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Spoiler Discussion Thread

Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

But that doesn't really make sense to me because wouldn't Donna be at the funeral? If she was why wouldn't Felicity be with her to support her? IDK I guess if this was the case, Donna would've been really upset and Felicity would've been there for her. 

Barry said he *missed* the funeral. So for all we know, it was a huge crowd, but everyone had already left the cemetery, but Oliver and Felicity stayed for fandom wanky reasons.

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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Ann Mack

Ann Mack

Well by 4x17 the BM drama will be exposed, whatever is going to happen between Oliver and Felicity should have already happened as well. So maybe this will be an episode in baby step fashion to try and start moving to them being better around each other post break-up. If they do it right there is going to have to be some distance between them. I would think it naturally since Oliver will have betrayed Felicity's trust. Maybe this is the "beacon of hope" possibly Oliver sees because Felicity is slowly warming back up to him. I also may just be rambling total nonsense because I truly don't know what direction or where the show is going with this title.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I'm hearing Beacon of Hope might be tied to Oliver's mayoral race. Perhaps this is the election episode?

 

 

Could be, since he's mentioned wanting to give the citizens of Star(ling) hope. Maybe Felicity starts to regain some feeling in her legs, too? Or maybe someone named Hope shows up with a beacon. 

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bijoux

bijoux

Looks like Emily still has on the ring in this video. I don't know how to freeze frame or do close ups maybe someone else does!

 

https://twitter.com/emilyamelll/status/693475355676561408

 

Update someone did a freeze frame and said the ring is gone. She may have also already taken it back to wardrobe since she has on her own fuzzy boots. I really can't tell so please come to your own conclusion. Not sure but they also said this is further proof for their break-up in episode 4x15 so I guess this is a scene from 4x16:

 

 

 

As far as I remember, she often films in comfortable shoes when the shoots dono't show her feet. It doesn't mean much.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

We've been assuming the spoiler that Laurel is back in court in 416 is to prosecute Damian Darhk (or Ruve Darhk), esp. given WM's comments that Laurel is going to play a big part in taking down Darhk in a non-action oriented way.  But 416 seems too soon for that take-down. (She could also don her lawyer hat again later in the season.) So consider other possibilities:

 

  • She's in court in 416 to represent Oliver in a child custody/visitation suit against BM. The kid is presumably kidnapped in 415, so the secret's out.  Then in 416 Oliver sues for visitation rights.  (Yes, I know Laurel is an ADA, but TV lawyers seem to be experts on all legal matters, civil and criminal.) 

 

  • She's prosecuting one of the Darhks, not for attempting to murder Oliver & Felicity in 409 (since they have no evidence of that) but for kidnapping Oliver's son in 415.  Team Arrow finds evidence implicating Ruve Darhk in the kidnapping.  She's arrested, effectively taking her out of the mayoral race.

 

Too ludicrous?

 

ETA: Edited to correct mistake noted by Morrigan2575 below.

Edited by tv echo
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bijoux

bijoux

If she wants to prosecute Darhk, kidnapping Felicity, Dig and Thea in front of dozens of witnesses is the best bet. I really don't think theere is a custody case over the kid at all, much less in the same episode in which he is kidnapped.

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wonderwall

wonderwall

(edited)

No but they do have enough evidence/witnesses to prosecute Darhk for attacking that Christmas party and to be honest, it wouldn't be that far of a reach to say that if he attacked the Christmas party and kidnapped Felicity, Thea, Diggle, then he, too, was responsible for shooting Felicity (causing paralysis) in the same night.... Then again that is rather speculative and probably wouldn't hold up in court but this is Arrow, none of the legal stuff really ever makes sense. 

Edited by wonderwall
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Ann Mack

Ann Mack

I really hope any and all story line involving BM and their child is concluded in one episode (hopefully 4x15) The writers and EPs have to know that neither of them were well received so why torture their fans any more than necessary by dragging out their involvement in the show. The story line will have served its purpose of labeling Oliver a parent and breaking him up from Felicity IMO.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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(edited)

We've been assuming the spoiler that Laurel is back in court in 416 is to prosecute Damian Darhk (or Ruve Darhk), esp. given WM's comments that Laurel is going to play a big part in taking down Darhk in a non-action oriented way. But 416 seems too soon for that take-down. (She could also don her lawyer hat again later in the season.) So consider other possibilities:

  • She's in court in 415 to represent Oliver in a child custody/visitation suit against BM. The kid is presumably kidnapped in 415, so the secret's out. Then in 416 Oliver sues for visitation rights. (Yes, I know Laurel is an ADA, but TV lawyers seem to be experts on all legal matters, civil and criminal.)
  • She's prosecuting one of the Darhks, not for attempting to murder Oliver & Felicity in 409 (since they have no evidence of that) but for kidnapping Oliver's son in 415. Team Arrow finds evidence implicating Ruve Darhk in the kidnapping. She's arrested, effectively taking her out of the mayoral race.
Too ludicrous?
Whatever is happening with LL and Law stuff is happening in 416, not 415. There were spoilers from yvshoots that had Arrow filming in the Art Building Annex (which is where they shoot courtroom scenes). We also had BTS pics from PB and WH showing them in a courtroom. Neal M also took pictures with fans outside of the Art Building dressed as Darhk. Seems most likely that Laurel goes after Darhk or HIVE legally. That doesn't mean she's prosecuting them, WM said she was going to throw a wrench in his plans. Could mean that she's using the law to target his funds or a business that Darhk/HIVE needs for its big evil plans.

Given that Oliver is just starting to feel guilty over lying about BMD in 414, not sure he's going to seek custody in 415. I'm not really sure how large of a role Samantha and William will play in 415. I suspect Vixen and GA needing her help with magic will be the A story.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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kismet

kismet

CZ_h3u3WQAEBiMP.jpg

Seeing this makes me hope that they may change her codename to Beacon... Because it is so much better. Or it just makes me bitter they didn't make it that originally.

 

That is a good combo of writers, so hopefully they will be able to turn out a good story.

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Ann Mack

Ann Mack

When Felicity burned her goth picture and said "the past is in the past" (not verbatim) and Oliver had that look on his face I was going this is the perfect time to slip in your past about having a damn kid! I know it might have thrown her for a loop but hey she was talking about past selves it would or could have been a segue into him opening up about the kid.

tumblr_o1sb8iVVdm1u9ofg6o1_400.jpg

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Ann Mack

Ann Mack

Wonder what episode they will have Felicity regaining the use of her legs in? I'm thinking either 17 or 18 it seems close enough to the end of the season. Possibly more about magic will be revealed through Vixen or part of the tit for tat with Nyssa. I'm thinking they are going to want to get maximum effect from Felicity being in a wheelchair and her world continuing to fall apart around her until she self rallies or with the help of her mother and come out stronger once more after going through yet another trial and test of her willpower and badassery.

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Guest

Guest

GA used the phrase 'beacon of hope' in his speech to the city in 401 so...could be the city is going to hell again but maybe before May this time. LOL. And of course GA is that beacon of hope. IDK. 

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Starfish35

Starfish35

Generally true but they are also the team that wrote the dreadful 3x22 This Is Your Sword that made me more depressed than any show

Ugh. I loathed that episode.

I really hope Calculator is her dad. I will be upset if that turns out to not be true, after all of this. I can't see how it's not true though, unless David Rapaport was trolling the audience, or they changed it afterwards.

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wonderwall

wonderwall

Generally true but they are also the team that wrote the dreadful 3x22 This Is Your Sword that made me more depressed than any show has done in years.

 

I think that what made season 3 suck so bad were the decisions that MG made, you can only do so much with his insane plot twists right?

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statsgirl

statsgirl

I don't know -- I think that if I were a writer, I would have fought the juxtaposition of Felicity etc. taking their dying breath as Oliver married Nyssa.  Very tacky.

 

 

Wonder what episode they will have Felicity regaining the use of her legs in? I'm thinking either 17 or 18 it seems close enough to the end of the season.

It may be sooner (I'm still thinking Board Meeting) but in the flash forward, all we saw was Felicity sitting in the limo.  She may still have been paralyzed at that point.

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tv echo

tv echo

I think I'm going to skip watching 415.  I really have no desire to see the BMD or the break-up.  I'll wait to read what you guys have to say first.

 

I think 417's "Beacon of Hope" will refer to Oliver - maybe deciding, despite his BM secret being exposed and his marriage/relationship with Felicity being called off, to remain in the light and in the mayoral race.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

I think 417's "Beacon of Hope" will refer to Oliver - maybe deciding, despite his BM secret being exposed and his marriage/relationship with Felicity being called off, to remain in the light and in the mayoral race.

If all this shit (including the halluci-wedding) is happening for the point of showing Oliver not to give up so easily, to fight for what he wants, and GIVE HIMSELF pep talks, it's...almost worth it!

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akiss

akiss

If all this shit (including the halluci-wedding) is happening for the point of showing Oliver not to give up so easily, to fight for what he wants, and GIVE HIMSELF pep talks, it's...almost worth it!

ITA. It has to happen sometime, so they better do it now.

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kismet

kismet

If all this shit (including the halluci-wedding) is happening for the point of showing Oliver not to give up so easily, to fight for what he wants, and GIVE HIMSELF pep talks, it's...almost worth it!

I could get behind this idea, if they promised to make it last longer than one episode. Let's make this a more permanent change. It's not just OQ's mentality that needs to change, but the writers. For too long, they have used his tendency to fall back on old habits as a crutch. It's about time they learn the lesson too.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

I think I'm going to skip watching 415.  I really have no desire to see the BMD or the break-up.  I'll wait to read what you guys have to say first.

 

I think 417's "Beacon of Hope" will refer to Oliver - maybe deciding, despite his BM secret being exposed and his marriage/relationship with Felicity being called off, to remain in the light and in the mayoral race.

4-15 is going to hurt like hell and I just have this feeling that there will be a beat where all my hopes for them not breaking up are going to get built up only to come crashing down and yet there's no way I can not watch it.  I may only watch it once but I have to see it and all the nuance, painful as it will be. 

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

4-15 is going to hurt like hell and I just have this feeling that there will be a beat where all my hopes for them not breaking up are going to get built up only to come crashing down and yet there's no way I can not watch it.  I may only watch it once but I have to see it and all the nuance, painful as it will be. 

I mean, they are 100% going to break up. They'll get back together, though. Whether it works for me is entirely questionable, bc I despise his behavior, but I think for most O/F fans it'll be totally fine.

 

If the writers let him permanently learn from all this crap, it might be okay. By S5.

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lemotomato

lemotomato

They just killed off Amanda Waller. And Deadshot last season. Legends of Tomorrow just killed off a character that was from the comics in last week's episode. Logically, having a comic counterpart shouldn't protect a character on the show from getting written out/killed off, but storytelling logic and rules have never really applied to Laurel.

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Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)

They killed off Ra's al Ghul last season. They killed Shado. Amanda Waller and Deadshot as was mentioned above. Ivo I believe is a comic character. Shrapnel. I'm sure there's several other minor characters I'm not thinking about.

I don't think her comic status is what protects her. If they can kill off Ra's al Ghul they can kill off the Black Canary.

Edited by Starfish35
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wonderwall

wonderwall

(edited)

they will never kill laurel, why you insist? she is black canary, and last year, Marc had said that she was early in evolution in this season 4 and more

 

To be fair, it's more hoping than insisting. I don't know if I can speak for all of us, but I DO hope that the show kills her off because I think she drags this show (but that's just my opinion) and I use certain arguments to justify this hope. But I also think that Laurel being the one in the grave is a long shot...  Nothing wrong with that. Just like I don't really fault anyone who hopes that Felicity or any other character is the one in the grave. 

 

And tbh justifying that Laurel isn't the one in the grave because she's black canary is one of the huge reasons why I want her to be the one in the grave because if that is the only argument people can think of for her not being in the grave, then she deserves to not be on the show for how little she brings to it. Plus if that argument actually matters then Thea can't be the one in the grave because she's Speedy, Diggle can't be the one in the grave because he's Spartan, and so on and so forth... I just hope that they don't go the safe route and kill Quentin (who right now has had very little screentime and won't be shocking whatsoever).

Edited by wonderwall
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spartan

spartan

it is your opinion, and I respect him, I think the person in the grave is probably samantha or roy, however, it is clear that the writers had no idea at the beginning of this season, laurel is a character which is still evolving and must find his place in the team arrow and and she has not yet had a history as a black canary with his own nemesis

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Starfish35

Starfish35

For me it's more a hope. I know it's not likely to be her, but I do believe it will be a series regular, and that means Quentin, Laurel, Thea, or Diggle. And Laurel just makes the most sense every way I look at it, and I'd obviously far rather lose her than any of the other three. But it will likely be Quentin - that's the safe option.

One thing though. I'm trying not to put too much stock in it, because I know there's going to be death anvils for everyone. But they are beating the "Laurel can take care of herself" drum pretty hard. It keeps getting repeated, by different characters. That may or may not mean something, but it seems a little odd to me that it keeps being said.

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looptab

looptab

(edited)

It could be they keep repeating that she can take care of herself because, if the characters believe it, then we'll believe it as well - and finally stop doubting her "badass" credentials. :D

Edited by looptab
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Guest

Guest

Even though I do tend to believe the 'because comics' argument with LL (purely because I'm not sure what else has kept on her the show this long besides the fact that she's from the comics), let's face it. They can kill anyone. The only one who is truly 100% safe is Oliver. 

 

I know a lot of people think Felicity and Diggle and Laurel are safe for different reasons but anything could happen. We just don't know. 

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

they will never kill laurel, why you insist? she is black canary

 

All of the shows have been going out of their way to show that the uniform/codename can be passed onto someone else. Ronnie died and Jax took over. Roy retired and Thea inherited his uniform. Malcolm became Ra's after original Ra's got the shaft. Laurel herself started off her Buckles journey by wearing her sister's uniform.

 

I'll be very surprised if they kill Laurel, tbh, but "she is Black Canary" as a reason has been debunked by TV canon several times over.

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tarotx

tarotx

(edited)

Yeah if Laurel isn't the death it's because they Love KC (Or KC has a kick ass contract) and not because of Black Canary. The love for the actor is the reason Malcolm is still around. This season the Flarrow verse has killed comic characters and rebranded others. 

Edited by tarotx
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