Spoiler Discussion Thread

[wonderwall]

To be fair, I think a lot of times it's the stunt double doing the robot thing.

The robot is actually just KC haha I've seen her just shut down in the background (not as BC but as Laurel) so many times.

[catrox14]

I wasn't talking about that, I just said similar rumors about her having issues with the crew were going on back than as well.

 

I've never heard about her having issues with that cast or crew other than speaking at cons about on-set pranking being annoying and Kim Manners saying she was terrible at stage combat, which isn't necessarily a reason to fire someone. But to be fair, I also didn't watch real time back then so I'm just going off of what I know about now.  

[kismet]

Gregory Smith has directed Nanda Parbat last year (I hated it) and Taken this year.  He's also directing Leviathan 1x13 LoT and Marooned, tonight's LoT. Someone (MG?) really loves him.

He is a Berlanti Universe Alumni/Legacy... I do wonder if he will actually direct an episode I like. So far I have blamed poor writing. But he did give me that touching O/D bromance in chains moments & MM over hot coals, so I'll give him one last chance to win me over :)

[AyChihuahua]

I've never heard about her having issues with that cast or crew other than speaking at cons about on-set pranking being annoying and Kim Manners saying she was terrible at stage combat, which isn't necessarily a reason to fire someone. But to be fair, I also didn't watch real time back then so I'm just going off of what I know about now.  

To some extent, her complaining about on-set pranking being annoying while working on a show in which the two main actors are famous on-set pranksters kind of shows that she's not really getting along with people, and when those "people" are the two main actors in the show, it's kind of a problem. 

[looptab]

The robot is actually just KC haha I've seen her just shut down in the background (not as BC but as Laurel) so many times.

 

I think that particular shot was her, wasn't it?

 

If that's the stuntwoman they need a new stuntwoman. It is completely bizarre.

Her KC? No, I think that one was the double. I've noticed a few times; while KC does stop even pretending to act when she is not saying lines, the double does it as well, when the shot that ends up in the episode is the one with the doubles. It makes sense for her to do it, she's just supposed to do her piece, and should stay motionless if they keep rolling but the focus is not on her - like in that gas chamber shot, she wasn't supposed to be in the frame, I think, or she thought she wasn't.

[spartan]

I'm sorry but until I see an article or confirmed by KC herself that she's leaving Arrow then I'm not gonna believe that laurel is in the grave. No offense to my fellow Laurel Lance fans but I don't want KC on another show, I want her to stay on Arrow where she belongs.

[looptab]

You're not going to see any article or confirmation from her until the episode airs.

[AyChihuahua]

It makes sense for her to do it, she's just supposed to do her piece, and should stay motionless if they keep rolling but the focus is not on her - like in that gas chamber shot, she wasn't supposed to be in the frame, I think, or she thought she wasn't.

For me, whoever's doing it, it doesn't make sense. Living humans don't do that. She could fully stand up, turn around, do something recognizably human without moving out of the shot if they want her to stay more or less where she is. And no one else does it, so I can't totally blame it on Bam (although he certainly isn't helping).

[kismet]

Although in the stunt doubles defense, if she is supposed to mimic what the actor does and KC robotics down in most scenes when she is not the focus, than I really can't blame the stunt double for trying to keep consistency.

 

It's a a poor acting & directing choice, but I think it starts with KC/LLs acting & blocking of scenes, not the stunt doubles.

 

Plus, I think her stunt double has doubled other actresses on the show and I never noticed the robotic motion until she played LL/BC.

[catrox14]

To some extent, her complaining about on-set pranking being annoying while working on a show in which the two main actors are famous on-set pranksters kind of shows that she's not really getting along with people, and when those "people" are the two main actors in the show, it's kind of a problem. 

 

Her complaints were after she left the show AFAIK. 

[wonderwall]

Oscar Baderrama and Emilio Ortega Aldrich wrote 320 & 406 respectively and now twitter people are speculating an Olicity sex scene haha

 

[FurryFury]

I can't read "Buckle up" without getting a huge grin on my face, LMAO. I mean, considering Laurel's nickname on these boards.

Edited March 3, 2016 by FurryFury

[kismet]

And right on schedule for the reunion train  ~ we get a sex scene in episode 20 :)

[Belinea]

Regardless of whether or not one likes Laurel, I'm interested to see how her family deals with the loss. Maybe Sara will be back next season to be around for dad.

And even though Laurel was not ever my favorite, I think I'd have been ok with her moving or ending up on another show. Mainly cause I am anti-death in general...

As for KC, who knows what goes on behind the scenes. I feel like she gets along with EBR really well and the rest were normal work relationships. Didn't SA and DR once say that they tried to get her to break characters and she wasn't amused by them. She probably has a different technique and does her job her way. It's probably like everywhere else. There's the colleague you can work with, the one you hang out with occasionally and the one you tolerate.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Belinea

[Morrigan2575]

Everything I understand about KC leaving SPN was that she wanted more money than they were willing to pay her which could be considered an effective firing.

Nope. KC was fired for pretty much not getting along with the cast. At the time she claimed she asked to be let out to go do Harper's Island. At the time Kripke cited budget cuts as to why she was released. However, KC finally owned up 2 years ago about getting fired from SPN although she never stated the reason.

KC has had a bad reputation that has followed her for years, from SPN to Gossip Girl to Arrow.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[jay741982]

And right on schedule for the reunion train  ~ we get a sex scene in episode 20 :)

Let's hope!

[nksarmi]

I really don't follow the actors of this show much, and what little I've seen of KC has made me want to avoid her interviews a lot.  Her head canon of Oliver and Laurel being soul mates makes me want to puke.  That was the most toxic of relationships, Oliver never respected or truly loved Laurel, and he clearly cared more for her sister than he ever did for her.  The actress playing Laurel should be able to see that and want better for her character because a superhero who is co-dependent on a guy who treats her like crap is not fun.

 

I honestly don't know why KC felt like she needed to pander to the Laurel/Oliver ship.  I think she could have still justified her position as "lead female" by taking a stand that Black Canary would become Green Arrow's equal in every way (of course she also should have demanded a martial arts background to make that believable) but not as his romantic partner - just his partner in justice.  And SHE should have been the one to get a love interest in season three or four - KC should have asked for that if she cared at all about being part of this show. Now maybe she did - but the way she answers questions about Oliver and Laurel makes me think she didn't.

 

And while I have NO idea if she's difficult or not - saying in an interview with the actress playing the lead's love interest that you think your character and the lead character are soul mates but sometimes soul mates don't end up together is somewhere between weird, rude, and clueless.

 

So IF some members of the cast and crew didn't like her - somehow I think it's well earned.

Edited March 3, 2016 by nksarmi

[TwistedandBored]

Nope. KC was fired for pretty much not getting along with the cast. At the time she claimed she asked to be let out to go do Harper's Island. At the time Kripke cited budget cuts as to why she was released. However, KC finally owned up 2 years ago about getting fired from SPN although she never stated the reason.

KC has had a bad reputation that has followed her for years, from SPN to Gossip Girl to Arrow.

 

GG? I didn't know she had a problem there. 

[Carrie Ann]

He is a Berlanti Universe Alumni/Legacy... I do wonder if he will actually direct an episode I like. So far I have blamed poor writing. But he did give me that touching O/D bromance in chains moments & MM over hot coals, so I'll give him one last chance to win me over :)

 

I can't help but root for Ephram, and I think GS has been saddled with two stinker episodes. I had no problems with his direction in 315 (and I agree that the Dig/Oliver scene made up for a lot), but I just don't know where to place the blame for the failures of 415 and I feel like part of it IS on him. Well, him or SA entirely, I guess, because for some reason he underplayed his emotional response for the whole episode. I just feel like a better director would try to coax something more out of him?

 

Anyway, I'll give him another shot, and at the very least, I will say that his directing style is less...obtrusive and distracting than Bamford's, so if I have to choose a novice nepotism candidate, I'll take Gregory Smith.

[dtissagirl]

And SHE should have been the one to get a love interest in season three or four - KC should have asked for that if she cared at all about being part of this show. Now maybe she did - but the way she answers questions about Oliver and Laurel makes me think she didn't.

 

Well, they tried to give Laurel a love interest in S3, but the actor got a better job and left Arrow in a lurch. I mean, they made a little fuzz about Ted Grant at SDCC and everything. They could have recast, or written a different character as Laurel's love interest, but they didn't bother, so it's not like anyone was really invested in using a romantic storyline to propel her story.

[wonderwall]

Well, they tried to give Laurel a love interest in S3, but the actor got a better job and left Arrow in a lurch. I mean, they made a little fuzz about Ted Grant at SDCC and everything. They could have recast, or written a different character as Laurel's love interest, but they didn't bother, so it's not like anyone was really invested in using a romantic storyline to propel her story.

 

I honestly can't believe the network did a chemistry test between the guy who played Ted Grant and KC... The guy who played Ted Grant was terrible and just so bland.

Edited March 3, 2016 by wonderwall

[foreverevolving]

I can't help but root for Ephram, and I think GS has been saddled with two stinker episodes. I had no problems with his direction in 315 (and I agree that the Dig/Oliver scene made up for a lot), but I just don't know where to place the blame for the failures of 415 and I feel like part of it IS on him. Well, him or SA entirely, I guess, because for some reason he underplayed his emotional response for the whole episode. I just feel like a better director would try to coax something more out of him?

 

Anyway, I'll give him another shot, and at the very least, I will say that his directing style is less...obtrusive and distracting than Bamford's, so if I have to choose a novice nepotism candidate, I'll take Gregory Smith.

has he done a lot of directing before Arrow? it's possible he's still learning the ropes..

with that being said you are right he is still far better than Bam-Bam

[statsgirl]

I got the feeling Smith was more interested in the action and bromance scenes (including his bromance with Brandon Routh) than in the other emotional beats of the stories.  I guess I'll find out tonight.

 

He directed 4 episodes of Saving Hope and 5 of Rookie Blue, none of which I remember anything about so he couldn't have been too awful. 

 

 

I honestly can't believe the network did a chemistry test between the guy who played Ted Grant and KC... The guy who played Ted Grant was terrible and just so bland.

He was even worse on Emily Owens MD.  I couldn't believe they hired him to play a love interest here.

Edited March 3, 2016 by statsgirl

[bijoux]

What do you mean his bromance with Routh? Are they friends?

[statsgirl]

I thought they were. I seem to remember Routh being excited that he finally got to work with his friend.

[AyChihuahua]

Guggie's getting in on it. He liked Ben's tweet saying he (Ben) pandered to Lauriver fans, too. Two things I am now convinced of:

 

(1) Laurel is dead and KC is gone; and
(2) They did not like KC.

 

I don't know whether it was personal or due to her limitations/her character's limitations, but the overall effect is that they didn't like her, and they're happy she's gone.

 

Please don't make me eat my hat. How about I name my next foster dog Wonderwall instead?

[Julie335]

Although in the stunt doubles defense, if she is supposed to mimic what the actor does and KC robotics down in most scenes when she is not the focus, than I really can't blame the stunt double for trying to keep consistency.

 

It's a a poor acting & directing choice, but I think it starts with KC/LLs acting & blocking of scenes, not the stunt doubles.

 

Plus, I think her stunt double has doubled other actresses on the show and I never noticed the robotic motion until she played LL/BC.

I remember an interview with KC, where she said she asked her stunt double to mimic more Sara/Canary's movements, because they're sisters and so they're supposed to have some shared movements. I thought to myself, "What? Why do you want your stunt double to move like Sara? Is it because you want it to look like you move like Sara?"

 

If I'm not mistaken, the stunt double for KC is the same one they used for CL. I understand stunt doubles try to mimic the actors they're doubling for. 

[lemotomato]

Please don't make me eat my hat. How about I name my next foster dog Wonderwall instead?

Maybe foreverevolving could make you a cake that looks like a hat?

Edited March 4, 2016 by lemotomato

[dtissagirl]

They burned all of their casting money last season on Routh, and no way they'd make Palmer into Laurel's love interest while trying to convince the audience and the network to give him his own show, so they gave Ted Grant to the terribad rando actor, much like they did with Ra's.

And they needed someone about twice as ~magical~ as finding EBR was, to make a Laurel love interest work miracles.

[nksarmi]

They burned all of their casting money last season on Routh, and no way they'd make Palmer into Laurel's love interest while trying to convince the audience and the network to give him his own show, so they gave Ted Grant to the terribad rando actor, much like they did with Ra's.

And they needed someone about twice as ~magical~ as finding EBR was, to make a Laurel love interest work miracles.

 

LOL, maybe it's because the actor got another job, but it didn't feel like they really tried to make a WildCat / Black Canary thing happen.  If they had - no matter how well it worked - I would have believed they wanted /she wanted her character to succeed.  But it was pretty damn obvious by season two that Laurel needed something to be other than Oliver's love interest and by season three - even a blind man would have been telling KC that Oliver was closer to calling Malcolm his soul mate than Laurel.

 

And let's face it - it wouldn't have taken a lot of time in season three to make a WildCat / BC ship.  What like two minutes of boxing, flirting, training, talking about grabbing a coffee, etc... in a handful of episodes - maybe he could have called suited up and fought with her on the street once or twice, been the one to call her pretty bird, etc...  They could have taken a little time away from Raylicity to make this happen. Heck, they could have just skipped over all the lying to Lance crap and just had Laurel tell her dad the truth about Sara (that was such needless drama that amounted to nothing - even if they wanted Quentin to hate Oliver at the end of the season, that could have been accomplished by Ra's telling Lance that Oliver was protecting Sara's killer).  Anyway, rather or not I liked a WildCat/BC thing wouldn't have mattered.  What matters is/was me believing KC wanted / they wanted to make her a vital part of the show WITHOUT making her Oliver's love interest.

 

Instead it feels like KC was cast to play Oliver's love interest/Black Canary and even when it became obvious that things had changed, everyone moved on except for her and a few fans who either love her or can't get past "because comics."

Edited March 4, 2016 by nksarmi

[grandemocha]

 

Nope. KC was fired for pretty much not getting along with the cast. At the time she claimed she asked to be let out to go do Harper's Island. At the time Kripke cited budget cuts as to why she was released. However, KC finally owned up 2 years ago about getting fired from SPN although she never stated the reason.

 Source? 

[wonderwall]

lol they just gave everything away with that episode description hahaha

 

@AyChihuahua, eat the hat, or be exiled from this board :p 

[dtissagirl]

And let's face it - it wouldn't have taken a lot of time in season three to make a WildCat / BC ship.  What like two minutes of boxing, flirting, training, talking about grabbing a coffee, etc... in a handful of episodes - maybe he could have called her suited up and fought with her on the street once or twice, been the one to call her pretty bird, etc... 

That was the plan EXACTLY,, but the dude got upped to regular on a show that shoots in NYC. Guggenheim mentioned on Tumblr they wanted him recurring, but it fell through.

[Morrigan2575]

Well that makes way more sense than the soec about Cupid kidnapping Felicity and forcing a wedding

[AyChihuahua]

lol they just gave everything away with that episode description hahaha

 

@AyChihuahua, eat the hat, or be exiled from this board :p 

You are no fun at all.

[nksarmi]

That was the plan EXACTLY,, but the dude got upped to regular on a show that shoots in NYC. Guggenheim mentioned on Tumblr they wanted him recurring, but it fell through.

 

Probably should have recast then because at least then some (not all but some) of the "lamest transition into superhero ever" criticisms would have been silenced.  But it doesn't feel like figuring out what to do with Laurel has been their priority for a long time.  I have to believe that if KC was a delight to work with and put her everything into the part and made positive suggestions that something else would have come of all of this for her.  Sometimes you have to spin straw into gold, you know?

 

ETA: Not loving Felicity and Oliver posing as bait thing, but it does make sense since they were planning a wedding anyway.  Still, poor, poor Felicity.

Edited March 4, 2016 by nksarmi

[wonderwall]

Well that makes way more sense than the soec about Cupid kidnapping Felicity and forcing a wedding

Still sounds like a bad episode haha

[Morrigan2575]

lol they just gave everything away with that episode description hahaha

@AyChihuahua, eat the hat, or be exiled from this board :p

Not really they skipped the whole Laurel prosecuting DD stuff

[dtissagirl]

Oliver is gonna passive-aggressively say his real vows to Felicity, isn't he.

[wonderwall]

Not really they skipped the whole Laurel prosecuting DD stuff

Oh yeahhhhhhh I forgot about her :p

Oliver is gonna passive-aggressively say his real vows to Felicity, isn't he.

Ohhh I bet you he's going to be teary eyed and have a sad puppy dog look on his face. 

[Morrigan2575]

Oliver is gonna passive-aggressively say his real vows to Felicity, isn't he.

I'm waiting for the surprise surprise, the fake wedding ends with them really married LOL Edited March 4, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[apinknightmare]

Any chance they're going to pull a Roy 2.0, and someone in HIVE will make it look like DD dies in Iron Heights, but HE SHOWS UP ALIVE DOING EVIL DEEDS AT A LATER DATE?

[foreverevolving]

Maybe foreverevolving could make you a cake that looks like a hat?

 

My name is ForeverEvolving, for 9 days I was stranded in Wedding cake lab with only one goal - survive. Survive and never make decorated cakes again. For those who know me I am cake decorator extraordinaire, but to the rest of the world I am someone else, I am something else.. I Am Foreverevolving chocolatier.

 

 

 

About the episode: I would be fine with it but only if it's Feliciy's idea that they will act as bait.

Wait! is cupid gonna be heartbroken over deadshot being.. dead or Green Arrow not wanting her? and how did she escape Argus?

Edited March 4, 2016 by foreverevolving

[calliope1975]

I'm waiting for the surprise surprise, the fake wedding ends with them really married LOL

 

Wouldn't doubt it with this show. Does the officiant know it's a trap? Is she a secret ninja in disguise? Cuz that doesn't seem cool to involve her in a potentially life threatening incident. I don't really care; I'm just tired and rambling in text form. :/

Edited March 4, 2016 by calliope1975

[wonderwall]

Any chance they're going to pull a Roy 2.0, and someone in HIVE will make it look like DD dies in Iron Heights, but HE SHOWS UP ALIVE DOING EVIL DEEDS AT A LATER DATE?

Noooo. I'm hoping he somehow gets his power back and just murders anyone who gets in his way while escaping prison

[MuuMuuChainsmoker]

Ok, as interesting as the KC behind the scenes Supernatural stuff is (and I have seen similar rumors floating around the internet), please don't get bogged down there.  Even taking into account the relative topic free-for-all this thread is, Supernatural H/R issues are getting pretty far afield. 

[Angel12d]

LMAO so it just had to be Oliver and Felicity posing as a married couple. Had to be! Hahaha. That sounds terrible and funny and I'm totally gonna watch.

[dtissagirl]

I'm waiting for the surprise surprise, the fake wedding ends with them really married LOL

That's way too close to Smallville for my liking, haha.

[Morrigan2575]

That's way too close to Smallville for my liking, haha.

Hack writers, be hacks, yo! :-)

[Angel12d]

No mention of Damien's trial though? Weird.

Also I better get some tears from Oliver as he says his vows. Obviously he's gonna say them because he doesn't think he'll ever get the chance. I'm owed tears from their crappy meh breakup. You owe me, Amell! Tears!