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Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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Chaser

Chaser

I thought DR was implying he was going to buy something at the start of the season but didn't because of the grave thing. Maybe he meant it fell through. Still sad because he hasn't purchased one when he was planning too. That would be a bummer for anyone. 

 

I don't think we are ever going to be completely free of the BM and Kid. But I don't think they are moving to Star City either. I think they are going to move to offscreenville only to be casually mentioned or brought back when plot demands. I honestly don't believe that the EPs want to tie themselves to a kid and BM. 

Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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They very well could keep the kid around, but if things go the way we're speculating, it won't make a damn bit of sense, and also makes Oliver and Samantha look like the most irresponsible and terrible parents ever. So that's probably what will happen.

Very true,  I just don't think the EPs decided to create the story in S2, revisit it in S3 and then make it a bigger part of the story in S4 (then just a cameo) for the specific purpose of making it/them disappear.   

 

I think it's a stupid story and wish it would all just disappear but, I don't think they agree with me.  I hope I'm wrong.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Very true,  I just don't think the EPs decided to create the story in S2, revisit it in S3 and then make it a bigger part of the story in S4 (then just a cameo) for the specific purpose of making it/them disappear.   

 

I think it's a stupid story and wish it would all just disappear but, I don't think they agree with me.  I hope I'm wrong.

 

Yeah, I wasn't talking specifically about what I thought they planned to do, just that the way they wrote it (probably unintentionally) made it so that the only believable outcome in which Samantha and Oliver don't look like complete morons is if she and William both disappear. 

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Chaser

Chaser

(edited)

So Oliver codenames her? I approve of that.

 

Also, yes, please, Craig, reminds us that Laurel and Oliver aren't lovers, hahahahaha.

I didn't look at the website, but Craig makes sense. I couldn't figure out why that would be the scene that proves they don't sideline Laurel. Not the action or mention the DA thing. Nope, she talks to Oliver. LOL 

 

ETA: ..."Lovers".... Sounds creepy

Edited by Chaser
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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

I didn't look at the website, but Craig makes sense. I couldn't figure out why that would be the scene that proves they don't sideline Laurel. Not the action or mention the DA thing. Nope, she talks to Oliver. LOL

 

I think we're now in the next phase of the Laurel Lance Crazy Bananapants Narrative Experiment: she doesn't have her own storyline, but now she has scenes with Oliver, she figures in parts of the A-plot, but she still doesn't influence/inspire/change/affect Oliver's plot in any possible way, and the A-plot still moves along almost as if through her -- if she weren't there, the story would be the same.

 

It's almost fascinating, really, if it weren't for the fact that Laurel is kind of like a dementor.

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Carrie Ann

Carrie Ann

With every codename option, I picture someone under stress saying it over the comms in an action scene, and about 90% of the options fail the test for me. Just...imagine Oliver being choked out or something and being like, "HACKTIVIST...need...the...code!!!" Firewall and the ruled-out Oracle and Proxy are the only ones I've seen (that I recall) that I don't think sound that clunky, so I'm rooting for Firewall for now. (The clunkiness is a problem for me with most superhero names in general.) 

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Chaser

Chaser

I think we're now in the next phase of the Laurel Lance Crazy Bananapants Narrative Experiment: she doesn't have her own storyline, but now she has scenes with Oliver, she figures in parts of the A-plot, but she still doesn't influence/inspire/change/affect Oliver's plot in any possible way, and the A-plot still moves along almost as if through her -- if she weren't there, the story would be the same.

 

It's almost fascinating, really, if it weren't for the fact that Laurel is kind of like a dementor.

Laurel Lance: Dementor themed window dressing.

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kismet

kismet

Idk that they would need to do a wheelchair storyline just to keep her out of the field.She already doesn't go unless they give her a reason to so I think they wouldn't have a problem just not writting plots that require her in the field.I really think they just think the wheelchair is a good way to give her a cruicible and an emotional storyline.I don't really agree though but I don't think they did it to sideline her.

I think there is a part of them that did it to keep her out of the field. It's clear from EBRs limited stunts & social media postings that she has some talent in the basic fighting dept. I can't imagine that has not gone unnoticed by fans who hound the writers And writers that perhaps are inclined to want to put FS in the field, this is a way to tame those tendencies & a harsh reminder from TPTB that FS is not a masked hero. Plus, it buys them time until next season when they will probably put her in the field. So it's a relationship & character plot stall all rolled into one...

 

I also think they per usual like to steal from Batman & Batman adjacent stories, so the wheelchair is pretty much their for them to take. Plus it's their little passive-aggressive gesture to the DC team. You can take away our ability to use "oracle" but we can still use the story.

 

It also fits their over-dramatic OMG (but not really) tendencies that we will be so amazing & groundbreaking to do a paralysis story. Like people will be raving about it, and we won't even make her cry this time.

 

Done well, I can imagine it would be a fabulous story for character growth and development. Beyond EBRs & SAs acting, I have no faith that it will actually accomplish anywhere near its potential. It's probably going to be more of a crutch for the writers than a crucible for FS.

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statsgirl

statsgirl

I loved this line from Craig:

 

A lot of Season 4 so far is about how the characters have grown since their “origin stories;” this storyline also puts that together for several people.

He's getting the realization that the show isn't going to follow the comics, at last.  And that Green Arrow/Black Canary may not end up together.

 

Also the news tin the Collider interview hat they've realized the problems with Diggle's costume:

DAVID RAMSEY: Well, there’s been some progress. Actually, there will be some modifications to that helmet. So, yes, he is in a helmet, but that helmet is ever-evolving. There will be some improvements and enhancements to that helmet

 

Now if only they would give Oliver some arm protection again...

kismet

kismet

BRIAN FORD SULLIVAN CONFIRMED A DIGGLE/FELICITY SCENE. THIS IS NOT A DRILL!

GIRD YOUR LOINS!! The world as we know it may fall apart.... Between this & a L/O sparring scene, I'm really concerned if I should update my insurance policies.

 

Seriously, We are so overdue for a Dig/FS scene.... it's been ages.... and desperately needed!

kismet

kismet

Per MG's tweet, the Billy Joel song for 411 is "The Stranger".  I looked at the song lyrics and don't understand how this song would fit what I know of 411 (puzzled)

 

I think the song fits O/F's relationship, not quite sure how it fits 411 specifically... but I can roll with it.

Binary! I still love Binary.

I'm just so bummed I never thought of suggesting it to the writers.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

Thinking about the halluci-wedding, it could either be a big troll move, and a further chance for SA to show off his kicked puppy face. OR, it could be great. Say in the previous episode, Felicity dumps him. That dream is, seemingly, over. He may also lose the kid to witness protection, and the mayoral election. The latter two aren't necessary, though...so he's dumped, and sad, but he's let her walk away and given up that dream, bc when it comes to emotional stuff for himself, that's what he always does.  

 

Then he's drugged and hallucinates or dreams his perfect wedding to Felicity. I would love for the show, instead of using that to give us MORE sad Oliver, to make it the kick in the ass he needs to decide to WORK for Felicity. It has so many advantages...finally he'd be, effectively, giving himself a pep talk. Finally he'd be deciding to work and change for Felicity. Finally he'd be doing something to achieve his dreams instead of just sadly and resignedly giving them up. Plus, that would make the halluci-wedding mean something, actually something fairly big and good in Oliver's own psyche. 

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Mrs. de Winter

Mrs. de Winter

The Diggle and Felicity scene better be more than a quick chat on the phone.  It has been absolutely ridiculous how little interaction they have had this season. 

 

In one of the interviews with DR he says Diggle would tell Oliver to give into "the man, to the husband, to the lover and go be by her side."   Is husband just a poor word choice or an overstatement?  Or could the wedding have been real and DR slipped? 

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kismet

kismet

Thinking about the halluci-wedding, it could either be a big troll move, and a further chance for SA to show off his kicked puppy face. OR, it could be great. Say in the previous episode, Felicity dumps him. That dream is, seemingly, over. He may also lose the kid to witness protection, and the mayoral election. The latter two aren't necessary, though...so he's dumped, and sad, but he's let her walk away and given up that dream, bc when it comes to emotional stuff for himself, that's what he always does.  

 

Then he's drugged and hallucinates or dreams his perfect wedding to Felicity. I would love for the show, instead of using that to give us MORE sad Oliver, to make it the kick in the ass he needs to decide to WORK for Felicity. It has so many advantages...finally he'd be, effectively, giving himself a pep talk. Finally he'd be deciding to work and change for Felicity. Finally he'd be doing something to achieve his dreams instead of just sadly and resignedly giving them up. Plus, that would make the halluci-wedding mean something, actually something fairly big and good in Oliver's own psyche. 

Stop writing logical and character growing plotlines.... I might just start believing they are possible :)

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

In one of the interviews with DR he says Diggle would tell Oliver to give into "the man, to the husband, to the lover and go be by her side."   Is husband just a poor word choice or an overstatement?  Or could the wedding have been real and DR slipped? 

There's effectively zero chance it's a real wedding. Fiance is future husband, so I am sure it means nothing. Also, he seemed to mean 4.11, by which they're obviously not married yet.

Stop writing logical and character growing plotlines.... I might just start believing they are possible :)

I don't want more cold Felicity and sad puppy Oliver. I want him wooing the shit out of her, promising sincerely never ever to lie to her again, and SHOWING her that he means it.

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jay741982

jay741982

There's effectively zero chance it's a real wedding. Fiance is future husband, so I am sure it means nothing. Also, he seemed to mean 4.11, by which they're obviously not married yet.

I don't want more cold Felicity and sad puppy Oliver. I want him wooing the shit out of her, promising sincerely never ever to lie to her again, and SHOWING her that he means it.

I want that last part too but they seem so cold in that flash forward it gives me fears that Oliver will revert to season 3 Oliver and not fight for her

nksarmi

nksarmi

(edited)

Ok after this episode, I saw again - Felicity's anger in the cross-over was OOC and he HAS to do something more to make her break up with him.

 

As of right now it looks like Oliver figured out the boy was his, confronted BM on it, promised to keep it a secret, had a short play session with the kid, went home and told Felicity it was over, nothing to worry about and then proceeded to get entirely wrapped up in Starling City / Green Arrow business.

 

So unless they veer hard right sometime in the next couple of episodes, I don't see why his explanation wouldn't be "She didn't want me to be part of the boy's life and made me promise not to tell anyone about him. I was trying to figure out what to do when it became obvious I can't be part of his life because of what Darhk did to you.  It didn't make sense to tell you if I wasn't going to be able to see him and I didn't want you to worry about it when you needed to get better."

 

Now I know Oliver NEVER talks that much, but still while I could see that leading to angry Felicity - it would not lead to a break up in my head.  He HAS to do something more and given the Nyssa / Malcolm spoilers - I think that something more involves siding with Malcolm.

Edited by nksarmi
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)

So unless they veer hard right sometime in the next couple of episodes, I don't see why his explanation wouldn't be "She didn't want me to be part of the boy's life and made me promise not to tell anyone about him. I was trying to figure out what to do when it became obvious I can't be part of his life because of what Darhk did to you.  It didn't make sense to tell you if I wasn't going to be able to see him and I didn't want you to worry about it when you needed to get better."

 

Coming straight off of what seems like some drama with her own father who abandoned her, it could be a compound of keeping the kid a secret, and leaving him without a father once he found out about it, which she'd probably have a difficult time accepting, even if he did explain why. But I do agree with you that after what we've seen of these two, it does seem like something else might compound things. But who knows with these writers. 

Edited by apinknightmare
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SleepDeprived

SleepDeprived

Shit. I'm not happy about this possible death of Katana. I'm going to have to rethink my burgeoning excitement about enjoying the F out of that Suicide Squad movie because, based on the trailers, it looks like it might turn out fun. But Arrow's Tatsu is fantastic and I like her too much to lose her because DC thinks audiences are too dumb to be able to separate the two universes. Ugh, DC. Fail.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

Coming straight off of what seems like some drama with her own father who abandoned her, it could be a compound of keeping the kid a secret, and leaving him without a father once he found out about it, which she'd probably have a difficult time accepting, even if he did explain why. But I do agree with you that after what we've seen of these two, it does seem like something else might compound things. But who knows with these writers. 

I've always maintained that he will be alluded to having visited the kid. But it doesn't really matter. Just bc they're writing them well now doesn't mean they won't have the exact same thing that happened in the erased timeline happen again. The writers are not consistent from episode to episode, and they have no problem screwing up characterization for plot. That is just how they are.

 

Plus, yeah, cumulative effect. No matter how well she handles each event, at some point it's just too many events.

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nksarmi

nksarmi

Coming straight off of what seems like some drama with her own father who abandoned her, it could be a compound of keeping the kid a secret, and leaving him without a father once he found out about it, which she'd probably have a difficult time accepting, even if he did explain why. But I do agree with you that after what we've seen of these two, it does seem like something else might compound things. But who knows with these writers. 

 

If they made it about Felicity being uncomfortable about him abandoning his son - and they'd have to let Emily play that up - I could sort of stomach it.  But no, I cannot accept that just that lie (if he hasn't seen the kid since then) leads to the break-up.  I have been frustrated with Oliver, thought he was an idiot, and wanted to smack him on numerous occasions - but the speech he gave her at the end about the world they live in and there has to hope she can walk again?  It would be hard to dump a man full of that much love even if he didn't immediately tell her about a son he didn't know he had until two months ago and who he only saw once.  I just don't buy it.

 

Plus since she was shot because Darkh went after Oliver (not Green Arrow) not letting anyone know about the kid actually makes sense right now.  And Felicity of all people would understand that.

 

Nope.  He HAS to do something more. Something I will probably want to smack him for - again.

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Coop33

Coop33

Dang, I'm worried about Tatsu now too, but would they really bring her back just to kill her? She has no immediate connection to current story lines, so that would seem pretty cruel. It would have been weird to never hear from Waller again, so I get why they needed to kill her (even if I don't have to like it), but that doesn't really apply to Katana.

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