Spoiler Discussion Thread

[spartan]

diggle or samantha in the grave;I think LL will have two FF, ONE IN EPISODE 18, and another on 20-22

[Velocity23]

Why would she have two FF? My bet is no FF with LL.  Not sure they doing anymore FFs. She definetely wont be having flashbacks for more then 1 episode.

 

and i must laugh when people are saying Samanta or any of the guest stars is in the grave. Its someone who is with the show since s1. Meaning Diggle, Laurel or Quentin. Thea was eliminate (IMO) in the last episode.

[spartan]

Why would she have two FF? My bet is no FF with LL.  Not sure they doing anymore FFs. She definetely wont be having flashbacks for more then 1 episode.

 

and i must laugh when people are saying Samanta or any of the guest stars is in the grave. Its someone who is with the show since s1. Meaning Diggle, Laurel or Quentin. Thea was eliminate (IMO) in the last episode.

who said that the person in the grave must be someone who is there since season 1?

[Chaser]

Lance being in a flashback in what is quite possibly the death episode, limits the grave occupant to a Lance IMO.

It could work for either one.

[Morrigan2575]

How do we know they are filming Lance flashbacks? I think i missed something.

ETA found the picture in social media

Edited February 13, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[Belinea]

How do we know they are filming Lance flashbacks? I think i missed something

PB posted a pic of himself with flashback hair.

[Guest]

Flashback Lance. Pretty obvious it's Quentin in the grave. Yawn. Call me when this show actually becomes game changing and surprising for once.

[Velocity23]

LOL so  Marc said Laurel is getting a flashback and that now means Lance is in the grave?

[Chaser]

A Laurel flashback could mean she is having a flashback (she dies) or it could mean Quentin is having them of Laurel (he dies).

[Guest]

LOL so  Marc said Laurel is getting a flashback and that now means Lance is in the grave?

 

Is it actually Laurel's flashbacks though? Because she's been part of the flashbacks before but they weren't 'hers' specifically. I'd say it just means she's in the flashbacks and we'll see her relationship with Quentin. 

[apinknightmare]

I guess they might be doing a repeat of Seeing Red, where there's Laurel/Lance flashbacks throughout the ep and he (or she, but LBR he) bites it at the end. Fingers crossed they veer away from the subject matter, and that Lance doesn't have some secret kid that pops out of the woodwork after his untimely demise. 

[Chaser]

I could see is both ways and it's super frustrating. I am expecting that wig to make a return next episode becuase I can see the Lance left standing having flashbacks.

[Guest]

I really would love it to be Laurel in the grave. But they're totally gonna use Quentin's death to motivate her because she needs that apparently. Personally I would like to see Quentin go off the deep end after losing another daughter but we don't always get what we want. LOL.

 

Not really looking forward to an increase in Lance family scenes but it is what it is at this point. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[looptab]

If Diggle dies saving Laurel, I don't know if any of us could handle that. She's already spread her death curse on Tommy and Sara. And since Quentin did say the magic words to activate it last season, it just might have taken longer to actually happen.

Let's hope Diggle never utters those words.

 

I could see is both ways and it's super frustrating. I am expecting that wig to make a return next episode becuase I can see the Lance left standing having flashbacks.

Wait, so you think we'd have lance flashbacks in 18 and 19?

[tv echo]

Remember, MG's Billy Joel song pick for 418 was "Famous Last Words." (MG tumblr post, page 31 of Spoilers thread)

 

We have spoilers that Donna will be in 417, but no spoilers yet (that I know of) that definitely put Donna in 418.

Edited February 13, 2016 by tv echo

[GirlvsTV]

But what would Quentin's death motivate her to do? She's already in a mask. Revenge? Except the death as it is being set up on the show so far seems to be more about giving OLIVER a catalyst to finally defeat the Bad Guy, not LL.

Also, if yet another person has to 'die' to give us a storyline for LL that is some truly god-awful lazy writing. I mean that would be Oliver (twice!), Tommy, Sara (twice!) and now Quentin.

However, my dream scenario is Quentin dies and it motivates LL to go far far away from Star City never to be seen again.

[dtissagirl]

Remember, MG's Billy Joel song pick for 418 was "Famous Last Words." (MG tumblr post, page 31 of Spoilers thread)

"Dinah Laurel Lance, always trying to save the world."

Flashback Lance is gonna say the cursed words, then present time Lance will repeat them because that's this season schtick with the platitude line of the week being repeated several times over, then he'll die saving Laurel's life. Double whammy!

Edited February 13, 2016 by dtissagirl

[Chaser]

Motivation for Laurel. But does Laurel want to be a Police Captain? I kid. Mostly.

 

I don't think they would use Lance's death for Laurel. She is already were they want her to be - a fully formed SuperSuperHero. They haven't connected Malcolm and Lance this season. I think they have had one interaction thus far this season. So I don't think Lance would die for Laurel, but I think its likely they would use Laurel to kill Lance. Malcolm and Laurel have interacted a lot and Laurel knows Malcolm's part in everything. Malcolm goes after Laurel or Laurel goes after Malcolm and Lance is dead in the crossfire. 

 

Or, Lance finds out Malcolm killed Sara and he goes after Malcolm on his own. He dies. Or Laurel dies saving his life.

 

Seriously, they have made the Lances so interchangeable. 

 

Let's hope Diggle never utters those words.

 

Wait, so you think we'd have lance flashbacks in 18 and 19?

I think the Lance who dies in 4x18 will have flashbacks and the Lance who lives will have them in a later episode. It is a way to get some cheap emotions and keeps the grave occupant on the set a little longer.

[Guest]

Have we had any spoilers on Andy and how he's gonna play a part in the HIVE stuff? Because I can't believe that he's really 'better' as Oliver put it and this is all behind them. 

[looptab]

I think the Lance who dies in 4x18 will have flashbacks and the Lance who lives will have them in a later episode. It is a way to get some cheap emotions and keeps the grave occupant on the set a little longer.

Could be. But, two Lances' fb? What have we done wrong?

 

ETA: A fan asked SA on FB: "Of the episodes you have filmed so far, starting with 414, do you have a favorite and which one was the most challenging for you?" To which he answered, "415 is really something". Shut up, Stephen. 

Edited February 13, 2016 by looptab

[Chaser]

Have we had any spoilers on Andy and how he's gonna play a part in the HIVE stuff? Because I can't believe that he's really 'better' as Oliver put it and this is all behind them. 

DD is tied to HIVE but we really haven't seen much of them.

 

I would prefer that they finish Malcolm off this season and set HIVE up as the S5 Big Bad. Bring in Andy as recurring. Bring back Papa Smoak as a reluctant connection to the criminal world. I would love if it turned out that HIVE hired Papa Smoak to attack the city mainframe due to reasons. 

Edited February 13, 2016 by Chaser

[tv echo]

I don't think the Andy Diggle story is completely finished yet.  Here's some quotes (but I'm not sure how much of what's said was about 411):

-- WM: "Dig and Andy are going to have some ups and downs. There’s going to be a big wallop of a surprise coming toward the end of the season. We wanted to give Dig his own journey and give the viewers the opportunity to really see his family and dig into more of his backstory, and we are going to deliver on that. There’s going to be a lot more of Andy coming up." (TVLine articles, pages 28 and 29 of Spoilers thread)

-- On Diggle and Andy's biggest challenge moving forward, DR: "I think that's the goal. H.I.V.E. has something planned and Diggle's approach has been to reach the Andy that he loved -- the human. He's tried to dig through the dirt of Oliver to get to the heart, and it's the same thing he's trying to do with Andy. Hopefully they can make that repair before H.I.V.E. and Damien Darhk does what they plan to do with the city, but there's a lot of story left. When I read the script for this episode, I thought Andy was going to be a H.I.V.E., brainwashed Damien Darhk stooge, but he ends up having a lot of colors that Diggle doesn't know about and it ends up being a much richer story. I don't know exactly where they're taking Andy. He hasn't approached his wife yet, his child; there's a lot of story left to tell with Andy." (ETonline article, page 30 of Spoilers thread)

Edited February 13, 2016 by tv echo

[Guest]

I know DD is tied to HIVE but I wondered if there's gonna be more to do with Andy. Right now there doesn't seem to be much urgency with the HIVE/Diggle side of things.

 

And because they've implied that HIVE is mysteriously more than DD, I do wonder if it'll be an ongoing thing like the League was. So maybe the twist is that HIVE isn't the big bad they need to deal with this season but Malcolm is and s5 will be about bringing HIVE down for good.

Edited February 13, 2016 by Guest

[bijoux]

ETA: A fan asked SA on FB: "Of the episodes you have filmed so far, starting with 414, do you have a favorite and which one was the most challenging for you?" To which he answered, "415 is really something". Shut up, Stephen. 

 

I'm counting on the likely break up to be super emotional so I can see how he would look forward to that. And he wanted to play dad, it seems likely with Samantha at SC PD that we'll also see the kid. Meaning he'll actually get to act in a dad like capacity. Not saying I'm looking forward to it, but I can see why he would find it appealing.

[looptab]

Am I the only one who found that Kleenex exchange getting grosser the longer it went on?:/

 

I'm counting on the likely break up to be super emotional so I can see how he would look forward to that. And he wanted to play dad, it seems likely with Samantha at SC PD that we'll also see the kid. Meaning he'll actually get to act in a dad like capacity. Not saying I'm looking forward to it, but I can see why he would find it appealing.

Yeah, I think that, too. Still..Shut up, though! :)

Edited February 13, 2016 by looptab

[bijoux]

Am I the only one who found that Kleenex exchange getting grosser the longer it went on?:/

 

What Kleenex exchange?

[looptab]

What Kleenex exchange?

Bamford's tweets in Spoilers Only.

[lemotomato]

Am I the only one who found that Kleenex exchange getting grosser the longer it went on?:/

I thought so too :P

 

I also think anyone hoping for an Olicity sex scene at this point (414) is going to be bitterly disappointed. This is the time in the season for the temporary relationship to start (Oliver/Sara, Felicity/Ray), so I'm guessing that Oliver and Poppy are going to get it on in the next couple episodes.

[bijoux]

Maybe Bamford meant we'll be crying from laughter at Oliver and Poppy.

[Guest]

Is anyone even bothered about #Poppy and Oliver in flashbacks though? It's in the past, it doesn't even matter. And most people barely pay any attention to them anyway haha. 

 

The break-up is gonna hurt though.

Edited February 13, 2016 by Guest

[Chaser]

Tweet from a fan at Dallas Con after her autograph session with SA:

 

 

LOL

 

- #Poppy and Oliver sex

- Public humiliation of Felicity at the debate with the child reveal

- Olicity break-up

- or Oliver randomly hooks with baby mama, they throw them into some super contrived situation that has Oliver pick the kid and baby mama over Felicity, they couldn't stop KC/Laurel from jumping him.

 

All the possibilities!

[bijoux]

LOL

 

- #Poppy and Oliver sex

- Public humiliation of Felicity at the debate with the child reveal

- Olicity break-up

- or Oliver randomly hooks with baby mama, they throw them into some super contrived situation that has Oliver pick the kid and baby mama over Felicity, they couldn't stop KC/Laurel from jumping him.

 

All the possibilities!

 

SA seems pumped for 4x15. While we may not be, this does not really gel with the things he's historically shown a preference for.

[catrox14]

In my head, I justify that it can't be Diggle in the grave because he just got his codename this season and they are still trying to fix the look of his helmet.  Guggenheim said that they had to work with DC to make Spartan be his official name in the DC universe.  It just seems like a lot of work to end it this season, so that's my justification in my head anyways even if it isn't really a good reason. 

 

 

 

I've called it being Diggle or Felicity way back. But we now know it's not Felicity unless the whole thing is a fake out and the real death is later one. But MG says no.

 

Felicity's anger and sadness and determination in the car with Oliver all reflect IMO the kind of restrained rage given for someone who means the world to her.  IMO Diggle and Oliver are the people that would provoke that kind of reaction and we know it's not Oliver. Oliver would spare the One Perfect Tear for Diggle. That's why Felicity asked if he's okay because she knows that Diggle's death was probably because Diggle was trying to do something heroic and it's not Oliver's fault. But he has a responsibility to set it right. 

 

I thought it was interesting that Malcolm told Darkh that the person who meant the most to Oliver is William. But that, is ,just like his opinion, man.  I think that's a misdirect. For Malcolm, he thinks that's the trump card on taking down Oliver. And it will be but not because the show would actually kill a child. Tatsu son died by virus not by being stabbed or shot or something else. William is leverage. He'll be kidnapped probably.

 

IMO Diggle will die being a big goddamned hero because he's going to try to rescue William.

 

Diggle has reunited with his brother. He's happy with his wife and has a baby. What better more horrible time to kill off a beloved character than to heal his wounds and then kill him. It will destroy Oliver and Felicity.

 

As to the Spartan name and the helmet being an investment and why would they do it just to kill Diggle. Spartan becomes the new Spartacus as in I AM SPARTAN..no...I AM SPARTAN. I hate to say it but it is kind of hard to see exactly who is under that helmet. That name and helmet can be worn by anyone...maybe Andy puts it on to honor Diggle.

Edited February 13, 2016 by catrox14

[Chaser]

SA seems pumped for 4x15. While we may not be, this does not really gel with the things he's historically shown a preference for.

The last bullet point was more of a joke.

 

I would bet money it's option 2.

 

I need someone to ask SA why they felt fans would enjoy a storyline that requires Felicity to have her heart ripped out and be stabbed in the back, all while dealing with the recent lose of her legs and the betrayal of her father.  

[Morrigan2575]

Pretty sure SA knows it's a shit story

[catrox14]

Also, I want to be wrong about Diggle. As wrong as I can be.  But I don't think I am :(. 

[Belinea]

I wonder how they get back from this storyline....Because let's be honest if you taint it in such a big manner you either leave it in the past or it really serves a whole other point altogether. 

 

And I really don't care much for the notion that just because SA loves being a dad that Oliver needs to be one as well. I know he didn't say that or anything but that is what I get from this. He was on board for this because he himself loves his kid so much. 

[Guest]

I think SA is probably excited about 415 because he'll get to be Daddy Oliver to William. I bet there will be some kind of family hug once he's found safe and sound. Meanwhile, Felicity will look on at a loss. It's all so predictable.

Edited February 13, 2016 by Guest

[jay741982]

If Dig dies I'm gonna be so fucked pissed. And if he dies I hope Oliver AND Felicity murder the shit out of who killed him. Then I will think hard about watching Full Episodes of Arrow. Arrow with Both lances alive and Dig Dead doesn't sound good and it would increase my fear that they would kill off Felicity cause they were dumb enough to kill Diggle

I think SA is probably excited about 415 because he'll get to be Daddy Oliver to William. I bet there will be some kind of family hug once he's found safe and sound. Meanwhile, Felicity will look on at a loss. It's all so predictable.

I still hate how this is happening to Felicity after everything she's been through. Let's shoot her a few times and paralyze her. Oh, and then we'll bring back her dad but nothing good will come from it because he's a worthless piece of shit. But we're not quite finished kicking her when she's down so let's have her find out through someone else that Oliver has been lying to her for weeks and she'll break up with him.

Poor Felicity.

Yep I'll say it again it pisses me off that she gets paralyzed possibly permantley and the masks get no life altering injuries not counting the near death experiences. I'm getting so sick of Felicity getting beat down. Laurel never had it like Felicity is getting this season

Pretty sure SA knows it's a shit story

If he's apoligzing to fans yes he knows how much it is shit lol

Edited February 13, 2016 by jay741982

[tarotx]

They are not going to get rid of David Ramsey (unless it was an actors decision and we know it wasn't). I refuse to even think about it. Though if they faught for Spartan-that's a bit Scary because the Spartan DC owns is a Robot version of the hero Yohn Kohl/John Colt. Though I refused to believe they are killing John Diggle. He is Oliver's only male friend on the show. The actor that plays Andy is no David Ramsey and neither is the the Actor that plays Curtis. Neither of those characters hang out with Oliver enough to be a friend to Oliver. And no one has come close to the sexiness of John Diggle. 

Edited February 13, 2016 by tarotx

[Primal Slayer]

If Dig dies I'm gonna be so fucked pissed. And if he dies I hope Oliver AND Felicity murder the shit out of who killed him. Then I will think hard about watching Full Episodes of Arrow. Arrow with Both lances alive and Dig Dead doesn't sound good and it would increase my fear that they would kill off Felicity cause they were dumb enough to kill Diggle

Yep I'll say it again it pisses me off that she gets paralyzed possibly permantley and the masks get no life altering injuries not counting the near death experiences. I'm getting so sick of Felicity getting beat down. Laurel never had it like Felicity is getting this season

If he's apoligzing to fans yes he knows how much it is shit lol

While getting paralyzed and becoming a pill popping drunk aren't the same. I would say Laurel had it plenty bad during s2 while she was spiraling down. She had to spend almost half a season dealing with it before even being able to pick her life up. It is a bittersweet thing that Felicity doesn't have to spend half a season spiraling but instead is able to take control of what happened her and still able to be happy go lucky.

[catrox14]

Why wouldn't they kill off Oliver's only best male friend? They killed off Tommy.

 

I'm thinking this might be a coming full circle  next season with returning Malcolm to evil Dark Archer , Oliver's greatest nemesis.

 

The only other person that has ever challenged Malcolm to his face and could actually back it up with force is Diggle.  They were in each other's faces last season. I doubt Malcolm has forgotten that.  Dude has a long ass memory as we've seen.

 

I'm looking at this from Malcolm's motives. He is unhinged now. He was betrayed by his pretend son (in Malcolm's mind anyway). He has lost his power as Ra's Al Ghul, he's literally lost his hand by his not!son!.  Malcolm gave over the info to Darkh about William which is all about destroying Oliver's support systems. He thought he took Felicity far enough out of the game, but Diggle would be just as bad. Oliver would be lost without Diggle at this point.

 

Hell it might even be that in Malcolm's warped mind, it would force Oliver back to Malcolm for any help with William.  IMO this is brings it back to being about family and vengeance now on top of the twisted motivations of tearing down the city that killed his wife.  

Edited February 13, 2016 by catrox14

[Chaser]

I'm not sure if his response to 4x15 was praise for the episode or if he was calling it challenging.

 

His Q&A is going to be interesting. Is it tomorrow or today?

I honestly don't care about how Oliver feels about any of this. He brought it on himself. I'm so much more concerned with Felicity. How she is handling it? Is she going to have a voice? Is she going to walk again? That is pretty much all I care about now.

[bijoux]

I'm not gonna lie. I want to know what Oliver is thinking and feeling as well. It's not like we've been told anything about it so far.

[Sunshine]

Vixen is also in 4.15.  I can see SA thinking scenes with her are something else.  He was impressed with the shooting of the first Flash crossover because he got to shoot in ways he hadn't before.  Her scenes should be interesting at least.

 

BAM was talking about 4.14 regarding Kleenex.  I do have to wonder since the romance is unimportant if they don't marry them off in 4.14 and break 'em up in 4.15.  A small ceremony could explain the Hoffman's presence.  The long scene is non-action and Negret was originally supposed to direct. We don't actually know that no one from the Flash is present.   

[ComicFan777]

In a past interview, Guggenheim had mentioned that next season will be much darker than this one and that Oliver will need all the help he can get next season.  Wendy Mericle has also mentioned will the team survive everything that happens to it this season.  These remarks give me the feeling that the team will be torn apart to a degree due to betrayal and everything else that happens this season with HIVE.  Ultimately, they would win against HIVE at the end of the season, but the team might not be in the best shape at the end of the season.  Oliver and Felicity may be at odds with each other to some degree.  Diggle may be seriously injured, maybe needing cybernetics help - which would tie in to some extent the comic destiny of his codename.  Laurel may leave for the summer to train with Nyssa and start the Red League to come back better trained or she might be the one in the grave.  They might even bring in aliens next season since they are incorporating Supergirl into the universe - possibly hinting at Dark Seid as a big bad next season because of the motherbox Damien Darkh has and the new gods reference about Damien Darkh.          

[Guest]

How much darker can this show get at this point? This is becoming LOL worthy.

[catrox14]

I'm not gonna lie. I want to know what Oliver is thinking and feeling as well. It's not like we've been told anything about it so far.

 

Same. For the lead character we sure don't get much insight into what is actually driving him on this issue.

[Belinea]

I have to admit that for the first time I am ready to quit the show. If they kill Diggle and Olicity, I don't know what there will be left to still pull me back in. Because all their fantastic guest stars and comic book cameos aren't really why I watch. And if next season deals with them having to once again become a team then I just don't know whether I still have the patience to watch the same thing again. 

[calliope1975]

I'm not gonna lie. I want to know what Oliver is thinking and feeling as well. It's not like we've been told anything about it so far.

 

Me, too. I'm sure it won't make any kind of sense, but I'd still like to hear Oliver's POV. 

 

After seeing Deadpool, I'd also take Oliver breaking the 4th wall, and saying, "Look, I'm sorry. This is only to further the plot, and our writers aren't very creative. There's no good reason for me to have either started or continued this dumb lie. Carry on."