Spoiler Discussion Thread

[calliope1975]

FINAL DESTINATION: STAR(LING) CITY

 

NEAR DEATH IS COMING FOR YOU

 

AND YOU

 

AND YOU 

 

AND THEN FINALLY YOU WILL BITE IT. 

 

If any of the characters talk about taking a trip to Paris, we'll know who's in the grave.

 

Does the limo count for Oliver as well? That could have been near death. Or, has the universe already tried to kill this dude so many times before that he gets a pass this go around.

[apinknightmare]

If any of the characters talk about taking a trip to Paris, we'll know who's in the grave.

 

Does the limo count for Oliver as well? That could have been near death. Or, has the universe already tried to kill this dude so many times before that he gets a pass this go around.

I'm not sure, I haven't figured out if he gets a pass or not.

[way2interested]

So when Wendy's saying in that TVLine article with the pictures that the Calculator has a connection that is "not what people are thinking," does she just mean the general audience who might not have picked up that he's Felicity's father? Or is there something else going on? Sounds like Producer Speak to me, since they already danced around answering that a while ago, but it still makes me wonder what's even going on with that story between 412-413.

Edited January 30, 2016 by way2interested

[Chaser]

I think she is talking about Felicitys connection to Calculator.

[Guest]

I don't think any of the general audience will think Calculator is Felicity's father. I imagine it will be a surprise to anyone who doesn't follow spoilers like we do.

[wonderwall]

Better then some of the actual promotional pics CW takes. Funny how quickly they swapped out Thea for Roy, wonder if we will see them suited up together.

 

Apparently she'll be in the hospital which is why Roy takes her place.

 

And Thea will fight Roy while he's in his black outfit (thinking he's a villain) before she lands in the hospital. You could see it in the promo

[bijoux]

Those seem really good. I don't think Felicity will recognize her father. She even told Oliver in 2x13 that she didn't remember him much, just the hurt after he left. I imagine he's being very complimentary of her to

Oliver in that still they're in together. I wonder if he'll also go up to Felicity to congratulate her on whatever it is she's presenting just to be a bigger bastard. I vote yes.

The fingerless gloves really do look silly. I never notice them in action, I just know they're there. And they're seethrough?

[wonderwall]

I really am excited for this week! Tom Amandes is great and I know he'll knock it out of the park. I wonder what his chemistry with Emily Bett will be like... I definitely want to see them interact a lot in the next 2 episodes. If not, and this is just a taste for more daddy drama in season 5, sign me up! 

 

The episode stills are really interesting. I'm glad they sort of tell a story because usually it's just the masks out in the field or Felicity in the cave which isn't really interesting. Like come on, we know they're going to be out in the field, give us better photos! 

 

Also, Charlotte Ross is in episode 16, is she helping Felicity through her breakup or something? IDK... 

[Sunshine]

I really am excited for this week! Tom Amandes is great and I know he'll knock it out of the park. I wonder what his chemistry with Emily Bett will be like... I definitely want to see them interact a lot in the next 2 episodes. If not, and this is just a taste for more daddy drama in season 5, sign me up! 

 

The episode stills are really interesting. I'm glad they sort of tell a story because usually it's just the masks out in the field or Felicity in the cave which isn't really interesting. Like come on, we know they're going to be out in the field, give us better photos! 

 

Also, Charlotte Ross is in episode 16, is she helping Felicity through her breakup or something? IDK... 

Maybe she's attending the wedding and they are doing guest shots- hallucination or not.  

[bijoux]

Maybe she's attending the wedding and they are doing guest shots- hallucination or not.

I doubt it. The wedding must have have been filmed in one day. Why would they be at that location for longer? And she wasn't there then.

[statsgirl]

She may be stuck in a wheelchair but Felicity has at least three changes of outfits this episode.

If I hadn't seen my dad for 20 years, I'm not sure I'd recognize him. Tom Amandes looks great.

 

Unless Donna changed their last name, though, he has to know who she is.

He knows who she is and given that he's there with Oliver, it looks like she's going to know who he is too.  They just won't know each other as Calculator and Overwatch.  I wonder if that's why Felicity got her code name now, to keep her identity a secret when she goes up against him.

 

All that leather looks kind of silly when the lights are on.  No wonder they shoot the fight sequences in the dark.

[looptab]

Try and imagine if the Calculator is not her father and ends up being her college professor or something, haha.

[lemotomato]

What if Felicity's dad is in town ostensibly because he heard she was almost killed and wanted to check to make sure she's OK, except booo! he's actually there to steal from Palmer Tech.

[BkWurm1]

As for The Calculator appearing in the same episode, “There’s a connection there,” the EP allowed. “It may not be what people are thinking, but there’s definitely a connection.”

 

 

 

Try and imagine if the Calculator is not her father and ends up being her college professor or something, haha.

You know, maybe.  The way WM phrases it, "It may not be what people are thinking" makes me pause.  The only people really thinking anything have to be those of us that are certain it's her dad.  I still feel like that's the most likely, but what if Felicity grew up thinking he was someone else?    Would they do such a blatant analogy?  What if he's the family friend or the honorary uncle that she'd known growing up?  What if the dad she barely remembers was never her real father? 

Edited January 30, 2016 by BkWurm1

[looptab]

What if Felicity's dad is in town ostensibly because he heard she was almost killed and wanted to check to make sure she's OK, except booo! he's actually there to steal from Palmer Tech.

You know, maybe. The way WM phrases it, "It may not be what people are thinking" makes me pause. The only people really thinking anything have to be those of us that are certain it's her dad. I still feel like that's the most likely, but what if Felicity grew up thinking he was someone else? Would they do such a blatant analogy? What if he's the family friend or the honorary uncle that she'd known growing up? What if the dad she barely remembers was never her real father?

I can see both these scenarios happening.

[Ann Mack]

Stray observations:

 

 

Who in the hell does her eyelashes? They should be ran out of the make-up art department!!

 

 

Diggle is a very big and beautiful, yet hopefully climbable force of musciful nature!!

 

 

Oliver needs to go to a tanning bar or get some serious spray again just my stray observations!

 

 

Such a cutie pie!!!

 

 

I think Felicity did in deed "astonish" them?!

 

 

Proud Papa or evil mastermind plotting thief of his "possible" daughter's hard work - bastard if the latter!

 

 

Beautiful matching power couple - blue does do the body good!

 

 

Bye Felecia!!

Edited January 30, 2016 by Ann Mack

[bijoux]

Oliver needs to go to a tanning bar or get some serious spray again just my stray observations!

 

I'm actualy more distracted by his half-sleeve or whatever you wish to call it since it's in the foreground. I mean, the gloves would probably look even sillier without them, but this is like he's going to vigilante cotillion. 

[Belinea]

The Arrow suit looked way better than the GA one. And it looks like everybody understands sleeves are not your enemy expect for comic book GA. 

 

Could there be a possibility that the Calculator is not Felicity's dad and it was just a misdirect?

Edited January 30, 2016 by Belinea

[bijoux]

I will be very surprised if it's not her dad. Why would Donna figure into it in the next episode?

[kismet]

I would laugh so hard if Calculator turns out to be no genetic relation to FS at all... I would laugh if he turns out to be Roy's long lost blood relative instead. Because let's face it, TPTB have renigged on their promises to bringing PapaSmoak to the show multiple times. It would just be their standard we have an amazing plan for FS, just wait and see...... next season.

 

As for Donna coming back there is that fast* approaching upcoming wedding to plan... so she could be coming back independent from Calculator.

 

I do wonder though if Calculator is a misdirection or perhaps he is just a long-lost father-like figure for FS. That proud papa/proud hubby shot is rather interesting.

 

Edited - because fat and fast are not the same thing:) SIlly typo

Edited January 30, 2016 by kismet

[apinknightmare]

I will be very surprised if it's not her dad. Why would Donna figure into it in the next episode?

 

Well, Oliver and Felicity are planning a wedding that's rapidly approaching!

[Morrigan2575]

I don't know what WM meant about what most people are expecting buy, I'll be hugely disappointed if they don't introduce him as her father

Edited January 30, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[apinknightmare]

If he's not her bio father, he must be a father figure, at least.

[Velocity23]

I always have to ask myself if she means general public. Because they probably think he is coming in as Roys nemesis.

[Morrigan2575]

If he's not her bio father, he must be a father figure, at least.

For me, that's just not good enough. I've been waiting for this since the summer after S1. They have pushed Felicity and Diggle's stories back too long, IMO.

[tv echo]

Catching up... if they killed Diggle, Oliver would be left without a single guy friend in Star City.  More so, Diggle is his "brother" and best friend.  I don't think that even Barry or Roy qualifies as a close friend, and they live in other cities.  So would they really leave Oliver without a male friend on Arrow?

 

These EPs love to mess with fans.  I wouldn't be surprised if the Calculator turned out to be someone from Felicity's childhood, but not her father.  Then they can drag out the mystery of Felicity's father for yet another season. :(

 

If the Calculator does turn out to be Felicity's father, I'm all for it.  Then I'd be trying to decide if I would like or not like it if he turned out to be the real brains behind HIVE.  It may depend on Tom Amandes' availability and willingness to sign on for more episodes.

Edited January 30, 2016 by tv echo

[apinknightmare]

For me, that's just not good enough. I've been waiting for this since the summer after S1. They have pushed Felicity and Diggle's stories back too long, IMO.

It doesn't matter to me personally if he's biological or not if he's a person she knew as her father. Then again, I would've been okay if we never met the guy. Don't care about him, really.

[SmallScreenDiva]

For me, that's just not good enough. I've been waiting for this since the summer after S1. They have pushed Felicity and Diggle's stories back too long, IMO.

 

Yup, this is me, too. I don't think meeting Felicity's dad would matter as much if the damn show hasn't made it such a big deal by teasing it. It's like the damn grave mystery, they've raised the expectations on this story line, if The Calculator is not Papa Smoak, I will riot. 

[tv echo]

Another alternative is that they could do what The Blacklist has (maybe) done and leave it somewhat ambiguous as to whether or not he is in fact Felicity's biological father.  (Yes, I know Reddington told Liz that he's not her father, but still he could've lied; I find his attachment to her suspect.)  So the Calculator can say outright that he's not her father, but the show could plant seeds that he's maybe lying.

[tarotx]

Didn't Rapport say they have cast Felicity's dad? Then they announce the casting of Calculator? And Wendy already mentioned they are bringing in Felicity's dad who is a evil. 

http://comicbook.com/2015/10/28/arrow-ep-wendy-mericle-on-crossovers-damien-darhk-legends-more/

[Morrigan2575]

Didn't Rapport say they have cast Felicity's dad? Then they announce the casting of Calculator? And Wendy already mentioned they are bringing in Felicity's dad who is a evil. 

http://comicbook.com/2015/10/28/arrow-ep-wendy-mericle-on-crossovers-damien-darhk-legends-more/

yes to both. I think we're just reacting to WM's latest comment which is either just playing very coy or (worse) implies a change in direction. Personally I do think Calculator is her father, I waa just stressing my annoyance at a possible bait and switch

[AyChihuahua]

You know, maybe.  The way WM phrases it, "It may not be what people are thinking" makes me pause.  The only people really thinking anything have to be those of us that are certain it's her dad.  I still feel like that's the most likely, but what if Felicity grew up thinking he was someone else?    Would they do such a blatant analogy?  What if he's the family friend or the honorary uncle that she'd known growing up?  What if the dad she barely remembers was never her real father? 

Uncle Calcie?

[bijoux]

Arrow trailer/TV spot with Felicity and Calculator --

 

http://jhopq.tumblr.com/post/138345357590/arrow-4x12-trailer

 

I'll be shocked if he's anyone other than her father. Shocked, I tell you. 

 

I get that Donna's there in the next episode for the wedding prep, but WM also talked about how Felicity will find out stuff about Donna, didn't she? That again connects her to her former husband more than the wedding.

 

Felicity's definitely still on the team in 4x16 per the set video SA posted from yesterday. People are saying that the ring is gone. I can't really tell because the quality isn't that good, but I absolutely believe them. So she's still on the job after the break-up

[AyChihuahua]

Felicity's definitely still on the team in 4x16 per the set video SA posted from yesterday. People are saying that the ring is gone. I can't really tell because the quality isn't that good, but I absolutely believe them. So she's still on the job after the break-up

There's a time slip bw 15 and 16, so if she wanted a week away from him, it could happen then. I don't think anyone realistically expected her to quit. She has to be on the team, for the show. I mean, imagine Felicity-less Team Arrow...is that a team you'd want to watch?

[kismet]

My word of caution somebody I think here said it first is to keep your expectations of these writers very low. And don't trust the writers to deliver on anything they promise. For those of you really invested in Calculator being FS's father, I hope it comes true for you. Honestly, I could care less. I think Amandes will elevate whatever material he is given, that's about all I can be certain about his character. Personally the only future story I'm invested in is Bratva & Oliver, and I'm not sure I will ever get that.

 

On a practical note, did they use the same computer set to film both Calculator's & FS's scenes? Or perhaps it is just the old foundry's computer set up, but it looks awfully familiar.

Edited January 30, 2016 by kismet

[Guest]

It's possible that the Calculator isn't Felicity's dad. We all just assumed because we were promised more about Felicity's story and background but it's possible he might be someone else. I actually don't mind if he turns out to be someone different because a) we're still getting some Felicity focus and b) that leaves her dad to come back next season. 

 

I mean, it probably is her dad because this show doesn't shock anymore but I find it interesting that he would even risk being in the same room as her if he's stayed away this long. 

Edited January 30, 2016 by Guest

[wonderwall]

I mean, it probably is her dad because this show doesn't shock anymore but I find it interesting that he would even risk being in the same room as her if he's stayed away this long. 

 

LOL I hope he's her dad though, because she low key makes fun of his villain name :p Because let's be real, the Calculator is a ridiculous name

[Velocity23]

Excited to start filming #417 of #arrow this week! The script by @BenSokolowski & @briforsul is....awesome! @ARROWwriters @CW_Arrow

 

https://twitter.com/charlotteross/status/693517581307637760

[wonderwall]

Also Charlotte is going to be filming 417, not 416.... hmmm I mean this obviously means that there's no wedding. But I wonder what her role's going to be.

[apinknightmare]

They're probably bringing her around to build a stronger relationship so she'll be one more person devastated when Quentin bites it. Or building up her relationship with Quentin, so she's his support when Laurel bites it, since her horrible mother probably wouldn't bother to come to town. But probably the first thing. 

Edited January 30, 2016 by apinknightmare

[wonderwall]

They're probably bringing her around to build a stronger relationship so she'll be one more person devastated when Quentin bites it. 

 

But that doesn't really make sense to me because wouldn't Donna be at the funeral? If she was why wouldn't Felicity be with her to support her? IDK I guess if this was the case, Donna would've been really upset and Felicity would've been there for her. 

 

Even then, I don't see her wanting to kill for Quentin regardless of whether he was dating Donna. Unless the show starts building Quentin's relationship with the team, I don't see them being that upset. Even in that interview David Ramsey didn't think it was Quentin... IDK

[Guest]

Ugh, more SmoaknLance. Make it stop!

 

Do we think Donna is still in Star City? I know we didn't see her in 411 but would she just go back to Vegas? I'm wondering if we're supposed to think she's there all the time.

 

I hate that there's a possibility that this show would kill off Diggle and we'd still be left with the whole Lance family. 

[Velocity23]

[apinknightmare]

But that doesn't really make sense to me because wouldn't Donna be at the funeral? If she was why wouldn't Felicity be with her to support her? IDK I guess if this was the case, Donna would've been really upset and Felicity would've been there for her. 

 

Even then, I don't see her wanting to kill for Quentin regardless of whether he was dating Donna. Unless the show starts building Quentin's relationship with the team, I don't see them being that upset. Even in that interview David Ramsey didn't think it was Quentin... IDK

 

 

The flash forward scenes do not matter. The only point of them is to get us wondering about and talking about who is in the grave - if they wanted to give us any kind of clue about who it was, they would. The only thing they want us to know is who it isn't - Oliver and Felicity. Who is and isn't there isn't really a clue about anything. 

 

Because of what I wrote above, I don't think Felicity's reaction is necessarily indicative of who is in the grave. Quentin could die protecting her, he could die protecting Donna, he could die doing any manner of honorable things. Or Felicity could just have pure hatred for the person who did the killing (Malcolm, for example), and yeah - she'd probably want the guy dead.  

Edited January 30, 2016 by apinknightmare

[wonderwall]

The flash forward scenes do not matter. The only point of them is to get us wondering about and talking about who is in the grave - if they wanted to give us any kind of clue about who it was, they would. The only thing they want us to know is who it isn't - Oliver and Felicity. Who is and isn't there isn't really a clue about anything. 

 

Because of what I wrote above, I don't think Felicity's reaction is necessarily indicative of who is in the grave. Quentin could die protecting her, he could die protecting Donna, he could die doing any manner of honorable things. Or Felicity could just have pure hatred for the person who did the killing (Malcolm, for example), and yeah - she'd probably want the guy dead.  

 

Could be very possible that it's Malcolm who's the killer and Felicity's fed up with him being loose on the streets just killing people. 

 

*sigh* This is why the writers not knowing who they want to kill is really stupid because it could either make the reactions of the death either over the top (Like Felicity's reaction) or not emotional enough (Oliver's reaction especially if it's Thea or Diggle). 

 

I do hope for the flash forward scenes to matter in that the death actually means something, but I agree with you that it's not really good to be hopeful that it'll all make sense. 

Also Ben Sokolowski and Brian Ford Sullivan are probably the strongest writers on the team. 417 should be a good episode. 

[Ann Mack]

Wouldn't all this speculation be just like Shadowspire meaning the perfect misdirect and it is Laurel in the grave! She is by most part the one very few people are speculating about being in that grave! I do think almost every other character still has some story to be told, while in short it seems they are tying up all of her personal and professional connections.

 

However, I might be wrong and they kill Quentin and then bring in some young Captain for Season 5 and give Laurel a nice story line even one including a love interest in the new police Captain. I'm okay with any character being in that grave as long as it NOT Diggle!

Well that's a loaded title IMO lol!! Wonder if Marc is going to be upset that she stole his glory in releasing the name of the episode. At least he'll still get to drop his Billy Joel related song!

Edited January 30, 2016 by Ann Mack

[apinknightmare]

*sigh* This is why the writers not knowing who they want to kill is really stupid because it could either make the reactions of the death either over the top (Like Felicity's reaction) or not emotional enough (Oliver's reaction especially if it's Thea or Diggle). 

 

I don't think knowing the occupant of the grave really matters in this case, since these flash forwards were always just a tease to keep fandom on edge and create a sense of doom whenever someone got hurt - they're a gimmick, not a puzzle for us to figure out with clues as to who's actually in there. 

Edited January 30, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Ann Mack]

Looks like Emily still has on the ring in this video. I don't know how to freeze frame or do close ups maybe someone else does!

 

https://twitter.com/emilyamelll/status/693475355676561408

 

Update someone did a freeze frame and said the ring is gone. She may have also already taken it back to wardrobe since she has on her own fuzzy boots. I really can't tell so please come to your own conclusion. Not sure but they also said this is further proof for their break-up in episode 4x15 so I guess this is a scene from 4x16:

 

Edited January 30, 2016 by Ann Mack

[apinknightmare]

Yeah, it does look like it's still on there, but maybe it's just the light? Not sure why she'd still be wearing it since SA pretty much said they break up in 4x15.

Edited January 30, 2016 by apinknightmare

[statsgirl]

Broken Hearts --> Beach on Hope....  sounds like the eye of the storm since we know the death is coming.

 

A year of two ago, David Ramsey said that when we find out who Felicity's father is, we'd understand where her computing brain came for.  That makes me pretty sure that this is her bio-dad.

 

What if Felicity's dad is in town ostensibly because he heard she was almost killed and wanted to check to make sure she's OK, except booo! he's actually there to steal from Palmer Tech.

I think that if my father had abandoned me 20 years ago and then showed up when he heard I was the CEO of a company like Palmer Tech, I'd be very, very suspicious of him.

 

Also Ben Sokolowski and Brian Ford Sullivan are probably the strongest writers on the team. 417 should be a good episode. 

Generally true but they are also the team that wrote the dreadful 3x22 This Is Your Sword that made me more depressed than any show has done in years.