when the kids were all in school all day.  Even if they didn't need the money she could have used the break from Marie!  And really it's not like they worried too much about the jobs the other characters had!  They stopped showing Ray at work after the first couple of seasons and they could always have had a throwaway remark or two now and then to pay lip service to the idea that Debra had a job.  You really get the feeling that since the show was reflecting Ray Romano's real life that they just didn't want to do anything too different with Debra.

Edited by BlossomCulp
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msani19

msani19

Just saw the one where Debra was choking and Ray was useless (as usual) and Robert had to perform the Heimlich. The scene in at the pizza place where they were talking about who "gets" Debra if Ray was out of the picture nauseates and infuriates me at the same time. Seriously, Robert, you "get" her because you are the brother and it's in the bible? Okkkkk. I can't even begin to express the fury at the dismissive and breezy way they had quickly reduced Debra to Ray's property that they were deciding how to divide up. So funny, haha. I want to slug every one of those guys! I know the show itself was never on the progressive side of gender roles, but that episode as in 2001! 

Ok, I just gotta shake it off, lol. Everything related to topics like that is setting me off this year!

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ByTor

ByTor

16 minutes ago, msani19 said:

Just saw the one where Debra was choking and Ray was useless (as usual) and Robert had to perform the Heimlich.

The thing that annoyed me in that episode is that Robert was wrong.  Ray saying Debra was coughing, not choking, was played as a "Raymond is lazy & stupid" joke, but he was actually right to do nothing.  From the New York Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/health/guides/injury/choking-adult-or-child-over-1-year/overview.html

Quote

 

DO NOT

DO NOT interfere if the person is coughing forcefully, able to speak, or is able to breathe in and out adequately. However, be ready to act immediately if the person's symptoms worsen.

 

Another episode where Ray is right but it was played as some kind of stupid joke was "Fun With Debra."  Raymond was made to look like an idiot & Debra mocked him when he complained that Debra's shadow was in his way when he was putting on the green, but that is a legitimate gripe, and if Debra knew anything about etiquette she would have moved.  From the PGA: 

http://www.pga.com/golf-instruction/instruction-feature/fundamentals/golf-etiquette
 

Quote

 

On the green, remember:

(snip)

Hold the flagstick at arm's length so the flag doesn't flutter in the breeze, and make sure your shadow doesn't fall across the hole or line. Loosen the bottom of the flagstick so it doesn't stick when you try and remove it by pulling it straight up after the other player has putted. The flagstick should be removed right after the player has hit the ball.

 

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BlossomCulp

BlossomCulp

5 minutes ago, ByTor said:

Ray saying Debra was coughing, not choking, was played as a "Raymond is lazy & stupid" joke, but he was actually right to do nothing. 

He was right not to do the Heimlich but turning up the TV?  Not so much!  What I hate about that episode is the creepy way he stalked and basically attacked Debra just to prove he was a big man.

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Guest

Guest

Ray’s Ring was on tonight. Robert is so annoying about being bored on the trip. Ray takes him on a trip, and he isn’t happy (of course) and acts like it’s Ray’s fault.

It made me think of the ongoing discussion in the Debra thread. No wonder Ray didn’t even consider asking Robert! Robert is a terrible travel companion.

Maharincess

Maharincess

2 hours ago, deaja said:

Ray’s Ring was on tonight. Robert is so annoying about being bored on the trip. Ray takes him on a trip, and he isn’t happy (of course) and acts like it’s Ray’s fault.

It made me think of the ongoing discussion in the Debra thread. No wonder Ray didn’t even consider asking Robert! Robert is a terrible travel companion.

That's what I said in the Debra thread. Why would Ray want to take either Frank or Robert? Frank would bitch and Robert would whine about everything. I'd take Gianni to the Super Bowl too. 

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BlossomCulp

BlossomCulp

11 hours ago, bigskygirl said:

If I remembered correctly, I think Robert said his ex-wife took him to the cleaners when they got divorced. He may have been paying alimony and ended up broke.

I don't think he ever paid alimony but there was at least one episode where Marie said something along the lines of "you lost all your money to that horrible woman".  

CherryAmes

CherryAmes

She is in her early 30s in the "Good Girls" episode.  Ray says her exact age at one point but I don't remember what it was offhand, something like 32-33.  So she was close to 40 if not already 40 by the end of the series and Robert was 50.  I agree that always bugged me about their talk about having all their ducks in a row etc.  No mention at all of how old they were and that if they weren't going to have kids now it probably would never happen.

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mmecorday

mmecorday

I despise the episode about Marie's canister. Debra's obsession with hiding the fact that she did, in fact, have Marie's prized canister drives me bonkers, especially when she is smashing the canister into the trash can while Ray and Robert watch in horror. This was something that belonged to Marie and that she obviously cherished. Debra was willing to destroy it just to perpetuate an untruth.

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BlossomCulp

BlossomCulp

5 hours ago, mmecorday said:

Debra was willing to destroy it just to perpetuate an untruth.

Well really more so she wouldn't give Marie yet another weapon for her arsenal.  I don't disagree that it was awful to throw it away but I could completely understand the motivation.  Aside from that though I have to say that Patty Heaton was awesome in that episode and richly deserved her Emmy that year.

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ByTor

ByTor

5 hours ago, mmecorday said:

I despise the episode about Marie's canister. Debra's obsession with hiding the fact that she did, in fact, have Marie's prized canister drives me bonkers, especially when she is smashing the canister into the trash can while Ray and Robert watch in horror.

It's so weird.  I do hate when Debra does that, yet for some reason I love this episode!

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