Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Velocity23]

Nobody knows. Its just speculation because she posted the pic.

[AyChihuahua]

That paparazzi, Ken Pursuit, I think, said they're filming pickup shots. He seemed quite confident about it. Not sure whether "they" includes KC, or if he just means the show. Arrow could be filming 4.18 pickup shots, but that doesn't mean she's there for it.

[spartan]

Arrow sources be like "the funeral was her last day on set she even cried"

Few days later
"She still filming flashbacks or doing reshoots"(episode 18) really?

and after?

[looptab]

Oh, okay, thanks. I read "additional" and my mind immediately went to "they wrote another scene in". Pick ups make sense - I thought they were just for fixing errors, didn't know they could insert things as well.

Arrow sources be like "the funeral was her last day on set she even cried"

Few days later
"She still filming flashbacks or doing reshoots"(episode 18) really?

and after?

Couldn't you at least write your own posts instead of cutting and pasting other people's tweets?

Edited March 4, 2016 by looptab

[spartan]

Oh, okay, thanks. I read "additional" and my mind immediately went to "they wrote another scene in". Pick ups make sense - I thought they were just for fixing errors, didn't know they could insert things as well.

Couldn't you at least write your own posts instead of cutting and pasting other people's tweets?

uh, we ask the same questions, sorry it bothers you

[popgoesculture]

 

I hope not... because I fell like they are gonna get a lot of heat for killing another female character, so I don't want them to do anything controversial out of spite or anger. Plus even if you hate the character, she is one of the major comic book characters on the show - it would not do justice to that comic legacy to make her death non-heroic. I'm not a huge fan of LL, but even I'm disappointed that they need to kill another female character because they lack the ability to write a better exit strategy.

It's odd, because I'm also not a huge fan of LL, and maybe a season or two ago, the character exiting would've satisfied me. But honestly, there are so many issues with the show right now that she is one of the easiest to ignore. Like she has so little effect on the plot that taking her away does nothing really (same goes for Quentin)... which just makes me sad. They could've easily written her out without killing her multiple times across the show's run, to much better use. 

[dtissagirl]

Oh, okay, thanks. I read "additional" and my mind immediately went to "they wrote another scene in". Pick ups make sense - I thought they were just for fixing errors, didn't know they could insert things as well.

You know how sometimes stuff gets cut for time? The opposite also happens. Sometimes episodes fall short on time. And there's no way to figure that out until you're well into editing.

[looptab]

You know how sometimes stuff gets cut for time? The opposite also happens. Sometimes episodes fall short on time. And there's no way to figure that out until you're well into editing.

Ha. That's the weirdest thing for Arrow and its odd-paced episodes. I'd think they went like: "Ok, so and so happens, Laurel dies. Fin. WE DID IT!" They were in a hurry.

[dtissagirl]

Hee. Well, I have no idea what kind of pick up they're shooting, and I also tend to assume Arrow runs long rather than short most of the time. But it does happen.

[looptab]

It's odd, because I'm also not a huge fan of LL, and maybe a season or two ago, the character exiting would've satisfied me. But honestly, there are so many issues with the show right now that she is one of the easiest to ignore. Like she has so little effect on the plot that taking her away does nothing really (same goes for Quentin)... which just makes me sad. They could've easily written her out without killing her multiple times across the show's run, to much better use. 

That's something I'm wondering about as well. Why kill her, and not just put her on a bus. Not that I'm complaining, and I'm going to be celebrating as much as anyone else. But it'd have been 10X more satisfying last year. This year, she's just an afterthought.

[Morrigan2575]

I remember SA saying at a con that any given day they're working on 3 different episodes. He didn't specify but I'm assuming he meant principal filming, pickups/reshoots and maybe 2nd unit stuff?

I know Quarks also did a rundown of DVD commentary where they talked about reshooting scenes

[catrox14]

I have been in multiple fandoms over the years....dating back to Angel. I have never seen such a weird thing with a character as this death and whatever is happening with KC. 

 

It's the trainwreck I can't not watch. 

[statsgirl]

Speaking of venues and wedding planning...what do you think Donna was told for why they broke up? Or Mr Terrific for that matter? Does anyone get to know about the secret kid or does Felicity have to give no reason and have everyone assume he cheated on her?

I hope Donna will be sad but supportive.  Curtis may be more upset since he thinks Oliver is hot and worked so hard to finish the chip for Felicity.  Maybe he'll wonder if Felicity working with the Green Arrow is what caused the rift.

 

I have to say, I'm excited to see 4x16.  I like the idea of setting a trap for Cupid with a fake wedding because it keeps up the angst of them being separated while they both want to be together, but it's not as stupid as the BMD.  I'm pretty sure they'll be together by the end of the season so I'm going to enjoy the angst now.

 

I hope not... because I fell like they are gonna get a lot of heat for killing another female character, so I don't want them to do anything controversial out of spite or anger. Plus even if you hate the character, she is one of the major comic book characters on the show - it would not do justice to that comic legacy to make her death non-heroic. I'm not a huge fan of LL, but even I'm disappointed that they need to kill another female character because they lack the ability to write a better exit strategy.

To be fair though, on the good guys side the only male characters left are Oliver, Diggle and Quentin, and they can't kill Oliver. Curtis is still too new to make the kind of impact the EPs seem to want.  On the bad guys side, I expect either DD or MM to die and the other to be next season's Big Bad..

[lemotomato]

I hope not... because I fell like they are gonna get a lot of heat for killing another female character, so I don't want them to do anything controversial out of spite or anger. Plus even if you hate the character, she is one of the major comic book characters on the show - it would not do justice to that comic legacy to make her death non-heroic. I'm not a huge fan of LL, but even I'm disappointed that they need to kill another female character because they lack the ability to write a better exit strategy.

Sara got shot off a building and bounced off a dumpster, but LL is owed a heroic death because-- wait for it-- comics.

 

I don't give a damn about comic legacies and from the way they killed off Amanda Waller-- bad guy of the week shooting her in the head when she's defenseless-- I don't think the writers care that much either. But I do think that they should give LL a heroic send-off just to reduce the inevitable vitriol and backlash that's going to happen because they dared to get rid of a comic character.

Edited March 4, 2016 by lemotomato

[ComicFan777]

I think the big thing is impact.  If you want to change the cast like this, you would want to make it impact all the other characters.  Imagine writing LL out by having her leave town - ok, so she left, nothing is affected.  No one would really care.  If one of team dies, that impacts everyone.  It would make everyone reflect on what they are doing and is it worth doing.  It doesn't really matter if she was close to everyone on the team or not.  The point is that something happened to one of them and that changes everything for everyone.  It raises the stakes in being a superhero.  It makes every action count.  LL's death would have the biggest impact she has ever made in the show.  She had to be a full-fledge team member long enough for her to be counted as one of the team.  She had to have enough time to interact with everyone.  It's the best way for the biggest impact on every character without messing with the dynamics of the team.  She leaves and it doesn't have a ripple effect.  She dies and everyone thinks about it and their lives change because of it. 

[calliope1975]

Plus, per hack writer logic, there has to be some big catalyst to get Felicity and Oliver back together. I predict the death of a close teammate will accomplish that eventually.

Edited March 4, 2016 by calliope1975

[SonofaBiscuit]

Personally (and like I said, I'm a terrible person), I think that Laurel should die in the same reckless manner that she lived.  Like, jumping off a building and expecting Oliver to catch her without so much as a heads up.  Or jumping for a zipline before it even has a chance to anchor itself.  Just a few examples, but oh, there are others...I'm sure.    

[Sakura12]

Sara got shot 3 times, fell off a roof, bounced off a garbage dumpster before hitting cement, then was dragged across town to the Arrow lair, stuffed in a fridge then buried in a pine box in the outfit she died in. Isabel, Shado and Waller didn't get the "because comics" treatment. Why should Laurel get special treatment in her death? 

[statsgirl]

Can she be both reckless and a hero?

 

I agree that with all the comic book legacy and the anger that will come from her fans, they need to give Laurel a good death. Better than Moira got, and much better than Shado's or Sara's.

 

I have to admit that I'm amused that after all the work they went to to ensure that Sara was dead, dead, dead, (shot, fell off a building, into a dumpster, fridged) instead of just going missing so that there was no question that Laurel was going to be the Black Canary, they had to undo it all when they realized they needed Sara to  make their new show a reality.

[Chaser]

Based on nothing but rumors and spec, they would have written LL out much earlier if they could. I don't think it was about waiting for the right story, I think it was getting the go ahead from the network.

 

I'm being petty, but it wouldn't surprise me if they viewed Laurel's S3 arc a success because they could finally point to her and say "Look, we did everything for this character and we have gained an inch. It's not worth keeping her around. Let me tell you about this season long grave mystery."

Edited March 4, 2016 by Chaser

[Midnight Lullaby]

I'm also thinking that if it's true what they are saying that they wanted to write her off since S1 that Sara could have been a sort of test, meaning if she had a better response with the audience she could have been the only BC on the show. There wasn't even always the idea to bring Sara into the show. Maybe after KC's BC fell flat they finally got the approval from the Netwok to just give up.

[ComicFan777]

I think writers figure that LL has to die heroically so that no one can really question her death.  People who don't like LL would just be happy that she is gone - it doesn't really matter how she goes.  Her fans would expect her to at least die as a hero if they were going to take her out.  It's probably just the best way to appease everyone - at least as much as you can.  Comic fans can't question her death if it was heroic - in their eyes, she is an important part of the story and "iconic" because she is a hero, so dying as a hero really can't be questioned. If she died recklessly, then LL's death would just be a joke and all the storylines for other characters stemming from her death would really feel unearned.  I mean, if LL died because she was stupid and careless, why would anyone reevaluate their own life - her reckless death would just be a big contender for the Darwin awards for stupidest mistakes. 

I vote for LL's death to be reckless and heroic - it's the best compromise.

[catrox14]

I really don't think Laurel deserves a big heroic death.  She stole her sister's life so her death should be similar. TWINSY!) She can be shot with arrows, bounced off a dumpster, dragged through the city, buried, dug up, put into the Lazarus Pit, resurrected and then has LP madness and kills herself.

 

I am a terrible person.

Edited March 4, 2016 by catrox14

[kismet]

Sara got shot off a building and bounced off a dumpster, but LL is owed a heroic death because-- wait for it-- comics.

 

I don't give a damn about comic legacies and from the way they killed off Amanda Waller-- bad guy of the week shooting her in the head when she's defenseless-- I don't think the writers care that much either. But I do think that they should give LL a heroic send-off just to reduce the inevitable vitriol and backlash that's going to happen because they dared to get rid of a comic character.

I agree the way they killed Sara & Waller was horrible. And mostly completely unnecessary. I don't really care about comic legacies. But I do care about characters who have been on the show for awhile being given heroic deaths, as opposed to tragic unnecessary deaths. I personally do not understand why Arrow feels the need to kill somebody every year. However, I don't want to sit through another major character (esp a female) dying just because. I also am tired of the writers always making it the females that get tragic and unnecessarily violent deaths. So since they are gonna kill another major character (esp a female), I would prefer it be heroic.

[KenyaJ]

I have to say, I'm excited to see 4x16.  I like the idea of setting a trap for Cupid with a fake wedding because it keeps up the angst of them being separated while they both want to be together, but it's not as stupid as the BMD.  I'm pretty sure they'll be together by the end of the season so I'm going to enjoy the angst now.

 

I'm with you and excited about it for just those very reasons. Cheesy, angsty goodness!

[spartan]

based on rumors, I do believe that laurel is dead and in the grave. But I think KC is always REGULAR ON ARROW, and it stays there. I know that death is permanent, but he obviously did not finish the representation of black canary, I also know that in the comics black canary dies and comes back to life by the well of Lazare, but I'm sure the writers have imagined something else. this the new version of Black Canary will be more in line with the comics. Take the example of SPEDDY she almost died twice but came back, it is too early to kill with a single hand clap after everything laurel endured, especially that black canary has 1 year.

[ComicFan777]

I just assumed that it is usually female characters die because most of the people who are important/influential in Oliver's life happen to be female - so it ups the chances.

[kismet]

I vote for LL's death to be reckless and heroic - it's the best compromise.

I second that. I honestly expect nothing less from KC & the writers. Because every time they tried to do authentic heroic story line for her, it has always come off with a satirical sincerity that is amusing in abstract because everything she does has an element of recklessness & WTF to it. There is no way they can right her death and not have it be part reckless and heroic at the same time.

[catrox14]

I'm not trying to be an asshole here, but what has Laurel done that's been heroic really?

 

She's just one of the new Team Arrow and fights alongside Oliver and Speedy and Dig...but I swear I don't remember her actually saving anyone? 

[ComicFan777]

based on rumors, I do believe that laurel is dead and in the grave. But I think KC is always REGULAR ON ARROW, and it stays there. I know that death is permanent, but he obviously did not finish the representation of black canary, I also know that in the comics black canary dies and comes back to life by the well of Lazare, but I'm sure the writers have imagined something else. this the new version of Black Canary will be more in line with the comics. Take the example of SPEDDY she almost died twice but came back, it is too early to kill with a single hand clap after everything laurel endured, especially that black canary has 1 year.

 

Lazarus pit were destroyed because of Laurel - she kinda dug her own grave. 

If BTS rumors are true, then she is never coming back because of those reasons, too.

I think her death will be permanent no matter how you look at it.

 

[foreverevolving]

Lazarus pit were destroyed because of Laurel - she kinda dug her own grave. 

If BTS rumors are true, then she is never coming back because of those reasons, too.

I think her death will be permanent no matter how you look at it.

 

Which makes you wonder if that is the reason why destroyed the pit!

Bring Sara back and than kill the pit so when they kill Laurel her fans won't be able to scream: put her in the pit!

[ComicFan777]

I'm not trying to be an asshole here, but what has Laurel done that's been heroic really?

 

She's just one of the new Team Arrow and fights alongside Oliver and Speedy and Dig...but I swear I don't remember her actually saving anyone? 

 

I think last year, Oliver called her a hero when she helped out with the virus thing.

Yeah, nothing really obvious though...oh, she did save most of the team in 4x9 in the gas chamber.

 

Edited March 4, 2016 by ComicFan777

[spartan]

Lazarus pit were destroyed because of Laurel - she kinda dug her own grave. 

If BTS rumors are true, then she is never coming back because of those reasons, too.

I think her death will be permanent no matter how you look at it.

 

really? too bad, I know that there's metahuman , magic, future, the past, the present, different  earths, and even hell. I do not think we saw everything from black canary of laurel in this show, it's my opinion.

[catrox14]

I think last year, Oliver called her a hero when she helped out with the virus thing.

Yeah, nothing really obvious though...oh, she did save most of the team in 4x9 in the gas chamber.

 

 

Ah...yeah...okay I forgot about that! Thanks

[nksarmi]

I agree the way they killed Sara & Waller was horrible. And mostly completely unnecessary. I don't really care about comic legacies. But I do care about characters who have been on the show for awhile being given heroic deaths, as opposed to tragic unnecessary deaths. I personally do not understand why Arrow feels the need to kill somebody every year. However, I don't want to sit through another major character (esp a female) dying just because. I also am tired of the writers always making it the females that get tragic and unnecessarily violent deaths. So since they are gonna kill another major character (esp a female), I would prefer it be heroic.

 

Oddly enough, it was Shado's and Sara's deaths that bothered me the most.  I felt like - in their own ways - both Waller and Moira had heroic deaths.  They were low-key, but heroic all the same.  I think Waller knew what she was doing and if I read the scene very generously - I can believe she set herself up to be the next one to die rather than Lyla or anyone else.  Moira died to not only save her daughter but to prevent Oliver from even having to choose. 

 

But neither Shado's nor Sara's death saved anyone (I think Ivo was always going to shoot Shado) and they had both been warriors up until that point, so it was particularly sad to see them go out the way they did.  I'm glad they at least saw the light and brought Sara back.

 

ETA: I should add that I don't care how Laurel dies as long as it is somehow also responsible for Malcolm's death. If her death sets in motion the events that lead to his - I might even love her in hindsight.

Edited March 4, 2016 by nksarmi

[Ann Mack]

Is that suppose to be a current picture Katie posted some hours ago? I was just looking at the short sleeve attire of some of the crew as opposed to Dig & guy in costume but it could be warm inside, just curious!

 

**If this was answered or addressed earlier than please let me know. I just gone on and haven't read through all the previous posts just saw it on Twitter and decided to ask to try and save some time. Thanks**

Edited March 4, 2016 by Ann Mack

[Genki]

I'm not trying to be an asshole here, but what has Laurel done that's been heroic really?

 

She's just one of the new Team Arrow and fights alongside Oliver and Speedy and Dig...but I swear I don't remember her actually saving anyone? 

 

There was that time in 4.01 where she picked up the kid and he said she was "really strong!".... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

 

The fake wedding should be painful and emotional for both Oliver and Felicity, I prefer they do face the issues of the break-up and not ignore of the next episode which they have done before in the past. 

 

If nothing else there will be fan videos which can use these scenes.

 

I'm dying to tell me real-life unspoiled Arrow watching friends about Laurel, glad there is this board. 

[lemotomato]

I'm sure someone else has brought this up already, but it's rather poetic that Laurel is the one that ends up in the grave permanently after "stealing" Sara away from Death.

[Ann Mack]

I think last year, Oliver called her a hero when she helped out with the virus thing.

Yeah, nothing really obvious though...oh, she did save most of the team in 4x9 in the gas chamber.

 

Yes I find it sort of a back handed compliment from the show though. Laurel was able to help save those "nearest and dearest" to Oliver because she did not fit into either category and was away manning the tip/hotline when Damien came and took them. But yes in the end she did help but I also think they took everyone else away to give Laurel this shining moment as well.

[catrox14]

I'm sure someone else has brought this up already, but it's rather poetic that Laurel is the one that ends up in the grave permanently after "stealing" Sara away from Death.

 

And now I want a crossover where Death from SPN has a chat with Laurel about why she is nothing but an annoying little protozoa and she's lucky he didn't reap her before now. 

[ComicFan777]

Yes I find it sort of a back handed compliment from the show though. Laurel was able to help save those "nearest and dearest" to Oliver because she did not fit into either category and was away manning the tip/hotline when Damien came and took them. But yes in the end she did help but I also think they took everyone else away to give Laurel this shining moment as well.

 

Hey, it was the one time her canary power was actually useful - you totally have to give her that one. :)

[kismet]

I'm not trying to be an asshole here, but what has Laurel done that's been heroic really?

 

She's just one of the new Team Arrow and fights alongside Oliver and Speedy and Dig...but I swear I don't remember her actually saving anyone? 

She did heroic stuff in s1 with her cases of the week. She had moments of heroism and bravery sporadically throughout s1-4. Since she got the mask, basically now she just tagalongs and heros by proxy. I feel like the mask actually took away from her heroism on the show because it showed just how insignificant her spot on Team Arrow was.

 

But honestly, for me that's about all I want to say. I don't feel the need to invest any real time or effort in defending LL's heroism. I feel like she has done heroic things. She's also been an absolutely horrible person and bitch at times. I think the show will be better off without her. But I've thought that for awhile now. For me she's not a hero, but she's done heroic things.

[Jessie2009]

So do we think that pic Katie posted is an old one? I can't be positive but I'm pretty sure this was from 4x11? I'm pretty sure that's diggle and his brother.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Somebody's mentioned this before, about KC using an app to publish to her social media accounts, so she might have a ton of these old photos lined up to go. It makes sense, especially if she's been told to play along until the episode. Colton Haynes did the same thing, posting old photos/selfies with the cast when people began speculating Roy was gonna die.

[Midnight Lullaby]

So do we think that pic Katie posted is an old one? I can't be positive but I'm pretty sure this was from 4x11? I'm pretty sure that's diggle and his brother.

They are shooting pick up scenes for 4x18.

[Jessie2009]

Just because they are shooting pick up scenes, doesn't necessarily mean that pic she tweeted is the new one they are shooting. I don't believe it was confirmed the tweets were connected.

[Morrigan2575]

They are shooting pick up scenes for 4x18.

that doesn't necessarily mean her pic was new. Do we know if Andy is in 418? Because looking at that picture I was thinking 411.

[Midnight Lullaby]

Just because they are shooting pick up scenes, doesn't necessarily mean that pic she tweeted is the new one they are shooting. I don't believe it was confirmed the tweets were connected.

Well the pap answered under the tweet saying she is shooting pick up scenes for 4x18 so that's sort of a confirmation even if it isn't a certainty of course. Also David is wearing camouflage pants instead of his usual black ones and they appear to be inside Iron Heights so the pic seems from a scene we haven't watched yet IMO.

[ComicFan777]

If the photos are not selfies, couldn't someone on set just send KC the pics and have her post them on her account?  They could be current, but it doesn't mean she is necessarily there, right?

Edited March 5, 2016 by ComicFan777

[Primal Slayer]

Laurel deserves a good send off since she's been on the show since day 1. They already treat her as an afterthought majority of the time this season, I don't care who it would be who got killed, any of them would deserve a good send off.