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Spoiler Discussion Thread

Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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bijoux

bijoux

According to the description of 4x11 tv echo posted in Spoilers Only Dig takes the lead on hunting down Shadowspire. I'm not really sure why since Oliver has already dealt with them on the island. Because it's still not that part of the season where he remembers things about his five years away? I swear, I'm waiting for the day when we find out that the physical and mental torture he went through has resulted in him having issues with his long term memory. Or is it because Lyla is attacked and it's personal?

On another note, Andy's apparently also included and how is that at all wise?

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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kismet

kismet

According to the description of 4x11 tv echo posted in Spoilers Only Dig takes the lead on hunting down Shadowspire. I'm not really sure why since Oliver has already dealt with them on the island. Because it's still not that part of the season where he remembers things about his five years away? I swear, I'm waiting for the day when we find out that the physical and mental torture he went through has resulted in him having issues with his long term memory. Or is it because Lyla is attacked and it's personal?

I waiting for the day we find out that the OQ that returned is not really OQ, that somewhere on an island somewhere the real OQ is hanging out drinking coconuts and then we can start the whole journey again. I don't want it, but I see it coming down the path.

 

OQ having issues with his memory would be an interesting reveal. It could happen. IRL, people often have issues with memories around traumatic events. The human mind has some pretty phenomenal ways of protecting itself.

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Chaser

Chaser

I kept reading on tumblr that in Jewish custom, woman do not wear jewelry at funerals. So I poked around a bit because I don't believe everything on tumblr and I found a couple sources to confirm. One of them also said that couples refrain from intimacy.

If the lack of ring and pysical distance was them writing in Felicitys Jewish faith, talk about the ultimate Troll. I don't know if I would be impressed or genuinely pissed they used the characters heritage that way.

Important note, Felicity was wearing makeup and her hair was done (which I read is a no) but it's The CW so I didn't think that would happen.

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bijoux

bijoux

I read those too. While I'm not disputing the veracity of the claims, that's not what's going on here seeing as Mericle is on record saying that the scene was important for the state of their relationship and that there was a visual clue about it. The engagement is off at that point.

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wonderwall

wonderwall

(edited)

I kept reading on tumblr that in Jewish custom, woman do not wear jewelry at funerals. So I poked around a bit because I don't believe everything on tumblr and I found a couple sources to confirm. One of them also said that couples refrain from intimacy.

If the lack of ring and pysical distance was them writing in Felicitys Jewish faith, talk about the ultimate Troll. I don't know if I would be impressed or genuinely pissed they used the characters heritage that way.

Important note, Felicity was wearing makeup and her hair was done (which I read is a no) but it's The CW so I didn't think that would happen.

 

I'd say that would be deeply impressive, but in a diabolical way. On the one had, wow, kudos to keeping jewish tradition alive and informing the audience of some jewish customs. But on the other hand, using that to your advantage is kind of dickish. So if that's the case, I land firmly in the middle, I'd be impressed either way lol 

 

I've been having a niggling feeling since that scene that the whole "She doesn't have an engagement ring on oh my god they're going to break up!" thing is a red herring. I don't know why, but it's obvious that the show didn't HAVE to show Felicity without the ring. I mean it's a great way for people to talk and get used to the idea of a break up only for them to zag when we expect them to zig (points for anyone who gets the reference ;)). 

 

It's quite possible that both are just too upset to even try to console one another or whatnot. IDK 

 

But I'm also fully expecting them to break up. It's also possible that this is the point in their relationship where things start to get better (with Oliver asking Felicity if she's okay and vice versa). 

Edited by wonderwall
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kismet

kismet

I kept reading on tumblr that in Jewish custom, woman do not wear jewelry at funerals. So I poked around a bit because I don't believe everything on tumblr and I found a couple sources to confirm. One of them also said that couples refrain from intimacy.

If the lack of ring and pysical distance was them writing in Felicitys Jewish faith, talk about the ultimate Troll. I don't know if I would be impressed or genuinely pissed they used the characters heritage that way.

Important note, Felicity was wearing makeup and her hair was done (which I read is a no) but it's The CW so I didn't think that would happen.

Thanks for researching. It might actually be the ultimate troll. Although I thought wedding & engagement bands were an allowable exception?

In all honesty her hair did look like crap and her make up was very subtle so that could be the compromise to being in somewhat in compliance with her faith.

Either way I feel like the FF provides very few reliable leads because the writers will manipulate once they need to fit their plot to the plot.

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

(edited)

I don't know if I missed anyone mentioning it before, but the visual effects scene in 411 the writer and VFX supervisor were praising EBR for is probably Felicity + Goth Felicity.

Edited by dtissagirl
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kes0704

kes0704

In all probability the O/F relationship will be (and should be) strained. But the one thing I keep thinking is if they break up at the first sign of trouble then what was the point of the dialogue in 409 and 410 about weathering hard times.

In 409 Felicity says the point of marriage is to get through the hard times because they are together and in 410 there is the "for better or worse" talk, and while I know that character / story continuity is not their friend it would make those words particularly irrelevant.

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lemotomato

lemotomato

(edited)

I don't know if I missed anyone mentioning it before, but the visual effects scene in 411 the writer and VFX supervisor were praising EBR for is probably Felicity + Goth Felicity.

Yeah, that's probably it. But didn't the writer claim that they had never used this kind of effect before? They had Oliver Queen fight Oliver the Arrow in 301. They should really stop using the "never done this before!" claim so often.

Edited by lemotomato
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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I don't know if I missed anyone mentioning it before, but the visual effects scene in 411 the writer and VFX supervisor were praising EBR for is probably Felicity + Goth Felicity.

I suggested that a couple of days ago but, I couldn't figure out why they would make such a big deal about it. I mentioned in my last post that we've already seen something similar with Oliver vs Arrow in 301 and it's practically second nature for The Vampire Diaries, even Supernatural has done it a couple of times.

I was trying to figure out why it would be a visual SFX when it's simply editing trick with stand-ins

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

In all probability the O/F relationship will be (and should be) strained. But the one thing I keep thinking is if they break up at the first sign of trouble then what was the point of the dialogue in 409 and 410 about weathering hard times.

In 409 Felicity says the point of marriage is to get through the hard times because they are together and in 410 there is the "for better or worse" talk, and while I know that character / story continuity is not their friend it would make those words particularly irrelevant.

I'd say external v. internal pressure. Felicity was thinking about Darhk attacking them, not Oliver lying. They're supposed to be a team, building a life together, that could take on anything done to them. But instead the thing that's going to go wrong and break them is coming from inside the team, bc instead of building a life with her, he'll be building a different life with the spawn that she doesn't even get to know about.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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(edited)

New offensive theory of the day! Diggle is the one in the grave, and Andy will replace him.

The stupid. It burns.

Well someone's a 'sour apple' LOL

If you don't get it, PM me and I'll explain

Edited by Morrigan2575
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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

The "experimental" part of BFS's tweet makes me think they're not doing trick cutting, or split-screen, which is why I thought of Orphan Black. The VFX guy also mentioned doing a very technical scene -- the way OB does the clone scenes is crazy technical, and demands super exact movements from Tatiana Maslany, that she has to memorize and repeat several times over.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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The "experimental" part of BFS's tweet makes me think they're not doing trick cutting, or split-screen, which is why I thought of Orphan Black. The VFX guy also mentioned doing a very technical scene -- the way OB does the clone scenes is crazy technical, and demands super exact movements from Tatiana Maslany, that she has to memorize and repeat several times over.

Thanks for the explanation. I've only watched 1 episode of Orphan Black and never really bothered to think about how they do the duplicates

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lemotomato

lemotomato

Well someone's a 'sour apple' LOL

If you don't get it, PM me and I'll explain

I gotcha ;)

 

I really should stop reading theories like these, though. They make me so angry because they basically reduce characters like Felicity and Diggle to "the hacker" and "the Black guy that fights" by implying they can just be replaced by Curtis and Andy. Completely ignored is how integral they've always been in Oliver's journey and his life. Meanwhile, the only character that really is nothing but just another mask, that has no influence in Oliver's life, that brings nothing unique to the show so they wouldn't even need a new character to "replace" her if she gets killed off, is not even considered as grave candidate, for no reason except because comics. Ugh.

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Guest

Guest

I gotcha ;)

 

I really should stop reading theories like these, though. They make me so angry because they basically reduce characters like Felicity and Diggle to "the hacker" and "the Black guy that fights" by implying they can just be replaced by Curtis and Andy. Completely ignored is how integral they've always been in Oliver's journey and his life. Meanwhile, the only character that really is nothing but just another mask, that has no influence in Oliver's life, that brings nothing unique to the show so they wouldn't even need a new character to "replace" her if she gets killed off, is not even considered as grave candidate, for no reason except because comics. Ugh.

 

I need to stop reading these theories too but it's hard to escape them. I'm sick and tired of reading that Curtis can simply replace Felicity because he's smarter than her and she was only their IT support anyway. There's never any reference to the HUGE impact she's had on Oliver's life emotionally and in his journey to Green Arrow.

 

Oh, and it's a double whammy because Curtis could also be their token POC if Diggle were to die. WTF?! And the reasoning always comes down to the fact that they weren't in the comics and they both have to leave for the show to 'finally start.'

 

I've literally had it up to here with having to defend liking characters and relationships that weren't in the comics. Felicity and Diggle fans always have to fight so hard. It's so annoying.

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tarotx

tarotx

So people on a couple facebook groups I'm in said KC was telling people that Vixen is going to help Laurel with her Canary cry. Has anyone else heard-read from a source? I'm hoping it's not true since Vixen and Laurel's animal sounds come from different places. It's just too stupid for me to believe...

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wonderwall

wonderwall

So people on a couple facebook groups I'm in said KC was telling people that Vixen is going to help Laurel with her Canary cry. Has anyone else heard-read from a source? I'm hoping it's not true since Vixen and Laurel's animal sounds come from different places. It's just too stupid for me to believe...

God.......... Please NO.

 

tumblr_mnfwx3nT6w1rynk4uo4_250.gif

6357838402108309351749852098_exam1.gif

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Guest

Guest

(edited)

So people on a couple facebook groups I'm in said KC was telling people that Vixen is going to help Laurel with her Canary cry. Has anyone else heard-read from a source? I'm hoping it's not true since Vixen and Laurel's animal sounds come from different places. It's just too stupid for me to believe...

 

It's probably true. To be fair, she needs all the help she can get. Someone has to prop her and it's Vixen's turn.

Edited by Guest
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)

Like @morrigan2575 wrote, I've only read that as a wish in Damien Holbrook's article when Vixen was announced. I'm not sure exactly how she would be able to help since the cry is basically a scream filtered through an electronic device, and not something that Laurel does on her own. Unless Vixen teaches Laurel how to chirp or something? LOL

Edited by apinknightmare
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tarotx

tarotx

Yeah I read the article a long time ago but this is supposedly coming from KC. This is coming from a couple of Carney groups on Facebook, But I just now read it in the large group The Arrow Cave. They are calling it a rumor though. I was hoping you guys had a source. Or no source so it would be completely false. Thanks for replying. 

The only time I've ever heard that is in the Damien Holbrook article announcing Vixen.

 

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Guest

Guest

It sounds like a rumor to me but it could have some truth because I literally would not put it past them to use Vixen that way. But who exactly is KC supposedly telling? She's not even at HVFF. 

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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(edited)

I'm guessing this is originally from the Damien Holbrook article, and somehow through a game of Internet "telephone" it has become attributed to KC.

It's possibly true although it doesn't make much sense. However, I'm inclined to believe it's a game of Telephone or Grapevine (whichever one you use).

i tried to find the group but it's closed so i can't read the post.

I haven't seen any twitter mentions of fan interaction with KC so far this weekend. She's staying in NYC.

You know my response to this...Fuck Off KC, you loser (she's not Canadian so she doesn't get the hoser) Edited by Morrigan2575
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lemotomato

lemotomato

You know my response to this...Fuck Off KC, you loser (she's not Canadian so she doesn't get the hoser)

LOL... so I take it that if I should ever visit NJ, I should stay in NJ and not NYC to avoid this kind of standard response? 

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lemotomato

lemotomato

(edited)

From the tumblr of a fan at HVFF:

So I asked Stephen that when he’s reading scripts, how much is Captain Amell and how much is Evil Story Steve. He said “mostly evil story Steve”. I immediately said “you asshole.” followed by “I love you but you asshole.” He then said, “Episode 4x15 is your episode.”

I'm guessing that 415 is going to be really tough to watch. 

 

Now that I think about it, episode 15 has been bad the last 2 seasons too.

Edited by lemotomato
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Chaser

Chaser

Put me down as thinking this is just telephone. That being said I could see them contriving a reason she gains a canary cry. It would be total fan service but that's a lot of what Laurels moments are.

I have to say though if they give her the canary cry with Vixen, she needs to be in the grave or leave town. They already made her an equal fighter to Oliver and then to give her a big power on top of that. It doesn't work.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

I bet there's no time break bw 14 and 15. At the debate it either comes out publicly or Ruve whispers it in his ear or BM shows up. Then it moves directly into the spawn's been taken, there's not a lot of time for a full breakup, so that'll happen mostly in 15. Funsies!

 

God this show. I'd be so much more okay with the paralysis and death and crap if not for the BMD, because that taints every O/F moment to me, and bc all this crap won't make them stronger together BECAUSE of the internal issue of the lying. I just really really wish that either that stupid storyline never came up again or it turned out she really did miscarry/have an abortion and it was just about getting Oliver and Felicity to talk about the future or whatever. Or I guess I wish he'd told the truth, but I so don't want a kid on this show so I'd rather he just not be Oliver's kid.

 

I feel like it coming to a head this quickly means maybe he'll have been visiting them. Otherwise I don't see how any of the villains could possibly know. Only Oliver, BM, and Barry know. BM's kept the secret for 10 years, including during huge Queen press when, if she'd pulled a Lewinsky and told a friend, the friend would have spilled it already. I have to imagine BM didn't put Oliver's name on the birth certificate or it would have come out years before. So I'm going to guess they'll allude to him visiting them.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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(edited)

Not sure i understand completely since that entire exchange could be read in 2 ways.

The answer seems a bit ambiguous as well. She clearly implies that she hates "evil story steve" so his answer that 415 is the one for her would imply it's an Olicity episode, no?

However, everyone seems to assume the opposite and that 415 is of the "evil story steve" variety

Edited by Morrigan2575
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calliope1975

calliope1975

4.15 is probably both the break up and the flashback poppy sex?

 

That makes me want to tune in. To be honest, I can guarantee I wouldn't notice anything happening in the flashbacks, though. Do we have an air date? Are we skipping any weeks soon?

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