S26: Caramoan

[Whimsy]

Here is your Survivor S26 topic.

[ratherbereading]

So I am up to Season 26 in my Survivor re-watch.

 

So far, my favorite Phillip line? "I play basketball against guys twice my height." (I know he likely meant to say twice my age but never realized exactly what he said). The thought of 12 foot tall (plus) basketball players? Had me rolling.

 

I found Corrine oddly likable in my initial viewing, and so far, nothing has changed my mind.

 

The only thing that is bearable about watching mini-Hantz? Is knowing he is voted out in episode five. I remain true to my vow to never watch another Survivor if it features ANY member of the Hantz family. I may read spoilers and pick it up after the Hantz person gets voted out. I just find them all unpleasant. I would rather watch HWSNBN from Season 6 of TAR again than any other Hantz.

[BK1978]

great example of 3a! Brenda got screwed by winning that challenge.

 

Below is just some babbling about Survivor: Caramoan's Brenda, Dawn, etc...

 

I didn't start watching Survivor until 5 or so years ago and binged them all in a short period of time. I didn't pay that close attention to them and was likely influenced heavily by the edit. After watching the past 2 seasons in real time more closely and reading about them here, I've paid closer attention to the show, strategy, and edit. I've recently re-watched some of the seasons.

 

Brenda and Dawn are interesting players and both seem like flawed humans but I don't think either are "good" or "bad" but a mix of good and bad (just like all humans). I recently re-watched "Fabio's" season and Caramoan. It wasn't until the very end of Caramoan that I realized that Brenda was from Fabio's year and that she was one of the kind-of-mean girls who was best friends with Naonka (she laughed with Naonka about amputee Kelley and while not overtly cruel she was passively cruel imo and IIRC). However on Caramoan she redeemed her image until FTC (teeth thing) however I understand her motives at FTC and while I don't think it was totally out of spite but more to show that Dawn was lying. I liked Brenda in Caramoan but not in Nicaragua. She wasn't extremely prominent in Caramoan since she more more low-key until toward the end. Plus there was so much other drama going on that she wasn't directly involved in.

 

Dawn couldn't have won against Brenda and so I can understand her getting rid of her however her game was so bad (get to the end but can't win) that I don't know what she could have done different at that point in the game except play for #2 and keep Brenda. Maybe in Dawn talked to Eric and said, we can't win against Brenda and I can't vote against her but you may want to….not sure.

 

Dawn annoyed me but I understand her. I think she was similar to Brendon in that she couldn't control her emotions. She released them by crying and she was emotionally unstable. I don't think she intentionally cried and she ended up seeming to others like she was a basket case and emotionally manipulative. Imo she came across as selfish--so wrapped up in her emotions and ignored the impact they had on others. I guess she ran into the jungle to cry alone so she wasn't 100% selfish. What's strange is that for a woman so worried about how she appeared to others (dentures or partials or whatever teeth thing) she didn't realized how bad it would look for her to cut Brenda even though strategically it made sense (but didn't make sense in that she couldn't' win the game with or without her imo). I guess she wasn't self aware enough to realized she couldn't win if she got to the end with any of them (unless it was just a finale two and it was her and Sherri but it wasn't a final two). Maybe she could have gone for a scenario where at F4 the others pick her over Brenda but still, I don't see how she could have won since she couldn't win against Cochran and is she cut Cochran then it would almost be as bad as her cutting Brenda (Cochran was her therapist).

 

Dawn didn't bully Corrine. Corrine came to Dawn wanting Dawn to switch to be #5 or 6 of a 5 or 6 person alliance). Corrine approached Dawn and why wouldn't Dawn tell her alliance about it since she is in a better spot with her own alliance and then they could thwart the flipping of the bottom (Malcolm, Reynold, Eddie, Corrine). Plus Corrine did the same with Sherri and both Sherri and Dawn told on Corrine. When watching it I was disappointed since I didn't like Phillip and I like watching the bottom flip however I think Dawn and Sherri made the right call for their game.

 

Cochran played an awesome game and his speeches/answers at the FTC were great. The first time watching that season I didn't appreciate what a great game he played.

 

Why did Erik have medical problems? He went to every reward, had rice and beans and survivor is only 39 days long. They implied starvation but I don't see how he was starving with all the rewards.

 

I thought I would bring this over here from the other thread because this has more to do with this season.  I remember on TWOP I was damn near crucified (Well saying that is a bit dramatic but people strongly disagreed with me.) when I said I disliked Brenda and thought she was a bully when she was on Nicaragua and that I enjoyed seeing what happened to her on this season.  As you said I found her to be very much the mean girl during Nicaragua.

 

She was basically a non-entity during this season and everyone was saying how she had changed but then came the FTC and she did the whole teeth thing and I felt justified for not liking her.  Because when it comes to these shows I sometimes forget what exactly happened so I was thinking maybe Brenda was not that bad her first time around.  But her petty reaction at FTC reminded me that she indeed the mean girl that I thought she was.

[Runningwild]

I've been rewatching seasons also. The thing that got me about Brenda during this season was when she was bragging about how humble she was. Um, no. You weren't. And the teeth thing at FTC was a bit much. 

[ForeverAlone]

Yeah, I recently rewatched Caramoan, and it is definitely a weird season in some ways. And the FTC was even more uncomfortable than I remembered. 

[NutMeg]

On 4/30/2016 at 1:14 PM, Runningwild said:

I've been rewatching seasons also. The thing that got me about Brenda during this season was when she was bragging about how humble she was. Um, no. You weren't. And the teeth thing at FTC was a bit much. 

She wasn't exactly bragging about how humble she was, she was telling her father (who we can assume had a beef with how she played in her first season) that this time around she was playing closer to the humble person he wanted her to play as. And therein lies the problem, in multiples ways: 1) she was trying be be someone she's not, and any suppression/compression that is kept on for long enough leads to an explosion; 2) the Brenda the public and TPTB wanted to see was the one from her first season, with the normal tweaks that come with playing a second time.

This may seem like a weird comparison, but she's like potentially talented writers who sabotage themselves because they know their parents won't like what they have it in them to write. I think her father really did her a disservice by being so obviously unhappy with how she behaved herself on her first round, and then she did herself a disservice by letting him get into her head to the extend that, instead of playing to win, she played for her father's approval. I'm actually glad we got the family visit that season, otherwise I would still be scratching my head about why the suddenly invisible Brenda. That's the weirdest family dynamics I've seen on Survivor, and I hope her falling on her sword somehow brought them both closure. 

[LadyChatts]

Three episodes in and no, this season isn't any better on re-watch so far (if there was any doubt).  Though I preferred the pre-merge half to the merge half, when usually it's the exact opposite.  This season is a great idea why you don't do a hugely popular theme again, especially with a much more inferior set of favorites.  Even the fans weren't as happy dysfunctional of a bunch as the first group.  I'm glad that Cochran is likely never to play this game again, and hopefully if they want a Survivor showing up on some EI paradise in future seasons to talk to a castaway, they pick someone else.    

I felt for Franchesca being the first boot again.  Hey, she'll be remembered, but I hated Phillip getting his own way.  Couldn't stand Laura and the know-it-all tone in her voice and attitude.  She doesn't seem to think she would eventually be seen a strategic threat, for observing the idol in Reynold's pocket, then outing him?  And she seemed to be in the thick of making decisions.  She would have been smarter to keep that tidbit about the idol to herself.  Shamar-was he really worth keeping around just to try and pick off the foursome?  Or was it strategy to keep someone unlikable around as a shield once the foursome got voted off?  Well, I know what's coming for them next.  Poor Hope, barely any screen time even in her boot episode.  Totally forgot there was a Julia on this season.  Showmances were stupid to get involved in day 1, but that group of Reynold/Eddie/Hope/Allie were going to be an alliance regardless.

All the signs of a Brandon melt down were there.  TPTB really dropped the ball on that one.

Edited August 9, 2017 by LadyChatts

[LadyChatts]

For some reason I thought Brandon's meltdown was later in the season, but maybe because it happened out of nowhere, and so quick, that I forgot it was this early. 

First, to touch on the boring Sherma medevac/Laura boot episode-I realize Reynold and Eddie were on the way outs with the 5 alliance, but on what planet do you keep Laura?  I mean, Jeff was Jeff when he said that Reynold and Eddie were the driving forces in that IC, and Reynold nearly made a huge comeback.  But for once I agree.  If you get rid of one, then the other, then what?  A tribe swap where you could be outnumbered, or someone in your 5 decides to flip anyways?  Anyway, I was not sorry to see Laura go.  They may not have been winning with Reynold and Eddie, but it wasn't like Laura was going to help them get a win, either.  And while I always feel sorry for anyone medevaced off the show, I was not sorry to see Shemar go.  Again, was he worth the aggravation of being kept around?  I don't blame Reynold and Eddie for not believing him about his eye injury at first (which did look very nasty).  But Shemar doesn't want to get out of the shelter, then demands people bring rice to him?  Anyway, that was that episode.  I loved that Reynold re-found the idol after playing it.

Onto the Brandon meltdown-yikes.  I again blame TPTB for dropping the ball.  There was no need to take it to the challenge.  Jeff should have shown up on the beach and talked to Brandon then and there, after he went crazy dumping food and threatening to burn the shelter down.  He had to know what was going on, but I guess for the sake of TV, they wanted to see just how far Brandon could be pushed.  I think if he could have, or got pushed a little too far, Brandon might have very well gotten physical.  I can see where Phillip is the type of person that can provoke others, and he likely knew how to push Brandon's buttons.  Brandon really seems like a nice young man, and it pains me that they seemed to take advantage of him just because his last name was Hantz.  I remember watching this episode when it first aired, and seeing how close it was getting to the end with no IC played yet.  I thought Brandon was just going to quit at camp, and the fans would get a notice at their camp.  Brandon thought he was selfish for leaving his kids, but I say TPTB were selfish for bringing him back in the first place.

Oh, and it also wouldn't be an episode without Jeff saying to the oldest woman left in the game "Sherri is worthless in this challenge."  I thought it was cute for the fans to ask Probst to do the "fans win immunity", but probably not the right time, since he was trying to contain Brandon.   

[simplyme]

I just shook my head at Corinne being peeved that no one defended her or Phillip when Brandon said mean things about them at the impromptu tribal. OMG, Corinne. Brandon was not stable. Everyone else was being intelligent and just keeping their mouths shut to get through it and try to keep Brandon as calm as possible. Phillip should have been punched in the nads for having the stupidity to keep poking the wasp's nest with a very short stick, and Corinne wasn't a whole lot better.

[ljenkins782]

On 8/11/2017 at 2:12 AM, simplyme said:

I just shook my head at Corinne being peeved that no one defended her or Phillip when Brandon said mean things about them at the impromptu tribal. OMG, Corinne. Brandon was not stable. Everyone else was being intelligent and just keeping their mouths shut to get through it and try to keep Brandon as calm as possible. Phillip should have been punched in the nads for having the stupidity to keep poking the wasp's nest with a very short stick, and Corinne wasn't a whole lot better.

I only watched this season once, remember little about it and am not inclined to revisit it, but this is rich. CORINNE was upset about someone saying mean things? The same woman who is gleefully awful and rakes other people across the coals at every opportunity? 

[LadyChatts]

Corinne seemed way more mellow this season than her first.  But since I'm re-watching both at the same time, it brings me back to why I couldn't stand her the first time.  And I haven't really even gotten to the ugliness of Gabon yet.  But I did already get through the gem of "I like making people cry."  So I can't look at Corinne any differently than her mean, ugly self in Gabon.  The rest of the tribe had the right idea.  Just stand there silently and let Brandon rant.  Letting Corinne and especially Phillip talk and ask them what they thought about Brandon's points was the worst thing they could have done.  But hey, they gotta make TV, and it's not like Brandon was going to be any real threat to Phillip at that point. 

I do remember Corinne saying at point that she thought her and Brandon were close, so maybe that's where he defensiveness came in.

The fans reaction still cracks me up.  It's not like it did them any good in the long run, but at least they had something to smile about.

Edited August 18, 2017 by LadyChatts

[LadyChatts]

Watched a few more episodes.  Was this one of the seasons Probst really hyped up and liked?

Ep 6: The aftermath of Brandon's boot.  Corinne was more upset at Dawn for not standing up for her and Phillip, but I again stand by that saying nothing was the right strategy.  We get a quote from Reynold about something needing to shake the game up, so of course, tribe swap!  And like pretty much every tribe swap, one tribe greatly benefits (new Gota, which had Reynold, Eddie, Sherri, Malcolm, Andrea, and Brenda), and one tribe that was screwed (new Bikal-Corinne, Dawn, Phillip, Cochran, Matt, Michael, and Julia).  Foreshadowing to Corinne's upcoming blindside.  It's why I enjoy re-watching these episodes, because you pick up on events that are going to end up defining the season.  Where'd Julia come from?  Apparently she was so forgettable to Phillip that he kept calling her "the girl".  I'm questioning if she was really a fan, because she apparently didn't know not to take charge in a challenge when you're already losing (IC was moving the crates that eventually piled up would spell Fans vs Favorites).  Probst provided the "Bikal is moving so slowly they are on medication", and "that was pathetic" when they finally lost.  It's hard to say whether Corinne could have roped Julia into a Phillip blindside this vote, since Phillip already brought her into his fold (yet he was annoyed at how close Corinne got to Michael).  But this might have been the chance for Corinne to take Phillip out.  She had Michael, and Matt was desperate to stick around he would have done anything.  One of my favorite Corinne quotes  from this ep: "how did Phillip crack cases?  Is he why there's such a mess in this country?"  Wasn't too sorry to see Matt go.  He kind of was a let down of a Survivor player.  

Ep 7: Jeff opens the ep by saying "The new Gota tribe had all the muscle.  And the new Bikal tribe" (pause) "didn't."  When they get the clue for the RC, Phillip tries to flex his challenge muscle by saying he can beat anyone in an arm wrestling challenge.  Unfortunately for him and New Bikal, arm wrestling challenges hadn't made their way to Survivor yet.  Of course he challenges Cochran to prove his point as to why he was an arm wrestling champ.  He then decides to dictate during the RC how his tribe should do it, despite giving terrible advice (no surprise they lost).  This was the sandbag challenge where they had to run with backpacks around a course until the other tribe caught them.  Then Julia did some terrible betrayal by repeating something Phillip told her to Dawn (not realizing he was testing her loyalty).  So she was in and out of Stealths R Us in a matter of days.  Cochran compared her to vanilla, then said that's an insult to vanilla.  New Bikal lost the IC (they had to retrieve pieces of a statue by boat, then use a grappling hook to retrieve 5 keys, which would then be used to unlock the statue at the base of a tower to get immunity).  New Bikal lost, again, but Phillip claims he threw it.  He told Cochran, who didn't believe it.  A split vote at TC was between Michael (who Corinne wanted to keep), and Julia, who went home on a re-vote.  Had she stuck around she would have been one of those players at the reunion show that I thought got lost and wound up on the stage.  And since this reunion show had their pre-mergers sitting in the audience, I wouldn't be able to pick her out against the other regular attendees.   

Ep 8: Merge time!  Or the point when Caramoan went on a downward spiral and didn't recover.  After the last TC Phillip pulls Corinne and Dawn aside (purposely leaving Michael out), and gives them the song and dance about how he threw the previous IC.  They didn't buy it, either.  I had kind of high hopes for Sherri at the start of this season, as she seemed somewhat smart, strategically.  Once Gota started their losing streak, and she had to baby sit Shemar until his medevac, then lost Laura, it seemed like she got resentful and faded into a non entity of a player.  I knew it was a bad group of favorites when I found Corrine the most likable of the group (behind Erik).  Forget what I said above about her.  How I wish her plan to blindside Sherri had happened.  I don't know why Reynold thought he'd suddenly be in charge of things if their blindside worked, but I don't think Reynold didn't know how to be running things.  Dawn is approached by Corinne about joining her and the fans and voting off Sherri, then Phillip next.  Dawn says her downfall last time was not sharing info, so of course she decides to learn from her mistake and tattle to Cochran, and it makes its way back to Phillip, who decides to blindside Corinne.  Parvati and Cirie never would have put up with Phillip's crap, but the other favorites followed him like gospel.  I was really disappointed with Andrea and Brenda this season.  Of course, if their strategy was to take him to the end because no one would vote for him, then kudos to them I guess, even when I hate that strategy.  But this season had such an unlikable group all around, it was hard to root for anyone.  And Phillip might have actually won out of spite.  We got the gross food IC, which I wish we got more of if they want to repeat challenges.  Also, why can they never make them merge into the crap camp?  Either they go to the camp of luxury, or start over.  My favorite part of this ep?  Malcolm getting the tribe to re-name their new camp after his mom without them knowing Enil Edam.   It had one thing I've grown to hate, which was so much time for strategizing in the episode.  Since I hate this group so much I guess less time seeing them around camp was fine, but I really hated Phillip's side, and was not looking forward to see them succeed in blindsiding Corinne.  Oh well, at least Malcolm's idol play is coming :) 

Ep 9: Sherri said Phillip was her new Shemar, and actually believed that within a couple of votes she'd be running the show and he'd be coming to her about things.  She didn't know Phillip very well.  No doubt had Stealth's R Us stuck together she would have been the first to go once Malcolm/Eddie/Reynold were gone.  Dawn really was not cut out to play this game again, and I haven't even gotten to her lost teeth episode yet.  Malcolm wanted to get Andrea out, but she had formed a faux showmance with Eddie, who informed her of his group's plan to target her.  Rightfully afraid Malcolm (who was the Stealth's alliance target) had an idol, she was concerned about a vote split between the men and wanted to vote out safe choice Michael.  I guess Eddie was too enchanted to realize all those flirtaous grins Andrea was giving him were fake.  At least, they looked fake.  And she promised to share info with him, but couldn't even tell him who her alliance was targeting that night.  Not a terribly exciting episode, aside from the arrogant smirks at TC of Stealth's and Sherri's "paybacks a bitch" to M/E/R when Phillip announced her as the newest member of his alliance.  I mean, how dare they vote for her at the previous TC!  Which is why I can't wait until the next episode and the epic idol play.  Though a part of me would have loved to have seen Stealth's turn on themselves with Phillip still in the game.   

Edited August 30, 2017 by LadyChatts

[SVNBob]

4 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

I was really disappointed with Andrea and Brenda this season.  Of course, if their strategy was to take him to the end because no one would vote for him, then kudos to them I guess, even when I hate that strategy.

It was.  After all, as Andrea herself could attest, it worked for Boston Rob.

[LadyChatts]

I'm curious if Phillip could have won.  In a final 3 of Dawn and Sherri, absolutely.  But Phillip was calling the shots, and unless some others picked up the slack (which I'm guessing Andrea and Brenda would have had Stealth's made it to the end), I don't know if they would have been successful in beating him.  Everyone seemed to hate him, but Eddie said he'd rather be on the bottom than Phillip's puppet.  I guess it would depend who he wound up in the final 3 with.  Andrea probably could have beat him, but I don't know about the rest.  Even Cochran. 

[simplyme]

I think Cochran, Andrea, and Brenda could all have beaten Phillip at the end IF they let him get there. That's a big if. They may have decided to take him out after the Three Amigos.

[SVNBob]

On 8/30/2017 at 1:07 AM, LadyChatts said:

Where'd Julia come from?

 

On 8/30/2017 at 1:07 AM, LadyChatts said:

Julia, who went home on a re-vote.  Had she stuck around she would have been one of those players at the reunion show that I thought got lost and wound up on the stage.

That's almost as succinct as this recent article about her racing career puts her Survivor experience.  The entire relevant passage:

Quote

despite missing half a semester to compete on the reality TV show Survivor in an effort to win $1 million to fund future racing and extend the reach of her personal brand. She didn’t win. She got nine minutes of screen time and a second-degree sunburn.

The article is a good read, and paints a much better picture about her than her Survivor experience.  In an all-newbie season, she might have been able to stand out in some fashion.  But because this was a split-cast season with several large personalities (the kindest phrasing possible), and she didn't do too well, she got lost in the shuffle.

[LadyChatts]

Thanks for sharing!  That was an interesting read.  While I couldn't really get into the group of fans, I do think they might have been better in a newbie season.  The first FvsF was so much better on many levels, but the fans were a better group, and the favorites didn't have the drama and personalities (or Stealth's) taking center stage.

[LadyChatts]

After work, fall TV, and life getting in the way, I went back to my Survivor re-watches.  Usually I wait until the current season of Survivor is over, but this current season really has me down to the point where Caramoan is looking good.

Ep 10: one of the best Survivor episodes ever!  Even for one episode, it was great to see the mighty fall.  And it was perfect leading up to it.  Andrea: "nothing can go wrong tonight", and Cochran "the alliance has the numbers."  Not to mention Phillip sitting out the IC because he said he had a traumatic event with water as a child, yet had participated in harder water challenges earlier.  Guess he picked the wrong one to sit out.  And I'm not saying he's lying, just interesting that the water challenges didn't bother him before.  Part of me would have loved for this to have been a Parvati Saves the Villains 2.0 and Malcolm spring the idols after the vote.  Maybe have split the vote 3 ways so Stealths would have had to really turn on each other, but Phillip may not have gotten voted out otherwise, so I guess I'm glad they revealed that's who they were voting for.  This is also the episode known as Teethgate.  If Dawn lost her teeth, couldn't production have just gone in and found them for her?  We wouldn't have had the drama that came later so they are probably glad they didn't intervene, but what if Brenda couldn't find them?  

Ep 11, Malcolm boot episode: Reynold, if you want to get people on your side, don't say "worst you can do is fifth".  Especially when your core alliance is Eddie/Malcolm, and the other person you're trying to rope in is Erik.  And especially if that fifth person is Sherri.  At least he didn't say "best you can do with us is fifth", but still would be enough to give me pause.  Eddie, Cochran already won an IC before this one, so clearly he can be a physical threat.  Finally, Sherri, you weren't calling the shots at this point, and hadn't been for a long time.  So Malcolm got a peek at a clue for the HII during the Survivor Auction, and then got busted by Andrea and Cochran back at camp looking for it.  Cochran didn't stick around, but I did love the scene of Andrea and Malcolm standing their ground in the dark where the clue told him to dig-then we switch to them in the same spot when it's daylight.  Had I been Malcolm, I would have kept looking.  Who cares if Andrea's there.  If it were me, I would purposely just look somewhere completely opposite of where the clue said.  I wouldn't find the idol if it were in plain sight in a tree anyway, so might as well lead everyone on a wild goose chase.  In all, not a very exciting episode.  I can't get over the difference in Brenda betwen Nicaragua and this season.  And poor girl got pig brain at the auction after passing over better items.  I wish they could do something to stop a split vote over idol fears at TC (but not tell them ahead of time, like they did for S34).  Seeing Malcolm makes me wish he'd return for a 4th chance (one of the few contestants I'd want to see a 4th time), but after Game Changers I'd be surprised if he'd want to come back.

Ep 12: Double boot episode in a single boot episode length of time.  I love how every episode post merge has been "maybe it's time to shake things up", and nothing gets shaken up.  I don't count Phillip's boot ep, because that was a fluke.  We jump right to the first IC.  Why doesn't Probst ever tempt the contestants during challenges anymore?  I miss that.  Eddie was an idiot to jump off for donuts.  It didn't matter as he didn't get voted off, but there was a 50/50 chance he would have.  I love how Cochran wins two IIC and transforms so much he took his shirt off before the IC, and suddenly he's the second coming of Ozzy in Probst's eyes.  That second IIC he won he had an advantage with.  Without it he probably wouldn't have.  That alliance was so freaking arrogant.  I enjoyed the blindsides and tongue lashings at the FTC that came.  Cochran couldn't have wound up in a better season.  He would have gotten creamed in a different returning player season.  First part of the episode was boring and predictable: misdirection that someone other than Reynold/Eddie are leaving, but Reynold gets the boot.  Oh, and something finally did get shaken up in part 2.  Andrea foreshadowed her own blindside when she said blindsides needed to start happening before it happened to her.  For winning the first IC she got a clue to the idol, so she shared it with her alliance and they all looked together.  Erik found it, and to Cochran's dismay, he gave it to Andrea.  I don't know why Cochran was surprised.  And it looked like Andrea kind of grabbed it out of his hands anyway.  But Cochran was briefly excited he would be able to tell Erik what to do with it.  Andrea and Eddie had been close for awhile, so I don't know why Cochran suddenly had this light bulb moment that she might want to take him to the final 3.  And I don't know if that was really her plan.  

Andrea's blindside was good, but the best one is coming up next episode!

Edited November 3, 2017 by LadyChatts

[LadyChatts]

Finally finished my re-watch.  I don't usually say I'm embarrassed for Probst and mean it sympathetically, but that reunion show was so hard to watch that I almost felt sorry for him.  That was a painful 42 minutes.  Of course my sympathy went away when he went on and on about what a rock star Cochran was, then all he could to think to ask Andrea was whether teaming up with the boys and flirting was bad for her game.  But he might as well been caring a sign in the shape of an elephant saying "we aren't talking about that incident."  It would have just been easier to address the situation for two seconds and move on.  The fact that they were so desperate to avoid the Brandon incident they got Richard Hatch via satellite just to say hi to Rudy in the audience was pathetic that it was almost funny.  I felt sorry for the pre-jurors having to sit in the audience.  What was the excuse they used, that the were experimenting with a new stage set up?  There aren't many Survivors I care to see over and over again, but I'd kill to see Malcolm back one last time.  Not sure he will after S34, but hopefully over time he will decide to give it another shot.  I had forgotten that Brenda/Dawn hadn't talked since the show ended (she showed up via satellite because she was expecting).  Whatever sympathy I had left for Probst disappeared when he kept hammering Dawn to apologize to Brenda and whether she was sorry for betraying her in the game.  It's what she was trying to do, Probst, and maybe he should have asked Brenda whether she was a tad childish over a game that requires people to vote other people off.

As for the finale itself-probably one of the most anti climactic ever.  Even though I knew the outcome, I still found myself rooting against Cochran and hoping he wouldn't take it.  But what were the alternatives?  Sherri, who quickly realized once she made the final 3 that she wasn't as good or respected in this game as she thought.  Or Dawn, who knew she was an emotional wreck, but apparently didn't expect the jury to continually bring it up.  As far as I'm concerned, Cochran is a legend in his own (and Probst's) mind.  He was in the majority from the beginning and did whatever Phillip wanted.  Once Phillip was gone, he still had a majority, and Brenda/Andrea who were targeting each other.  It was more comical when Dawn tried to make herself out to be some sort of strategic player, but Cochran got lucky.  They couldn't have set this up better for him.  If this had been a cast like the first FvsF, he would have been lucky to make the merge.  I've seen rumors and theories that the reason Corinne didn't make the jury is because she was so anti-Cochran, and if she had been the first juror, she might have rallied everyone against Cochran in the end.  However, I don't think she could have made a convincing case for Dawn or Sherri.  I can see why this season will probably forever hang in that cold, dark corner of the Survivor cellar with the likes of Thailand and Worlds Apart.  I can also see why Probst loved it so much, and why whatever he says the opposite usually happens.  Back to the FTC and teethgate with Brenda/Dawn-I get where Brenda was coming from.  It was completely childish and petty, but I'll pass it off as her having just been voted off and the sting of being betrayed still being felt (even if she no doubt would have done the same thing had she been voted off earlier).  Brenda is an example of why I sometimes hate having players I liked return again.  I'd almost rather get a season of players I hate, because the worst that can happen is I hate them more.  Lastly, it's an unpopular opinion, but I miss them doing Fallen Comrades.  I get why people didn't like it, but it was such a Survivor tradition for so long, and I'd get a little sentimental seeing all the Survivors that were voted off, and knowing the season was about to end.  I did get a laugh when Cochran had to ask which blonde Allie was, and I totally forgot there was a Hope or Julia on this season.  I've seen the idea floated before, but it'd be cool for them to do a season of the fans from Micronesia vs the fans from Caramoan.  I don't know that all the fans would be on board to come back, but they could probably make it work somehow.  I do hope they don't do another FvsF again.  The fans really don't have a chance, and some get too star struck to play their own game.

Edited December 11, 2017 by LadyChatts

[SVNBob]

8 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

I miss them doing Fallen Comrades.

You mean Rites of Passage.  Fallen Comrades is the trivia challenge about the other contestants.

[LadyChatts]

19 hours ago, SVNBob said:

You mean Rites of Passage.  Fallen Comrades is the trivia challenge about the other contestants.

Yes, that's what I meant.  But on the subject of the FC challenge, I liked that as well.  Not for every season, but it'd be nice to bring back once in awhile.  I loved Rudy in season 1 saying "I don't know anything about these people, and I don't care." 

Nowadays they'd have to space it out what seasons they did it on, because people would catch on too quick that that challenge was a definite.  Especially the super fans, and I can already hear the obnoxious comments from them about studying for it.  I also miss the challenges where they went off separately and had to answer a questionnaire about who was the laziest, craziest, cutest, etc, and then answer how they thought the group answered.

Edited December 12, 2017 by LadyChatts

[Lamb18]

Watching Dawn on Caramoan made me appreciate Chrissy more.

[healthnut]

Just finished this season for the first time, very mediocre season for me. Bottom five (Granted I haven't seen Nicaragua, Redemption Island, Gabon, or Fiji, which are considered some of the worst). At least in Micronesia, you could make an argument that the returnees were actually faves and the fans were super weak. Brandon and Malcolm really drug down the first half and I didn't find the second half nearly as exciting as others have. Cochran was ok, and definitely more deserving than Dawn or Sherry but I wouldn't put him as one of the great minds of Survivor.

[cherrypj]

It's clear that "Favorites" doesn't mean fan favorite. It means producer favorite. 

Unfortunately. 

[NutMeg]

On 4/28/2018 at 1:07 PM, cherrypj said:

It's clear that "Favorites" doesn't mean fan favorite. It means producer favorite. 

Unfortunately. 

He, not always 'unfortunately' :) First time Parvati came back, the forum (well, TWOP back then) exploded with rants that she was no favorite, blabli, blabla. And then she made history. Twice, I'd say.

[KimberStormer]

I went back and read the Parvati thread on TWOP once upon a time.  They had one big thread for all three of her appearances.  It was a fascinating read.  First it was like, "She's the one on the white tribe that I like.  Her and Penner."  Then shaded into "This is the worst human that has ever been, the sluttiest bitch ever [people were less woke back then] who dared to not be on a tribe with my precious cinnamon roll Aitus, and who furthermore said something mean about my darling Jonathan" with some "I hope her thumb gets infected" and the standard "ding dong the witch is dead" comments when she was voted out.  Then Micronesia starts and it's "Who wanted her back?  I'm only watching this stupid season to see her lose" and "WHYYY GODDD DID JONNY FAIRPLAY GIVE UP WHY COULDN'T IT BE HER" etc.  With the Ozzy blindside it was like "well...good, but I still hate her" and assorted grumbling until the end.  I remember very clealry one post which was simply: "......Winner's........edit?????" around the early merge.  There were definitely people saying she was playing a great game.  But for the most part people were just sort of keeping their smoldering ashes of hate in little jars, aided and abetted by Miss Alli who never gave Parvati one minute of respect the entire season long, basically because she didn't do the Obviously Correct thing and immediately forfeit Cook Islands to the Aitu 4 out of respect for their obvious superiority as human beings.

More grumbling, more wailing when she didn't get voted out early in HvV, a lot of dark muttering about how she blew a cameraman or something to "tell her about Russell" because obviously Russell had magic powers or whatever this top secret information was supposed to mean.  But finally when she pulled off the double idol play, at last the worm turned.  Even Miss Alli had to admit that was something, albeit very begrudgingly.  Some "you know, I always actually liked Parvati and I never understood why she got so much hate," and finally by the end several people saying she was robbed.

It can take a lot to overcome a bad impression, especially going up against the most beloved groups ever on the show...even though it took far less time for people to fall out of love with a member of that very group.  She needed two near-perfect games to change the majority's minds.  Even though to me she never did anything wrong in the first place.

Edited May 23, 2018 by KimberStormer
i before e steered me wrong, twice!

[SVNBob]

When I did my recent rewatch of Cook Islands, I was deliberately trying to view Parvati through the lens of hindsight.  I may not have thought much of her game on the original airing, but I didn't have any hatred for her.  (I don't really have hatred for any Survivors.  I may not like a handful and never want to see them ever again (and one of them is on this season), but I don't hate them.)  But the rewatch came with the knowledge of the Black Widows and her attempt to tame the dragon.  So I was able to see the evolution of her game and the seeds of what would eventually be back in her first appearance.

And that's a good thing about having some of the "also-rans" on these seasons with returning players.  It's possible to get a better picture of those players.  Then going back to watch their prior attempts comes with that new insight, and you can see how their game could have been different then.

[NutMeg]

22 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

I went back and read the Parvati thread on TWOP once upon a time.  They had one big thread for all three of her appearances.  It was a fascinating read.  First it was like, "She's the one on the white tribe that I like.  Her and Penner."  Then shaded into "This is the worst human that has ever been, the sluttiest bitch ever [people were less woke back then] who dared to not be on a tribe with my precious cinnamon roll Aitus, and who furthermore said something mean about my darling Jonathan" with some "I hope her thumb gets infected" and the standard "ding dong the witch is dead" comments when she was voted out.  Then Micronesia starts and it's "Who wanted her back?  I'm only watching this stupid season to see her lose" and "WHYYY GODDD DID JONNY FAIRPLAY GIVE UP WHY COULDN'T IT BE HER" etc.  With the Ozzy blindside it was like "well...good, but I still hate her" and assorted grumbling until the end.  I remember very clealry one post which was simply: "......Winner's........edit?????" around the early merge.  There were definitely people saying she was playing a great game.  But for the most part people were just sort of keeping their smoldering ashes of hate in little jars, aided and abetted by Miss Alli who never gave Parvati one minute of respect the entire season long, basically because she didn't do the Obviously Correct thing and immediately forfiet Cook Islands to the Aitu 4 out of respect for their obvious superiority as human beings.

More grumbling, more wailing when she didn't get voted out early in HvV, a lot of dark muttering about how she blew a cameraman or something to "tell her about Russell" because obviously Russell had magic powers or whatever this top secret information was supposed to mean.  But finally when she pulled off the double idol play, at last the worm turned.  Even Miss Alli had to admit that was something, albiet very begrudgingly.  Some "you know, I always actually liked Parvati and I never understood why she got so much hate," and finally by the end several people saying she was robbed.

It can take a lot to overcome a bad impression, especially going up against the most beloved groups ever on the show...even though it took far less time for people to fall out of love with a member of that very group.  She needed two near-perfect games to change the majority's minds.  Even though to me she never did anything wrong in the first place.

That's fascinating. What I remember from her first season is that she seemed to be quite powerful, the edit didn't show it much, but when there was talk of eliminating The then Man in the game (can'y remember his name), it was made clear that to make that happen, you needed Parvati. Also, Yul feared her the most, and I know TBTP framed her as hte flirty person they had decided was her shtick, but even back then her editing was bursting from the "flirty" constraints, we (well, I) could see that she had a strong social game, even gaining too much sympathy from Becky and Sundra for Yul's sake. And from Ozzy, as editing wanted us to thing, although it was less meaningful, but at least there was a possibility to label that connection as "flirty".   

And again, Parvati 2.0 and 3.0 was initially edited as a flirt and not much else, even though that's maybe a tiny part of what made her lethal as a contestant. If she had been a man, she'd have been edited very differently. Parvati 2.0 is sooo interesting that it would require a lengthy analysis, But in short, 3.0, we coud have seen her building an alliance with someone who also felt at the bottom from the start (instead of being "saved" by the famewhore du jour; making her way through playing along when needed, and winning immunities in the most amazing ways* ; and mastering immunity idol play, as none had before or since (no, TPPB and JT, it was all her, Russell gave her info and idols, but how she used them was all her.)      

*that hanging to the pole challenge? when she looked lie se was just standing there for fun? was a thing of beauty, beating even Ozzy, who is still my benchmark for most challenges, because wins are one thing, but sometimes they are graceless,whereas any way Ozzy ever moved in any challenge was a joy to the eyes. My Pantheon of graceful challenge performers also includes  Parvati; Aras; Danielle and Courtney in their first (or only) season; it's this sweat spot of challenge and performer perfectly suited to it. There have been challenge beasts that had no grace or charm Terry really made an impression on me in that regard, he sure was efficient but his way of moving was clearly nor aesthetic. With the Ozzys of this world, what amazes me is that mix of mastery,  ease and grace, which makes the way they can move so elegant and such a pleasure to watch. 

I can't believe I forgot Miss Alli's dislike of Parvati. I used to look forward to her recaps, but I realize now how powerful a force she was (she created the narrative and policed the forums, after all). Her love for Jonathan Penner might have instructed that dislike and blinded her to the fact that Jonathan, while probably great in real life, is really a bad Survivor player.  But really, not much has changed, there might not be a Miss Alli, but there stil is a similar force, look at the first page of any episode and you'll see dozens of people agreeing to very superficial, immediate reactions to the episode, and most of them won't maybe second guess that first reaction.

[KimberStormer]

Yeah, it was especially strong on TWOP because boards-on-boards, while a marvelous tool for keeping flame wars from getting out of hand, had a way of stifling disagreement.  I mean you could say "I disagree."  But if you said "You're thinking that because Miss Alli said it in her recap" would be pretty much an instant ban.  Recapper-as-driver-of-the-narrative was very pronounced but also impossible to discuss. 

I always doubt my memory so I searched for "Miss Alli Parvati" and the first result was Parv's Cook Islands vote-out episode:

Quote

Naturally, Parvati gravitates toward using her chest, and it's really interesting to see her trying to carry mud back with her little boobs -- which are really not up to the task -- while grinning like a buffoon. It's like, in her mind, she has huge boobs. She has huge mental boobs, like one of those people who loses a limb and can still feel it.

Also contains some drooling over Yul's abs and cleaned-up jury Penner and Wing Chung naming "Adam and Parvati the fucking useless losers" because, get this, they didn't have the Tyler Perry idol, which apparently means Yul is a superior Survivor player???  So I'm not making it up, except the part where Miss Alli finally gives Parv some respect, because actually she quit to somehow go be a respected pop culture critic halfway through Micronesia.  In her last recap she jokes that Parvati is 'crab bait'.  Intersectional!

Ummmmm on topic, I wish Malcolm hadn't played this season.  It wasn't any good for him.  I bet he could have come back and Boston Robbed it if he'd had a couple years to rest and think.

Edited May 23, 2018 by KimberStormer

[cherrypj]

Love the Parvati discussion, and it's a shame there's no Parvati equivalent in Caramoan. Andrea maybe came close. Is there a male Parv? I guess Malcolm, and he didn't do so hot in either of his return attempts. Plus, he was universally liked in his first attempt. (Unlike Parvati. "Funny" how that works. Guys definitely have it easier. Unless you're a secret fun sponge agent.)

I didn't like this season. Between Philip, Baby Hantz, and Teethgate, it wasn't enjoyable. I can't believe Dawn didn't just tell Brenda to go fuck herself. 

Oh well. BvW (S27) is the last season I've never before seen. Hope it's better than this one.

[LadyChatts]

5 hours ago, cherrypj said:

Love the Parvati discussion, and it's a shame there's no Parvati equivalent in Caramoan. Andrea maybe came close. Is there a male Parv? I guess Malcolm, and he didn't do so hot in either of his return attempts. Plus, he was universally liked in his first attempt. (Unlike Parvati. "Funny" how that works. Guys definitely have it easier. Unless you're a secret fun sponge agent.)

I didn't like this season. Between Philip, Baby Hantz, and Teethgate, it wasn't enjoyable. I can't believe Dawn didn't just tell Brenda to go fuck herself. 

Oh well. BvW (S27) is the last season I've never before seen. Hope it's better than this one.

I was no fan of Dawn but I would have done the same thing, and told Probst a thing or two at the reunion when he kept harping on it like it was all Dawn's fault for betraying poor Brenda.  Seriously, I get emotions run high in this game, especially given the elements and personal connections, but people can take themselves way too seriously.  Brenda's grandstanding at the FTC was one of the worst. 

[fishcakes]

Eh. Dawn didn't have to take her dentures out. I'm not going to feel sorry for her for quickly calculating that she could make herself look like the more injured party by doing so. According to pretty much everyone there, she played for their sympathy every single day in Caramoan; she would have done so in South Pacific and tried to on Day 2, but Ozzy shut that shit down right away; and she certainly did so with that dramatic BS, "I'M FORCED TO LEAVE SOCIAL MEDIA FOREVER TO PROTECT MY CHILDREN FROM DEATH THREATS," only to come back two weeks later. My guess is she was happy that Brenda challenged her to take out her teeth; it gave her another opportunity to vie for the pity vote.

[cherrypj]

7 hours ago, fishcakes said:

Eh. Dawn didn't have to take her dentures out. I'm not going to feel sorry for her for quickly calculating that she could make herself look like the more injured party by doing so.

Definitely don’t feel sorry for her, for sure. I wonder if she would have fared better had she totally flipped course at the FTC: “Yes, that’s how I played. It got me here. No I won’t take my teeth out. The tears? Fake!”

...

Nah.

I don’t remember anyone being successful with an opposite strategy in FTC. Amanda tried it (twice!) and failed because she went from competent to weak. The people who do well at FTC were already edited that way, so it was no surprise to us. 

[KimberStormer]

I was thinking about "good episodes from bad seasons" the other day (I rewatched MvGX episode two, which is sooooooo gooooooood although that season is garbage) and that made me remember this, which I'm not sure I ever shared with the class.  I don't know who made this, but it is amazing.