Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Morrigan2575]

Yeah

Yeah

[ComicFan777]

I kinda love that quote...so much spunk, I guess.

yeah, probably Thea to Brie.

[wonderwall]

So Flash is going on a hiatus apparently which means Arrow will too after episode 17... *sigh* STOP PUSSYFOOTING AROUND AND GIVE ME THE DEATH EPISODE NOW. :p

 

[This is the first time I've used the term pussyfoot in an actual sentence... I still don't know how I feel about the word]

[apinknightmare]

So Flash is going on a hiatus apparently which means Arrow will too after episode 17... *sigh* STOP PUSSYFOOTING AROUND AND GIVE ME THE DEATH EPISODE NOW. :p

 

[This is the first time I've used the term pussyfoot in an actual sentence... I still don't know how I feel about the word]

 

Didn't we get the summary for 18 already though? 

 

ETA: Yeah, we did. It's going on a break 1 week after Flash. 

 

ARROW

“Eleven-Fifty-Nine” — (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (Content Rating TBD) (HDTV)

MALCOLM MAKES HIS MOVE – Oliver (Stephen Amell) and Diggle (David Ramsey) learn that Merlyn (John Barrowman) is going to try to break Darhk (guest star Neal McDonough) out of prison. Meanwhile, Laurel (Katie Cassidy) gets a surprising offer and Felicity (Emily Bett Rickards) has a heart-to-heart talk with Curtis (guest star Echo Kellum). Rob Hardy directed the episode written by Marc Guggenheim & Keto Shimizu (#418). Original airdate 4/6/2016.

Edited March 30, 2016 by apinknightmare

[ComicFan777]

So Flash is going on a hiatus apparently which means Arrow will too after episode 17... *sigh* STOP PUSSYFOOTING AROUND AND GIVE ME THE DEATH EPISODE NOW. :p

 

Do you know if it is going to be 1 or 2 weeks? is there going to be another hiatus later? do we know when?

 

Edited March 30, 2016 by ComicFan777

[wonderwall]

Didn't we get the summary for 18 already though? 

 

ETA: Yeah, we did. It's going on a break 1 week after Flash. 

 

ARROW

“Eleven-Fifty-Nine” — (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (Content Rating TBD) (HDTV)

MALCOLM MAKES HIS MOVE – Oliver (Stephen Amell) and Diggle (David Ramsey) learn that Merlyn (John Barrowman) is going to try to break Darhk (guest star Neal McDonough) out of prison. Meanwhile, Laurel (Katie Cassidy) gets a surprising offer and Felicity (Emily Bett Rickards) has a heart-to-heart talk with Curtis (guest star Echo Kellum). Rob Hardy directed the episode written by Marc Guggenheim & Keto Shimizu (#418). Original airdate 4/6/2016.

 

Oh thank god

[apinknightmare]

I'm glad I looked that up, because I thought the heart-to-heart with Curtis was in tomorrow's ep.

[spartan]

So Flash is going on a hiatus apparently which means Arrow will too after episode 17... *sigh* STOP PUSSYFOOTING AROUND AND GIVE ME THE DEATH EPISODE NOW. :p

 

[This is the first time I've used the term pussyfoot in an actual sentence... I still don't know how I feel about the word]

LOL LOL LOL

[apinknightmare]

Do you know if it is going to be 1 or 2 weeks? is there going to be another hiatus later? do we know when?

 

 

We won't know if it's two weeks until later this week when they release the batch of summaries for the week of the 18th. 

[Guest]

Another hiatus? This is getting ridiculous.

[BkWurm1]

So Flash is going on a hiatus apparently which means Arrow will too after episode 17... *sigh* STOP PUSSYFOOTING AROUND AND GIVE ME THE DEATH EPISODE NOW. :p

 

[This is the first time I've used the term pussyfoot in an actual sentence... I still don't know how I feel about the word]

Personally I like the word, imagining my kitties trying to delicately pick their way across the top of my dresser without knocking anything over or sneaking up on one of the other cats for the sole purpose of one whack of the paw before tearing off like the Flash.  I also enjoy when their pussyfooting fails like it did not ten minutes ago and one fell into the bathtub, ha, ha, ha! 

 

As for Eleven Fifty-Nine, we so need to start the death clock countdown as soon as Beacon of Hope is over.   

So Flash is going on a hiatus apparently which means Arrow will too after episode 17... *sigh* STOP PUSSYFOOTING AROUND AND GIVE ME THE DEATH EPISODE NOW. :p

 

[This is the first time I've used the term pussyfoot in an actual sentence... I still don't know how I feel about the word]

Personally I like the word, imagining my kitties trying to delicately pick their way across the top of my dresser without knocking anything over or sneaking up on one of the other cats for the sole purpose and one whack of the paw before tearing off like the Flash.  I also enjoy when their pussyfooting fails like it did not ten minutes ago and one fell into the bathtub, ha, ha, ha! 

 

As for Eleven Fifty-Nine, we so need to start the death clock countdown as soon as Beacon of Hope is over.   

[nksarmi]

The hiatus doesn't bother me - the fact that we don't get the death and the funeral before it - does.  I don't want a break between those episodes - I want to wrap up this stupid death and move on with the HIVE plot.  I've almost forgotten all about that menacing threat this season.

[Starfish35]

We will get the death before it, but not the funeral. The death is in 418, then the break, then the funeral in 419.

[apinknightmare]

Given that MG wrote 4x18, I think the death actually will happen in that ep. At the very end. I'm not entirely sure we'll be left with a cliffhanger and the identity of the dead person unclear (for the unspoiled) like some people speculated.

Edited March 30, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Starfish35]

I don't think we'll get a cliffhanger. I don't have anything solid to base that hunch on, but I think they want to get the death out of the way, and then move on. I really don't think they'll leave people hanging for three weeks, not after dragging this out for six months. We'll get the death, and then the break, and then will come back to the funeral.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Starfish35

[dtissagirl]

I'm tempted to think there was a death cliffhanger planned, then the set pictures leaked, and KC had to go back to set to film pickup shots for 418 because there's no cliffhanger anymore.

Edited March 30, 2016 by dtissagirl

[kismet]

A few months ago I thought that they might end on a cliffhanger, I still think its a possibility. But now I believe that they will most likely do a definite reveal to add to the shock of it. A hero's death and a tragic few seconds to linger on her face before we fade to black. The shock of it will be what people talk about, if they do a cliffhanger they will lose all the momentum of why they did a big death in the first place.

[BkWurm1]

Crap, it's another two week hiatus, isn't it?  I hate when the number of episodes is barely more than the weeks the show is off the air. The ratings are going to plummet for 4-19 just because no one (apart from the internet dwellers) will know the show is back on.   That and SPRING!

[wonderwall]

Y'know... I just realized. I'm deathly afraid that the heart to heart between Curtis and Felicity is going to be written by Keto and not MG. Sorry, but I feel like Keto has a personal vendetta against Felicity and always, without fail, writes her extremely poorly

[Starfish35]

I don't know that we know for sure that it's a two week hiatus, but it seems the most likely scenario, seeing as they're going to be heading into sweeps at the end of April and they still need to fit in another week off somewhere.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Starfish35

[lemotomato]

Crap, it's another two week hiatus, isn't it?  I hate when the number of episodes is barely more than the weeks the show is off the air. The ratings are going to plummet for 4-19 just because no one (apart from the internet dwellers) will know the show is back on.   That and SPRING!

Not necessarily. There was a 1 week break between 318 and 319 last season, and the demo actually went up for 319 while the number of viewers was unchanged.  I think whether or not people remember the show is coming back on depends on if there's any promotion leading up to 19, not just a media dump the day before it airs. Hopefully a sizzle reel for episodes 19-21 will get released during the break just like last year.

[bijoux]

Is it confirmed that Brie is coming back to take Felicity's microchip to help someone she loves who's going through the same thing?

 

Because if it is confirmed, I can see this as a catalyst for Felicity to start mass producing the chip (which is her new goal to help people). Start a whole medical division of PT.

It's not confirmed, it's just my assumption going by the interview and the actress saying we will find out what makes her so mean. 9times out of 10 it seems like the villains' motivation are their loved ones being hurt in some way -Malcolm, Ivo, Slade, Helena, Maseo...

[kismet]

Well because in many ways the villain is often the hero of their own story. So of course the actors are going to create a motivation that might often involve a loved one, it makes them more human. And a human villain can often be more relatable to an audience.

 

However it doesn't always work, for me interestingly when they introduced DD's family, is when I felt he was becoming a weaker villain. I enjoyed when he was just abstractly evil. I didn't think bringing in his family made him more relatable it just took away his mystique. So sometimes its a mixed bag when people are finding inspiration for their villains/characters.

[looptab]

I think the reasoning here wasn't related to what the actors might think or not think. The show itself often gives the need for revenge/find a cure as motivation for the villains - as those @bijoux listed above.

[bijoux]

I think the reasoning here wasn't related to what the actors might think or not think. The show itself often gives the need for revenge/find a cure as motivation for the villains - as those @bijoux listed above.

 

Yes. I wasn't speaking about Barrowman's or Karl Yune's headcanons, but what the show has presented when it came to these characters. Frankly, it's hard to come up with an Arrow villain whose motivation (if we were offered insight into it) doesn't have to do with a loved one, most often a family member, off the top of my head.The only one that instantly springs to mind is, sadly, Savage. Oooh, and the original Count. Maybe that's one of the reasons I really appreciate him as a villain.

[nksarmi]

I knew we'd get the death before the break - well unless it is a cliffhanger - but I wanted the funeral as well.  I just wanted everything about it done.  Then we can have 20-23 be all about the take down of HIVE.  But I guess they feel like death, two weeks off, fall out and revenge works better.

[Guest]

I can see them having a cliffhanger. If 419 is called Canary Cry, I can totally see some of the audience thinking that means it's Laurel dying or it means Laurel is upset about her dad dying. Depending on how things go, I wouldn't put it past them to drag this out another week or two.

 

I'm so over the breaks though. Let's just get it done. We're losing momentum. 

[doesntworkonwood]

Question: Is it normal for US shows to have this many breaks? I'm really used to shows being quite short (anything between 3 and 12 episodes) so I'm not really used to weird short breaks in the middle of a series, and I can't think of any reason it could be positive for a show to have this many (or even any) breaks. We don't even really break up for Christmas here, you're more likely to have a series in the run up to Christmas, have it end just before, and then another one start on boxing day or new year. 

[quarks]

Yes. I wasn't speaking about Barrowman's or Karl Yune's headcanons, but what the show has presented when it came to these characters. Frankly, it's hard to come up with an Arrow villain whose motivation (if we were offered insight into it) doesn't have to do with a loved one, most often a family member, off the top of my head.The only one that instantly springs to mind is, sadly, Savage. Oooh, and the original Count. Maybe that's one of the reasons I really appreciate him as a villain.

 

It says something about these flashbacks that one villain with a different motivation was mentioned just last week: Baron Reiter. He's motivated by The Power of Evil Island, also Memories of Something Boring. Conklin was motivated by distrust of Oliver. Or, alternatively, their annoyance at getting stuck in the most boring plot of the season turned them evil. I'll buy that. 

 

Back in the first season, Fyers was motivated by money and the desire to destroy the Chinese economy.  Diggle's old friend was motivated by bitterness from the system and a country that failed to recognize him when he returned from war. Last season Felicity's ex was also mostly motivated by a desire to get back at the system and get out of jail and then make lots and lots of money to make up for all the jail stuff.  This season, the card metahuman was just doing a job he was paid to do, and also was apparently dealing with the annoyance of constantly having painful burning cards attached to his skin which would make anyone evil, when you think about it. Anarky originally was also just mad at the system/hired by Darhk, and now he's just mad because he got burnt up. 

[quarks]

Question: Is it normal for US shows to have this many breaks? I'm really used to shows being quite short (anything between 3 and 12 episodes) so I'm not really used to weird short breaks in the middle of a series, and I can't think of any reason it could be positive for a show to have this many (or even any) breaks. We don't even really break up for Christmas here, you're more likely to have a series in the run up to Christmas, have it end just before, and then another one start on boxing day or new year. 

 

Showing my age here, but yeah - it used to be completely standard. Networks would order 16 to 23 episodes of most shows, and try to string those episodes out through fall/spring, with plenty of repeats, plus more repeats over the summer - that way they could show an episode twice or even three times, before selling the show into syndication. 

 

That worked great before VCRs, allowing viewers to catch up with episodes they missed. It was also one reason TV Guide became so popular - it could be relied on to tell viewers when a repeat was on, unlike certain other media outlets.

 

In my own opinion, with DVRs, DVDs, streaming, and other options, it's working a lot less well now, probably one reason why ABC is changing the model to work with the same number of episodes, but split into two mini seasons, and purchasing mini seasons of other shows.

[kismet]

I think the reasoning here wasn't related to what the actors might think or not think. The show itself often gives the need for revenge/find a cure as motivation for the villains - as those @bijoux listed above.

I agree with @bijoux's reasoning. I don't think I fully explained my thought in my previous post. The villian is a hero in their own journey was not just an actor thought process inspiration, but also a writers thing based on wher real villains get their motivation. Because the reality is that a lot of real life criminals and villians have very personal motivators for their actions & choices which often involve loved ones. The actors and the writers are channelling that reality.

Then of course there are just some pure evil people and sociopaths. I am glad that Arrow has a balance of bad guys. I don't think I could watch a show that only had one type.

[Velocity23]

Awww everybody and their mama know Birds of Prey on Earth I not possible

 

[Sakura12]

Once what's her face is gone, maybe they can do a Sara Lance is Earth 2 Black Canary. And since Oliver's dead in Earth 2 they never had the cheating sister scandal. The only issue is they can't use Oracle in the we want to keep DCTV and DCMovie separate but not really verse. They can even go with Earth 4 or something where it should make no difference to the movie verse. 

[Morrigan2575]

You know what?  The cheesy lines actually worked for me because it seemed like Brie was using them to deliberately mock a cliche...either that or Emily Kinney is such a bad actress that she's good at cheese.

[hogwash]

The bee puns are gonna kill me.

[apinknightmare]

The head of the board is one of the worst actors I've ever seen on this show.

[Midnight Lullaby]

I was laughing when the guy was dialing 911, LOL. That's some bad acting. Also telling the villain everything she needs to know is a great move.

[Morrigan2575]

^^^Agreed

[EmeraldArcher]

The head of the board is one of the worst actors I've ever seen on this show.

I can't believe how awful that whole scene was, but he was certainly the very worst. Even the other board members without lines were terrible.  Ugh.

[apinknightmare]

I can't believe how awful that whole scene was, but he was certainly the very worst. Even the other board members without lines were terrible. Ugh.

'I'M CALLING NINE-ONE-ONE!!!"

"THERE'S NO SIGNAL!!!"

https://youtu.be/Plz-bhcHryc

[Morrigan2575]

interesting producers preview.  Thea tries to talk Felicity into rejoining the team.  Felicity is making the chip her new drive now that she's "done" with Team Arrow

[Chaser]

I didn't like the "done" with TA part. TA was so much apart of her. It doesn't sit right with me.

I do like Thea seeking her out. I do like Felicity still trying to help people.

[Midnight Lullaby]

It pains me to admit it but I would have taken the one person who didn't justify the lie (Laurel) over Thea, who not only excused Oliver but told him to go ahead and lie some more, if someone had to talk to Felicity about joining the team again. That is unless Thea feels bad but I bet that's not it. I think they are bringing Thea and Felicity closer because they will soon be the only two women on the team and it also makes sense since they were supposed and will be family one day.

[looptab]

Is it just me or are these producer's previews getting shorter and shorter? They didn't even mention Curtis or anything else that happens in the episode.

Edited March 30, 2016 by looptab

[AyChihuahua]

It pains me to admit it but I would have taken the one person who didn't justify the lie (Laurel) over Thea, who not only excused Oliver but told him to go ahead and lie some more, if someone had to talk to Felicity about joining the team again. That is unless Thea feels bad but I bet that's not it. I think they are bringing Thea and Felicity closer because they will soon be the only two women on the team and it also makes sense since they were supposed and will be family one day.

I'm totally done with Thea now, so I feel the same, although for less charitable reasons. She's one of my least-favorite characters now. I didn't like her in S1, liked her okay in 2A, hated her in 2B, was bored and tired of her and Oliver's weird relationship in 3, mostly okay with her in 4A, but I'm just done now.

 

I really think there's something wrong with the, I guess it'd be Dearden, bloodline.

[Midnight Lullaby]

I have never minded Thea until this season because it seemed at times it was the year of Thea instead of the year of Diggle and all for a SL we saw in S3 already.

But I would honestly feel uncomfortable if I were Thea to go talk to Felicity and I'd send Laurel.

MG said Felicity leaving the team will have consequences (not in this episode but in the future). Is he talking about Laurel's death? And in that case is he ready for new delightful open letters? LOL

[looptab]

Y'know... I just realized. I'm deathly afraid that the heart to heart between Curtis and Felicity is going to be written by Keto and not MG. Sorry, but I feel like Keto has a personal vendetta against Felicity and always, without fail, writes her extremely poorly

No worries. Marc will handle the Felicity part and leave the death to Keto. Since she's the only one who likes Laurel and all. :)

[AyChihuahua]

That would require Thea to be self-aware. Which she is not.

 

If she apologizes to Felicity for encouraging him to lie, I'll be a lot more okay with her, but I doubt it will happen.

 

If it turns out that Felicity leaving the team, and therefore removing her awesomeness from the team, somehow contributes to Laurel's death, I'll kind of laugh. If people then attack Felicity for "causing" Laurel's death, I'll really laugh...because that would be the people who've DESPERATELY wanted her off the team AND the show for years now. People who were sure she was in the grave, because, inter alia, Curtis could so easily replace her. The level of hypocrisy denoted by that stance would cause me to giggle. A lot.

Edited March 30, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[EmeraldArcher]

I'm totally done with Thea now, so I feel the same, although for less charitable reasons. She's one of my least-favorite characters now. I didn't like her in S1, liked her okay in 2A, hated her in 2B, was bored and tired of her and Oliver's weird relationship in 3, mostly okay with her in 4A, but I'm just done now.

 

I really think there's something wrong with the, I guess it'd be Dearden, bloodline.

Ok, so I know that 1) you usually base your eventually-proven-correct-pre-episode comments on the experiences you've had with the show so far and the terrible choices the writers consistently make and 2) you react the way most emotionally healthy people should, BUT, maybe it's premature to doubt Thea's intentions?  Maybe she actually validates Felicity and encourages her not to give up on something she loves and is a critical part of because Oliver has been such a big dumb dummy? Maybe Thea's first conversation with her includes an apology for encouraging Oliver to lie? Seriously, if people can be brought back from the dead, surely our heroes can be redeemed?* Oh, wait.

 

*Heroes don't normally have redemption stories this far along in their hero journey, right?  So, MG really has done something game-changing with this show!

[Velocity23]

7 Days! Tick Tock!