Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Ann Mack]

Seriously shaking my head at the people who justify Oliver lying to Felicity about a SON while asking her to "marry him" is the same as Felicity NOT telling Oliver she was assisting T2Arrow while they were vacationing! Really I just don't follow that logic at all. Yes, a lie is a lie but Felicity's lie IMO is no where near as damaging, painful, stupid, and trust killing as Oliver's lie. MO.

[BkWurm1]

At least Felicity's lie could be justified as letting Oliver not be pressured into returning before he was ready or really needed.  The lie about the kid only happened because BM demanded it.  It kept no one safe or happy since apparently all you had to do was go looking and it was obvious.  Even BM framed her demand as punishment. 

[tarotx]

Even if the lies were "even", This isn't Oliver's first Rodeo. So even "equal" on the surface wouldn't actually be equal cause Oliver has a book length record of lies and secret keeping.  

[bijoux]

In other news, no one had a brush in with death this episode.

[jay741982]

Seriously shaking my head at the people who justify Oliver lying to Felicity about a SON while asking her to "marry him" is the same as Felicity NOT telling Oliver she was assisting T2Arrow while they were vacationing! Really I just don't follow that logic at all. Yes, a lie is a lie but Felicity's lie IMO is no where near as damaging, painful, stupid, and trust killing as Oliver's lie. MO.

Translation: those geniuses don't like Felicity and will never See Oliver as the jackass he is. Like its okay if him and Barry cry but Felicity does it twice and she's too whiny SMH

[looptab]

Do you think Donna could find out about the Team at some point this season? Because Charlotte's last interviews had a lot references to Donna worrying about the danger Felicity is in,and of course that could just be her headcanon, but it made me wonder if she doesn't find out in 417. 

[Velocity23]

[bijoux]

If she does, there will be maybe five people in Star City who don't know who they are. I mean, Curtis is working with Oliver and Dig and/or Lance, maybe at the lair? I know there was something, but I can't remember what specifically. And he just said he's bad at keeping secrets this episode. He may not be the one in that grave, but he kind of put himself in danger there.

[Sunshine]

Based on 4.14 and the promo for 4.15 Felicity probably breaks it off because Malcolm and Thea (his "family") knew but he kept it from her. I will be surprised if Dhark doesn't tell Oliver where he got his info from. Once again not killing Malcolm comes home to roost. Another reason for Malcolm to be the "him" in the flash forward.

[Lady Calypso]

In other news, no one had a brush in with death this episode.

 

What are you talking about? Laurel faced death TWICE this episode. TWICE! 

 

No, but in all seriousness, I bet this was Laurel's 'Final Destination' situation, with her almost being crushed by a collapsing building, and almost being Final Desintation 3'd with the nails.

[tarotx]

If you aren't in the hospital or at death's door in the Lair it doesn't count. Thea, Diggle, Laurel and Lance had very close calls this episode. 

[Velocity23]

Nah she wasnt tended to. Like Lance or Diggle.

[Chaser]

I couldn't make out some of the lines in the trailer. Is Laurel bringing in Vixen? She knows about Vixen? I kind of assumed since it was S3, Laurel wasn't told about her.

 

Thea almost fell to her death.

Laurel almost got a nail in her forehead.

Diggle got electrocuted.

Lance almost had a building fall on him.

 

Lots of close calls, but no one was knocking on heaven's door.

[bijoux]

I couldn't make out some of the lines in the trailer. Is Laurel bringing in Vixen? She knows about Vixen? I kind of assumed since it was S3, Laurel wasn't told about her.

 

It sounded like Laurel to me as well. Which is weird since Oliver is the one who knows Vixen (and maybe Felicity?), but then again, that's nothing new.

[tv echo]

-- 415 synopsis: "VIXEN JOINS TEAM ARROW – Oliver (Stephen Amell) realizes he needs help battling Darhk (guest star Neal McDonough) so he calls in an old friend – Vixen (guest star Megalyn E.K.). Using her magical ability to summon animal powers, Vixen gets a lock on Darhk’s location and the team goes to war. Meanwhile, Thea (Willa Holland) has a heart-to-heart talk with Malcolm (John Barrowman). Gregory Smith directed the episode with story by Marc Guggenheim and teleplay by Keto Shimizu & Brian Ford Sullivan (#415). Original airdate 2/24/16." (ComicBookResources article, page 30 of Spoilers thread)

 

Vixen is supposed to be Oliver's friend, so I don't understand the woman's voice at all.

[tarotx]

Laurel is probably Telling Thea or someone. Vixen will just show up or Oliver or Felicity will say I will Call Vixen for tracking help. (Oliver remembers people or things only last minute). Then the next scene we will have Laurel catching the audience and Thea or Diggle up. 

[Password]

Hahahaha hahahaha Oliver realises NOW he needs help with Darhk.

Hahahaha hahahaha. Oh boy.

[lemotomato]

Vixen is supposed to be Oliver's friend, so I don't understand the woman's voice at all.

The only woman's voice that would make sense would be Felicity's. She was on comms when Oliver and Barry worked with Vixen in the cartoon.

[bijoux]

Hahahaha hahahaha Oliver realises NOW he needs help with Darhk.

Hahahaha hahahaha. Oh boy.

 

So he's actually ahead of the curve in regards to how long it took him to start feeling guilty about lying to Felicity?

[Morrigan2575]

The only woman's voice that would make sense would be Felicity's. She was on comms when Oliver and Barry worked with Vixen in the cartoon.

Yeah but it wasn't Felicity.  In the promo Felicity says something like "we need a new strategy".  The line explaining that Vixen is a hero from Detroit belongs to Laurel. I have no idea why she would be explaining it to anyone because the only two people that know Vixen (in Arrow) would be Oliver and Felicity.  However, it's possible that Laurel is explaining to someone else who Vixen is after she shows up.  Or it's possible that, like with Flash 1.19 they're going to pretend that Laurel is in the know because it's easier for a narrative purpose

[Lady Calypso]

If you aren't in the hospital or at death's door in the Lair it doesn't count. Thea, Diggle, Laurel and Lance had very close calls this episode. 

 

 

Nah she wasnt tended to. Like Lance or Diggle.

 

I'm definitely not saying that you guys are wrong. Actually, I'm sure you're right. It's just that I'll bet this if this FD stuff is actually what they're going for, they MIGHT use these scenarios for Laurel as possible FD situations that she encounters and why she may not be in the grave. At least, the nail scene might count. It's stupid and I don't agree, but I can see MG using this as 'proof'. 

[Velocity23]

So Katie, Willa and Stephen were filming something for mayoral campaign yesterday

They also filmed a coffee shop scene with Paul and Katie

 

https://twitter.com/Diva_Jong/status/700360548865560576

https://twitter.com/Diva_Jong/status/700150799846940672

[Chaser]

LOL - this seems like a Laurel heavy episode and I'm actually happy about it.

[lemotomato]

Yeah but it wasn't Felicity.  In the promo Felicity says something like "we need a new strategy".  The line explaining that Vixen is a hero from Detroit belongs to Laurel. I have no idea why she would be explaining it to anyone because the only two people that know Vixen (in Arrow) would be Oliver and Felicity.  However, it's possible that Laurel is explaining to someone else who Vixen is after she shows up.  Or it's possible that, like with Flash 1.19 they're going to pretend that Laurel is in the know because it's easier for a narrative purpose

Or they're just giving the introduction to Laurel for the sake of giving her more lines, just like other instances this season when they've inexplicably had her give technical suggestions to Felicity and had her be Oliver's sounding board. 

[nksarmi]

How long is the break between next week and episode 16?  I know it makes sense to put the break up there, but pacing-wise it just doesn't feel like it's going to happen.  I mean they are in too strong of a place and Felicity was just talking about how sometimes lies are forgivable.  I never thought Felicity's actions in the first timeline made sense and I don't really see her dumping him at the end of an episode where he has just gotten his son back.  Putting off the wedding a bit?  Maybe.  But an all out break up?  Not really.

 

Oh and there is no way Felicity won't come out looking bad to the general audience if she breaks up with him at the end of an episode where they all came together to find William (and Samantha?).  I just don't see it. 

 

I'm starting to wonder if they are going to split at all.  They could go through a rough patch without fully breaking up.  And given the wedding spoilers for episode 16 (right?) well that could be a rehearsal that goes very badly because of Cupid.  That could then cause them to delay the wedding?

Edited February 18, 2016 by nksarmi

[Midnight Lullaby]

How long is the break between next week and episode 16? I know it makes sense to put the break up there, but pacing-wise it just doesn't feel like it's going to happen. I mean they are in too strong of a place and Felicity was just talking about how sometimes lies are forgivable. I never thought Felicity's actions in the first timeline made sense and I don't really see her dumping him at the end of an episode where he has just gotten his son back. Putting off the wedding a bit? Maybe. But an all out break up? Not really.

I wonder if the break up will happen off-screen during the hiatus?

Two weeks hiatus.

I find completely reasonable breaking up with someone who lied and went behind your back for months and would have married you and made you a step mom without your knowledge. Oliver was going to marry her and have a second family in CC. That's gross.

I can see Felicity sympathizing with his reasons (even if I, using common sense, can't) because the writers have to justify themselves but to stay with someone who broke your trust like that? And didn't trust you? I don't think it's the type of relationship Felicity wants for herself. It seems to me she has a healthy dose of self respect and isn't afraid to react when she feels betrayed. (Like with her dad.)

Edited February 18, 2016 by Midnight Lullaby

[Morrigan2575]

Three weeks hiatus.

 

3?  Last year it was 2.  315 aired on 2/25 and 316 aired on 3/18.  I've been assuming the same schedule for S4.  415 airs on 2/24 and 4/16 would air on 3/16.  Has CW set their schedule for return dates post February Sweeps?  I didn't see it on spoilertv but maybe another site has it?

Edited February 18, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[wonderwall]

More Laurel heavy episodes from episodes 18-22 bode well for me. If she has more scenes w/ Oliver and Quentin towards the end of the season, then that means they're building up her death so the audience will be able to understand why Oliver would kill Malcolm for killing Laurel.

 

COME ON SHOWWWW.

[Midnight Lullaby]

3? Last year it was 2. 315 aired on 2/25 and 316 aired on 3/18. I've been assuming the same schedule for S4. 415 airs on 2/24 and 4/16 would air on 3/16. Has CW set their schedule for return dates post February Sweeps? I didn't see it on spoilertv but maybe another site has it?

Sorry, two! I don't even know why I wrote three. :/ My bad.

4x16 on March the 16th.

I corrected the original post.

Edited February 18, 2016 by Midnight Lullaby

[ComicFan777]

What this show has clearly shown is that Felicity is strong enough and smart enough to walk away from a bad situation - in this case a guy who has repeatedly lied to her face for months.  Oliver has broken her trust.  She can forgive him because of her good heart, but she will find it very hard to  trust him with her heart.  Both Donna and Felicity see love and trust coming hand in hand - Oliver and Felicity cannot be together until he earns her trust back again.  She has enough self-respect to know that she deserves someone that she can wholly trust.  I'm pretty sure she is going to breakup with him.

Edited February 18, 2016 by ComicFan777

[Belinea]

More Laurel heavy episodes from episodes 18-22 bode well for me. If she has more scenes w/ Oliver and Quentin towards the end of the season, then that means they're building up her death so the audience will be able to understand why Oliver would kill Malcolm for killing Laurel.

 

COME ON SHOWWWW.

 

Or maybe they are finally get back to their dream combination: GA+BC with Speedy on the side. What could be more interesting? Probably a lot.

[wonderwall]

Or maybe they are finally get back to their dream combination: GA+BC with Speedy on the side. What could be more interesting? Probably a lot.

YOU SHUT YOUR MOUTH RIGHT NOW. 

[Morrigan2575]

More Laurel heavy episodes from episodes 18-22 bode well for me. If she has more scenes w/ Oliver and Quentin towards the end of the season, then that means they're building up her death so the audience will be able to understand why Oliver would kill Malcolm for killing Laurel.

 

COME ON SHOWWWW.

Where did this come from?  I haven't heard anything about Laurel heavy episodes from 18-22.  The only thing I know is that Lawyer Laurel is doing something lawyer-ish in 416 which probably involves HIVE or Darhk.  

 

418 maybe Lance or Laurel heavy but we're not sure.  All we know is that there is a Lance flashback in 418.

[apinknightmare]

Where did this come from? I haven't heard anything about Laurel heavy episodes from 18-22. The only thing I know is that Lawyer Laurel is doing something lawyer-ish in 416 which probably involves HIVE or Darhk.

418 maybe Lance or Laurel heavy but we're not sure. All we know is that there is a Lance flashback in 418.

There were tweets posted (in this thread, maybe?) about Laurel filming something campaign-related, and then another about Laurel and Lance having coffee together in 4x18. Edited February 18, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Chaser]

YOU SHUT YOUR MOUTH RIGHT NOW. 

I got your back.

 

It's Laurel's last episode. They are throwing a bone to her fans as a last hurrah. 

 

Here is something else for you. KC goes a bit social media silent when she isn't happy right? She does a lot of like sprees after an episode. All about how fantastic BC/LL are (even if she has minimal screen time). In the past two episodes, she has liked three tweets. Three. And all the tweets had a professional connection. KL/Arrow writers/JB. It's a little weak sauce, but it's interesting.

[Morrigan2575]

There were tweets posted (in this thread, maybe?) about Laurel filming something campaign-related, and then another about Laurel and Lance having coffee together in 4x18.

Oh, thank you.  I'll go look for them

[apinknightmare]

Oh, thank you. I'll go look for them

They're actually just a few posts up in this thread. :)

Edited February 18, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Morrigan2575]

They're actually just a few posts up in this thread. :)

OMG I am BLIND.  I just looked back 2 pages in this thread, the spoiler only thread and the social media thread....how did i miss them right above me?  LOL

[wonderwall]

I got your back.

 

It's Laurel's last episode. They are throwing a bone to her fans as a last hurrah. 

 

Here is something else for you. KC goes a bit social media silent when she isn't happy right? She does a lot of like sprees after an episode. All about how fantastic BC/LL are (even if she has minimal screen time). In the past two episodes, she has liked three tweets. Three. And all the tweets had a professional connection. KL/Arrow writers/JB. It's a little weak sauce, but it's interesting.

 

I love you. You can sit next to me in heaven. A place Laurel probably won't be able to enter for resurrecting her sister and letting her attack other people :')

Edited February 18, 2016 by wonderwall

[Belinea]

YOU SHUT YOUR MOUTH RIGHT NOW. 

I will try to stop being pessimistic ;) But the show doesn't make it easy.... But I will try to follow your lead and hope that the right person will be going to a different place.

[wonderwall]

I will try to stop being pessimistic ;) But the show doesn't make it easy.... But I will try to follow your lead and hope that the right person will be going to a different place.

I'm just joking :) In all honesty, being pessimistic will protect you in the long run!

[Belinea]

I'm just joking :) In all honesty, being pessimistic will protect you in the long run!

I know... :-)  I am just being somewhat more pessimistic than last year because this year I just don't see any logic to most of the storylines. Last year you could tell the underlying notion was for Oliver to find out who he is (regardless of how good or bad they went about it) This year some parts move really slow, while others are just plain stupid but I don't see what the big picture is supposed to be. Is Oliver supposed to learn that it is not ok to lie? Because Thea now thinks it is cool and probably everyone apart from Felicity will be cool with it as well. 

Is the point of the Felicity in a wheelchair storyline not to be hers but rather Curtis's way in? And as always my biggest fear is them going completely down the 'We love the masks' line. I never see the appeal. I am one of the people who doesn't enjoy that chemistry. 

I just hope that the last few episodes of this season are somewhat better than the episodes we are about to get. Oliver's kid will probably disappear into offscreenville again, rarely to be seen again. 

I am just not seeing the appeal to tune back in for Laurel in court, Malcolm knowing everything because plot, death of someone and Felicity being shipped to Palmer islands for the time being. Sometimes it feels as though they are still trying to make what never worked before work (again). Like an annoyed toddler who doesn't get his/her way. 

[ComicFan777]

I get the impression in putting Thea as giving the "ok to keep a secret" speech is that the writers are trying to get the audience to think: hey, Felicity should be ok with Oliver keeping a secret and lying because Oliver's family is ok with the secret.  Hello, we are not that stupid, writers. 

 

I wish that the Queens could see that blood family is not everything.  Other people love them, so don't be stupid. 

Chosen family is just as important.

Edited February 18, 2016 by ComicFan777

[AyChihuahua]

As someone said in another thread, they could actually go really hurtful with the whole family thing, in that Oliver was okay, more or less, with Thea, MALCOLM EFFING MERLYN, and Baby Mama all being in on it. I.e., family. I.e., NOT Felicity. That could be why they went with Thea being in on the lie and okay with it. She's Oliver's real family, and Felicity is not.

 

On the bad side, JFC do the writers hate Felicity and want to make her feel like a maggot? On the good side, the other non-fam members could/should be on her side (plus, obvy, her own blood family). So Digg, Laurel, Donna, Quentin, Lyla, and Curtis could still all be on her side, while the horrible Queen/Merlyn/hagbag Claytons are on the other side.

 

Tbc, I don't think this would really be conscious on Oliver's part, but dude does seem to have a really weird "blooooooooooood [crooned in Dracula voice]" thing going on.

[Belinea]

As someone said in another thread, they could actually go really hurtful with the whole family thing, in that Oliver was okay, more or less, with Thea, MALCOLM EFFING MERLYN, and Baby Mama all being in on it. I.e., family. I.e., NOT Felicity. That could be why they went with Thea being in on the lie and okay with it. She's Oliver's real family, and Felicity is not.

That actually seems like something plausibel. Most of the time Oliver is just stupid like that. He so doesn't deserve Diggle and Felicity to consider him family then.

But watch them forget about Thea's 'lying is ok for family' stance once they again do a storyline where something is kept from her and she throws a fit. 

[ComicFan777]

I vote for this season's lesson for Oliver is: chosen family is just as important as blood family, so don't lie to them and for him to actually learn this lesson and never falter on it again next year.  It's not Queens against the world.  Team Arrow always has their back, even when they are being stupid.

[DeadZeus]

Next trailer Oliver says to DD "you don't know who u are messing with". But I bet Oliver will get his ass kicked again anyway lol

[bijoux]

So Katie, Willa and Stephen were filming something for mayoral campaign yesterday

They also filmed a coffee shop scene with Paul and Katie

 

https://twitter.com/Diva_Jong/status/700360548865560576

https://twitter.com/Diva_Jong/status/700150799846940672

 

She also posted some pics with the cast. I don't know why, but I find it weird to see Oliver (I'm assuming it's the character, not SA) with a backpack. Maybe he's homeless after the break up. I kid. 

 

The scene with the Lances is present day. No wig for PB.

[wonderwall]

I'm not finding much to look forward to in the coming weeks, but the possibility of Laurel being in the grave is fun. Confetti! It's a Parade! Fun.

EXACTLY. I mean for me, I'll forgive all the stupid if they kill Laurel lol 

[Lady Calypso]

Well, even with all these spoilers, I STILL think it'll be Quentin, but there's also a small chance it'll be Laurel. They won't kill Diggle, and they can't kill any supporting characters if they want to follow through with their promise at the beginning of the season to have a death that'll stick and mean something. So it's really between Quentin and Laurel, but evidence for Laurel is piling up.