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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

Spoiler Discussion Thread

Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

True, but they'd have to show FS having some inclination, 

 

Literally all they'd need to do is show that she (or she and Oliver) already knows in this ep, or at some point during The Flash crossover. It would take 20 seconds.

 

Although I don't think she's pregnant, and probably just doesn't like whiskey or whatever in the hell Oliver's drinking.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)

DD is a moron, isn't he? Why didn't he just come to town and run for mayor himself? The people of Starling City are morons, too - they would've voted for him. Seems easier than just killing everyone who tries, hoping the post remains empty forever. 

Edited by apinknightmare
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kismet

kismet

Literally all they'd need to do is show that she (or she and Oliver) already knows in this ep, or at some point during The Flash crossover. It would take 20 seconds.

 

Although I don't think she's pregnant, and probably just doesn't like whiskey or whatever in the hell Oliver's drinking.

Yes I was agreeing with u. If shes pregnant, they will likely drop another hint. Because FS has to know she is pregnant, if she is choosing water over an alcoholic beverage on purpose. A person doesn't not drink unless there is a reason. I'd believe the she doesn't like whiskey as a more valid reason then an unknown pregnancy. Most people I knew drank during the first weeks of their pregnancy because they had no clue they were pregnant. Only the ones who were actively trying to get pregnant were the ones that preemptively stopped drinking. And I don't think O/F are actively trying to have a baby.

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calliope1975

calliope1975

Ugh. Do not want baby plot right now, and I never want newly discovered kid plot. But I can't have nice things so I know we're getting the latter. I figure Felicity is drinking straight up vodka, as you do. 

 

Unrelated side note - I'm watching a show where the main actress had a 3rd trimester miscarriage and she is super pregnant in the show, and I can no longer separate the actress from the character and can barely watch anymore. I feel horrible for the actress every time she appears and have no idea how they're going to resolve the story line since anyway they play it will seem cruel to the actress. Sorry, talk of miscarriages brings this to mind. 

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kismet

kismet

Why is the campaign so important they had to bring in a political strategist so early if OQ is running unopposed? Do they need a certain percentage to win? In my experience most people who run unopposed win because the few people who actually vote just vote whoever is running.

I appreciate the effort OQ & co are giving. But really seems like overkill at this point. I was they hadn't told me he was unopposed, sorta knocked the importance & realism of the campaign for me.

Agree with those that said DD should had just run to mayor. But it would probably interfere with his plans. Man is to busy evil monologuing over criminals and vigilantes. He doesn't have time for silly posters & rally speeches. On a serious note, perhaps if he becomes public figure it could ruin his plans because people will come looking for him. He needs to remain in the shadows for his plan to work.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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(edited)

DD is a moron, isn't he? Why didn't he just come to town and run for mayor himself? The people of Starling City are morons, too - they would've voted for him. Seems easier than just killing everyone who tries, hoping the post remains empty forever.

They could have even had the same result with Oliver getting in the ring after Jessica dropped out of the race.

I don't get either the in or out of show logic on this one.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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tarotx

tarotx

(edited)

Oliver wants to "Unite" the city and bring hope. He needs someone who can guide him along the process. The more people voting for you gives you a claim to what some say is a mandate once in office.

Edited by tarotx
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looptab

looptab

Maybe DD meant unopposed figuratively? Not as in  putting someone to run against Oliver, but "opposing" him in other ways? He has left him alone up until now, he could start the threats and all. (This is based on my ignorance of politics, and English language about politics. Maybe run unopposed means one thing and one thing alone).

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

If DD ran for Mayor, then we'd just have the Galavan storyline from Gotham.

 

Regarding Felicity's objection to Oliver going undercover - her words and actions are always going to be perceived differently by different people.  If Oliver was the one who wanted to keep his public Oliver persona separate as a symbol of hope to the city and Felicity was the one urging him to go undercover with DD to help Diggle, then she'd get criticized for not caring enough about Oliver staying in the light. 

 

Like Angel12d, Felicity's "not even for John" also reminded me of when the Count captured Felicity and she told Oliver not to break his no-killing rule, "not for me".  She has always looked at the bigger picture in terms of Oliver's welfare and the greater good.

Edited by tv echo
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Maybe DD meant unopposed figuratively? Not as in  putting someone to run against Oliver, but "opposing" him in other ways? He has left him alone up until now, he could start the threats and all. (This is based on my ignorance of politics, and English language about politics. Maybe run unopposed means one thing and one thing alone).

 

I mean, he could've meant that he was going to put up some obstacles for Oliver, but given his desire to control the city, it still seems illogical to me that he didn't just run for mayor himself. 

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looptab

looptab

I mean, he could've meant that he was going to put up some obstacles for Oliver, but given his desire to control the city, it still seems illogical to me that he didn't just run for mayor himself. 

Oh, it's completely illogical. The only reason they didn't have DD as mayor or running for mayor was because they did it already with Blood in season 2.

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tarotx

tarotx

I think DD wants the people of Star to be low and hopeless. Running someone would be counter productive because a campaign is about bringing hope and promise? But I guess if he must he will...

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

 

It's so odd that he doesn't want to legally come back from the dead. I wonder if there's actually a reason for it, or if it's just gonna be an "I don't wanna" that will conveniently leave him able to time travel over to LoT with no one missing him in Star City.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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It's so odd that he doesn't want to legally come back from the dead. I wonder if there's actually a reason for it, or if it's just gonna be an "I don't wanna" that will conveniently leave him able to time travel over to LoT with no one missing him in Star City.

it's probably just a plot reason so they can send him gallivanting through time.

 

I liked that scene, it was cute

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KenyaJ

KenyaJ

(edited)

I tend to think IF there is something Felicity/baby related coming up it's more likely they have a pregnancy scare but that she isn't actually pregnant in 3x08. That could be a catalyst for an Oliver/Felicity convo about whether or not they both want kids, which I could see being a 'yes, but not right now' resolution. That might also reassure Oliver that they both do want the same things (something he may have doubted after the premier which could have caused him to pause his proposal plans) and then he decides to finally pop the question in 3x09.

 

This was my first thought when we heard about Oliver and Felicity's "emotional" storyline in 408. I'd much prefer a pregnancy scare to a miscarriage. Plus what's better than deciding you don't want kids right now than finding out, surprise! You already have a kid! 

 

On another note, I really like that Ray/Felicity scene. They're actually fun and watchable when the show isn't trying to sell them as some kind of 40s romance.

Edited by KenyaJ
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

 

 

We do something I don’t think anyone is going to anticipate. One of the biggest seismic changes we have ever done happens in the Arrow half of the crossover.

—  Marc Guggenheim on the Flarrow crossover event, TV Guide 11/23 - 12/6 issue

 

This does not give me good feelings. 

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Guest

Guest

No one's dying yet are they? Seems a bit soon. Not sure what it could be. An Arrow character moves to Flash?! I have no clue. The 'seismic changes' is throwing me.

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calliope1975

calliope1975

Yeah, but this is MG. His seismic changes may be a slight breeze. My hope is they're not planning on actually adding a kid to this show. Please no. Killing off QL is practically expected at this point. Bringing Andy back is lame but not unexpected. I need more spoilers to drop. 

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

(edited)

No one's dying yet are they? Seems a bit soon.

 

Isn't Hawkman dying? It's gotta be on the Arrow part of the crossover. And also why he isn't part of the LoT team: because he's dead, and they'll meet different reincarnations of him during the time travels.

Edited by dtissagirl
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Guest

Guest

(edited)

It's really hard to guess what the EP's mean because most viewers don't really pay any attention to spoilers or BTS videos, so will Oliver meeting his kid be unexpected to them? I think so. To us it's not because we've seen photos of filming and debated it endlessly. Same goes for Oliver proposing or Felicity getting hurt. We know it's coming but the larger audience doesn't.

 

So the question is - when MG talks about doing something people won't anticipate, is he talking about the general audience or is he talking about us head cases who follow everything about the show? Who knows at this point?!

 


Heartwrenching Olicity scenes coming up? ::sigh:: I guess it was too much to ask this show for more than 5 angst-free episodes.

 

I'm guessing that's about his kid but also when Felicity gets injured. I'm all for the heart wrenching scenes when she gets hurt tbh. I live for that. I think SA will KILL it. 

Edited by Guest
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

It's really hard to guess what the EP's mean because most viewers don't really pay any attention to spoilers or BTS videos, so will Oliver meeting his kid be unexpected to them? I think so. 

 

The only reason I kind of question that part of it is because they dangled that carrot previously. We know the mother is in Central City, and we know the kid is alive. It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone who watches, but maybe I'm wrong about that, haha.

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Guest

Guest

The only reason I kind of question that part of it is because they dangled that carrot previously. We know the mother is in Central City, and we know the kid is alive. It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone who watches, but maybe I'm wrong about that, haha.

 

I don't know actually. We had one hint of it in last year's crossover and then absolutely nothing. I can't imagine most viewers will be expecting baby mama and his kid to turn up. When it happens they'll probably be 'Oh! Of course!' but I can't see them anticipating it tbh.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I don't know actually. We had one hint of it in last year's crossover and then absolutely nothing. I can't imagine most viewers will be expecting baby mama and his kid to turn up. When it happens they'll probably be 'Oh! Of course!' but I can't see them anticipating it tbh.

 

Yeah, maybe. I hope that's it. I thought maybe Oliver's campaign strategist would find out about it, but I guess if it happens on the Arrow portion of the crossover (which is supposed to take place in Central City, right?) then Oliver must see her with the kid or something? 

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Guest

Guest

(edited)

Yeah, maybe. I hope that's it. I thought maybe Oliver's campaign strategist would find out about it, but I guess if it happens on the Arrow portion of the crossover (which is supposed to take place in Central City, right?) then Oliver must see her with the kid or something? 

 

I mean, I'm not saying MG is talking about the kid reveal specifically. I just used that as an example. But it does make me question what part of the audience he's talking to because, as I said, we pretty much know most of what's going to happen. The general audience doesn't.

 

I, too, thought Alex would find out about the kid. It makes sense that he would too because they usually dig for dirt before a political campaign so there are no surprises for the press to pick up on. That was a whole plot point with Moira's campaign and trying to bury news about Thea's paternity. So it would be weird if they didn't do the same thing here. But who knows? It doesn't help that we're not sure when the baby mama scenes are happening. 

Edited by Guest
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bijoux

bijoux

Malcolm in a suit at Laurel's place actually had me worried for a moment that he would just walz into the party. I was relieved when I remembered the dresscode seems to be tux. Though I wouldn't call it unimaginable if he did.

And I'm definitely going with Dig being against Oliver's infiltration plan if he's brought in on it.

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GreatAtBoats

GreatAtBoats

Isn't Hawkman dying? It's gotta be on the Arrow part of the crossover. And also why he isn't part of the LoT team: because he's dead, and they'll meet different reincarnations of him during the time travels.

The scene people think might be Hawkman's funeral was filmed for an episode of LOT. The third or fourth, IIRC.

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bijoux

bijoux

Anyone else paying special attention to the directing on this episode?

 

I wasn't feeling the action shots they showed in the Producers Preview.

I didn't pay attention to the way things were shot, but Thea hitting that ghost when he was down looks relly underwhelming.
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Guest

Guest

I haven't watched any clips or promos as usual but the stunts haven't been impressive for a long time so I don't know why Bam directing will make any difference. Hope he proves me wrong though. 

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kismet

kismet

No one's dying yet are they? Seems a bit soon. Not sure what it could be. An Arrow character moves to Flash?! I have no clue. The 'seismic changes' is throwing me.

Seismic changes to me sound like something related to nature. I bet they will find whatever means they need to travel through time on the Arrow portion. They will find the portal or the vortex or ripple in time - whatever they call it. It will be literally seismic & metaphorically seismic because it will introduce another non-reality based power to Arrow.

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bijoux

bijoux

Darhk mentions Oliver's project of cleaning up the bay. So this has to be the episode where the gang and extras are actually there to help clean it and talk to some press. It feels very important since it's outside during the day. And there's the speech Oliver gives in the stills.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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Darhk mentions Oliver's project of cleaning up the bay. So this has to be the episode where the gang and extras are actually there to help clean it and talk to some press. It feels very important since it's outside during the day. And there's the speech Oliver gives in the stills.

Those pictures were taken on 10/21, they were filming 409 at that point.

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bijoux

bijoux

Those pictures were taken on 10/21, they were filming 409 at that point.

Thanks. They seem to have a thing for bringing things up, then letting them lie for an episode. Oliver's candidacy, revelation about Andy's dealings, now the bay. There's probably more examples.

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statsgirl

statsgirl

I figure I got my character scenes fix in the last episode, this one for the action fans.

 

From the clip, I don't get the idea that DD is going to run someone else. His "then you'll no longer be running unopposed" seemed to be more sinister than outright candidate.

 

I apologize but I really liked that scene with Ray and Felicity.  When the writers aren't trying to force the relationship, they really are fun to watch.

 

It makes sense that Alex would be the one to find the kid in Central City, and would explain why it's now rather than the babymama telling Oliver after Moira died.

 

 

Unrelated side note - I'm watching a show where the main actress had a 3rd trimester miscarriage and she is super pregnant in the show, and I can no longer separate the actress from the character and can barely watch anymore. I feel horrible for the actress every time she appears and have no idea how they're going to resolve the story line since anyway they play it will seem cruel to the actress. Sorry, talk of miscarriages brings this to mind. 

That's really sad. 

Usually it's the other way around, that the actress stays pregnant but the character loses the baby (because babies drag a show down).  Catrina Scorsone on Private Practice for example had to play Amelia carrying a baby without a brain while she was pregnant with her first child.

 

Until I hear differently, I'm going to assume that Felicity is drinking a gin and tonic. Because you never know when those mosquitoes will hit.

 

That would be much darker than last season, which everyone complained was too dark.  I am positive they are not going there.  I mean think about it, The Flash does a King Kong ripoff and has a landshark, while Arrow has the main couple lose a wanted pregnancy?  Nah.

I don't want it, but I think they could do it positively if they show Oliver and Felicity supporting each other through it, which is something that so far seems to be a theme this season (knock wood).  But not if it means Felicity couldn't have another child.

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SleepDeprived

SleepDeprived

Anyone else paying special attention to the directing on this episode?

 

I wasn't feeling the action shots they showed in the Producers Preview.

 

I wasn't paying special attention but I did notice that the action scenes seemed particularly shaky in that Producer's Preview. I'm guessing Bamford was trying to go for something like a RPG-first person viewpoint in some of those shots? Might have to take some Dramamine first before watching tonight if he's doing that shaky cam thing. I hate that style so much.

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Guest
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