Spoiler Discussion Thread

[AyChihuahua]

I don't think the nantes fixed anything. They either delivered the meds directly to the blood clot or they shrunk the clot out of existence. If Felicity has an injury she needs something that Latches on to correct damage or even something that can do some kind of miracle surgery. Nanites could play a part but they are probably so last year.

Maybe she can take what Star labs learned from Barry's quick healing and find a miracle that way.

Hee!  [said in Valley Girl voice]: OMG, those miraculous blood clot-busting nanites are SO last year! I need my impossibly amazing miraculous cure to be au courant!

[calliope1975]

Not sure why she has to be out of a wheelchair to break up with him?  Wheelchair users are perfectly capable of breaking up with someone. She can just roll out the door.

Oh yes, she can and most likely break up with Oliver regardless of her mobility, but I want her to physically walk away from him. Mostly for the visual.

If Dig is the one who finds out about the kid and tells Oliver he made the right decision with his secret keeping, that's one more blow to Felicity. I don't think TIIC will see it as such, but I would count that as a shitty friend thing for Dig to do.

[dtissagirl]

The evil nanites on Stargate Atlantis cured anything, BamBam can borrow them, he knows people there.

[AyChihuahua]

Oh yes, she can and most likely break up with Oliver regardless of her mobility, but I want her to physically walk away from him. Mostly for the visual.

If Dig is the one who finds out about the kid and tells Oliver he made the right decision with his secret keeping, that's one more blow to Felicity. I don't think TIIC will see it as such, but I would count that as a shitty friend thing for Dig to do.

The only good option for the person who finds out and supports Oliver's decision is Malcolm Merlyn. Or I guess Darhk? Either of those two telling him he was right would be funny, and make him think again. Anyone else is both idiotic and a pretty shitty thing to do to Felicity. My guess for the [dis]honor, unfortch, is Mama Smoak. Digg did pick Oliver in the divorce last year, though, so he's also a likely candidate.

[calliope1975]

I picked Dig since he's headed to Central City and might find out from Barry while he's crossing over. I'd say that Dig would never tell Oliver keeping secrets is a good idea, but see: ditch Roy, he's a lost cause and jeez Felicity, it is so hard for Oliver since he dumped you, you should be more sensitive of his feelings. In short, they've used Dig in ways I would never agree is in character.

I hope it's Merlyn, but it's more likely Mama Smoak. Either way, poor Felicity.

[Ann Mack]

Oh yes, she can and most likely break up with Oliver regardless of her mobility, but I want her to physically walk away from him. Mostly for the visual.

If Dig is the one who finds out about the kid and tells Oliver he made the right decision with his secret keeping, that's one more blow to Felicity. I don't think TIIC will see it as such, but I would count that as a shitty friend thing for Dig to do.

But this is what the writers do. They pick the more likable characters and have them act completely OOC (in this case shitty) to sell a plot point because (I'm only assuming) they think the fans will be more forgiving of a character they like doing something OOC vice one they really don't care too much about. I'm also assuming they may think the backlash might not be as severe if again a likable character delivers their lazily written for drama effect angst heavy lines of BS (again JMO).

 

Either way having anyone side with Oliver for this stupid story line is going to be hard to watch I do believe that's why Marc was so quick to drag Stephen into the whole "me and Stephen worked hard.... (emphasis on "Stephen")' when he started to get criticism and backlash for the whole BM story line from the beginning. I just hope once the story comes into the light they handle it quickly and then bury it back in the darkness where it belongs and never let it see light EVER again.

Edited January 8, 2016 by Ann Mack

[Morena]

and this picture. It is from 4x14? various events in the same episode. the first debate and then a party hat may or may not be linked on the campaign; or a party first and then we will see the debate? what is the sequence of events?

 

[Morrigan2575]

Oh I don't know, looks to me like this is Oliver's story, not Felicity's at all! /sarcasm

J/K I know the writers aren't responsible for the episode synopses, so I'll assume that's just...an oversight on the part of whoever does write them, and that Felicity will be centered in her own story.

I wouldn't read too much into it they're trying to keep the Felicity in a wheelchair a secret.

[Guest]

Yeah, I get why they wrote 'Oliver has to learn a new way of life' because they're still trying to hide the fact that Felicity is alive. So some viewers will think 'GASP! Felicity dies and Oliver has to learn how to live without her gasp!' because some are gullible like that. 

[Morrigan2575]

Oh yeah, I didn't even think about that. You're right, they could be trying to hide that Felicity survives.

[foreverevolving]

Yeah, I get why they wrote 'Oliver has to learn a new way of life' because they're still trying to hide the fact that Felicity is alive. So some viewers will think 'GASP! Felicity dies and Oliver has to learn how to live without her gasp!' because some are gullible like that. 

 I think the word you wanted to use was stupid, because only stupid people (or super young viewers) actually believe that Felicity will die..

It's stupid like trying to hide Oliver "death" last year. I'd roll my eyes at that description but they my get stuck at that position.

[Primal Slayer]

It is nice to know that TA is taking precautions this time around and have Black Canary keep watch.

Even though she is in a wheelchair, Felicity still looks good as hell.

Edited January 8, 2016 by Primal Slayer

[apinknightmare]

 I think the word you wanted to use was stupid, because only stupid people (or super young viewers) actually believe that Felicity will die.

 

I don't think that's true. I think casual viewers are probably really easily persuaded because they don't pay super close attention to things like we do. They know they love Felicity, but I don't think they give it much thought beyond that, so to them it's possible. My boss is a casual viewer, and she's worried Felicity's the one in the grave. It wasn't until I reminded her that the grave scene is still 3-4 months out that she even remembered that.

[kismet]

I don't like wheelchair scenarios. Because it means just so much more than not being able to walk. But I don't see that as something these people know how to do tastefully. And the character was often considered by people to be a weak link (a person who cannot fight and is not a hero) Now she really cannot even get up anymore and needs help. Because it takes a while to get used to living life in a wheel chair. It takes physical therapy to gain muscle to use your arms more, moving yourself etc.. She wouldn't be able to do it all immediately herself. Furthermore there is the emotional aspect which often leads people to become depressed at first and close themselves off from friends and family.

So to just put her in the wheelchair because of the comics and then to get her out of it because Curtis needs to become more relevant is just not really what I am looking forward to. Then again it is Tv and I shouldn't look at it too seriously. I just hate that they make her so immensely vulnerable on all levels.

I feel your pain... I made a similar rant about it a month or so ago. I know its a TV show, so I shouldn't expect much. But being a wheelchair is a serious problem that requires sensitivity. I wonder if these writers ever tried to get around in a wheelchair even for a half a day to see what it was like. I had to try it once for a class and it was not easy at all. It is a complete mental, physical & emotional devastation. It doesn't matter if they know they are gonna get her out of it in a few episodes, for the eps where it is her life, they should be sensitive about it and I just don't see that happening. Because it is only a plot point for them. So it will be what it will be, but I can honestly say I am not pleased that the writers decided to take this route. Hopefully they will surprise me.

[kismet]

If they do its lazy writing for sure. About who's in the grave a friend of mine speculated that it could be Mama Smoak in the grave. He elaborated that Felicity is the only main cast member who hasn't lost or "Lost" a true loved one yet. And with these writers it could be her turn.

I could see the writers defending their choice of putting MamaSmoak in the grave by that thinking. I do not agree with their choice or want it, but I can see the logic or support behind the choice.

 

Frankly, MamaSmoak is way too fun and layered a guest star that they would be dumb to put her in the grave... But at this point, I think they are scrambling to try to get out of their someone must be in the grave. I think they are looking for an easy out and Donna & Nyssa seem like easy options that fulfills their grave promise & let's them keep their major characters. Because when have these writers ever lived up to their potential? The more they set themselves up, the more they are likely to fail. It's when they are not trying that they stumble upon gold.

[Guest]

 I think the word you wanted to use was stupid, because only stupid people (or super young viewers) actually believe that Felicity will die..

It's stupid like trying to hide Oliver "death" last year. I'd roll my eyes at that description but they my get stuck at that position.

 

No, I meant gullible. I agree it was stupid believing that Oliver could die last year because he's the lead of the show. But Felicity's not the lead and people die all the time on the show, particularly people Oliver loves so it's not out of the realm of possibility. I know plenty of people who really do think she's dead. And when you point out that the grave scene doesn't happen for another 3 months, they still think she'll die eventually. 

Edited January 8, 2016 by Guest

[jay741982]

No, I meant gullible. I agree it was stupid believing that Oliver could die last year because he's the lead of the show. But Felicity's not the lead and people die all the time on the show, particularly people Oliver loves so it's not out of the realm of possibility. I know plenty of people who really do think she's dead. And when you point out that the grave scene doesn't happen for another 3 months, they still think she'll die eventually.

Cause those people want her to die or think Olicity is too good to be true as Endgame Couple and that the writers will kill her off to go with Laurviver again(I admit I have my fears of this)

[kismet]

I really love ARROW, and I don't want to have to quit the show or wait to watch it on DVD, so I really hope they find a good way to resolve this paralysis story. I am still hoping for a spinal cord injury that results in only temporary paralysis. This way I don't have to suffer through some ridiculous tv/comicy/made up fix. It also would spare me them using tech in an unrealistic way when there are so many ways tech is being used & discovered to help the paralyzed population. I sincerely lost a lot of respect for the show with the whole Nanites thing, it caused a big rage moment for me. If I was choosing things I hated most about RP, his nanite invention plot is actually higher on my list than RP stalking & pretty womaning FS.

 

Perhaps, working in healthcare and having to help people with devastating neuro conditions makes me a little over sensitive. But the miseryPorn on this show should at least try to be sensitive to the problems it uses for plot purposes.

 

My ideal scenario would be that FS has a spinal cord injury that leaves her temporarily paralyzed or another medical injury that makes her temporarily wheelchair bound. But having to live in that chair for a few weeks or months while her body heals inspires her to make a discovery that helps other people that were not as fortunate in their injuries. That way me as an audience member can have my cake and eat it too. I can see EBR & SA nail the emotional scenes. But I won't have to fanwank miraculous medical discoveries that are created by some random writers in the room whom probably have never had to experience a tragedy like being stuck in a wheelchair and have probably not bothered to research what being in a wheelchair means for people or how people are actually working to help the disabled population.

[apinknightmare]

Not to be a downer, but I can't think of a single sensitive issue that this show has given its just due to. With the exception of Oliver on occasion, everything that happens to these people happens for plot purposes only. Whether it's death, addiction, PTSD (with Deadshot and his family), you name it. Felicity being paralyzed probably isn't going to be any different - it's going to be about the plotty plot, something that helps them get from point A to point B, and if I had to put money on it, because it's a) a television show, b) not a medical drama, and c) about superheroes, I would say it's not going to be even remotely realistic, and will be solved by some completely impossible technology.

Edited January 9, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Morrigan2575]

I would like that but, it doesn't sound dramatic enough for this show.

[Guest]

I just noticed it mentions Shadowspire in that episode description but isn't that the organization Oliver is with on the island in flashback? 

Edited January 9, 2016 by Guest

[Morrigan2575]

Yes it is. I wonder if Conklin or Reiter will end up being Andy/Diggle's old enemy? Or is the timeline too off for that?

[jay741982]

I just noticed it mentions Shadowspire in that episode description but isn't that the organization Oliver is with on the island in flashback?

It is!

[hogwash]

Hey, no Laurel arc after the midseason! Thanks LOT!

[EmilyBettFan]

Hey, no Laurel arc after the midseason! Thanks LOT!

Thank God for this. She's had one too many for my liking and a lot of other people's also.

[statsgirl]

You mean there is going to be an actual point to those flashbacks? Consider me stunned.

 

Maybe Felicity's wheelchair is going to have turbo jets and she can blast out of there when he leaves Oliver.  (Although I still don't think she will actually break up with him, just want some time apart.)  Is the PT building repaired yet?  Hopefully there are some executive apartments added to the top floors so she can stay there.

wonder how far apart these 2 photos were shot because her hair is completely different, and did they add extensions to her hair as well?

 

 

I think it's the same scene but in the top one, she's got a heavy winter coat over her white one. 

Hair normally grows at the rate of 1/2 inch per month and it's been 8 months since she got it cut.

 

.

I'm of the opposite mind, I'd rather Felicity came up with the idea/software and went to Curtis for the hardware development.  Then I can see her using the "unproven" tech on herself in a risky move.  Unfortunately, I fear that it's pretty much going to be all Curtis as far as idea/software/hardware and Felicity only gets involved when it comes to the risky move.  

 

If I'm lucky they'll do something along the lines of Curtis developing tech for a different purpose but, Felicity figures out a way to alter his existing tech to "fix" herself.

Early doctors used to experiment on themselves. It would be awesome if Felicity did that.

 

The writers let Felicity fix the problems Ray was having last season with his suit last season but Curtis seems to be the golden boy this season so my fingers are really crossed that they will let Felicity have some input into fixing her own problems.

Edited January 9, 2016 by statsgirl

[lemotomato]

Not to be a downer, but I can't think of a single sensitive issue that this show has given its just due to. With the exception of Oliver on occasion, everything that happens to these people happens for plot purposes only. Whether it's death, addiction, PTSD (with Deadshot and his family), you name it. Felicity being paralyzed probably isn't going to be any different - it's going to be about the plotty plot, something that helps them get from point A to point B, and if I had to put money on it, because it's a) a television show, b) not a medical drama, and c) about superheroes, I would say it's not going to be even remotely realistic, and will be solved by some completely impossible technology.

Adding to your examples: this is the same show that forced a lesbian and a straight man to get married. And then its writers tweeted about what their 'ship name should be. Sensitivity-- or even awareness-- is not their strong point.

Edited January 9, 2016 by lemotomato

[SleepDeprived]

Yes it is. I wonder if Conklin or Reiter will end up being Andy/Diggle's old enemy? Or is the timeline too off for that?

 

Did they (in the show or in interviews) actually mention that Reiter's organization is called Shadowspire in the flashbacks or are we assuming it is since that's who Reiter's connected to in the comics? Like, probably, 95% of the audience, I barely pay attention to the flashbacks so I've zero recollection at all who they are.

 

I kinda think Reiter might die in the flashbacks after whatever mystical thing he's been looking for backfires, thanks to Oliver's tattoo, maybe? Out of the two of them, Conklin is more likely the one to survive 'cause he'll probably run the moment the mystical voodoo gets too weird and end up taking over Shadowspire's illegal dealings with Reiter out of the way.

[kismet]

Not to be a downer, but I can't think of a single sensitive issue that this show has given its just due to. With the exception of Oliver on occasion, everything that happens to these people happens for plot purposes only. Whether it's death, addiction, PTSD (with Deadshot and his family), you name it. Felicity being paralyzed probably isn't going to be any different - it's going to be about the plotty plot, something that helps them get from point A to point B, and if I had to put money on it, because it's a) a television show, b) not a medical drama, and c) about superheroes, I would say it's not going to be even remotely realistic, and will be solved by some completely impossible technology.

You're probably right, I think I've just am beginning to hit my limit. It also doesn't help that at least the show tried to be realistic in s1, which is what hooked me in the first place. Now its not even close to being realistic, the problem is they haven't pushed it enough into the unrealistic glossy world of superhero TV or melodramatic soap opera. It needs to commit to something, instead it's becoming a half-assed poorly plotted show that prides itself on being so amazing, when its just a run of the mill predictable show that is beginning to show its age with every predictable turn of event. So there Arrow writers. But I'm veering off into a bitterness rant. So I apologize.

[Morrigan2575]

Did they (in the show or in interviews) actually mention that Reiter's organization is called Shadowspire in the flashbacks or are we assuming it is since that's who Reiter's connected to in the comics? Like, probably, 95% of the audience, I barely pay attention to the flashbacks so I've zero recollection at all who they are.

I kinda think Reiter might die in the flashbacks after whatever mystical thing he's been looking for backfires, thanks to Oliver's tattoo, maybe? Out of the two of them, Conklin is more likely the one to survive 'cause he'll probably run the moment the mystical voodoo gets too weird and end up taking over Shadowspire's illegal dealings with Reiter out of the way.

I don't pay much attention to the flashbacks so I have no idea if they've been named 'in show'. The organization was called Shadowspire in casting announcements

[Chaser]

There are flashbacks?

[chaos is welcome]

Snort.this thread is always comedy gold. Honestly, they are so terrible. I miss alade. And dead whatever romance they are probably going to give us because I have seen zero chemistry. I miss shado too. Basically I miss a whole bunch about s 1 & 2b. Sigh.

Edited January 9, 2016 by chaos is welcome

[tarotx]

I don't pay enough attention to Flashbacks but MG said "We were attracted to an organization that actually in the comics had been associated with Deathstroke called Shadowspire. In the comics, Baron Reiter became associated with Shadowspire.”

 

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/07/22/arrow-season-4-baron-reiter-blitzkrieg

[way2interested]

Completely forgot about the Shadowspire-flashback connection, so, wow, this actually made me more interested in 411 than I was before. I just wonder now why Diggle is choosing to all of the sudden trust Andy now. I get that maybe he needs Andy on this specific mission, but it seems strange to me that he would even risk it at this point. Maybe something happens between them in 410? I did have a feeling that they would hopefully have some form of discussion since Diggle might want all of the information about Darhk he could get to help Oliver with his revenge mission.

[bijoux]

and this picture. It is from 4x14? various events in the same episode. the first debate and then a party hat may or may not be linked on the campaign; or a party first and then we will see the debate? what is the sequence of events?

 

The picture is from 4x14. I don' have a clue about the sequence of events, though.

[Velocity23]

 

I don't normally comment on spoilers, but an upcoming episode features a Felicity HALLUCINATION. Make of that what you will. @EmilyBett

 

https://twitter.com/mguggenheim/status/685861903969554432

 

[Belinea]

So why is he even commenting on spoilers? Is he done pretending she died? Does anyone at this point still believe she won't be in the wheelchair?

[Guest]

LOL. MG still trying to sell that grave death.

[Velocity23]

I am more interested what got Geoff so excited. He hasnt said much about Arrow in a long time.

[Guest]

Does Felicity hallucinate or does Oliver hallucinate that she's fine?

 

Also, I wonder if this is the scene that got the special FX guy all excited to film or whatever. 

 

And Geoff Johns retweeting just makes me think it's comic book/Oracle related which I don't want but whatever. 

Edited January 9, 2016 by Guest

[Velocity23]

Didnt Geoff Johns create the character of Wendy/Proxy?

[apinknightmare]

Gonna be real disappointed if the visual effect is some kind of hallucination and not the beginnings of a souper special bionic leg prototype or spine healing magic or something.

Edited January 9, 2016 by apinknightmare

[tangerine95]

So this means that y2john person who is most likely canadagraphs does get spoilers from set.He also said she's having hallucinations when he said she's in a wheelchair for sure a while ago on imdb.I hope that scene in 4.11 is tech related too.

[Guest]

Ugh, she's probably going to hallucinate that she can walk and she's totally fine. Heartbreaking. I wonder if that's how they'll show us how Felicity really feels about her injury while she puts on a 'front' of being fine and powering through. With her dressed like she's going back to work in 411 or 412 (can't remember what episode the bts pictures were from) it sounds likely. Or maybe I'm expecting too much.

Edited January 9, 2016 by Guest

[Ann Mack]

I guess it might be too early for her to hallucinate walking down the aisle in her wedding dress to Oliver since she'll be in a wheelchair and all. That's the first thing I thought of. Then she'll quietly be jolted out of her hallucination and bought back to reality when she hears Curtis voice in the distance talking about new ways they can use the technology they're working on.

 

Hey everything is a toss up for me right now with this story line. 

[Chaser]

My first thought was her having some type of near-death-out-of-body-experience in 4x10. It would tie into what EBR said about her not being on this planet.  

 

Re: Geoff Johns. That's interesting. I'm wondering if he had some input in the decision to make Felicity whatever they are making her.

[wonderwall]

If this means that the show is going to focus on Felicity's feelings regarding the whole wheelchair thing then I'm all for it. It could be a good thing that further defines and cements her character.

I was only ever worried because I was afraid that the show would make Felicity's injury about how oliver feels.

I have Low expectations but I desperately hope they do this arc justice

[Chaser]

Didnt Geoff Johns create the character of Wendy/Proxy?

I would take Proxy over Oracle any day. I like the idea of them creating a hybrid of lesser known characters (Felicity/Wendi) and allowing Arrow to create something unique.

[chaos is welcome]

Maybe geoff is excited bc everyone loves felicity, him included. It's got to be great to solidly tie the fan favorite to a comic book character when you are in the comic business. He's probably seeing $$$ $igns.

I imagine they will parallel felicity near death experience with oliver's hallucinations from the scientist (loved that scene)

Side note, I am obsessed with mr "you know I don't dance" Oliver freaking/guilt tripping that dancing with felicity is no longer able to dance. Not gonna get it, but I still want it.

Edited January 9, 2016 by chaos is welcome

[Ann Mack]

I'm really looking forward to Emily acting the hell out of this story arc!