AyChihuahua November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 The problem with every Tommy spec is that the actor is a regular on another show that films pretty far away. He could commute, but I don't think he could also be a regular on Arrow, plus his main show would have to agree, etc. I don't want any more shocking parental reveals. The only DD-as-parent thing I can see at all, since we're going to hear about DD in the 1970s, is that MAYBE he's Donna's dad. He could also have been a parent in the past and the kid died or it could be no biggie, or both (see, e.g., RAG, who had family at one point he didn't care much about ("Oh, I love them so; oh, I probably killed them when I destroyed my hometown! Wah my manpain!" and also had a concubine and daughter he didn't care much about). If Felicity's father is a higher-up in HIVE, he has to have not kept track of her, right? Because if he has, and if he gives a crap about her, surely he would have told DD she's off-limits BEFORE telling DD to destroy Star[ling] City? Like you know your beloved daughter is a public figure in City A, you send your crazy evil henchman to destroy City A, but you don't tell him "B-t-dubs, no killing/torturing/kidnapping Felicity Smoak"? 1 Link to comment
tv echo November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 I kinda like the idea of DD as Malcolm's father. It sets up a Shakespearean tragedy, with father-son (DD-M), father-daughter (M-T), grandfather-granddaughter (DD-T), all trying to kill each other. Link to comment
apinknightmare November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 I'm sure that DD's kid will have been tragically murdered and that's what led him on his villainous path, etc. etc. 1 Link to comment
calliope1975 November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 (edited) I'm sure that DD's kid will have been tragically murdered and that's what led him on his villainous path, etc. etc. They have to keep the motivations consistent! Dead friends and family leads to villainy or heroics! Oliver - his dead list is lonnnnggg: Dad, Yao Fei, Shado, Sara x2, Tommy, Mom, Akio, Poppy (spec), who'd I miss? Diggle - Andy Felicity - Cooper (but that put her off the hacktivist path, this one doesn't work) Malcolm - Rebecca Roy - his 10 friends in the Undertaking Laurel - Sara (sure, I'll go with that /snort) Ray - Anna Curtis (eventually) - his brother Edited November 4, 2015 by calliope1975 Link to comment
dtissagirl November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 If Felicity isn't the one in the grave, then why would we be getting a hint of the flashforward storyline in 409 and maybe 410, which are the episodes with Donna Smoak? I am really fed up with the EPs feeding us either actual clues or misleading clues. It's because these aren't clues, or hints. You can't give out clues of who died if nobody died yet. They're all red herrings by design. And Felicity is really the only character they can use for this. Except for Diggle, maybe, but anyone else? Nobody will care enough to talk about it on the internets. 6 Link to comment
Belinea November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 I am already over it. If they hint at it again in 4x09 and 4x10, does that mean they now know who they will kill? Not that I believed that one way or the other. The problem is people are only afraid for Felicity and Digg. Yes it could be QL and that would be sad, but people wouldn't turn their backs. It isn't Laurel, the special one. It isn't Thea, she already has died last season. They only way they'd kill Felicity is if EBR wants to leave the show. I highly doubt that. And I also choose to believe they are not stupid enough to think that the show works without her because while they show can work without certain characters, I doubt it works without her. But you have to hand it to them, at the moment everyone is only worried about Felicity being dead in the future. And don't get me started on Diggle, I don't even want to consider that. 3 Link to comment
tv echo November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 (edited) Since some threads/posts were merged, I don't know if all of the older source citations are still accurate...SUMMARY OF ALL SPOILERS FOR 406 - 410:S4, Episode 6: Lost Souls [75th EPISODE OF SERIES]-- Production code: 406. Director: Antonio Negret. Airdate: Nov. 11, 2015.-- 406 synopsis: "Felicity (Emily Bett Rickards) is frantic when she learns that Ray (guest star Brandon Routh) is alive and being held by Damien Darhk (guest star Neal McDonough). Felicity’s guilt over not finding Ray sooner causes tension between her and Oliver (Stephen Amell). Meanwhile, Sara (guest star Caity Lotz) joins Laurel (Katie Cassidy), Thea (Willa Holland) and the team on a rescue mission for Ray. However, the effects of the Lazarus Pit take over and threaten to jeopardize the entire operation. Donna Smoak (guest star Charlotte Ross) returns to Star City. Antonio Negret directed the episode written by Beth Schwartz & Emilio Ortega Aldrich (#406). Original airdate 11/11/2015." -- Felicity learns Ray is alive and being held by Damien Darhk. (TV Guide synopsis, page 25 of Spoilers thread) -- Per MG, Billy Joel song to represent this episode would be "That's Not Her Style". (MG tumblr post, page 24 of Spoilers thread)-- 4x06 will answer the question of whether the explosion at Palmer Tech is on the same time line as Oliver & Felicity's journey. (MG tumblr post, page 19 of Spoilers thread) -- On whether Oliver will be insecure or bothered by Ray's return, MG: "Episode 406 – which is awesome, by the way – holds the answer to your questions." (MG tumblr response, page 22 of Spoilers thread) -- On how Ray's return affects Felicity's relationship with Oliver, WM: " Because of the way season three ended, we haven’t seen Felicity grieving the loss of Ray. Finding out that that loss isn’t what she thought it was, she’s going to be going through some pretty complicated emotions and they’re definitely going to have an impact on Oliver moving forward – though maybe not in the way everyone thinks. We really wanted to try to do it in a surprising, different way and Felicity is going to want to help out her friend and that’s no doubt going to create big complications for Oliver."(ETonline article, page 25 of Spoilers thread)-- This episode includes the Olicity kiss that appeared in the Arrow 2015 New York Comic-Con Sizzle Reel. (MG tumblr post, page 23 of Spoilers thread)-- Per MG, Olicity will kiss in this episode, and this episode contains his fave Olicity scene so far this season. Also, we will get to see Oliver/Felicity's bedroom in this episode. His fave Olicity quote in this episode is Felicity changing Oliver's name to "Chatty Cathy". (MG tumblr posts, page 24 of Spoilers thread)-- MG: “It’s so much fun to see Donna’s reaction to Oliver and Felicity being together. I would say that’s part of Donna’s charm; she’s a little bit like a Greek chorus. She’s the ultimate Olicity supporter - the ultimate Olicity ‘shipper.’ The episode where she returns is going to be really interesting because Donna is - let me put it this way: she has a surprising relationship with Oliver. Her interactions with Oliver are not what I think the audience is going to expect. And certainly not what Felicity expects.” (RottenTomatoes article, page 21 of Spoilers thread)-- Per SA, Oliver and Donna Smoak have an "excellent" dynamic now that Olicty is dating and were chatting during Olicity's road trip. SA: "I had always imagined that Oliver and [Donna] had been speaking in the time between [Oliver and Felicity] leaving together at the end of season 3 … and then returning … to the suburbs. I had always imagined that Oliver in his nice, easy-going state would have a dialogue with Donna Smoak, which was proven correct, and leads to some funny moments.” (AccessHollywood, Collider, ETonline, MTV and TVLine articles, page 24 of Spoilers thread, Kayti Burt tweet, page 23 of Spoilers thread, and Chris E. Hayner tweet, page 24 of Spoilers thread)-- When asked to describe in two words the interactions between Donna Smoak and Oliver, MG: "Felicity pissed." (MG tumblr post, page 24 of Spoilers thread)-- When asked if there will be a Queen & Smoak dinner (Oliver, Felicity, Thea and Donna), MG said: "406. ish." (MG tumblr post, page 24 of Spoilers thread)-- Curtis Holt has scenes with Oliver, Donna Smoak and Felicity in this episode. (CR and EK tweets, page 20 of Spoilers thread, and SA facebook video, page 613 of Spoiler Discussion thread)-- Per MG, Sara will be in this episode as well. (MG tumblr post, page 24 of Spoilers thread)-- Per MG, this episode is one of his "all-time favorite episodes. Something for everyone in that one." (MG tumblr post, page 24 of Spoilers thread) S4, Episode 7: Brotherhood-- Production code: 407. Director: James Bamford. Airdate: TBA. -- 407 synopsis: "Team Green Arrow’s ongoing battle with Damien Darhk (Neal McDonough) is complicated by a shocking revelation. Thea’s (Willa Holland) bloodlust returns and she loses control in front of Alex (guest star Parker Young). James Bamford directed the episode written by Speed Weed & Keto Shimizu (#407). Original airdate 11/18/2015." (SpoilerTV article, page 24 of Spoilers thread) -- A shocking revelation complicates Team Green Arrow's battle. (TV Guide synopsis, page 25 of Spoilers thread) -- Per MG, Billy Joel song to represent this episode would be "Honesty". (MG tumblr post, page 24 of Spoilers thread)-- Per SA, this episode "contains the most thorough, graphic and flowing stunt sequences in the history of the show." (SA tweet, page 24 of Spoilers thread)-- JBam said he focuses more on practical technique first rather than dance choreography when setting up his fight sequences. (Collider article, page 24 of Spoilers thread)-- JBam: "If any of you require heart medication, you should stock up before you watch episode 407 of #Arrow. It's intense. Boom." (JBam tweet, page 21 of Spoilers thread)-- Per SA, this episode used 200 extras. (SA tweet, page 21 of Spoilers thread)-- Some filming for this episode was done at Diggle's house. (JBam tweet, page 620 of Spoiler Discussion thread)-- Per MG, we'll see Oliver and Lyla's dynamic in this episode. (MG tumblr post, page 24 of Spoilers thread)-- Andy Diggle may be appearing in this episode. (DR and EB tweets, page 688 of Spoiler Discussion thread)-- Oliver's flashback love interest (played by ER) appears in this episode. (JBam and ER tweets, page 21 of Spoilers thread) S4, Episode 8: Legends of Yesterday-- Production code: 408. Director: Thor Freudenthal. Airdate: TBA. -- Per MG, Billy Joel song to represent this episode would be "Code of Silence". (MG tumblr post, page 24 of Spoilers thread)-- Per MG, the crossover will explain why Arrow and Flash were not chosen to be part of the LoT team. (MG tumblr post, page 19 of Spoilers thread)-- Hawkman (Falk Hentschel) will first appear on episode 408 of Arrow (before going to LoT). (DCLegendsTV article, page 20 of Spoilers thread)-- WM: "We're going to introduce some very cool characters in episode 408, one of whom will be Hawkman. This season, the crossover is going to be really the place where we launch Legends. It's going to be a very cool, exciting episode where we really see a couple members of the Legends team and their origin story - where they start and how they get launched into this universe." (Official "A Sneak Peek at Arrow Season 4" video, page 21 of Spoilers thread and page 622 of Spoiler Discussion thread)-- Dr. Aldus Boardman (Peter Francis James) will first appear in this episode (before going to LoT). (ComicBook article, page 619 of Spoiler Discussion thread)-- Vandal Savage (Casper Crump) will first appear on the Flash 208 crossover (before joining LoT). (CC tweet, page 620 of Spoiler Discussion thread) -- MG: "There’s a lot of things that are really cool about this year’s crossover, one of which is the fact that there really is a true 2-part story unlike last year where it was two interconnected episodes where each had their own beginning, middle, and end... This is a big two-part event, one single bad guy, and it will very clearly launch Legends Of Tomorrow. But at the same time what I think is a lot of fun about it is that it doesn’t feel like a backdoor pilot for Legends Of Tomorrow. It feels like an episode of Flash and then an episode of Arrow. It truly is a 2-hour Flash/Arrow event that just so happens to introduce us to some new characters who will be a big part of Legends Of Tomorrow." (Deadline article, page 25 of Spoilers thread) -- SA: “Last year was designed so that if you were a fan of one show or a fan of the other show, you could enjoy 108 of ‘Flash’ and 308 of ‘Arrow’ independent of one another... It’s not the case this year. If you put them back to back on one night, they would run like one two-hour episode of television... In fact, most of the ‘Flash’ episode takes place in Star City, and most of the ‘Arrow’ episode takes place in Central City. We have a common villain, which was not the case last year, and just in general, we’ve done an excellent job of weaving not just two shows, but three shows together.” (Zap2It article, page 23 of Spoilers thread, and Collider and MTV articles, page 24 of Spoilers thread)-- AK: “Just conceptually speaking, one of the ways we thought of these episodes, in sort of a macro sense, was that ‘The Flash’ episode this year plays more like an episode of ‘Arrow’ and the ‘Arrow’ episode plays more like an episode of ‘Flash.’ That’s part of the fun of these episodes. This year, both Arrow and The Flash are different, and I don’t just mean the characters themselves. Thea is on the team now. There are all sorts of different color combinations that are occurring.... We look back and thought that those ‘Flash’ and ‘Arrow’ episodes were the biggest things we’d ever done.. Now we have more heroes, more people with powers, more mouths to feed and bigger villains. It’s really exciting.” (Collider article, page 24 of Spoilers thread, and Zap2it article, page 23 of Spoilers thread)-- Per SA, while most of the crossover event has already been filmed, “there’s little pieces here and there to grab” before it’s officially wrapped. SA: “I think these crossover episodes standing together will probably be, in my mind, the pinnacle achievement for both shows... We shot a scene that had, like, nine superheroes in it... Nine people with either powers or super suits... It was an amazing thing to look at, to look out over the scene and see the world that has been built over the course of three-plus years." (Zap2It article, page 23 of Spoilers thread, and Collider and MTV articles, page 24 of Spoilers thread)-- Quentin is not part of the crossover episode (yet). (Collider article, page 24 of Spoilers thread)-- GG: “I will say Damien Darhk’s name for sure.” (MTV article, page 24 of Spoilers thread)-- Per DP, although she and KC (Laurel) wouldn’t get any one-on-one character interaction in this crossover, there will be some Caitlin and Felicity screen time: “You do get to see a little bit more interaction between Caitlin and Felicity. Just little tiny bits of it. Those crossovers, it’s a lot to pack into a 45-minute-ish episode.” (MTV article, page 24 of Spoilers thread)-- Iris West (CP) won’t be making much an appearance in the crossover storyline. CP: “[iris] is not involved at all in the crossovers that we have explored thus far. That doesn’t mean we’ll never see that. We know that crossovers have been extremely popular in our universe on the CW, so I’m sure we’ll have more. But I will say, so far, in this season, she does not appear in any of the crossovers in a large way.” (MTV article, page 24 of Spoilers thread)-- When asked if Felicity and Diggle get to meet Hawkgirl and Hawkman, MG responded: ":)". (MG tumblr post, page 24 of Spoilers thread)-- WM: "Oliver will have an emotional and surprising storyline with Felicity in 408 that will have huge repercussions the rest of the season." (TheWrap article, page 25 of Spoilers thread)-- Per MG, the first non-Oliver flashback will be in 4x08. (Unidentified video of media interview with MG and WM at SDCC 2015, page 161 of Behind the Mask thread, and TVLine article, page 22 of Spoilers thread) S4, Episode 9: Dark Waters-- Production code: 409. Director: John Behring. Airdate: TBA. (MG tweet, page 23 of Spoilers thread)-- Per MG, Billy Joel song to represent this episode would be "All My Life". (MG tumblr post, page 24 of Spoilers thread)-- Short BTS video for 409 of Oliver proposing to Felicity in front of a bunch of supporters of Oliver at a Mayoral Candidate rally posted. (Canadagraphs article, page 25 of Spoilers thread)-- Donna Smoak will appear in this episode. (CR tweet, page 24 of Spoilers thread, and TVLine article, page 21 of Spoilers thread)-- Curtis (EK) will appear in this episode. (Pic posted in CR tweet, page 24 of Spoilers thread)-- Cast pics with CR posted. (CR tweet, page 24 of Spoilers thread)-- 409 behind-the-scene pics posted. (TVLine instagram, page 24 of Spoilers thread)-- Per MG, there will be an Olicity Christmas/Hanukkah kiss. (MG tumblr post, page 24 of Spoilers thread)-- As for any possible meeting of Donna and Quentin, PB joked as he came away from filming the fall finale, “Do I have lipstick on my cheek? [Then again] it’s a Christmas episode, so of course, everybody’s kissing everybody.” (TVLine article, page 24 of Spoilers thread)-- On the 401 flashforward storyline, WM: "We will see a little bit, a hint of it in 409 and possibly 410. And then, towards the end of the season, it will all be revealed." (TheWrap article, page 25 of Spoilers thread)-- SA was filming with a young boy and a hot woman (baby Mama?) in front of a house, believed to be for Episode 9 or 10. (Fan tweets, page 22 of Spoilers thread) S4, Episode 10: Blood Debts-- Production code: 410. Director: Jesse Warn. Airdate: TBA. (MG tweet, page 25 of Spoilers thread)-- Donna Smoak will appear in this episode. (CR tweet, page 24 of Spoilers thread, and TVLine article, page 21 of Spoilers thread)-- It sounds like there will be a big confrontation between DD (NM) and Malcolm (JB) in 410. (GreenArrowTV tweet, page 24 of Spoilers thread)-- On the 401 flashforward storyline, WM: "We will see a little bit, a hint of it in 409 and possibly 410. And then, towards the end of the season, it will all be revealed." (TheWrap article, page 25 of Spoilers thread) Edited November 6, 2015 by tv echo 5 Link to comment
lemotomato November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 I'm angry at the stupid grave plot point because I believed MG when he said they were going to go as long as possible to avoid damsel-ing Felicity just because she's the love interest. And yet here they are, apparently spending the whole season threatening/implying they're going to kill her off. 4 Link to comment
Morrigan2575 November 4, 2015 Author Share November 4, 2015 I'm angry at the stupid grave plot point because I believed MG when he said they were going to go as long as possible to avoid damsel-ing Felicity just because she's the love interest. And yet here they are, apparently spending the whole season threatening/implying they're going to kill her off.Since she's almost certainly NOT the person in the grave I don't see the comparison. Felicity will most likely be damseled in 409 but that is fairly long without making her a DiD. Then again x09 episodes almost always have Oliver in mortal danger or injured, so maybe he's the one that's in the hospital, not Felicity. 2 Link to comment
tv echo November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 (edited) From the EW article about tonight's episode (in the Spoilers thread): “It makes for a really cool scene between him and Laurel,” Mericle continues. “It interestingly puts their friendship and their relationship on a completely different footing for the rest of the season, which we actually are really excited about.” Would this be considered ship-baiting? Edited November 4, 2015 by tv echo Link to comment
apinknightmare November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 This is an EW interview with WM about tonight's episode, 405 (since entire plot has been spoiled in Spoiler Discussion Thread, do WM's comments match up to what happened in episode?)... Well, she certainly oversold a lot of it (which isn't surprising). Oliver's reaction was surprising-he was pretty mellow about finding out Sara was alive. Oliver and Laurel decide to be friends (how could she say no to the man who helped save her sister's soul?!!?), and the actual retrieving of Sara's soul is fairy easy and definitely cheesy. Just MHO. 2 Link to comment
Sakura12 November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 (edited) From the Wendy Mericle interview in the spoiler only thread. “Laurel just wants her sister back, so she’s willing to do whatever it takes, and Diggle will be, not a skeptic, but certainly maybe not as welcoming as Oliver might be.” Laurel, yes. Diggle had a reaction but it wasn't much of one. “It makes for a really cool scene between him and Laurel,” Mericle continues. “It interestingly puts their friendship and their relationship on a completely different footing for the rest of the season, which we actually are really excited about.” If she's talking about the "What about meeee!" scene for Laurel after her zombie sister almost killed Oliver's sister. Then there is not much to be excited about. I'm still choosing to believe Oliver's thought process is "I need to keep a closer eye on this lunatic, before she gets the whole city killed" But getting Sara’s soul back won’t be an easy feat. “What we typically do in our Act 5 sequence, we have a lot of action,” Mericle says. “This is a different way of doing that. Constantine takes them to a different place, they fight, and they get her soul back. It’s a pretty cool, interesting, very different sequence for us on the show.” I certainly hope it's better than the rough cut. This is the scene I'm looking forward to seeing how the special effects will add to it. Edited November 4, 2015 by Sakura12 1 Link to comment
Happy Harpy November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 (edited) Nov. 18 (407): "A shocking revelation complicates Team Green Arrow's battle." "Team Green Arrow"? Heavy sigh. Someone still wants fetch to happen. Those spoilers and teasing from TPTB make me feel like quoting Felicity: "Stop dangling maybes". Especially "maybes" like Team Arrow (the original, the real, the one and only) my main reason for watching the show, considering they might possibly being separated, again, if Felicity is kidnapped, after the grand total of one episode with them actually having scenes together. Especially if the grave shit is going to last forever, and the Return of the Baby Mama and more Because Comics are in sight. This season has been so far better than the last for me, but a few bright spots aside, it's as if everything the producers promise and promote for the long term makes me want to stop watching again. Edited November 4, 2015 by Happy Harpy 10 Link to comment
calliope1975 November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 I don't even remember Diggle having a reaction. Guess I wasn't paying attention. I'll watch it again tonight for Matt Ryan/Constantine. It may be the only episode where I enjoy the flashbacks. 1 Link to comment
Sunshine November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 Chappaquiddick anyone? Oliver proposes to Felicity. They leave in a limo. Oh no. There's an accident. The car goes in the water. Oliver survives. Where is Felicity? Does she survive? Tune in to 4.10. Oliver goes into the water in FB. Maybe Poppy doesn't fare so well. If Felicity is dying I tend to think Ausiello's blind item could apply here. It goes without saying that said accident would be caused by someone nefarious - DD or MM. Link to comment
Sakura12 November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 Diggle: "Where'd Oliver find this guy, the Luxor?" 1 Link to comment
apinknightmare November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 From the EW article about tonight's episode (in the Spoilers thread): Would this be considered ship-baiting? I mean, they basically decide to be friends and stop keeping secrets (even though Oliver is still keeping a secret from her). Can you even ship bait when one half of the ship is living with, in love with, and allegedly about to propose to another woman? Link to comment
dtissagirl November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 From the EW article about tonight's episode (in the Spoilers thread): Would this be considered ship-baiting? If I 'shipped L/O? I would see this entire episode as A SIGN OF UPCOMING TOGETHERNESS. I totally would. But I anti-ship L/O super hard, so all I see is they had zero relationship at all since 201, and this episode ends with Oliver deciding he wants to be Laurel's friend because BYGONES. Is that ship-baiting? I don't think so, but then again, I'm not the one being baited. 5 Link to comment
apinknightmare November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 If I 'shipped L/O? I would see this entire episode as A SIGN OF UPCOMING TOGETHERNESS. I totally would. But I anti-ship L/O super hard, so all I see is they had zero relationship at all since 201, and this episode ends with Oliver deciding he wants to be Laurel's friend because BYGONES. Is that ship-baiting? I don't think so, but then again, I'm not the one being baited. Yeah, I agree. If you're a person who thinks that Felicity is going to be killed off so that O/L can get back together, this ep will freak you out. I don't see that though, it definitely seemed like bygones, all previous tension gone so they can be friends, yay! Link to comment
tv echo November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 (edited) I was skimming through Arrow-Constantine articles and came across this gem (the author is Carla Day, Contributing Writer, BuddyTV)... The best part of the "Haunted," may be that it brings Oliver and Laurel back together in a long-awaited personal way. They hash things out and actually exchange more than a few words. While they may not be romantically attached now, they have a connection and an ability to get through to each other in a way no one else can with either of them. http://www.buddytv.com/articles/arrow/arrow-interview-amell-constantine-57960.aspx Huh?! Edited November 4, 2015 by tv echo 4 Link to comment
Ann Mack November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 (edited) I was skimming through Arrow-Constantine articles and came across this gem (the author is Carla Day, Contributing Writer, BuddyTV)... http://www.buddytv.com/articles/arrow/arrow-interview-amell-constantine-57960.aspx Huh?! IDK how she got all of that out of the scenes they have together in this episode.[Edited by mod: Don't insult other viewers for having different interpretations.] To each his own though is all I got to say to that load of BS description right there though! SMDH hard!! Edited November 5, 2015 by MuuMuuChainsmoker Link to comment
Guest November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 The best part of the "Haunted," may be that it brings Oliver and Laurel back together in a long-awaited personal way. They hash things out and actually exchange more than a few words. While they may not be romantically attached now, they have a connection and an ability to get through to each other in a way no one else can with either of them. Long-awaited? Connection? Ability to get through to each other in a way no one else can? I must have missed all those rousing speeches Laurel gave Oliver when he was at his lowest point. OH WAIT. No. That was Felicity. LMAO. We must be watching a different show. Link to comment
Sakura12 November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 (edited) connection and an ability to get through to each other in a way no one else can with either of them. If she means they are ignoring everything that's happened and only say stuff at each other without actually talking about their many issues. Then yes, they get through to each other in way no one else does. Edited November 4, 2015 by Sakura12 12 Link to comment
dtissagirl November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 Yeah, I agree. If you're a person who thinks that Felicity is going to be killed off so that O/L can get back together, this ep will freak you out. I don't see that though, it definitely seemed like bygones, all previous tension gone so they can be friends, yay! Yup. The other side of the coin is this was the first episode that made me look at Laurel's place in Oliver's narrative and think "mmm. now she can be in the grave" -- because now Oliver actually remembers she exists. 12 Link to comment
yellowfred November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 Oliver's reaction was surprising-he was pretty mellow about finding out Sara was alive. That's not that surprising. At this point, Sara not being as dead as he thought she was is just their thing. He's used to it. 10 Link to comment
apinknightmare November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 (edited) That's not that surprising. At this point, Sara not being as dead as he thought she was is just their thing. He's used to it. Well, I mean, he'd never actually buried her. It should surprise him since he had a hand in disposing of her corpse. Edited November 4, 2015 by apinknightmare Link to comment
Sakura12 November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 (edited) I'd say he was a little surprised to see her alive. He just wasn't mad at Laurel about it. He was more upset that she didn't bother to tell him that Sara was on murderous rampage. Which is when you would think would be the time to get some help. But this is Laurel, thinking isn't her strong suit. Edited November 4, 2015 by Sakura12 6 Link to comment
apinknightmare November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 Yeah, his non-reaction about her being alive surprised me. He was angry that Laurel hid it, BUT BYGONES! Link to comment
calliope1975 November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 I mean, they basically decide to be friends and stop keeping secrets (even though Oliver is still keeping a secret from her). This is what cracks me up - with all the talk about Laurel being an equal a better relationship with Oliver, he's still keeping secrets from her. Secrets that directly involve her and her family. So much for all that truth talk! 3 Link to comment
AyChihuahua November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 If Poppy is just going to be basically good (although I still think she's an asshole), then they can bang and she can die anytime now. I 100% don't see the point, but they seem to be trying to draw a parallel of a good woman Oliver loves who dies (bc they didn't already have that with Sara and Shado?) to add to the OHNOES FELICITY'S REALLY SUPER GONNA DIE PLEASE BELIEVE US SHES IN DANGER ZOMG!!! So maybe MSF, then Oliver can go all smashy-smash on the drug guys? I'm entirely underwhelmed by the storyline and the actress and would like the character to go ahead and move into her grave now. Also, I am not watching tonight's episode. Sounds like there's some good stuff, it's probably one I'll catch up on after the season is over, but I can't anymore with the Laurel crap. I bet ratings will be great though, with all the Constantine watchers joining in. 4 Link to comment
Sakura12 November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 It was more BYGONES after Sara attempted to murder his sister twice. I get that he knows that Sara isn't intentionally hurting Thea. But he seems to have forgotten that Thea kept her soul but still has the bloodlust to kill Ra's. Getting Sara's soul back isn't going to erase her need to kill Thea. Laurel still caused a big problem and is responsible for Sara murdering 5 people. I guess it's, they were bad guys so who cares. Sara might, but who cares about her feelings. 3 Link to comment
kismet November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 Long-awaited? Connection? Ability to get through to each other in a way no one else can? I must have missed all those rousing speeches Laurel gave Oliver when he was at his lowest point. OH WAIT. No. That was Felicity. LMAO. We must be watching a different show. Laurel makes him see the light, but in a whole other way. She's a cautionary tale of how to make his life miserable. I do think LL & OQ have a similar stubborn bullheadness, so they might emotionally & mentally beat each other senseless until the other one gets the message. But its not a communication pathway I would aspire too. 1 Link to comment
kismet November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 That's not that surprising. At this point, Sara not being as dead as he thought she was is just their thing. He's used to it. It's an annual thing at this point, like destruction of SC in May. If it wasn't so callous, I almost imagine OQ saying something like what took her so long or it must be a new year. But I think that would hurt just a little too much and they were already way too insensitive about how they handled her death last year. 1 Link to comment
AyChihuahua November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 It was more BYGONES after Sara attempted to murder his sister twice. I get that he knows that Sara isn't intentionally hurting Thea. But he seems to have forgotten that Thea kept her soul but still has the bloodlust to kill Ra's. Getting Sara's soul back isn't going to erase her need to kill Thea. Laurel still caused a big problem and is responsible for Sara murdering 5 people. I guess it's, they were bad guys so who cares. Sara might, but who cares about her feelings. I'm guessing that's why Sara's going to leave. It's actually kind of clever, as it gives her a reason to leave her family, and it also gives Thea some interesting stuff for the rest of the season. (And yeah, no way would Oliver blame Sara.) 4 Link to comment
dtissagirl November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 When they're in the Nanda Parbat mind trip, Constantine tells Laurel and Oliver they'll have to work together to get Sara out of the pit, and it totally looked like setting up ~a moment~, but there's nothing. Maybe the final cut will have something? But at least in this version -- that still with them holding onto each other's arm? Is not even in the episode -- Oliver helps Laurel step up to the edge of the pit, but there's no kind of visual representation of "working together". They just pull Sara out of the pit, and that's it. 2 Link to comment
Sakura12 November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 Don't forget they also stop pulling Sara out for a bit so they can watch Constantine fight. Which I hope has a purpose. 4 Link to comment
apinknightmare November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 Don't forget they also stop pulling Sara out for a bit so they can watch Constantine fight. Which I hope has a purpose. I really hope they left that in. Link to comment
Sakura12 November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 (edited) Oh, I hope so too. Because it looked like they were like "Sorry, Sara we know you are being drowned by a monster, but come on it's not like you haven't drowned twice before, you know the drill. So we are going to turn around and watch a magician fight mystical ghost assassins for awhile" Then Constantine yells at them to hurry up and they are like "Right, we were supposed to be doing something on this save Sara's soul vision quest" Edited November 4, 2015 by Sakura12 7 Link to comment
NumberCruncher November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 Also, I am not watching tonight's episode. Sounds like there's some good stuff, it's probably one I'll catch up on after the season is over, but I can't anymore with the Laurel crap. I bet ratings will be great though, with all the Constantine watchers joining in. He's pretty much the only reason I'm watching this episode. The rest? Meh...don't care. 3 Link to comment
calliope1975 November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 Don't forget they also stop pulling Sara out for a bit so they can watch Constantine fight. Which I hope has a purpose. My favorite part of the entire episode. Poor Sara flailing in the hot tub while her rescuers ignore her. Comedy gold. 6 Link to comment
kismet November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 I'm positive Tommy is alive. MM didn't want to dump Thea in the Pit for a reason - he'd seen the mess he made when he did it to Tommy. I don't know if we'll ever see him, though. I think he's chilling with the real Ra's getting his head on straight. I absolutely believe that Tommy is not dead. But this is not the season he is coming back. CD is on a Dick Wolf show on NBC, unless something is really bad with that show, I don't see him coming back for more than a quick guest appearance anytime soon. There has been BTS rumors of troubles at Chicago Med, but it still seems like a pretty solid bet. There is big audience of people who love the Chicago Fire/PD family. I believe that if they bring him back it will be a few seasons from now as a means to take down MM, so I'm guessing the final season of SA's contract. That way OQ & TM can band together to destroy their nemesis, MM. I would think it would be cruel, but I wonder if they won't perhaps have OQ visit TM's grave as one of the hints to the flash fwd. I don't know what the message would necessarily mean, but I could see how they would do it as a way to mess with the audience. 2 Link to comment
Primal Slayer November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 It is such a shame because they could've made the vision quest for Sara's soul be so enticing and fun. Make Oliver/Laurel face some personal demons, some actual demons, bring back Ra's instead of a random LoA guy. 1 Link to comment
Sakura12 November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 Why would Oliver and Laurel be facing personal demons if they are saving Sara's soul? They should've been facing Sara's demons instead of random LOA. The LOA guys should've all been Sara. Link to comment
tarotx November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 The pit seems to be holding most of Sara instead of just a piece and LOA fighters are visual repersentives of the pit's force. It's a cool concept but in the Rough copy there isn't any "magic" in the action and drama. Link to comment
Primal Slayer November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 Why would Oliver and Laurel be facing personal demons if they are saving Sara's soul? They should've been facing Sara's demons instead of random LOA. The LOA guys should've all been Sara. Considering Constantine said that they could get trapped in that realm if something went wrong, having a demon or whatever playing with them to get the better of them would make sense. Link to comment
Guest November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 Weird how saving Sara's soul isn't really about Sara at all. Quelle surprise! Link to comment
Chaser November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 I wonder if the shooting schedule for 4x10 is so short because it's a bottle episode. The hospital is the bottle. 2 Link to comment
Primal Slayer November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 Weird how saving Sara's soul isn't really about Sara at all. Quelle surprise! Isn't that how it goes half the time? Link to comment
Guest November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 Isn't that how it goes half the time? Half the time? All the time. S3 Sara was a giant plot point. I hope they treat her better over on Legends, I really do. Link to comment
Primal Slayer November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 Half the time? All the time. S3 Sara was a giant plot point. I hope they treat her better over on Legends, I really do. She has a better chance since she will be away from MG. and the way they talk about her, they are actually interested in her so I have faith. Link to comment
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