Some People Are Indifferent To Raymond: Your Least Favorite Moments

[Inquisitionist]

How much it cost is one the most important aspects of the gift, in her mind.

 

I haven't seen this one for a while, but I thought Marie was initially touched that "the boys" found these statues for her, then shocked when she learned how much they cost.  With the toaster, I don't think cost entered into it -- she had a toaster that (in her mind) worked fine, and she wanted a coffee maker instead.

[ShadowSixx]

I also disliked "The Canister" episode all because of Debra, surprise surprise. Marie asks Debra if she still has her canister that she lent her and Debra said no but Marie tells her that it's not at her house so it has to be where she last seen it. Debra is so positive that she gave it back and gets upset that Marie is calling her a liar so Marie apologizes for it and leaves it at that. Finds out that Debra had it all along because she let Ally have it so Ally can put her crayons in it. Instead of standing up and telling Marie that she has it, she guilts Ray and Robert into keeping it a secret and told Ray, "You'll do as I say." Then Frank ends up taking the rap for her.

 

That episode where Ray is bothered by Debra touching him in bed. I can't blame him because you see the way Debra is sleeping on him, she practically pushes him right off the bed. Then she's upset because Ray doesn't want her to touch him and he rather she stay on her side of the bed and tells him that he needs help for his problem. There's no problem at all for wanting your own space in the bed. When I'm sleeping I like my space to and don't invade it. Ray goes to Father Hubbly (however his name is spelled) and takes his advice about showing affection to her. So Debra takes this as her means to get all up on Ray again while they go to bed. We see another example as why Ray wants her to stay on her side cause she's clawing at his face and has her knee all between Ray's legs. Who can sleep like that?

[CherryAmes]

Finds out that Debra had it all along because she let Ally have it so Ally can put her crayons in it. Instead of standing up and telling Marie that she has it, she guilts Ray and Robert into keeping it a secret and told Ray, "You'll do as I say."

 

I completely bought why Debra would not have wanted to admit she had the canister all along - I'd never want to give Marie Barone any more ammunition to use against me either!  Actually I think this episode is one of the best in the series.  The writing and the acting were all stellar but Patty Heaton just owned this one.  I also loved that Frank cared enough about Debra that he intervened and took the blame.  It was a nice touch.

[Guest]

I completely bought why Debra would not have wanted to admit she had the canister all along - I'd never want to give Marie Barone any more ammunition to use against me either!  Actually I think this episode is one of the best in the series.  The writing and the acting were all stellar but Patty Heaton just owned this one.  I also loved that Frank cared enough about Debra that he intervened and took the blame.  It was a nice touch.

I agree. I love this episode so much.  Debra gets on my nerves a lot, but I still loved this episode.  Ray wearing his winter coat on a warm day, Marie's scolding of "that's not Easter language," the canister mysteriously re-appearing, etc.  I feel like all involved from the actors to the writers were really on top of their game in that episode.

[CleoCaesar]

The episode where someone sneezed on Raymond is on right now. How Debra doesn't kill Marie and file for divorce is beyond me. What a disgusting mama's boy. He literally acts like a 6-year-old for no good reason. Seriously, it's just gross behavior. And doubly disappointing that the show "validates" Raymond by giving him strep throat in the end.

[Milk-Eyed Mender]

The Sneeze is snoozeville for me, right up there with Crazy Chin and The Janitor as a completely missable episode. In contrast, I'm watching Dancing With Debra right now and those choreographed dance scenes never get old. Both Ray and Robert are surprisingly light on their feet.

[Inquisitionist]

I'm watching Dancing With Debra right now and those choreographed dance scenes never get old.

 

I'm smiling just thinking about them!

[BooksRule]

I just saw the episode where Ray refused to buy the dress for Ally to wear to Peggy's daughter's birthday party.  The whole premise just makes me mad.  Who in their right mind would actually send out invitations that insist that all the girls buy identical (except for the color, I guess) dresses to wear to the party?  I really hated all of the episodes that Peggy was on (except for the one scene where Ray catches her at Peter's apartment--I wish Peggy and Peter would have ended up together, but I don't think she was seen after that).  I have nothing against the actress who plays her (Amy Aquino, I think.  I've seen her in tons of stuff I liked), but I disliked 'Peggy the cookie lady'.

Edited July 20, 2014 by BooksRule

[ByTor]

Same here @BooksRule , I liked the actress but for the most part couldn't stand Peggy.  Although like you, I did like her when she dated Peter.  I like to imagine that they ended up happily ever after.

[ShadowSixx]

Peggy was a beast in that "Cookie" episode and the party dress episode. Why is it that nobody called Ray to tell him that the children weren't going to wear the dresses? Ally getting all mad at Ray cause she was the only one in it made no sense, she's the one who threw the fit about getting the dress. When Ray got it for her she got all happy. I did like when Ray didn't like how much the dress was cause she was only gonna wear it once but decided to buy it for her anyway cause he seen how much she wanted it.

I'm kind of up and down on "The Contractor" episode. I like it when Debra complains to Ray about Gianni watching The Price is Right and Gianni comes over the next day with the new stove when Ray is there and he pulls out the t.v. and The Price is Right theme starts to play which was funny. Ray & Gianni's argument over the cost of fixing/replacing/returning the stove was funny too. What I didn't like was Frank getting all bent out of shape over Gianni fixing the stove when he has a history of breaking Ray & Debra's things when he tries to fix them like their washing machine, but he didn't want to fix their garage door that Marie asked him to fix. Also Debra hiring Gianni but wanting Ray to fire him and saying how she doesn't need Ray's say so in Gianni's firing, the decision is all hers. If the decisions are all hers then she should have fired Gianni and not tell Ray that he had to.

[CherryAmes]

What bothered me about the party dress episode was that Allie had no idea that the plans had been changed.  For the most part ELR was pretty good about the storylines making sense but they really blew it there IMO.  First expecting all the girls to wear the same expensive dress to a party thrown by a friend was dumb but ok let's accept that premise as otherwise we have no episode, but to then go on to assume that a 12-13 yr old girl would not be talking to her other friends especially her best friend who was giving the party?  Just no, made no sense whatsoever.  Where was Allie all this time, hiding in a cave?  And after that really sweet moment between Allie and Ray and then Debra getting excited and helping Allie get ready to have it all for nothing, it just bothered me so much.  I didn't find it funny at all.

Edited July 23, 2014 by CherryAmes

[ShadowSixx]

I didn't like the "Boob Job" episode either. IDK why Debra went through all that trouble just to get Ray to say that he likes big breasts on a woman. Ray has never complained to anyone about Debra's breasts or her body, he knows that she's a beautiful woman and even said so. So why she did this was beyond me. It didn't stop Debra from criticizing Ray's body talking about his stomach and his ass.

 

The "Can Opener" story, who's story do you believe more. They were both exaggerating a great bit but I believe a little more of Ray's events of the story and I'm explain why. In Debra's story she paints Ray as the bad guy coming home angry, slamming cabinets, and talking to Debra all crazy. Which for one we know damn well Ray always comes homes and gives Debra a cute nickname like "jelly cheeks" and he knows not to talk to Debra all crazy and when is she ever gonna cry when Ray talks to her like that? Ray's story is more believable, Debra for the most part is always in a bad mood and he isn't exaggerating by much from his story.

Edited July 31, 2014 by ShadowSixx

[ByTor]

I didn't like the "Boob Job" episode either. IDK why Debra went through all that trouble just to get Ray to say that he likes big breasts on a woman. Ray has never complained to anyone about Debra's breasts or her body, he knows that she's a beautiful woman and even said so. So why she did this was beyond me. It didn't stop Debra from criticizing Ray's body talking about his stomach and his ass.

Plus, when Debra took the socks out, her breast size didn't exactly decrease, so I don't understand what she was feeling so insecure about in the 1st place.

[CherryAmes]

Ray's story is more believable, Debra for the most part is always in a bad mood and he isn't exaggerating by much from his story.

 

Ray's story didn't paint Debra as being in a bad mood, it painted her as being gross (she licked the fork she then passed over to him to use) and it painted her as negligent (she ignored the kids running wild).  Debra may not be perfect but she's not a pig and she's not a mom who sits reading a book oblivious to the chaos around her!  There is a germ of truth in both stories and a lot of exaggeration.  If there are people out there thinking one was more believable than the other than they didn't write that episode as well as they should have!

 

Plus, when Debra took the socks out, her breast size didn't exactly decrease, so I don't understand what she was feeling so insecure about in the 1st place.

 

Which is hardly surprising considering Patty Heaton had a little work done over the summer break and came back to this episode being the first one of that season!  I always wondered how she felt about doing an episode that essentially said getting plastic surgery was a bad idea when she'd just gone and had plastic surgery!

 

This was also one of those episodes that was based on something that actually happened to one of the writers.

Edited August 1, 2014 by CherryAmes

[SusannahTaylor3]

The later episodes where Robert was lusting after Debra. The one that comes to mind is when Robert suggests that Ray get Debra a 1st edition book for Christmas. Debra is so touched that Ray actually remembered that it was her favorite book. Robert couldn't take it and burst out that it was him who suggested the book. It was so important for him that she knew that. Also Robert got worse as the seasons went on. I don't know what Amy saw in him towards the end. She must have something others didn't. I was amazed that she kept going back to him. When I was dating if I broke up with someone that was it. She kept going back in hopes that he would change. She reminds me of one of my girlfriends who just wanted to be married because everyone else was. She's very unhappy in her marriage and is sorry she was so desperate to get married.  Robert was bitter, angry, and vindictive towards Ray and it made him happy to see Ray in hot water with Debra. In the earlier seasons he was a much better person. He still had his bitter feelings towards Ray but he was still very goodhearted. Towards the end of the series, he even turned on Debra. An example is when Ray got the special degree and forgot to mention Debra. Robert was gleeful that Ray messed up but didn't think how that would hurt Debra too. He just wanted to get Ray at whatever cost.

[ShadowSixx]

Robert was just petty and it's why I never felt sorry for him as the seasons went on. He even laughed at Ray and Debra when Frank and Marie crashed through their house. Frank and Marie didn't make matters better either with Frank not even caring that Marie ran into the house, more worried about his car and Marie just forever being Marie.

 

I have mixed feelings on the whole Marie/Debra not speaking to each other for a while, but I was completely on Debra's side on this one. Debra trying to get the twins upstairs to take a bath and Marie just comes over with her friends without even knocking, sees Debra is having a hard time but insist that the twins tell a knock knock joke instead of saying, she'll come back later when things were not so hectic. She gives Debra the silent treatment, even though Marie was in the wrong and not Debra. Marie's "apology" if we can call it that was just nothing but criticism saying that when she came over she should have known better because by mid-afternoon Debra has lost complete control of her children and saying that her house was dirty. When Debra goes to apologize, Marie doesn't want to accept because Ray and Debra had sex while they were dating years ago.

 

Lois was irksome when Debra started calling Marie Mom. She likes it when Ray calls her mom but Debra couldn't call Marie mom. Shut up Lois.

[ByTor]

The more I watch the Italy two-parter, the more I dislike it for the way Ray and Debra were written so out of character.  Granted Ray could be a whiny baby, but I find it very hard to believe he'd be such a pain in the ass throughout most of the trip.  And it really irked me that once he decided he was ready to have a good time, everybody was supposed to just forget how he basically ruined the rest of the trip.  As far as Debra goes, we all know she came from an upper middle class family in CT.  That being said, there is NO WAY she would have done that thing where she spoke very slow and loud in English to Marie's cousin (YOU...HAVE...A...LOVELY...HOME!)

[CherryAmes]

Bytor, that's interesting.  I never picked up on that before but you're absolutely right.  I don't recall if it is ever explicitly stated that Debra has had a chance to travel before she married Ray but you assume she probably did as there is money in the family and at one point she tells her mother "you opened up the whole world for me" which, while it may not have meant they did a complete world tour does suggest that Debra had the chance to experience life outside Lynnbrook, NY!

[ByTor]

I agree, @CherryAmes . In fact there were many jokes for how much Debra's parents traveled, so although not explicitly stated, I would infer that Debra would have gone with them (unless they didn't start traveling until retirement).  But even if she didn't, I would imagine her upbringing would have given her the sense not to do what she did.

Edited August 18, 2014 by ByTor

[Guest]

I hate the part in PT&A where Frank is ogling Debra. He has said previously that he thinks of her as a daughter, so it was just gross to me how he was like "I prefer this show" and clearly wanted to see her like that.  It's bad enough when Robert did it, but even worse for a father-figure to do it.

 

I also hate the episode "The Babysitter."  From Debra acting like having help around the help 3 days a week is a total necessity to her then total jealousy when she thinks the kids prefer the babysitter.  It's all ridiculous.

[CherryAmes]

I thought it was ridiculous that Debra needed what amounted to full time help but I always understood why she was jealous.  Been there.  It's not fun.  And no matter how mature and reasonable you try to be about it, it does sting when the kids say they prefer the babysitter!

[BubblingKettle]

I dislike the episode in which Amy and Robert get back together and Amy "goes all the way" for the first time.  Marie's behavior, as well as the effect it has on her sons, just ruins the whole episode for me.  It's none of Marie's business if Amy (in her 30's) chose to sleep with Robert, and the guilt-tripping was just too much.  Then, neither Robert nor Raymond told their mother to stand down.  

 

I guess my annoyed feelings began earlier in the episode when Robert and Amy were paralyzed with embarrassment when neighbors could see into their bedroom.  They were so devastated, Robert ended up moving into Ray's basement.  Again with the overabundance of guilt.  

 

I know that the Romanos are portrayed as church-going Catholics (and many of us know that song and dance when it comes to guilt trips), but the brothers are in their late 30's, and Marie's reaction to Robert and Amy was as if they were 16-year-olds.

[CherryAmes]

By the time Robert gets together with Amy he is in his 40s.  If you go by the episode where he's dating the younger girl (who turns out to be a teenager) Robert is 43 in that one which makes him 41 when he and Amy sleep together for the first time.  Her embarrassment I could completely understand but Robert should have just been angry at Marie for butting in where she didn't belong.  It's silly too because in the first season episode where Robert and Amy date for the first time they stay out all night and even though Robert does tell Marie and Frank nothing happened it wasn't like Marie was upset at the idea that something might have.  She was just glad he was seeing someone.

Edited October 24, 2014 by CherryAmes

[zxy556575]

This isn't a particular episode, but for a character who's ostensibly from Connecticut, Heaton sure lets her own Midwestern accent fly. Bugs me every single time.

[ByTor]

This isn't really a least favorite moment per se, but in the throw away moments when they would play music or sing, I never liked the songs!  For example:

 

Debra crying to that Ice Castles song;

In the same episode, Raymond dancing to Lady Marmalade;

In Raybert, Raymond running down the steps singing Beach Baby;

Raymond singing "Debra Made Something Good" when she made the braciole;

Raymond singing In the Ghetto in one of the early Christmas episodes

In The Babysitter, Raymond singing Loving You.

 

I guess the only ones I did like were Jungle Love from Snow Day and Robert singing Love Machine in Debra's Workouts. 

[CherryAmes]

In Raybert, Raymond running down the steps singing Beach Baby

 

Considering he'd just put the kids to  bed that moment with him singing *loudly* was particularly dumb!

[ShadowSixx]

In the episode "Getting Even" where Ray "humiliated" Debra when her jewelry box fell apart. I was asking myself why was she putting that box together like last minute when she was gluing the door together. I was like how long did she actually let that thing set before trying to auction it off? Most jewelry boxes like the one Debra made with the door has door hinges which hers didn't, she just put glue on wood.

[ByTor]

I watch "Getting Even" for one reason only...the shot of the nuns when Ray says he should be afraid because everything his wife touches falls off.

[ShadowSixx]

I liked when Ray was worried that Debra was going to get him in the kitchen that he bumped into the wall.

[ShadowSixx]

I absolutely hated the Christmas photo episode. It was so bad because of everyone's behavior minus the kids, Ray, Warren, and Lois. Everyone else were jackasses. 

 

I'll start with Debra who just cornered Ray about a new tradition of driving back and forth to Connecticut. She didn't discuss this with Ray and she asked Marie for permission like she needed Marie's go ahead to do it. When Marie makes a big stink out of it she looks at Ray and wants him to make a decision right then and there. If she wanted to change the original tradition then she should have sat down with Ray and talked to him about it, not put him on the spot. Then she invites her parents to be in the family photo which Ray didn't care if they were in the picture or not but he didn't like being blindsided because he knew how Marie was going to react to it, plus the gift was for Marie, it wasn't a gift for the whole family.

 

Then Marie acts like a bitch as usual, first with acting like Debra's new tradition was gonna be such a burden to her. She would see the kids on Christmas just later in the morning at around 10a. I don't think most grandparents mind not seeing their grandchildren open the gifts, as long as they get to see them on that day, which Marie was going to get. Then her attitude during the whole picture thing acting like Warren and Lois weren't family and it was their fault for showing up when they were invited. She took it out on Ray telling him to talk to Debra when Marie could have opened her mouth since she loves to criticize so much.

 

Frank & Robert were just rude towards Lois and Warren. Frank for just down talking Warren to Ray and Robert calling them names and upset that Amy isn't in the picture when Amy wasn't family at that point in time and then refused to change his shirt. That's why I'm glad Ray got the last laugh when he told Marie that Robert got her a hammock. 

 

I really don't understand why Frank and Marie treat Lois and Warren the way they do. I don't understand Lois and Warren never treated them bad or talked negatively of them. Was it their lifestyle of traveling the world? That made them horrible people?

Edited August 10, 2015 by ShadowSixx

[ByTor]

I really don't understand why Frank and Marie treat Lois and Warren the way they do. I don't understand Lois and Warren never treated them bad or talked negatively of them. Was it their lifestyle of traveling the world? That made them horrible people?

My sister is a big Raymond fan, and she always says the same thing.

Robert is the one who seems ok with them, at least with Warren. I love when those two go off to get drunk during Thanksgiving.

Edited August 11, 2015 by ByTor

[Inquisitionist]

Robert is the one who seems ok with them, at least with Warren. I love when those two go off to get drunk during Thanksgiving.

 

Re going to Marco's for a slice:

 

Warren:  They have other things there?

Robert:  Full bar.

Warren: You drive!

 

I also love Frank's questioning why Warren is dating an older woman:  You're still handsome, nice tan, you've got all your teeth and then some.

 

When Warren laughs at that, it really looks like Robert Culp is trying not to crack up completely.  Love it!

[girltwin57]

I hate the episode when Robert twarted a robbery and Raymond got the credit. I hate all episodes when Marie clearly shows she loves Raymond more! The one where Marie wouldn't let Robert eat a piece of chicken saying she saved it for Raymond. Some children have actually gone through that and it's not funny at all....And the absolute worse is the one when Frank's records were destroyed, and Robert talks about how he felt getting shoes for Christmas while Raymond got a race car set! I really cried.....

[ByTor]

The one where Marie wouldn't let Robert eat a piece of chicken saying she saved it for Raymond.

I got criticized for saying this, the rationale being that Robert was in the wrong to ask for the chicken since Marie already made food for Robert. I still say it's appalling that she'd rather throw food in the trash than give it to Robert.

[Homily]

That episode bothered me because Robert didn't seem to be the least bit grateful for all the food Marie had prepared for him.  You certainly are not given the impression that Robert actually PAID for any of the ingredients that went into that giant pile of casseroles and other dishes.  But nooooo does he appreciate it at all?  Not once he realizes that along with everything she did for him she made chicken for Raymond.  Clearly whatever Raymond was getting was something he should be getting too.

[BogoGog24]

I think some people are taking it far too seriously. The idea is it's supposed to be funny that Marie would rather throw the chicken in the trash than give it to Robert. It's ridiculous which is what makes it funny. The majority of jokes and family dynamic in the show is exactly like that and the dynamic between Robert and Ray is in fact based on Ray's real life brother.

[ByTor]

I think some people are taking it far too seriously. The idea is it's supposed to be funny that Marie would rather throw the chicken in the trash than give it to Robert. It's ridiculous which is what makes it funny.

In my opinion, it's TOO ridiculous (not to mention mean) to be funny.

[CherryAmes]

The episode where Ray gives Debra  the first edition of To Kill a Mockingbird was just on and all I wanted to do was to kill Robert.  What a loud, jealous jerk he was!  At the beginning when he makes a scene when he learns that Ray paid more for the statuettes for Marie than he did and is demanding to know why Ray did that all I wanted was for Ray to yell back "Because a few months ago you were eating baloney pie and orange juice like an animal!"

[ByTor]

I say it EVERY TIME I see that episode and I'll say it again. Nobody would have known Raymond paid more if Robert didn't open his big yap, so exactly HOW did that make Raymond a glory hog???

[CherryAmes]

I say it EVERY TIME I see that episode and I'll say it again. Nobody would have known Raymond paid more if Robert didn't open his big yap, so exactly HOW did that make Raymond a glory hog???

 

And no one ever calls Robert out on this crap when he pulls it.  Not even Ray.  So irritating!  The episode where Robert's date eats the fly is one of my favourites but when Robert starts yelling at Ray and says "you're such a sniveling little insecure man, you'll do anything to keep me from having what you have" I keep waiting for someone to point out that Ray is not the one who is insecure and jealous but no one does.  Robert can say hateful things and it just gets a pass.  .

[Homily]

Robert was such a sweet character when the show first started.  He genuinely loved Ray and his family and even though he was jealous of him he knew it was his problem not Ray's.  Somewhere along the line that changed though and as you guys have noted there are times when he is yelling and blustering and accusing Ray of basically being him!  Ray isn't jealous of Robert and he has no need to be a "glory hog". 

 

Marie already adores him and just knowing he remembered the statuettes would have been enough for her. In that episode Robert's behavior ruined Marie's birthday. almost ruined Ray and Debra's Christmas and ended up spoiling Amy's Christmas a little too.  In the episode where Ray forgot to thank Debra, although Debra was upset she wasn't going to let it ruin Ray's day - it was Robert who was so delighted that Ray screwed up who couldn't keep his mouth shut and ended up making a big scene.

 

Of course in that episode it was Marie's jealousy that ruined Ray's sweet apology to Debra.  Guess it's not hard to see where Robert's issues come from!

Edited April 24, 2016 by Homily

[BogoGog24]

There was that episode though "Somebody Hates Raymond," where at first Robert delighted in the fact that that sports guy hated Ray, but then when the guy acted mean to Ray, Robert stood up for him and defended him.

[ByTor]

I guess their relationship is one of those (not uncommon) family things where "I can say whatever I want, but you better think twice about saying anything."

[Homily]

That was a pretty good episode as they did show Robert rejoicing in the idea that someone didn't like Ray  but when Robert saw how hurt Ray was by the guy's attitude he had a change of heart.  Which was nice to see,  Still Robert is pretty consistent in most episodes about being pretty happy when things don't go well for Ray ("you have to share with us...when you fail") kind of thing.

[BogoGog24]

One episode that I've never liked is "Angry Sex." While it was a known fact throughout the series how much Ray liked sex, I thought this kind of went overboard and painted his character in a really bad light, to the point it might even be out of character for him. To make your wife angry on purpose for sexual pleasure is just far too dark and twisted for a comedy.

[KLovestoShop]

I hate the Super Bowl episode. Debra was such a freaking bitch. How could she not know that the reporters who go there work part of the time, and play golf for the other part? She had no business expecting Ray to spend every waking moment with her. That's not how it works.

[zxy556575]

I always skip Big Shots when it comes on in syndication -- it's the one where Ray and Robert go to the Baseball Hall of Fame. They bicker the entire time and it's too much without anyone else from the family there to be funny or cut the tension. And both of them act like asses.

Edited April 26, 2016 by lordonia

[Homily]

The channel I watch ELR on has just cycled back to the first season and while all the characters developed and changed as the seasons progressed it's most noticeable in Robert.  In the episodes I've just seen he comes across as insecure, jealous of Ray and  a bit of a sad sack but he was also sweet and loveable.  Contrast to later seasons Robert where he's loud and obnoxious.  I swear I don't think there was an episode in the last two seasons where he wasn't shouting at someone about something. 

Edited May 23, 2016 by Homily

[CherryAmes]

Quote

  I swear I don't think there was an episode in the last two seasons where he wasn't shouting at someone about something.

 There was one I saw recently where he yelled at Amy,  and said something like "well someone opened their giant mouth" -- which was ironic considering how often Robert is the one shooting his mouth trying to get Ray in trouble but which was also typical of the later seasons Robert.  Ray is always being considered a lousy husband, especially by Robert, but while Ray didn't always treat Debra well I can't offhand think of a time when he yelled at her. 

[GreekGeek]

People have already mentioned many examples of the characters' behavior that I didn't like. I know this one is a classic and it's based on Ray Romano's real life, but...I always found Marie's reaction to the Fruit of the Month gift unconvincing. She regularly feeds three men who are hearty eaters, plus Debra, the kids and herself. I don't understand why she thinks they'll never finish all that fruit.