Some People Are Indifferent To Raymond: Your Least Favorite Moments

[ByTor]

On 5/12/2017 at 5:16 PM, ShadowSixx said:

In the episode Move Out Ray encouraged Robert to move out of Frank & Marie's because he didn't like seeing Robert be miserable

And he encouraged Robert to move out of the Stipes' garage apartment when he saw how bad it was there.

The only time I've seen Ray jealous of Robert was when Robert got a promotion the same day Ray's book got rejected.  He even tore Robert's "yarn vomit" sweater!

Edited May 18, 2017 by ByTor

[CherryAmes]

On 5/18/2017 at 2:25 AM, ShadowSixx said:

If Ray had a problem with women then he would have also disliked Amy, Pat, Stefania, Judy, & Linda. What other woman did Ray have a problem with besides Peggy?

I think it's fair to say that Ray didn't have an easy time being friends with women.  I don't think it's that he disliked any of the women he knows, aside from Peggy, but he didn't know how to relax and be comfortable one on one with them.  A classic example of that is the episode where Amy talks to him while they are waiting for Robert to come home.  He clearly doesn't want her there and can't just have a conversation with her.  He can't even keep his discomfort to himself and has to vent to Robert about her being a "Lady Chatterly".

[ShadowSixx]

I'm thinking because he doesn't have anything in common with them to really talk about. He's into sports and golf and don't think any of the ladies on the show shared the same interest. It turned into a disaster when Ray & Debra went golfing together. It seemed the only thing Ray & Amy had in common was Robert, they bonded over that, but I don't think Ray wants to spend all his time talking about Robert. Even though Robert has no problem talking negatively of Ray.

[msani19]

Well, Ray and Deborah also didn't seem to have much in common or to talk about either. He liked golf, she didn't. She liked reading, he could only get through the 1st page of that terrible book. Couples don't need to literally like all the same things, but they didn't seem to enjoy much of anything with each other. I can see that translating into his other interactions with women too. He's just not comfortable with women. He never was. Whether it was conscious or not on her part, Marie made certain that the only women he could relax around was her.

My BF and I will recite the Valentine's day scene when all they could find to talk about the butter... This butter is the perfect temperature-slash-density. When we go out to eat and there's a lull in our conversation, one of will say that. Cracks us up.

[Snow Apple]

It's not just women. Ray isn't comfortable or want to spend time with men who are not interested in sports either. Sports seem to be all he's interested in unless he needs sex from Debra. He has no interest in the children or any household stuff. I actually can't think of any activity he enjoys. He even moans and groans at a free trip to Italy. 

I guess Ray's not a bad guy, but I really don't blame Debra playing the betting game with the children (the one where they bet if he notices her new hairdo). 

[ByTor]

23 hours ago, msani19 said:

My BF and I will recite the Valentine's day scene when all they could find to talk about the butter... This butter is the perfect temperature-slash-density. When we go out to eat and there's a lull in our conversation, one of will say that. Cracks us up.

It is pouring today, and I'm wearing bright pink suede shoes.  As I stepped in a puddle I thought about this episode where Ray says Debra always tells the story of when her feet sweated in purple shoes, which made her feet look like she was making wine :)

22 hours ago, Snow Apple said:

He even moans and groans at a free trip to Italy. 

I like Debra's response to Ray's complaint about his parents bothering them: (paraphrasing) "They're going to bother us anyway, they might as well bother us in Italy!"

[ShadowSixx]

On 5/12/2017 at 4:29 PM, CherryAmes said:

There was also the episode where Robert's girlfriend eats the fly and Robert goes off an a rant to Ray about how he is a "sniveling, insecure little man" and makes it seem like all Ray has ever done is try and ruin his life.  The only thing wrong Ray did was be born.  I admit there are some episodes where Ray isn't the world's greatest guy but he wasn't jealous of Robert and it drove me crazy when Robert acted like he was.

There was the episode Robert Needs Money when Ray goes to Robert's apartment to apologize about Robert no longer being his brother if he runs off to Vegas with his money. Robert says Ray can't stand to see him happy. Robert missed the damn point, he comes to Ray & Debra's house telling them a sad story about his financial situation so Debra & Ray give him $1000 to help him out with bills & food. Robert wants to go to Vegas with it and if I was Ray & Debra that would piss me off as well. Robert kind of implied that Ray didn't deserve the money he made and that luck played a part in his life. I would say that Ray is more ambitious than Robert and that's why Ray has what Robert wants.

Also in The Fly episode when Robert was going through his pity party about why he's always striking out with women. Let's see not gonna include Joanne because Joanne treated him like shit. Robert put Amy through the ringer and broke up with her numerous times when Amy wanted more out of the relationship. There was that time when things didn't work with Amy he calls Italy in hopes of reaching Stefania but got Marco who told him to drop dead. Stefania comes to the U.S. to be with Robert but Robert doesn't want her cause he can't live with her flaws. Even while married to Amy he shows more concern for Debra. 

In that episode Who's Next when Ray picked Bernie for Debra in case he died, Robert says he wasn't considered for Debra which Amy says she's standing right there and in another episode when Ray, Robert, Gianni, & Andy were at Marco's and Robert says he gets Debra if Ray died and in PT&A Robert remembers the dress Debra wore in front of Amy. 

[Snow Apple]

Does Robert pay alimony? Otherwise, I'm not sure why a cop who lives with his parents wouldn't have a nice savings account. Heck, I saved a good chunk of change as a teenager making minimum wage while living in my parent's home. But then I recall Robert loaning Ray money at  least once, so I guess his finances depends on the plot.

[tribeca]

My least favorite episode is the one where Robert and Ray argue about who their mom will live with after dad dies.    I hate everything about that conversation in the car.   

I always skip that one if it comes on.  Thought I erased it from my memory until I started reading all episodes thread.  It seems like if there was a reunion it would have to be Marie and Frank funeral.  I am not sure how the writers could make that funny.     

[msani19]

I don't think there would be a way to make a Frank/Marie funeral funny, although I'm not a comedy writer. I thought they producers said they wouldn't ever do a reunion show and this was before the loss of Doris, Peter, & Sawyer. I don't know that I'd want to see that. 

This is a show, that while I find it funny, I have a hard time rewatching. I've seen some episodes recently and I have to say that Ray INFURIATES me far more than ever! I'm certainly older so many many shows that I used to watch with little commentary, I watch now and think WTF. Ray is awful. He's beyond lazy, boring, not curious about anything outside of sports, selfish, self-absorbed. The quickness with which he'll toss Deborah under the bus to make sure that his family still loves him is terrible & cruel. But sure for the sake of laughs.

Life is complicated so maybe she wouldn't have divorced him, but I like to think she would have waited for the kids to graduate and then dumped him. What does he bring to the table? A paycheck? Whatever Ray. 

The undercurrent of homophobia is distinctly not funny. Frank constantly calling the boys Nancy or Mary grosses me out. I dislike the idea that comparing a man to a woman is an insult. Women rock! The way Frank screams for food...nope.  So many things jump out at me now in ways they might have before, but they are glaring to me now. 

I could go on about the homophobia and the sexism but I don't want to launch into an internet rant! 

[Maharincess]

3 hours ago, msani19 said:

I don't think there would be a way to make a Frank/Marie funeral funny, although I'm not a comedy writer. I thought they producers said they wouldn't ever do a reunion show and this was before the loss of Doris, Peter, & Sawyer. I don't know that I'd want to see that. 

This is a show, that while I find it funny, I have a hard time rewatching. I've seen some episodes recently and I have to say that Ray INFURIATES me far more than ever! I'm certainly older so many many shows that I used to watch with little commentary, I watch now and think WTF. Ray is awful. He's beyond lazy, boring, not curious about anything outside of sports, selfish, self-absorbed. The quickness with which he'll toss Deborah under the bus to make sure that his family still loves him is terrible & cruel. But sure for the sake of laughs.

Life is complicated so maybe she wouldn't have divorced him, but I like to think she would have waited for the kids to graduate and then dumped him. What does he bring to the table? A paycheck? Whatever Ray. 

The undercurrent of homophobia is distinctly not funny. Frank constantly calling the boys Nancy or Mary grosses me out. I dislike the idea that comparing a man to a woman is an insult. Women rock! The way Frank screams for food...nope.  So many things jump out at me now in ways they might have before, but they are glaring to me now. 

I could go on about the homophobia and the sexism but I don't want to launch into an internet rant! 

I agree, except that I hated Marie much more than Frank.  At least with Frank, you knew who and what he was. Marie would stick a knife in your back while giving you a compliment with a smile on her face. 

[msani19]

1 hour ago, Maharincess said:

I hated Marie much more than Frank.  At least with Frank, you knew who and what he was. Marie would stick a knife in your back while giving you a compliment with a smile on her face.

 

I didn't mean to leave Marie off my list! Marie is atrocious, devilish even. Petty, jealous, small, closed mind, rude, offensive, childish. The way she would say "dear"...just evil. How Doris Roberts could have been the sweetest woman in real life and play Marie is a testimony to her acting skill! I've read some "feminist" theories on Marie's behavior and positioning her as more of a tragic figure who behaved that way because her life was limited by traditional gender roles. Even so, she still was a terrible person! There's definitely something...troubling...about how the show portrayed the role of wives/mothers. 

The entire Barone clan makes me stabby! Robert was pretty terrible too but in some ways, I let him off slightly more than the rest of them. If his family, especially his horrible mother, hadn't completely crippled him & emotionally tortured him, he would have been successful and confident and independent. He had a great job and was well liked and respected. They constantly crapped all over everything in his life. Ray took advantage of his "favorite son" status to further his worst traits. He loved living so close to his parents, except for only when it was inconvenient for him - like having to give a crap about anyone other than himself. He wanted fawning and doting, with the most minimal of effort.

I was going to note that I occasionally enjoy the show, but then I remembered this is the least favorite thread, so I can continue to rail about the worst things in the show.

[Maharincess]

I had a hard Time watching the show because of Marie. She was just so damn horrible to everybody she came across. I saw no good qualities in her at all.  

Debra should have banned her from their house until Marie could act like a decent human being. I never found her character funny, I thought she was a straight up bitch. 

[ByTor]

3 hours ago, msani19 said:

Marie is atrocious, devilish even. Petty, jealous, small, closed mind, rude, offensive, childish.

At least she's not a homophobe :)

[ByTor]

9 hours ago, msani19 said:

Frank constantly calling the boys Nancy or Mary grosses me out. I dislike the idea that comparing a man to a woman is an insult. Women rock!

I'm a woman & I think it's funny.  When I'm being a wuss about something I always say to myself "Get off your pity pot, Nancy!" 

I do think, though, that Frank is the worst character on the show.  He's an ass, never has a nice thing to say about anybody, but what frosts me is that the show gives him moments when he actually does do/say something nice, and we're supposed to think "awwww, he really is sweet after all." 

[BlossomCulp]

I cut Frank a lot of slack where the "Nancy" comments are concerned.  Actually nothing aggravates me more when I am reading a book or watching a movie or TV show with people who were raised in a different time and place than having all of them talking and acting like the most enlightened examples of people you are going to find in 2017.  Hell you're not even going to find all that many truly enlightened people in 2017!  To me Frank was very much a product of his time and while I totally get why people might not find that funny, or even very likeable!, it does make him realistic.  These people all got worse (Amy being a shining exception) as the series progressed but they were still real people which is one of the reasons I like this show :).

[ByTor]

1 minute ago, BlossomCulp said:

I cut Frank a lot of slack where the "Nancy" comments are concerned.  Actually nothing aggravates me more when I am reading a book or watching a movie or TV show with people who were raised in a different time and place than having all of them talking and acting like the most enlightened examples of people you are going to find in 2017.  Hell you're not even going to find all that many truly enlightened people in 2017! 

Exactly.  In fact, I find Marie's acceptance of, as she put it, "the gay people" quite unusual for the reason you stated, @BlossomCulp, quite unusual.  For a character who is otherwise judgmental, I find this attribute very refreshing!

[msani19]

But wasn't Marie accepting of "the gay people" because she had a cousin or aunt that was gay? Would she have been that way without that? It probably was probably one of her few redeeming qualities. Did she have others? 

I totally understand that even though the show isn't that old, times or attitudes have changed (somewhat) so it jumps out in a way it didn't 20 years ago. Plus, I definitely agree that Frank would have been a product of his times so his behavior is consistent with a guy raised when he was. He's still an unmitigated asshole. I like your point about how we're supposed to give him a parade for NOT being a jerk occasionally. Why does he get credit for doing stuff he should do anyway! Stuff in the show stands out to me now way more than it did, even say 5 or 10 years ago.  But that's pretty true for almost all the shows I watched from the 90s. 

[ByTor]

31 minutes ago, msani19 said:

But wasn't Marie accepting of "the gay people" because she had a cousin or aunt that was gay?

Cousin Frieda...whose partner Midge ate all the meatballs at a party :)

32 minutes ago, msani19 said:

Would she have been that way without that?

Honestly, yes, I think she would have been, only because Marie seemed a little more "worldly."  She was interested in art, she did the French lessons on TV, she enjoyed literature and plays.  She certainly came a long way from the way she behaved in Season 1 when Debra's parents took them all to dinner at that nice French restaurant!

35 minutes ago, msani19 said:

It probably was probably one of her few redeeming qualities. Did she have others? 

Not really :)

[BlossomCulp]

15 hours ago, ByTor said:

Exactly.  In fact, I find Marie's acceptance of, as she put it, "the gay people" quite unusual for the reason you stated, @BlossomCulp, quite unusual.  For a character who is otherwise judgmental, I find this attribute very refreshing!

She also tried hard to be accepting when she thought Robert and Judy were dating.  Frank is openly horrified at the idea but Marie is standing there with this fixed, forced smile on her face saying things like "I wish I knew when this started so I could have been happy about this even longer" (or something like that!)  She was clearly NOT happy at all but she was willing to put her feelings aside if Robert was happy.  Of course this was early seasons Marie who was a lot more human and still had a few drops of human kindness in her.

Edited June 1, 2017 by BlossomCulp

[schnauzergirl]

I also find it hard to re-watch many of the ERL episodes.  Everybody grates on me at one time or another (just like real life), but the real reason is that Ray is not only infantile, but boring.  Frank and Marie are predicable, outrageous, and offensive at lot of the time, but they don't bore the socks off you.  Ray does.

[ByTor]

41 minutes ago, BlossomCulp said:

She also tried hard to be accepting when she thought Robert and Judy were dating.  Frank is openly horrified at the idea but Marie is standing there with this fixed, forced smile on her face saying things like "I wish I knew when this started so I could have been happy about this even longer"

I loved when Marie was like "Oh, is she black?"  

I do like Robert & Judy as friends, but I don't see them as a couple & I'm glad the show never went there.  Robert would get on Judy's nerves to the point where she'd have to smack him upside the head for all the whining he does!  Plus, I'd hate to see her saddled with him, I really like Judy!

Edited June 1, 2017 by ByTor

[ButterQueen]

The only episodes I don't like are the older Ally-centric episodes.  None of those kids could act.

Other than that, I love the show.

[Guest]

I watched the one last night where Frank and Marie were separated and got back together when Ray broke his arm.  Robert just comes across in that one as a borderline sociopath.  I know he and Ray weren't close, but sabotaging Ray's bike to purposely break his arm, and figuring if he died, Frank would come to the funeral is just so off.  Robert would have been a teenager, which is far too old for that type of shallow thinking.  It's weird and not funny to me.

[CherryAmes]

He was actually only supposed to be 10 (Ray plus 4) and they say Ray was 6 in that episode.   

[Guest]

Got it, for some reason (like I watched it late at night), I thought they said Ray was 10.  :)

[CherryAmes]

I'm sure the writers didn't intend us to take too much away from this episode but seeing a 10 yr old who looked at least 14-15 explained a lot about Robbie.  How hard must it have been for him growing up?  His parents barely noticed him and at school he must have towered over the other kids.  And no matter how well meaning most adults are they do tend to expect much more mature behavior from kids who look older than their actual age.  Being small for my age and a blue eyed blonde at that I, on the other hand, got away with murder!

[ByTor]

I loved that episode!  I really liked hearing that music from the western TV show (was it Wild Wild West?) in the background during the flashbacks.

[mmecorday]

Quote

The only episodes I don't like are the older Ally-centric episodes.  None of those kids could act.

Agreed. They were adorable, but acting was not their strong suit. It makes me incredibly sad to see the little boys knowing that one of them committed suicide.

I watched the one about Robert's proposal to Amy last night. I never much cared for Amy. I thought she was too shrill and controlling. I also get the feeling that she just wanted to be married. When her parents made it clear that they were not in favor of the engagement, she said. "But I want to get married!" not "But I want to marry Robert!"

[CherryAmes]

11 minutes ago, mmecorday said:

I also get the feeling that she just wanted to be married.

I did sometimes get that impression as well but it was Amy who broke up with Robert on at least two occasions which I was really glad that they did.  She had a line in the sand with him and she wasn't prepared to put up with all his crap just to be married!

[KLovestoShop]

I think Ray was the way he was because of Marie.  In my day, Ray would have been known as the quintessential mama's boy, and back then, guys like that found it hard to be married. Throughout the series, Ray only wanted to please his mama, and everyone else be damned.  Marie is nothing but a controlling buttinsky. 

Episodes I hate are the ones where Ray is a whiny baby, using the quote "You don't care about me" whenever he didn't get his way.  And Ray's obsession with being liked by everyone is annoying.  On the episode where the sportscaster "hated" Ray, I just wish Robert hadn't come to his defense, despite the fact that the sportscaster was obnoxious.  

The other shows I really won't watch are the ones featuring brother Peter.  I've never liked Chris Elliott in anything, so episodes like Peter On The Couch are no watch for me.  

[ByTor]

On 8/18/2017 at 2:54 PM, CherryAmes said:

 She had a line in the sand with him and she wasn't prepared to put up with all his crap just to be married!

But then she was stuck putting up with his crap once they were married :)

13 hours ago, KLovestoShop said:

The other shows I really won't watch are the ones featuring brother Peter.  I've never liked Chris Elliott in anything, so episodes like Peter On The Couch are no watch for me.

I liked Peter, but I'm sad they didn't continue with Paul Reubens as Russell, I thought he was hilarious! I think he would have played off "Hank nnnn Pat" really well.

Edited August 21, 2017 by ByTor

[Inquisitionist]

3 minutes ago, ByTor said:

I liked Peter, but I'm sad they didn't continue with Paul Reubens as Russell, I thought he was hilarious! I think he would have played off "Hank nnnn Pat" really well.

Reubens's one appearance as Russell was inspired, but I'm not sure that character's darkness would have played well in the long run.  It was all moot when Reubens was charged with possessing child pornography in 2002.  Romano reportedly did not want him on the show after that.

[CherryAmes]

2 hours ago, ByTor said:

But then she was stuck putting up with his crap once they were married :)

Oh my god was she!  When you watch the episodes post wedding there are quite a few where Robert is yelling at Amy or at least being his blowhard self.  There was one episode in particular when he is mad at her and says in a very nasty way "well SOMEBODY opened their big mouth".  I make no excuses for Ray, he was all kinds of stupid with Debra over the years in terms of his lying and laziness but I don't remember him ever talking to Debra like that.

Edited August 21, 2017 by CherryAmes

[ByTor]

2 hours ago, CherryAmes said:

Oh my god was she!  When you watch the episodes post wedding there are quite a few where Robert is yelling at Amy or at least being his blowhard self.  There was one episode in particular when he is mad at her and says in a very nasty way "well SOMEBODY opened their big mouth".  I make no excuses for Ray, he was all kinds of stupid with Debra over the years in terms of his lying and laziness but I don't remember him ever talking to Debra like that.

And I would NOT be thrilled by my husband's over the top interest in his sister-in-law!

Edited August 21, 2017 by ByTor

[CherryAmes]

Or him saying, right in front of me, that his life is ruined.  Nice, Robert.   You see your life as being ruined and you're married to me.  What a compliment.

[BlossomCulp]

On 8/21/2017 at 4:57 PM, ByTor said:

And I would NOT be thrilled by my husband's over the top interest in his sister-in-law!

The episode where he remembers exactly what Debra wore to a family party but could only come up with "you were ravishing in a *something or another* ensemble" when Amy asks him what she was wearing comes to mind!

Edited August 30, 2017 by BlossomCulp

[schnauzergirl]

I cringed when Robert said "My Stafania."  Amy gave him a look, but still ...

[BlossomCulp]

I loved that Amy considered Stefania a friend!

[Guest]

I hate the one where Frank paints the house. Frank and Marie start off completely out of line. Debra takes their side. They all guilt Ray into helping on his day off. Frank paints the house a different color than Ray and Debra wanted, and Debra is suddenly on board. She gets mad when Ray doesn't take her side, but this whole episode she keeps joining with his parents to undermine him. And then Marie lays a successful guilt trip on Ray.

[ByTor]

13 hours ago, deaja said:

I hate the one where Frank paints the house. Frank and Marie start off completely out of line. Debra takes their side. They all guilt Ray into helping on his day off. Frank paints the house a different color than Ray and Debra wanted, and Debra is suddenly on board. She gets mad when Ray doesn't take her side, but this whole episode she keeps joining with his parents to undermine him. And then Marie lays a successful guilt trip on Ray.

I hate Frank with his "Because I said it's better and that should be good enough" nonsense.  What's wrong with saying "Have you ever considered yellow?  It's sunny & will make the house pop against all the other white houses on the block".  Of course that's not a  Frank thing to say, which is why I like him the least.  Although, to give credit where it's due, I did like asking Robert & Ray why they're standing around, do they work for the government? :)

[CherryAmes]

I didn't mind Debra's attitude since they made it clear she had been asking Ray to arrange to have the house painted for months and he kept putting her off.  I totally agree though that Frank was even more of a jerk than usual.  And this episode brings up one of my pet peeves - where do Marie and Frank get the retirement money they are living so comfortably on?  If Frank was fired he must have gotten a settlement of some kind depending on how long he'd worked there and how their pension plan worked but he certainly would not be drawing the kind of pension from the company that someone who actually did retire would be getting.  I get that their house is paid off and they haven't bought furniture in years but their grocery bill alone must be huge!!!  And Robbie lived there for years rent free.

Edited September 14, 2017 by CherryAmes

[ByTor]

1 hour ago, CherryAmes said:

 If Frank was fired he must have gotten a settlement of some kind depending on how long he'd worked there and how their pension plan worked but he certainly would not be drawing the kind of pension from the company that someone who actually did retire would be getting.

If Frank behaved at work like he did at home, they probably told him "We'll give you your full pension, anything you want, if you just get the hell out of here!" :)

[BlossomCulp]

6 hours ago, ByTor said:

If Frank behaved at work like he did at home, they probably told him "We'll give you your full pension, anything you want, if you just get the hell out of here!" :)

Lol.  And if he was fired it had to be so close to retirement age anyway that he may have been entitled to a pretty decent pension anyway.  That said though I admit I always wondered too where the hell the older Barones got their money.  They were a one income family and while Frank worked as an accountant you never get the feeling he was high up in the company and making big money.

[Maharincess]

On 9/13/2017 at 8:52 PM, deaja said:

I hate the one where Frank paints the house. Frank and Marie start off completely out of line. Debra takes their side. They all guilt Ray into helping on his day off. Frank paints the house a different color than Ray and Debra wanted, and Debra is suddenly on board. She gets mad when Ray doesn't take her side, but this whole episode she keeps joining with his parents to undermine him. And then Marie lays a successful guilt trip on Ray.

My least favorite Frank episode is the one where he crashes the car into Ray and Debra's house. I hated the way he refused to pay and wanted them to cheat their insurance so he could make money on crashing into their house. 

I also hated Marie. Her guilt trips and manipulation where she would pretend to limp out of the room used to piss me off. Marie made it really hard for me to watch the show sometimes. She was just so horrible to Debra. 

[ByTor]

13 hours ago, BlossomCulp said:

They were a one income family and while Frank worked as an accountant you never get the feeling he was high up in the company and making big money.

He even specified in one episode that he was a bookkeeper, so that would be a lower salary.

[Guest]

I think Frank and Marie were from a generation that saved a lot.  There big expenses would have been food and mortgage, which we know they paid off after retirement.  Frank also at one point worked as a realtor on the side.  I don't think they regularly took big trips or did expensive things.  Their furniture was old, their house wasn't fancy, and they seemed to share one older car. And while they bought a lot of food, they probably didn't buy much pre-packaged/prepared food that costs more overall - Marie cooked.  So a modest pension from Frank's company, social security, and their savings probably was more than enough to live on.  (Would Frank have also gotten a supplement for being a war vet?) 

[BlossomCulp]

37 minutes ago, deaja said:

 (Would Frank have also gotten a supplement for being a war vet?) 

I can't speak for the US or the Korean War but my FIL and my grandfather were both WWII vets here in Canada and they did receive a veteran's pension as well as a few other benefits because of their war time service.

[schnauzergirl]

On 9/15/2017 at 5:13 AM, Maharincess said:

My least favorite Frank episode is the one where he crashes the car into Ray and Debra's house. I hated the way he refused to pay and wanted them to cheat their insurance so he could make money on crashing into their house. 

I also hated Marie. Her guilt trips and manipulation where she would pretend to limp out of the room used to piss me off. Marie made it really hard for me to watch the show sometimes. She was just so horrible to Debra. 

Actually, Marie was the one who backed the car into Ray and Debra's house.  The rest is pure Frank.

[Mrs. Hanson]

On 5/26/2017 at 7:32 PM, Snow Apple said:

Does Robert pay alimony? Otherwise, I'm not sure why a cop who lives with his parents wouldn't have a nice savings account. Heck, I saved a good chunk of change as a teenager making minimum wage while living in my parent's home. But then I recall Robert loaning Ray money at  least once, so I guess his finances depends on the plot.

A little late with a response but I remember thinking the same thing!  Robert, you are a cop who can pick up extra shifts, work off duty security......c'mon!  He didn't need an expensive array of suits, either!  Of course he had his lucky suit......