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Where No Guessing Has Gone Before!: Serious Speculation

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Hull NCC-1031 is a number that if they want allows this to be set before TOS, thus entirely dodging the entire "which universe is this" question.

I really can't see that number being accidental. I mean they could have picked anything (not even having to stick with the NCC prefix) and picked it. And it would just be unweildy and unnecessary for it to be a lower hull number but in a later setting.

Ergo, if someone is BSing they can answer that this is "the prime universe"... but frankly it's both. 

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1 hour ago, Kromm said:

Ergo, if someone is BSing they can answer that this is "the prime universe"... but frankly it's both. 

Until you open the box and collapse the wave function.

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I'm not thrilled about it being a prequel.  The last series tried that and wasn't terribly well received.  We've already covered meeting the Vulcans, Klingons, Romulans and Andorians and saw the Federation formed.  The relaunch novels had some ideas that would have made a good springboard for a new series.  Or I remember an idea floated years ago for a story set several decades after the TNG era that would have the Federation split in two by a massive Omega particle attack.  The series would have followed a ship patrolling the new frontier s the Federation tries to recover.  And although I'm not a fan of the new timeline, they could have used the destruction of Romulus in the prime universe as a starting point for the show.

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Since there's time travel, it doesn't necessarily matter when the ship is originally from, just where it ends up. But leaving aside the issue of the Kelvin Universe entirely, as the recent movies have also hinted, with all the messing about with the Space Time Continuum that we've seen in all the series, especially in Enterprise, what we saw happen in the original episodes of all the series pre-Enterprise is not necessarily what happened anymore.

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21 minutes ago, Maverick said:

The last series tried that and wasn't terribly well received.

I would argue that was due in larger part to how and by whom it was handled.

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What if instead of pre-TOS, Discovery is set concurrent to TOS.  Think less ENT and TOS, and more DS9 and Voyager. So, back in Kirk's time, but a totally different mission for a different kind of ship.  

The Enterprise was a ship of exploration (seeking out new worlds and new civilizations).  Perhaps the new ship is meant to be more of a battleship and will be patrolling close to the Klingon and/or Romulan borders.

Doing this isn't a prequel.  Its more sequel-ish, but not exactly.  Since it'd be simultaneously occuring with TOS, call it a simquel.

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11 hours ago, SVNBob said:

What if instead of pre-TOS, Discovery is set concurrent to TOS.  Think less ENT and TOS, and more DS9 and Voyager. So, back in Kirk's time, but a totally different mission for a different kind of ship.  

The Enterprise was a ship of exploration (seeking out new worlds and new civilizations).  Perhaps the new ship is meant to be more of a battleship and will be patrolling close to the Klingon and/or Romulan borders.

Doing this isn't a prequel.  Its more sequel-ish, but not exactly.  Since it'd be simultaneously occuring with TOS, call it a simquel.

 

Having a warship is a good idea but have we ever saw a Federation ship that was solely a warship and not use for science exploration?

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 When he Defiant was introduced on DS9, Kira states Starfleet doesn't believe in warships.  Sisko points out officially she's classified as an 'escort ship' but the implication is it's their first warship. 

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Oh damn I forgotten about the Defiant but wasn't that ship just a glorified shuttle (meaning that the ship was really small, comparied to the other Federation ships) with photon torpedoes?

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 The Defiant was small but it was still bigger than a shuttle (the runabouts were basically glorified shuttles).  It had not science labs, holodecks or other amenities but was armed to the teeth and was overpowered to the point of nearly shaking itself apart (but of course O'Brien was able to solve that problem even after Starfleet's ship designers couldn't).  

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5 hours ago, TVSpectator said:

Having a warship is a good idea but have we ever saw a Federation ship that was solely a warship and not use for science exploration?

Point.  So revise a little.  Instead of the typical Starfleet ship designed for science but still able to defend itself, this one is designed more for combat, but still able to conduct some scientific surveys.  A slight reversal of the Federation principles, but still in line with them.

3 hours ago, Maverick said:

 When he Defiant was introduced on DS9, Kira states Starfleet doesn't believe in warships.  Sisko points out officially she's classified as an 'escort ship' but the implication is it's their first warship. 

Then again, Kira is taking about the then-current era of Starfleet, the Picard era for want of a better indicator.  I'm talking about a ship in the Kirk era, before the Federation and Klingons ever became allies.  Starfleet might not want warships, but they know when they might need them.  So who said Sisko's Defiant was the first Starfleet warship?  She might have just been the first one in a long time.

And who's to say that the Discovery isn't classified as an "escort ship" too?

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So after seening Star Trek Beyond and the new trailer for this series I was thinking that this show might take place after ENT but before TOS, because the design of the ship in the trailer kind of looks like the USS Franklin from ST Beyond. 

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On 7/26/2016 at 10:15 AM, SVNBob said:

What if instead of pre-TOS, Discovery is set concurrent to TOS.  Think less ENT and TOS, and more DS9 and Voyager. So, back in Kirk's time, but a totally different mission for a different kind of ship.  

The Enterprise was a ship of exploration (seeking out new worlds and new civilizations).  Perhaps the new ship is meant to be more of a battleship and will be patrolling close to the Klingon and/or Romulan borders.

Doing this isn't a prequel.  Its more sequel-ish, but not exactly.  Since it'd be simultaneously occuring with TOS, call it a simquel.

The problem therein is that you still would have to acknowledge the (very unpopular with many) events of the movie.  I mean even if you can dodge the Dumbshittery of Kirk being promoted a zillion levels to Captain (because it wouldn't be relevant to another ship), you still have to go with the whole "Vulcan gone and got blowed up really bad" stuff.

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On 26/07/2016 at 10:15 AM, SVNBob said:

The Enterprise was a ship of exploration (seeking out new worlds and new civilizations).  Perhaps the new ship is meant to be more of a battleship and will be patrolling close to the Klingon and/or Romulan borders.

That would limit the story options...unless they try to make the season into a 24 "real time" framework.  

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11 hours ago, Kromm said:

The problem therein is that you still would have to acknowledge the (very unpopular with many) events of the movie.

No.  I'm saying concurrent with The Original Series. Occurring the same time as the events on the original Enterprise (no bloody -A, -B, -C, or -D) in the prime timeline, just in a different area of space.

 

2 hours ago, paigow said:

That would limit the story options...unless they try to make the season into a 24 "real time" framework.  

Well, we do know that the first season is going to be one serialized story.  But beyond that, I don't think the options would be too limited.

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19 minutes ago, SVNBob said:

No.  I'm saying concurrent with The Original Series. Occurring the same time as the events on the original Enterprise (no bloody -A, -B, -C, or -D) in the prime timeline, just in a different area of space.

But then they would still need to acknowledge its the original continuity. The very thing we were speculating they weren't as willing to do if the setting was after Kirk & the gang.  Being in the same time as Kirk is the same exact problem--you have to clearly disclose which version it is.

That's different from it being a prequel--where they don't.

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Is Archer part of this reality? Have his events been completed? Or is this pre TOS where Archer never existed?

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3 hours ago, paigow said:

Is Archer part of this reality? Have his events been completed? Or is this pre TOS where Archer never existed?

Well, in Star Trek 2009, Scotty made a reference to how he once took  Admiral Archer's prized beagle  and made it disappear in an experiment, using the transporter. So, yes, I guess he does exist in the JJ timeline. 

Edited by TVSpectator · Reason: To make the statment more accurate.

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3 hours ago, paigow said:

Is Archer part of this reality? Have his events been completed? Or is this pre TOS where Archer never existed?

Why wouldn't he exist?  The time travel which changed the universe was a few generations after Archer's time.

So yeah, he not only exists, but everything he did is the same in both versions.

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22 hours ago, paigow said:

Does this mean STD happens after Archer and before Kirk? With Archer as canon?  

It HAS to happen after Archer.  Archer and crew are literally shown as the first non-experimental warp ship from Earth, aren't they?  How could it be before and have any link to the Federation? 

Before Kirk is what we're only speculating on.  Anything before Kirk doesn't have to discount/diverge from the current theatrical movies. Anything concurrent with Kirk OR after either has to agree with the new movies or discount them. So the speculation is that it could be before Kirk because that avoids Fuller and Co. having to take a stand on that (because either way might piss off certain groups of fans). 

And there's no reason to think it would be a different alternate where Archer didn't exist, because the only universe-changing time event we know of is the one we saw in Star Trek (2009) and that specifically happened starting with the attack on the USS Kelvin (the ship that George Kirk was on which was attacked by time traveler Nero), and George Kirk lived decades after Archer did.  Short of some ludicrous decision to have a third timeline, its safe to say this has to be something where Archer did all that we saw.

Strictly speaking the "safest" period for this to be set would be after Archer but before George Kirk died. That said, even though George Kirk dying had an effect on the timeline, I doubt it was big enough that they'd have to definitely commit to which timeline STD is set in if it happens between when that event happened in the Alt-Continuity and when Kirk takes over Enterprise in either the TV show or movie.  But then Vulcan is destroyed. That's such a big event you can't not talk about it in a series, so that's why setting the show in Kirk's time OR after would require a choice of universes to be made clear.

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I once heard a rumor that this series is going to be more like American Horror Story-  that we get a different story for each season. Is that correct? Because if it is, then I think that would be a cool idea. Don't like what is happening on the show, guess what, you won't have to deal with it next season. 

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14 hours ago, TVSpectator said:

Dama, I was hoping that they would do an anthology show instead of a serialized show. 

Strictly speaking anthology shows still are serialized, they just only have 1 season in a specific setting. In fact, most of the current anthology shows have set the precedent that the continuity is the same even when the setting is changed.  They may play around with the same actors, but they're usually more fantastical shows and hand wave that easier. Trek wants to at least appear grounded, even if its the most speculative of all in the end.

I think the prospect of having to build new sets and cast new actors each year would be a bit more to deal with in a effects heavy show with big continuity burdens.  It never seemed realistic to me, so I never entirely believed that rumor anyway.

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5 minutes ago, Kromm said:

Strictly speaking anthology shows still are serialized, they just only have 1 season in a specific setting. In fact, most of the current anthology shows have set the precedent that the continuity is the same even when the setting is changed.  They may play around with the same actors, but they're usually more fantastical shows and hand wave that easier. Trek wants to at least appear grounded, even if its the most speculative of all in the end.

I think the prospect of having to build new sets and cast new actors each year would be a bit more to deal with in a effects heavy show with big continuity burdens.  It never seemed realistic to me, so I never entirely believed that rumor anyway.

 

Still, I do love anthology shows because there is potential to see different stories being told and also escape certain creative traps that the writers wrote in one season/story, etc... Yeah, I get that most try to keep some kind of continuity (or keep it in the same universe) and would reuse the same actors (they all do it, to an extent. And I am fine with that) - although, what I noticed was that the same actors would appear on the show but they would play different characters- sometimes. It's just some have speculated that there could be a Star Trek anthology show and now that a big name network is airing them, CBS, the rumors took off because there is money behind the series. 

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Considering they said that future seasons could lead to older characters appearing, I feel like it's most likely going to be set after Voyager. After Enterprise I can't seem them being too crazy about doing another prequel, plus without time travel that doesn't leave a real way for anybody to return. To truly do something fresh and new they'd have to simply do a sequel. However, based on the name and design of the ship, I'm sure all the rumors are true (despite their denials) and it'll be set between Enterprise and TOS. Perhaps the characters they said could appear are just Enterprise characters.

I wish we could get some good casting information though! And character descriptions.

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2 hours ago, KnotsLanding said:

I'm sure all the rumors are true (despite their denials) and it'll be set between Enterprise and TOS. Perhaps the characters they said could appear are just Enterprise characters.

Well Bakula already works for CBS, so...

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Why not set it in the mid-29th Century and have the Discovery be one of the first Federation timeships, with its first mission to be going back to the 23rd Century and undoing the trainwreck that the 2009 movie made of the timestream?  Problem solved.

Edited by legaleagle53
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 Another alternative is that the Discover is from the era between Enterprise and TOS, but it's actually thrown forward in time creating a third timeline.  If it's sent to the post-TNG/DS9/VOY era, then you have the opportunity to see alternate versions of any of those crew members and they can play around with revealing details of the alternate history.

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17 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

Why not set it in the mid-29th Century and have the Discovery be one of the first Federation timeships, with its first mission to be going back to the 23rd Century and undoing the trainwreck that the 2009 movie made of the timestream?  Problem solved.

Because they plan on making more Abramsverse movies?

11 hours ago, Maverick said:

 Another alternative is that the Discover is from the era between Enterprise and TOS, but it's actually thrown forward in time creating a third timeline.  If it's sent to the post-TNG/DS9/VOY era, then you have the opportunity to see alternate versions of any of those crew members and they can play around with revealing details of the alternate history.

Aren't the actors all too old?  Its going to be pretty weird if all of the "alternate versions" are conveniently much older than the ones we originally met.

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7 hours ago, Kromm said:

Because they plan on making more Abramsverse movies?

Aren't the actors all too old?  Its going to be pretty weird if all of the "alternate versions" are conveniently much older than the ones we originally met.

 That's why I said the post-TNG era., as in a period where their ages would make sense.

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To avoid the extra costs that come with an anthology series, they could switch out the character but leave the ship the same, with a new mission every season. This would avoid the cast continuity that results in so many inane story decisions (e.g. Riker turning down eleventy billion chances at command to continue playing second banana on the Enterprise). People could die, transfer on and off; people could be promoted from Ensign to Lieutenant to top positions; the captains can switch out and the 2ICs take over the position. But because the ship is the same, no extra money spent on sets...so it can all go towards budgeting for the latest holodeck craze. 

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I hope they don't do an anthology, that would be worse than this prequel idea that already annoys me. I would just like more boldness like you mentioned in terms of characters dying or getting promoted and leaving the series. That would be a good way to get major actors signed on for a season and then being able to write them off if necessary.

Considering the outlet, I wonder if there is a chance this show could be successful enough to spawn a movie at some point? Even if only a tv movie, that could be interesting.

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On 8/6/2016 at 3:05 AM, KnotsLanding said:

I hope they don't do an anthology, that would be worse than this prequel idea that already annoys me. I would just like more boldness like you mentioned in terms of characters dying or getting promoted and leaving the series. That would be a good way to get major actors signed on for a season and then being able to write them off if necessary.

Considering the outlet, I wonder if there is a chance this show could be successful enough to spawn a movie at some point? Even if only a tv movie, that could be interesting.

How do you even define the term "TV movie" any more in a streaming world?  It would seem to just be a 90 minute or 2 hour episode.

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On 05/08/2016 at 8:28 PM, Miss Dee said:

To avoid the extra costs that come with an anthology series, they could switch out the character but leave the ship the same, with a new mission every season. 

Instead of "Wagon Train To The Stars" "True Detective in Space". Season 1 is really good with Capt. Rust & XO Marty. Season 2 not so good.....

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By the way, since (to my shock) there wasn't an actual spoilers topic, I went ahead and made one.  It is worth noting that there ARE actual spoilers available now to disclose and discuss, because Fuller spilled a whole bunch the other day.

The way I labeled the new topic was "Spoilers and Spoilered Discussion".  If the mods instead want Spoilers themselves in their own topic and Spoilered Discussion in a second one, I suppose they will let us know.

Since this topic is clearly tagged "No Spoilers" I guess the division between this topic and the others is clear though.

Edited by Kromm

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You know, the other thing about filming in Canada is no location shoots at Vasquez Rocks.

That's like, tradition, man.

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As long as every episode's plot is not built around a mysterious "sub space anomaly" that is solved by the use of a "tachyon pulse" they should do just fine.

And I speculate that fat, angry, basement dwelling neckbeards will arrive to complain about something in 3....2.....1

Edited by CanadaPhil
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Is any one else getting a Section 31 feel to this series? My speculation is that S31 has or is messing with the timeline to create a future favourable to them. Instead of peace and science and exploration, we get war and expansion based on fear. Already we’ve seen augmented humans and aliens that were never featured or shown even in backgrounds on previous series.

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1 hour ago, rtms77 said:

Is any one else getting a Section 31 feel to this series? My speculation is that S31 has or is messing with the timeline to create a future favourable to them. Instead of peace and science and exploration, we get war and expansion based on fear. Already we’ve seen augmented humans and aliens that were never featured or shown even in backgrounds on previous series.

Unless the showrunners were lying, this is the original, unaltered timeline.

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3 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

Unless the showrunners were lying, this is the original, unaltered timeline.

I say they are at least trying to blur the lines, in hopes that if the series takes off they can retcon the timelines and change things without a backlash.

Edited by rtms77
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L'Relle endgame: She is an ancestor of Duras, willing to work with Romulans.... If Ash is a spy then he is an altered Romulan working her con to bring down Kol. Voq was sitting on his ship for 6 months after "Binary Stars"...Lorca was captured about a month later. No way Voq could have mastered human interaction skills in a month. Romulan!Ash FTW

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5 hours ago, paigow said:

L'Relle endgame: She is an ancestor of Duras

Only if she marries into it. We already know  her father was from the House of T’Kuvma and her mother was from the House of Mo’Kai. 

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