Spoiler Discussion Thread

[statsgirl]

I can easily believe that CL/Sara was brought in with an expiration date but like EBR, she knocked their socks off when they saw her in the role.  But unlike Felicity, they needed Sara to be a temporary character because for reasons, Laurel had to become the Black Canary and so they killed Sara blue dead to make sure the audience wasn't hoping for her return.  If Berlanti & Co,. hadn't needed her to sell LoT because Brandon Routh wasn't enough, I think Sara would have stayed in that grave.

 

I want Laurel to have a Big Hero Death, saving anyone but Felicity.  While I think it would thrill MG to have the idea of Olicity killing Lauriver, no one on the show, not EBR, KC or SA deserves the kind of hate that would bring.

[Primal Slayer]

I doub't they care about her interviews on some random website. Like a lot of things with this show, it all depends on how you view it. I saw Laurel transition into Black Canary and get a lot of praise for being the best thing about S3 and since then, apart from her Sara run at the beginning of S4, her character has gotten a lot more positive press then in the past. Of course there are those that still dislike her but there are still those that lke her and she didn't turn anyone away from the show.

[Scribbles]

She (LL/BC) should die as she lived.  The death should have something to do with not telling the truth, being headstrong, defying good advice and being reckless with a strong history of rushing to judgment (often the wrong one).

 

Season 3 Laurel was the culmination of a great deal of screentime that developed a full character with tendencies and traits.  Season four LL continued with the same---lying to people close to her, charging into situations ill informed and ill prepared without regard for broad consequences. 

 

Unless the next two/three episodes she finds enlightenment and emerges a whole different character than she has been for three and a half seasons, she will die because she decides she knows better than all the others, lies and rushes into danger without a cool head.  Someone will tell her to stay and she immediately will charge in...that is LL.

[Genki]

 

When this promo image of Sara for LoT was released I honestly found it to be another nail in LL's coffin.

[Starfish35]

Yeah I've actually been a little surprised at how much they still put her in black on LoT.

[BkWurm1]

Oh dear. Sorry guys, I didn't mean to start an argument. I just want Sara Back in Black.

:)

I'll see myself out.

How about a compromise.  When a name is needed, Sara can still be called the White Canary, but end the need to keep her in the grey overalls.  Boom, back in black but all ironic with the name.  Personally, I don't want Sara to be called the Black Canary.  I want her to forge her own legacy. 

[EmilyBettFan]

The only one I saw being completely disrespected for the show to her face was Emily Bett by that tv fanatic person Carissa at SDCC.

[lizonthefritz]

Going back to the discussion a few pages back about the network being the roadblock to the writers killing off/writing off Laurel, I feel that there could be some real merit to that. Just the fact that they've overhauled the character every season (except for this one, which could be a clue as to who's in the grave in and of itself) shows that the writers felt that she wasn't working. So the network probably insisted that they keep her, they spitball a number of ideas, pitch it to the CW, get the go-ahead, and start writing it.

 

I feel like the writers' approach to Laurel at the start of every new season has had a decided "going back to school" feeling about it. You may not love school (read: the fact that the network is forcing you to write for Laurel), but you're recharged and raring to go, wanting to give it your all. But by mid-season, you're just tired of writing for a character that doesn't inspire you, leading to lackluster arcs, if any at all.

 

I'm about 99% convinced that Laurel's in the grave (up from about 80% during the winter hiatus) and I'm hoping it means good things for the characters I actually care about if she's gone. I don't expect miracles, these are after all the writers who thought BMD was a good idea, but I at least hope my favorite characters will be given more to do now that they're not writing for the dead weight.

[BkWurm1]

I think the fact that they DIDN'T seem to be really writing for Laurel (past bringing back Sara) this season is what made me first think maybe Laurel in the grave was actually a possibility.  I spent a lot of time over on the site that shall not be named not really believing Laurel would die but explaining why IMO it made lots of sense that she should be the one in the grave. 

 

All the spoilers have filtered even to over there and I'm finding it interesting that denial is the current mood I am picking up.  Even so, I have found I no longer find it necessary to argue why it's logical for Laurel to be in the grave.  :)

Edited March 8, 2016 by BkWurm1

[bijoux]

Waiting for any new spoilers or location photos, I came across this. Accurate.

 

[Midnight Lullaby]

It's still my belief that if Sara had a better response, audience wise, in her season 2B arc they would have written LL off as it was their intention since season 1. But what made and makes the show work IMO is OTA and sidelining Felicity and Diggle to make a new character shine didn't do her any favors. I also think if they believed Ray could lead his own show as it was planned they wouldn't have resurrected her but he had a poor reception as well. People didn't stop watching S3 after Sara died so she wasn't that vital on Arrow but given her potential and CL's talent in doing stunts I think they found a better use for her and I don't think she can complain since she basically became the lead of her own show.

Also I think the respect the writers owe the actor is to give them a fair chance for the character they are supposed to play. KC was given a fair chance in season 1 and she didn't meet the expectations. After that I think they didn't really know what to do with her anymore but it's not like she is the only one who was given poor material on that show.

CL was given a fair chance in season 2B and she fell flat as well.

I think Sara deserved a better death but not because the character or the actress were mistreated but because it was unnecessary to throw her body on a dumpster and freeze her. It wasn't nice to watch as a viewer.

I'm not a fan of LL but still I don't enjoy characters being treated like Sara was in that scene so I hope they will give her a respectful death.

[lizonthefritz]

I think the fact that they DIDN'T seem to be really writing for Laurel (past bringing back Sara) this season is what made me first think maybe Laurel in the grave was actually a possibility.  I spent a lot of time over on the site that shall not be named not really believing Laurel would die but explaining why IMO it made lots of sense that she should be the one in the grave. 

 

I agree. The fact that there was no new arc for her this season was a big reason why I was 80 % convinced she was in the grave before this latest batch of spoilers came out. I could only think of three reasons for why they were writing her this way:

 

1. She was in the grave and that was the only arc they needed for her this season.
2. They were planning to turn her evil, probably by killing off Quentin, and didn't want to tip their hand too early.
3. They really REALLY didn't give a crap about her at all.

[nksarmi]

When I first figured out they were killing Sara so the mantle could pass to Laurel - I was pissed.  I loved Sara.  I thought she integrated into the team perfectly.  Hell, I could even see her fitting in if they either a) skipped Sara and Oliver sleeping together or b) had her gradually realize that she was "comfortable" to Oliver but he really didn't love her and had her tell him they should just be fighting partners instead of bed partners.  In other words, I think this show could have had Sara and full fledged "Olicity."

 

But in hindsight, I do think the plan was always to bring in Sara and kill her off.  And also in hindsight, IF they had done a lot of things differently - that might have even worked.  IF they had told us that Laurel took up martial arts or kick boxing after the Gambit sunk to deal with her rage AND had her take it up again at the end of season two as a way of NOT drinking.  IF they had Laurel voice that her pain in season two was all about losing Tommy and feeling guilty that she had slept with Oliver before Tommy died (this is my head canon but I don't think the show ever expressed this sentiment). IF they had focused on having Laurel and Sara bond more instead of essentially having them fight over Oliver again.  Or hell, even if Sara had followed up on Huntress telling Laurel that she had "let the darkness" inside so Sara starting training her as a way of helping Laurel "deal" with the darkness.  And probably MOST importantly - if they had given Sara a hero's death and made Laurel's transformation about vowing vengeance on her killer than it all might have worked.

 

But just like so many other things on Arrow - good ideas are poorly executed.

 

For me, calling Laurel's transformation into BC one of the bright spots of season three is like saying something was bad in a sea of awful.  Personally, I don't think she was a bright spot of the season - I think it was in the middle. For me, it goes something like Malcolm's mind-rape of Thea/Sara's unavenged death at the worst / then Oliver's journey into the LoA complete with the forced marriage to Nyssa / then Laurel's journey to BC / then Ray and Felicity in the middle.  I think the bright spots are things related to Diggle (his wedding and baby Sara) and Roy and even though they felt unneeded, I actually liked the flashbacks last season.  Yea, season three was dreck lol.

 

But anyway, I have felt for a long time that the writers hated KC/Laurel or both.  While I am willing to believe that there is a general disconnect between what these people think is good and what the audience thinks is good - I can't believe they can be that clueless.  With the behind the scenes rumors being collected and analyzed here - I'm starting to suspect that they were writing her character in a passive-aggressive way OR more likely, they just didn't give enough of a damn about her to write her well.  And KC couldn't save it.  And while I'm not sure anyone could have really saved it - I do think some of the fault likes on her.  We gets reports all the time that some things we like the most are ad libed by actors (in this show's case - SA and EBR).  So, if KC wanted to - she probably could have ad libed some things to inch Laurel up in the likability scale a little, but she didn't.

 

I hope they write her a solid death that won't create needless fan outrage (like dying saving Felicity) AND I hope it's the end of Black Canary in the Flarrowverse.  I can't believe I'm saying this, but they have done this character wrong and done it to death.  It needs to stop here.  I am fine with Sara being White Canary.  I wish she was even MORE separated from this drama - like if Nyssa had a chance to see her and name her something entirely new.  But I don't want Sara dragged into the whole BC argument anymore even if she embodied the comic book character more than Laurel ever could.

 

 

Edited March 8, 2016 by nksarmi

[Scribbles]

I have to challenge the idea that the writers haven't given LL an arc this season.  Maybe the curve is more of a spike with a more gradual resolution than a smooth curve, but it is there.  LL chose to act in a way that so far has produced a lot of consequences for a lot of the characters.  When she crept off in secret with Thea to give Sara a dip in the pool, she ignited a chain of issues.

1.  The slower burn between Malcolm and Nyssa was fueled to fire with Nyssa destroying the pit and Malcolm confining her to a cell.  The fall out of that is still playing out for everyone.

2.  Malcolm's fall from Ras to new HIVE drone all followed the showdown between Malcolm and Nyssa following the destruction of the Lazarus pit, with William the pawn that got taken.

3.  Although alive, Sara is burdened with a curse we still don't know how she will ultimately resolve.

and on and on.....

 

We know LL is going to seek a conviction of Darhk.  It is a terrible idea for her to be the prosecutor.  In court the accused has rights regarding chain of evidence and facing the accuser (something written as an issue in season 3 with the new Vertigo).  If wise, cool headed and so forth, LL would not act as the prosecuting attorney because she should know she is too close to matters being tried.  However, because she is LL as portrayed for years, she will forge recklessly ahead to be the hero and others will pay for it.

[Morrigan2575]

2nd Unit (stunts?) was filming at a place that is a Hospital in real life but, doesn't look like one.  I'm guessing they're using it for a different purpose, City Hall?

[Chaser]

My first thought was Mayoral. City Hall looks right.

[SmallScreenDiva]

That's what it came across for me as well, City Hall. Or court. We know the mayoral campaign returns at some point because of that spoiler about a place dressed up in red and blue balloons. I wonder if they'll have Oliver win because of write-ins, despite the fact he suspended his campaign. Or if someone else will step up against Mrs. Darhk.

 

Also, when 4x16 stills come out, I need a portrait of Oliver and Felicity in their wedding attire posed like it's prom night for LOLz.

[lizonthefritz]

I have to challenge the idea that the writers haven't given LL an arc this season.  Maybe the curve is more of a spike with a more gradual resolution than a smooth curve, but it is there.  LL chose to act in a way that so far has produced a lot of consequences for a lot of the characters.  When she crept off in secret with Thea to give Sara a dip in the pool, she ignited a chain of issues.

1.  The slower burn between Malcolm and Nyssa was fueled to fire with Nyssa destroying the pit and Malcolm confining her to a cell.  The fall out of that is still playing out for everyone.

2.  Malcolm's fall from Ras to new HIVE drone all followed the showdown between Malcolm and Nyssa following the destruction of the Lazarus pit, with William the pawn that got taken.

3.  Although alive, Sara is burdened with a curse we still don't know how she will ultimately resolve.

and on and on.....

 

But none of these things that you mention are an arc for Laurel. They don't even affect her. It's actually as if they did her one final disservice by having one of her last actions on the show kickstart a bunch of storylines for other characters while leaving her with a big fat goose egg.

[looptab]

She's kickstarted her own death. Works just fine as an arc for me :)

[bijoux]

2nd Unit (stunts?) was filming at a place that is a Hospital in real life but, doesn't look like one.  I'm guessing they're using it for a different purpose, City Hall?

Bamford posted a pic from another angle on Instagram and someone suggested an asylum.

[quarks]

Maybe Oliver is deciding to head to his fifth university - bringing us to season five: juggling the roles of mayor, vigilante AND college student, complete with wacky hijinks like YOU HAVE FAILED THIS FRATERNITY!

[Scribbles]

But none of these things that you mention are an arc for Laurel. They don't even affect her. It's actually as if they did her one final disservice by having one of her last actions on the show kickstart a bunch of storylines for other characters while leaving her with a big fat goose egg.

Laurel's arc goes as follows.  Entering Season 4 Laurel seems to have found a way to deal with the grief following her sister's death, she is working with Thea and Diggle to fight crime {Intro).  Upon discovering Thea was returned to life by the Lazarus pit, Laurel sneaks away with Thea to bring Sara back to life.  Her actions conflict with the advice of friends and enemies, but as LL is apt to do she forges ahead despite that advice {Rising Action}.  Sara returns cursed and at the costs of a civil war within the LOA, the lives of girls looking like Thea and so on.  An unseated Malcolm as Ras, seeks a new source of power/influence at the cost of revealing Oliver has a son, the action continues to rise. I would argue Laurel was affected by the reveal Oliver had a son resulting from yet another instance of his cheating on her.  She can't write it off to Sara as some one instance of the lack of honesty in their relationship, there is living proof Oliver was in a different relationship with her than she was with him.  She accused Sara of ruining her life by getting on the boat with Oliver, but the truth is Sara was one of many.  Quentin is not surprised by Oliver having a love child, Laurel is.  She has to face that the lies she told herself and the blames she placed on others have kept her from wrestling her own demons.  If we have not seen those conflicts climax, we could soon.  She is in an arc, and if it plays out by convention her hubris or her Achilles heel will be her downfall.

 

I really think her role in being the prosecutor will be a huge factor in her death.  No rational attorney would act as the prosecutor under these circumstances.  She is entering a minefield where her inside knowledge could make her vulnerable in the courtroom and risk effective prosecution.  At the very least she is making herself a high profile target.  We will see how they choose to write the rest of her arc, but if she is the one in the grave ....all we lack of her arc is the falling action to be revealed.

[dtissagirl]

All of that stuff happened around Laurel, but that's not a narrative arc. She had a goal to achieve in bringing Sara back, but since then, she doesn't. She doesn't have a narrative conflict, something she has to struggle with, either as a lawyer [not shown at all] or as a superhero [she's done growing as a superhero]. She doesn't even have personal/relationship conflicts, like every other character got this season.

 

She is getting some plotty lawyer things to do in the next episode, but it's really the first story beat she'll get since 405.

Edited March 8, 2016 by dtissagirl

[wonderwall]

She is getting some plotty lawyer things to do in the next episode, but it's really the first story beat she'll get since 405.

 

Question is, how much of her lawyering will we see? The episode seems jam packed as it is with Damien in prison, Malcolm visiting Damien, all the Cupid stuff... I'm pretty sure it's only going to be like a couple of scenes. Which I kind of feel bad for Laurel fans because they've been looking forward to this since MG spoiled that Lawyer Laurel was coming up...

[Morrigan2575]

Question is, how much of her lawyering will we see? The episode seems jam packed as it is with Damien in prison, Malcolm visiting Damien, all the Cupid stuff... I'm pretty sure it's only going to be like a couple of scenes. Which I kind of feel bad for Laurel fans because they've been looking forward to this since MG spoiled that Lawyer Laurel was coming up...

Probably not much since it seems to be the B Plot.

[dtissagirl]

If the lawyer thing ends up giving her stuff to do for more than one episode, then they're giving her a last arc before they kill her. If it's contained to 416, then it's not a storyline, it's just an isolated story beat.

[Morrigan2575]

I think it'll come down to who the "Him" is.  If it's Darhk then I can see it going beyond 416. If it's Malcolm, I think Lawyer Laurel will be just a single episode story.

 

As of now, I believe Lawyer Laurel is just a one episode story.

[tv echo]

FYI, I just posted some news reports from 2013-14 on CL's casting (including quotes from AK and CL) in the Social Media thread. 

 

I think that we can fully expect the death to be a heroic one - whoever dies. I'm imagining something along the lines of Jean Grey sacrificing herself to save everyone else in the plane in that X-Men movie.

Edited March 8, 2016 by tv echo

[Starfish35]

FYI, I just posted some news reports from 2013-14 on CL's casting (including quotes from AK and CL) in the Social Media thread.

Thank you!

I think that we can fully expect the death to be a heroic one - whoever dies. I'm imagining something along the lines of Jean Grey sacrificing herself to save everyone else in the plane in that X-Men movie.

I'd be fine with that for Laurel. I'd be quite pleased with that actually. Let her go out a big damn hero.

[lizonthefritz]

Laurel's arc goes as follows.  Entering Season 4 Laurel seems to have found a way to deal with the grief following her sister's death, she is working with Thea and Diggle to fight crime {Intro).  Upon discovering Thea was returned to life by the Lazarus pit, Laurel sneaks away with Thea to bring Sara back to life.  Her actions conflict with the advice of friends and enemies, but as LL is apt to do she forges ahead despite that advice {Rising Action}.  Sara returns cursed and at the costs of a civil war within the LOA, the lives of girls looking like Thea and so on.  An unseated Malcolm as Ras, seeks a new source of power/influence at the cost of revealing Oliver has a son, the action continues to rise. I would argue Laurel was affected by the reveal Oliver had a son resulting from yet another instance of his cheating on her.  She can't write it off to Sara as some one instance of the lack of honesty in their relationship, there is living proof Oliver was in a different relationship with her than she was with him.  She accused Sara of ruining her life by getting on the boat with Oliver, but the truth is Sara was one of many.  Quentin is not surprised by Oliver having a love child, Laurel is.  She has to face that the lies she told herself and the blames she placed on others have kept her from wrestling her own demons.  If we have not seen those conflicts climax, we could soon.  She is in an arc, and if it plays out by convention her hubris or her Achilles heel will be her downfall.

 

I really think her role in being the prosecutor will be a huge factor in her death.  No rational attorney would act as the prosecutor under these circumstances.  She is entering a minefield where her inside knowledge could make her vulnerable in the courtroom and risk effective prosecution.  At the very least she is making herself a high profile target.  We will see how they choose to write the rest of her arc, but if she is the one in the grave ....all we lack of her arc is the falling action to be revealed.

 

I don't feel that the BM reaction has anything to do with a seasonal arc for Laurel. At most, it's her having her eyes opened as to what her relationship with Oliver really was (i.e. not the grand romance she - or at least KC - imagined), giving her a chance to close the book on that whole mess. But that's something that's been ongoing since season 1 and not really applicable to her current situation.

 

All of that stuff happened around Laurel, but that's not a narrative arc. She had a goal to achieve in bringing Sara back, but since then, she doesn't. She doesn't have a narrative conflict, something she has to struggle with, either as a lawyer [not shown at all] or as a superhero [she's done growing as a superhero]. She doesn't even have personal/relationship conflicts, like every other character got this season.

 

She is getting some plotty lawyer things to do in the next episode, but it's really the first story beat she'll get since 405.

 

I gotta agree with @dtissagirl, a few disparate events do not a seasonal arc make.

[kismet]

2nd Unit (stunts?) was filming at a place that is a Hospital in real life but, doesn't look like one.  I'm guessing they're using it for a different purpose, City Hall?

It does look like it could be City Hall or a Court... But my question is, do we know that they are using exterior shots?

 

I wonder if they just needed a room inside the hospital. Perhaps it's something related to the Genesis Project or more HIVE stuff. There are often a lot of laboratories and other multi-purpose rooms that could be used for HIVE stories.

 

It does have an asylum feel to it from the outside, but there is nothing coming up from the spoilers that would indicate the need for an asylum.

[Scribbles]

All of that stuff happened around Laurel, but that's not a narrative arc. She had a goal to achieve in bringing Sara back, but since then, she doesn't. She doesn't have a narrative conflict, something she has to struggle with, either as a lawyer [not shown at all] or as a superhero [she's done growing as a superhero]. She doesn't even have personal/relationship conflicts, like every other character got this season.

 

She is getting some plotty lawyer things to do in the next episode, but it's really the first story beat she'll get since 405.

Maybe this is where we see it differently....Laurel always has a narrative conflict, Laurel is her own worst enemy.  Laurel's choices constantly create mayhem, despair, and unnecessary conflict.  She doesn't need a direct nemesis, truth and her own behaviors reap enough trouble.  For multiple seasons we have watched as the consequences are felt by others, it would be very "earned" for them to fall on her.  We have yet to see her feel the brunt of the choices she has made this season.  So for me, whether she has an arc this season rests with how it is resolved and we haven't see that yet.

 

If she dies simply because she was made a target via Quentin's betrayal of Darhk, her death was earned by Quentin's choices.  If she dies because she yet again stays true to character and acts impulsively, she will finally pay her own freight for her journey to being a "hero"

[Ann Mack]

Wondering - what becomes of Arrow if Laurel Lance isn't in the grave? Think about it -there has been tremendous out-pours and posts gladly and openly celebrating her demise. Katie would have had to definitely stayed off or been off SM to not see how some are wishing and a hoping for her demise. Yes some are defending and speaking of dropping the show and calling out the writers and anyone else who will listen almost to the cry of "Long Live Laurel Lance The Black Canary"! But.....

 

what happens if the show makes/made the DECISION to make it someone else?

 

How does it come back from I think the more numerous amount of people watching the show who want her gone. What do they now do with this character? If they even looked in the direction of trying a Laurel/Oliver reconciliation I truly think that is when the number of viewers would really drop. Do they incorporate more of her day job into the episodes, give her a love interest, make her more relevant to Team Arrow - seriously what would they do with her?

 

Again that thought was running quickly through my brain. If this is considered some how fan talk or not a topic that should be discussed in this thread then I apologize in advance. But I'm truly curious as to what others think about the "what if" of it all (regardless of what pictures and paparazzi might be posting and saying)?

Edited March 9, 2016 by Ann Mack

[Primal Slayer]

Katie Cassidy has been dealing with Laurel Lance death wishes since probably the first season for whatever reasons, seeing praise for her character being killed off is not surprising to her. 

 

IF somehow everyone has been wrong and the they actually surprise us with a switcheroo, they either keep themselves on auto-pilot when it comes to Laurel or they actually start writing for her again and treat the character with respect. Use her more in the stories, actually let her profession have a purpose again, especially if Oliver is mayor. They always had this kind of unique way of seeing what happens to these criminals after they are caught and they never took full advantage of that.

[Ann Mack]

Katie Cassidy has been dealing with Laurel Lance death wishes since probably the first season for whatever reasons, seeing praise for her character being killed off is not surprising to her. 

 

IF somehow everyone has been wrong and the they actually surprise us with a switcheroo, they either keep themselves on auto-pilot when it comes to Laurel or they actually start writing for her again and treat the character with respect. Use her more in the stories, actually let her profession have a purpose again, especially if Oliver is mayor. They always had this kind of unique way of seeing what happens to these criminals after they are caught and they never took full advantage of that.

Thanks for your thoughts and insight on that. 

[Scribbles]

Wondering - what becomes of Arrow if Laurel Lance isn't in the grave? Think about it -there has been tremendous out-pours and posts gladly and openly celebrating her demise. Katie would have had to definitely stayed off or been off SM to not see how some are wishing and a hoping for her demise. Yes some are defending and speaking of dropping the show and calling out the writers and anyone else who will listen almost to the cry of "Long Live Laurel Lance The Black Canary"! But.....

 

what happens if the show makes/made the DECISION to make it someone else?

My only reservations about LL/BC dying comes from the actress having to live with some things said by fans.  No one would want to be in Katie Cassidy's shoes today.

I suspect she has been carrying the weight of the negativity towards her character for a long time now.  Sometimes the cliché is true:  When a door closes a window opens.  Hopefully for KC that will be true.

 

If it is not her in the grave, I would predict the season ends with BC going away to continue her fight for justice elsewhere (Seatle maybe).  If it is not BC, the next strong candidate for grave filler is Quentin and it would provide impetus for her to go away to train to avenge him or go elsewhere to escape the personal ghosts and pains. 

 

If they continue the show with Black Canary played by KC, I hope everyone will give her credit for standing tall in the face of all the negativity.  As for the show, it would have a hole created by the loss of another character (Thea, Diggle, Quentin) who has been a part of the viewer experience since Season 1 per spoilers.  Without knowing who, it is harder to even begin to know what the story of Arrow minus X character could be.  The BC story however would have to have content and it would be time for her to have a love interest of her own. The producers don't seem to have much interest in a courthouse drama, so Laurel the lawyer doesn't have much room to roam.  Perhaps a personal villain could provide a B plot.

[Ann Mack]

My only reservations about LL/BC dying comes from the actress having to live with some things said by fans.  No one would want to be in Katie Cassidy's shoes today.

I suspect she has been carrying the weight of the negativity towards her character for a long time now.  Sometimes the cliché is true:  When a door closes a window opens.  Hopefully for KC that will be true.

 

If it is not her in the grave, I would predict the season ends with BC going away to continue her fight for justice elsewhere (Seatle maybe).  If it is not BC, the next strong candidate for grave filler is Quentin and it would provide impetus for her to go away to train to avenge him or go elsewhere to escape the personal ghosts and pains. 

 

If they continue the show with Black Canary played by KC, I hope everyone will give her credit for standing tall in the face of all the negativity.  As for the show, it would have a hole created by the loss of another character (Thea, Diggle, Quentin) who has been a part of the viewer experience since Season 1 per spoilers.  Without knowing who, it is harder to even begin to know what the story of Arrow minus X character could be.  The BC story however would have to have content and it would be time for her to have a love interest of her own. The producers don't seem to have much interest in a courthouse drama, so Laurel the lawyer doesn't have much room to roam.  Perhaps a personal villain could provide a B plot.

Thank you. Really enjoy reading others insight on the question.

[nksarmi]

Wondering - what becomes of Arrow if Laurel Lance isn't in the grave? Think about it -there has been tremendous out-pours and posts gladly and openly celebrating her demise. Katie would have had to definitely stayed off or been off SM to not see how some are wishing and a hoping for her demise. Yes some are defending and speaking of dropping the show and calling out the writers and anyone else who will listen almost to the cry of "Long Live Laurel Lance The Black Canary"! But.....

 

what happens if the show makes/made the DECISION to make it someone else?

 

How does it come back from I think the more numerous amount of people watching the show who want her gone. What do they now do with this character? If they even looked in the direction of trying a Laurel/Oliver reconciliation I truly think that is when the number of viewers would really drop. Do they incorporate more of her day job into the episodes, give her a love interest, make her more relevant to Team Arrow - seriously what would they do with her?

 

Again that thought was running quickly through my brain. If this is considered some how fan talk or not a topic that should be discussed in this thread then I apologize in advance. But I'm truly curious as to what others think about the "what if" of it all (regardless of what pictures and paparazzi might be posting and saying)?

 

Well first and foremost I hope the EPs apologize profusely to KC if she is indeed not the one in the grave because damn, they could have put an end to this and haven't and that kind of sucks.

 

But if Laurel lives on, I'd want the same things from her that I wanted all of last season and this one....

 

1. More training.  Frankly, I think the flashbacks are getting progressively worse at showing how Oliver became the vigilante of season one.  As I understand it, an archer the quality of Green Arrow would have had to practice daily for years to be as good as he is.  We haven't seen him do that in the flashbacks.  And we've barely seen him get formal combat training - he's in far more survivor mode than learning how to be an excellent fighter mode. All in all, Sara has a far more believable backstory than what we've even seen for Oliver in flashbacks, so if Laurel is going to continue to be BC - I'd like to see her training (Thea as well). 

 

2. Meaningful relationships that seem earned.  Diggle and Laurel does not feel earned because we never really saw it on screen.  Thea and Laurel are decent, but it'd be nice to see them BE friends - even if it's just them catching a movie or getting a bite to eat when they get a call from Felicity. 

 

3. Laurel needs to go ahead and pass the damn torch to Felicity in the love interest department with a "Take it from someone who knows what it looks like when Oliver is just going through the motions - he loves you, he respect you, and he needs you" type line.  Then have Laurel move on to a new love interest - it's way past time.

 

4. I'd like her to have a B-plot villain.  Maybe someone killing off people she helped when she was in her "do good" lawyering job in season one?  Something personal that she needs the team to help with but resonates with her as a character.

[kismet]

Frankly, if LL is not in the grave than I think for the characters own good it would be best for her to take a trip far away from SC and perhaps move there. I'm not saying it needs to be permanent (although I would prefer it), but truly the excitement people seem to be having about LL being in the grave is not going to translate well to her being accepted in s5. Some time away from the show may be necessary.

 

Honestly, the writers taking some time away from writing her maybe for the best. They barely write for her now, but perhaps they might get better ideas for her if they didn't feel forced to put her in every episode to stand there and cross her arms. And then if she did come back for special episodes, she could actually be of use to the story.

[Ann Mack]

Thanks to everyone who provided a response to the "what if" about Laurel Lance.

[lizonthefritz]

Maybe this is where we see it differently....Laurel always has a narrative conflict, Laurel is her own worst enemy.  Laurel's choices constantly create mayhem, despair, and unnecessary conflict.  She doesn't need a direct nemesis, truth and her own behaviors reap enough trouble.  For multiple seasons we have watched as the consequences are felt by others, it would be very "earned" for them to fall on her.  We have yet to see her feel the brunt of the choices she has made this season.  So for me, whether she has an arc this season rests with how it is resolved and we haven't see that yet.

 

If she dies simply because she was made a target via Quentin's betrayal of Darhk, her death was earned by Quentin's choices.  If she dies because she yet again stays true to character and acts impulsively, she will finally pay her own freight for her journey to being a "hero"

 

I still don't see how Laurel's character traits translate into a season-long arc. Especially considering an arc has a starting point and an ending point, usually with a lesson learned along the way. Laurel dying from her own poor choices and rash action wouldn't be the end of an arc in my mind, it would just be chickens finally coming home to roost.

 

Not to mention, I'm not sure the writers see her that way, they seem to be willfully blind to Laurel's mistakes, maybe because they just don't care enough about her to put in the effort to actually write her well.

[tv echo]

I watched the 416 extended promo video again (page 32 of Spoilers thread) and noticed there's a shot of what appears to be Malcolm visiting Darhk in prison ("HIVE is going ahead with Genesis but not with you").  This puzzles me.  Doesn't the world still think that Malcolm's dead?  And isn't he still wanted for conspiracy and mass murder - and also maybe the kidnapping of William (if Oliver shared the identity of the one-handed man with police)? 

 

So how is it that he can walk into a correctional institution and visit a prisoner there?

Edited March 9, 2016 by tv echo

[dtissagirl]

Nobody remembers anything Malcolm has done prior to 414-415. It's how Malcolm exists in this universe -- only the previous two episodes matter.

 

Also, if any law enforcement ever tries to prosecute Malcolm, all of Team Arrow in their real identities + Lance go down for obstruction of justice, harboring a terrorist, etc.

[lexicon]

I watched the 416 extended promo video again (page 32 of Spoilers thread) and noticed there's a shot of what appears to be Malcolm visiting Darhk in prison ("HIVE is going ahead with Genesis but not with you").  This puzzles me.  Doesn't the world still think that Malcolm's dead?  And isn't he still wanted for conspiracy and mass murder - and also maybe kidnapping of William (if Oliver shared the identify of the one-handed man with police)? 

 

So how is it that he can walk into a correctional institution and visit a prisoner there?

 

He is Ra's Al Ghul (must be read in the voice of JB at his scenery chewing best)

[apinknightmare]

So how is it that he can walk into a correctional institution and visit a prisoner there?

 

Well, there could be HIVE people working at Iron Heights who let him in, he could magically appear since he's "The Magician!!!" or there will be no explanation as to how he got in and out since this show is this show. 

[kismet]

So I think the only reason why MM is interested in the Genesis Project is because it will give him a new hand. Then I believe he is going to betray DD, Ruve Darhk and whoever else is running HIVE. Which is how the group will be defeated in the finale, but he will escape scott free again.

[Chaser]

I want a Nikita meets Angel meets Leverage style ending for MM. You think everything is going MM's way and the Team is at a loss, only for the tables to turn in the final act. Everything was a con set up by the good guys.

[looptab]

Malcolm has minions. That's how he does stuff. Minions and associates.

[dtissagirl]

I want a Nikita meets Angel meets Leverage style ending for MM. You think everything is going MM's way and the Team is at a loss, only for the tables to turn in the final act. Everything was a con set up by the good guys.

 

Spoiler tag for a TV show that aired last night, I'm being vague as to not even spoil which show:

Teen Wolf ended their season exactly like that

, it was extremely satisfying to watch.

[spartan]

kATIE CASSIDY return maybe for regular  season 5, we do not know encor the contract, I expect the postmortem writers, I already imagine WM saying : "we only arrived at the conclusion that laurel should be in the tome that we realized that laurel  was a real hero, and I love too olicity " LOL