Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Guest]

Two deaths? Well, Ra's has to be one of them. I'd love for Malcolm to be the second but I don't think I'm that lucky. I honestly can't think who it could be though. I don't think it will be Quentin. There's a lot of angst and drama left hanging there that could easily continue into s4 and if the theme is family (which is looking very likely) then Laurel and Quentin will be having further issues. So I really don't think it will be him. 

 

As for O/F, I'm guessing a proposal. I still don't think a marriage is even possible with so much else going on. Although it could also mean that they're just together officially. Who knows?

Edited May 10, 2015 by Guest

[apinknightmare]

Is the scene inside or outside? Because that could be where one of the INSTRUMENTS OF DEATH is planted.

[Chaser]

Personally, I think dating would be the next level.

[TanyaKay]

I am thinking engagement. I mean in the season premiere, he made Diggle's kid a locket which means he can make jewelry. Who knows he probably made a ring for Felicity in his spare time when he was not running after LoA, random street thugs and meta humans.

Edited May 11, 2015 by TanyaKay

[HighHopes]

Honestly, I would be so angry if the season ends with Oliver and Felicity being either engaged or married. Because we have yet to see their [romantic] relationship. Yes we have seen them fall in love and their friendship, but that doesn't mean that I don't want everything that comes after that when they are together but before they get married/engaged. 

 

Right now I honestly do not see how they go from where they are to being married/engaged/dating. Because we ended the last episode with Felicity believing that the man she loves (and that is supposed to love her) not only is marrying another woman, but also killed her and all of her (And his) friends. Right now it seems like they are ending the season with O/F together because they know that they might risk losing the shippers/the very vocal part of the fandom if they don't. 

 

I also sort of hate that they are ending the season together both physically and romantically because we are yet again going to miss those 5 very very important months. We missed them and were forced to buy the comics if we wanted to see them (smart move MG, gotta make that extra money and why not use the shippers?) and we will be forced to buy them again after this season ends. 

Edited May 10, 2015 by HighHopes

[apinknightmare]

Conventional wisdom is that these two kids would date for a while, but they had Felicity point out that they've already talked about anything they could talk about on a date for the most part. Add to that the way this show burns through story and the fact that Oliver and co. are just coming out of some pretty heavy emotional stuff, I'm guessing they either get engaged or elope. 

 

Or maybe they move in together or something. 

[blixie]

 

Because we have yet to see their [romantic] relationship.

 

The show isn't ABOUT their romantic relationship I do not need it to be, any more than the show is ABOUT Queen Consolidated. Like God, have them be cute working together on HERO stuff and sometimes banging/kissing. I do not need these wholly ill equipped mofo's writing anymore "romance".

[HighHopes]

Oliver still hasn't said that he wants to be with Felicity yet tho. And as Felicity has said throughout the season, it's because of him that they aren't together. That if he would just want to be with her (and actually be with her. Not this "I want to be with you but can't because of Reasons" thing) they would be together. And now suddenly he does want to be with her and they are eloping or getting engaged? I don't see how they can get there unless Oliver tells her that he has been an idiot all year and that he does want to be with her, and will be with her. But then we have the issue of why would Felicity believe him now?

 

The show isn't ABOUT their romantic relationship I do not need it to be, any more than the show is ABOUT Queen Consolidated. Like God, have them be cute working together on HERO stuff and sometimes banging/kissing. I do not need these wholly ill equipped mofo's writing anymore "romance".

 

I never said that the show had to be about their romantic relationship. Just that I want to see it. A two minute scene every episode doesn't mean the show is about their relationship. I agree that the writers can't write romantic relationships to save their lives, but I still want to see the build up to Oliver and Felicity getting married/engaged. Because this season, IMO, was not it. 

[Starfish35]

My reaction to seeing this thread is still talking about Olicity getting married

 

.

[apinknightmare]

My reaction to seeing this thread is still talking about Olicity getting married

 

At least this time it's actually based on spoilers!

[NumberCruncher]

I need this season to be over because I feel like I've never been so sick of wedding talk in my life. I'm praying someone will give us better spoilers soon.

[Sunshine]

I think the next level would be going away together and/or moving in together. They are way past the dating stage. Then again it could be Oliver becoming Felicity's EA. ;)

 

As for the courthouse scenes, those could simply take place where one of the four agents of death is.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Sunshine

[apinknightmare]

I really hope Malcolm's the second death. I know JB said he'd be back, but no thank you.

[Guest]

Well, instead of talking about weddings, let's discuss who is gonna DIE?!

[HighHopes]

Well, instead of talking about weddings, let's discuss who is gonna DIE?!

Fingers crossed for Malcolm and Ra's. Please. 

[TanyaKay]

I would be glad if one of the Lances die.

They take up too much screen time with their mostly stupid melodrama which is never part of plot A. Plus any sympathies I had with Papa Lance, I lost them after his very illogical witch-hunt. I would be very happy if one of the dead people is a Lance family member. The other one has got to be Ra'as right? B/c he won't let Oliver live if he is alive.

[Guest]

Fingers crossed for Malcolm and Ra's. Please. 

 

Same. I NEED it. I love JB but Malcolm has got to go. Enough already.

[MostlyC]

Felicity is getting married? To Oliver?!

 

it's kind of getting repetitive.  it's kind of getting repetitive.

it's kind of getting repetitive.it's kind of getting repetitive.it's kind of getting repetitive. it's kind of getting repetitive.

it's kind of getting repetitive.

it's kind of getting repetitive.it's kind of getting repetitive

.it's kind of getting repetitive.it's kind of getting repetitive.

it's kind of getting repetitive. it's kind of getting repetitive.....

 

Let's use the "Cats Chasing Their Tail Corollary" and move on. 

[AnalyzeAndCritique]

The show isn't ABOUT their romantic relationship I do not need it to be, any more than the show is ABOUT Queen Consolidated. Like God, have them be cute working together on HERO stuff and sometimes banging/kissing. I do not need these wholly ill equipped mofo's writing anymore "romance".

Word.

[dtissagirl]

As much as I want Malcolm to GTFO, I'm wondering if the second death is the General dude in the flashbacks.

[Chaser]

These spoilers just keep repeating. More wedding/marriage talk. More death talk.

I want Malcolm to die because he should die but my Malcolm/Felicity love wants to be satisfied. Lol

I found it interesting that SA referenced the beginning of S2 as start of the Oliver and Felicity development. I wonder if that's their mind frame now or when they actually made the decision to make the switch. I don't know if that relates at all to the possibility of them getting married, I just found it interesting.

MG said Someone dies, but SA is saying two people do. Maybe one doesn't stick or it was supposed to be a surprise.

[apinknightmare]

MG said Someone dies, but SA is saying two people do. Maybe one doesn't stick or it was supposed to be a surprise.

 

Maybe the second one is Al Sah-Him? I'll miss his dead behind the eyes ways. 

[kismet]

Based upon the spoilers, I will have to say that I still believe that Oliver & Felicity will either be engaged or have eloped by the end of the episode. What better way to finally say that he wants to be with her. I mean it's an extreme way of saying his ready to commit & that seems to be how the writers roll these days. So there is no need for discussion from my end. I'm just stating my beliefs & placing my bets. :)

 

The deaths are more tricky. Ras is a definite, hands down. Do you think that the other one could be Al ShaHim? Do we know if they are actual deaths or could a metaphorical death count? I can't see Quentin dying, they need some human connection to the city. MM seems integral to Arrow as a possible archenemy. Also they wouldn't sign JB to a contract only to get rid of him after 1 season of that contract.

 

ETA - Apinknightmare beat me to the Al Shahim theory. Slow typing after long day of work.

Edited May 11, 2015 by kismet

[Hook75]

In his panel, I think SA said the LP will be used again.

[Guest]

The second death better not be Tatsu or I will riot. And by riot I mean I will come here and complain about it repeatedly.

[A Cunning Stunt]

Well, instead of talking about weddings, let's discuss who is gonna DIE?!

Please let it be Ra's. I'm so over his storyline I'd actually jump for joy if he's toast. I want Nyssa to string him up & baste his behind like Christmas turkey, after that last episode. Still, I'm wary TPTB will want to have him pop up at a later stage.

Malcolm needs to get gone too, but at this point in the death wish stakes he is neck & neck with Quentin for me.

Wild Card: No matter how futile this is, I'm going to hope Laurel croaks. When it comes to women who can handle themselves out in the field on this show, I'd rather that screen time be used for any of Tatsu/Lyla/Nyssa/whomever Caity is playing.

[Starfish35]

It won't be the one person I really want it to be, Malcolm, so as long as it's not Tatsu or Nyssa I don't care. Oliver, Felicity, Diggle, and Thea are all safe according to what little we know about season four, and they'll never kill Laurel off. So....it doesn't leave a lot of options left.

[Chaser]

After the backlash of Sara's death, I want to say the woman are safe. But….

 

I don't want it to be Tatsu. Please not Tatsu. 

Edited May 11, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[kismet]

Would Shrieve count enough to be considered a "death"? It could be OQ's first real vengeance based calculated kill. The other people he killed were accidental, in the moment or nameless men from a mission (no name characters). But somehow he began to see himself as an assassin. Perhaps the General is his first real target kill? It could be how they start his FB journey becoming darker.

Edited May 11, 2015 by kismet

[apinknightmare]

Would Shrieve count enough to be considered a "death"? It could be OQ's first real vengeance based calculated kill. The other people he killed were accidental, in the moment or nameless men from a mission (no name characters). But somehow he began to see himself as an assassin. Perhaps the General is his first real target kill? It could be how they start his FB journey becoming darker.

 

Yeah, if Malcolm isn't dying, then I'd like the death to be in the past. Shrieve works for me!

[Sunshine]

It could be General Shrieve in the flashbacks.  IIRC at one con SA said there wouldn't be any "Oh! No!" deaths.  We know from the promo pics that at least Oliver and Tatsu get away from the trap he set.  Maseo gets away at some point too I assume since he was in present day. .  It wouldn't surprise me if he's the one who kills the general because of Akio's death.

[Reba]

I don't think DC would let them kill Shrieve. Wouldn't that kill any Creature Commandos movie, TV?

I think maybe Diggle could die and they could use the LP. that would add more to the Diggle/ Oliver conflict for S4.

I really can't think of a second named character after Ra's that I could see them killing. I can only guess the death does not stick.

[A Cunning Stunt]

I think the next level would be going away together and/or moving in together. They are way past the dating stage. Then again it could be Oliver becoming Felicity's EA. ;)

For Oliver to just make all in honest try at this relationship/go away together would be enough of a next level for me. I'd rather any possible cohabitation wait until early S4 & happen in the background, especially if S4 is half as depressing as this year - there needs to be a lighter counterpoint, especially while he's on the outs with Digg. Plus it'd be nice to have at least 1 development be onscreen - I don't feel like I should have to buy supplemental books for in show story elements to make sense *side-eyes the 2.5 comics*

Regards the company, has it been confirmed whether it will be Team Arrow's base of operation next season? I could swear Oliver already had a secondary location.

[wonderwall]

It's definitely going to be Ra's and Tatsu. Why Tatsu? Because Tatsu is in the new Suicide Squad movie and DC is stupid. 

[Genki]

In his panel, I think SA said the LP will be used again.

If Damian Darhk stole waters from the LP and used them to successfully extend his life they could use it without ever having to go back to NP again. I hope the 2nd resurrection is Sara's.

As for death generally what everyone else said...

#1 Wish-Laurel

#2 Wish - Malcolm

What I believe will really happen - Ra's & General Shrive

What better NOT happen Tatsu or Nyssa

Edited May 11, 2015 by Genki

[Chaser]

That secondary location just kind of disappeared. Or was it the Watchtower and Lyla blew it up?

 

I could see the company being used as HQ; It would save money to re-use the set. However, I think its a bit far from the Glades to really work. 

[A Cunning Stunt]

So, Stephen said Connor comes up in S4?

Let it be just fleeting because I really wanted that thread to be dead and buried. I don't see it being handled well given the way they've ballsed up the storytelling this year. I had hoped we'd escape any potential baby-momma drama.

[apinknightmare]

That secondary location just kind of disappeared. Or was it the Watchtower and Lyla blew it up?

 

It's still there. Oliver mentioned he had a backup weapons cache there in Broken Arrow. WHY THEY DON'T USE IT, I HAVE NO IDEA.

[Sunshine]

For Oliver to just make all in honest try at this relationship/go away together would be enough of a next level for me. I'd rather any possible cohabitation wait until early S4 & happen in the background, especially if S4 is half as depressing as this year - there needs to be a lighter counterpoint, especially while he's on the outs with Digg. Plus it'd be nice to have at least 1 development be onscreen - I don't feel like I should have to buy supplemental books for in show story elements to make sense *side-eyes the 2.5 comics*

Regards the company, has it been confirmed whether it will be Team Arrow's base of operation next season? I could swear Oliver already had a secondary location.

Nothing has been confirmed about it being Team Arrow's base of operations.  MG did say they just extended the set because of the number of people who needed to be in it this year.  They seem to like using that set - QC, PT, Ray's home, temporary TA location 3.21-3.23.  I just think that at least Felicity will be operating from there in S4.  The secondary lair has never been set up so besides a weapons cache (arrows?) it would require a lot of work to set up. LOL!  You have to have a lot of power for the computers unless he is going old school!

[Chaser]

What happened to Queen Manor? Was it part of QC assets? 

 

I'm wondering because if it was and its now Felicity's and she gives it back to Oliver and Thea maybe there is a cave under the house. That you can accesses through an old big ben clock. And there may be an outside entrance through a waterfall..

Edited May 11, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[pivot]

Well, instead of talking about weddings, let's discuss who is gonna DIE?!

Best way to fix the show is for it to be Laurel Lance and Det. Lance. They've outlived their usefulness years ago.

[Sunshine]

I am thinking both Malcolm and Quentin survive the finale if S4's theme is family.

[calliope1975]

So, Stephen said Connor comes up in S4?

Let it be just fleeting because I really wanted that thread to be dead and buried. I don't see it being handled well given the way they've ballsed up the storytelling this year. I had hoped we'd escape any potential baby-momma drama.

 

I'm already dreading and over the baby mama drama, but luckily, this season taught me how to use my fast forward button quite efficiently. 

 

If Caity wasn't headed to the spin-off, and DD had taken or had his own LP, I could see an interesting story line where he resurrects Sara and builds his own army against Ra's. But yeah, that's not happening. 

[TanyaKay]

Best way to fix the show is for it to be Laurel Lance and Det. Lance. They've outlived their usefulness years ago.

Thank you for saying it.

I fail to understand the love Papa Lance enjoys. I mean I like Paul Blackthorne, he seems like a stand up dude but his character is useless. They can always introduce another police officer with more character and gravitas if they want that connection.

The Lances as a family are the worst but they will never die. The other daughter is getting her third or fourth (I genuinely lost count) resurrection.

Edited May 11, 2015 by TanyaKay

[kismet]

I don't think DC would let them kill Shrieve. Wouldn't that kill any Creature Commandos movie, TV?

I think maybe Diggle could die and they could use the LP. that would add more to the Diggle/ Oliver conflict for S4.

I really can't think of a second named character after Ra's that I could see them killing. I can only guess the death does not stick.

Shrieve could be left for dead, but not confirmed dead like Floyd Lawton/Deadshot. I can see them getting away with that, so they have the option to do movies or TV. I could see DC allowing them to do that with the character. DC may even want the character free from Arrow for the moment.

[Guest]

Yuck. We all knew the kid storyline was coming but ugh. Kids ruin everything. Ah well. You can't win them all.

 

I wonder if Oliver finding out he has a kid helps fix his relationship with Diggle. It's definitely something to bond over. 

[statsgirl]

I guess Laurel is going to live another season if she gets her own storyline. Hopefully in a lair away from Oliver's.   It was always going to be too good to be true to have her off the show.

 

If one of the deaths isn't Ra's, I will personally go down there and kill him myself.  I still think the second death will be Malcolm after a big redemption act.  Just like the EPs of OUaT can't keep Regina evil, the Arrow EPs can't give up on Malcolm even though both Lana Parilla and John Barrowman are much more fun playing eveil.

 

Right now I honestly do not see how they go from where they are to being married/engaged/dating. Because we ended the last episode with Felicity believing that the man she loves (and that is supposed to love her) not only is marrying another woman, but also killed her and all of her (And his) friends. Right now it seems like they are ending the season with O/F together because they know that they might risk losing the shippers/the very vocal part of the fandom if they don't.

Forget marriage or engagement, I don't see how Felicity can even drive off into the sunset with Oliver after the last episode.  This emphasis in the season finale episodes on Diggle and Felicity after the show has abandoned them for most of the year plus the Olicity feels is incredibly manipulative.  They know what sells, and when it's May sweeps, they dig it out.

 

What happened to Queen Manor? Was it part of QC assets?

I assumed that it one of the assets that Oliver used to shore up the QC stock and when the stock crashed, the bank took it over.

[HighHopes]

 

Forget marriage or engagement, I don't see how Felicity can even drive off into the sunset with Oliver after the last episode.  This emphasis in the season finale episodes on Diggle and Felicity after the show has abandoned them for most of the year plus the Olicity feels is incredibly manipulative.  They know what sells, and when it's May sweeps, they dig it out.

 

They sort if did the exact same thing last year. Diggle and Felicity, Olicity, and Team Arrow was missing majorly from 2B, and the last three episodes came and suddenly it was "this started with the three of us, it's time we got back to that". They know they can ignore what makes the show work (imo) so they can have their Comics!!!11 and then when it's Sweeps they throw in one or two episodes/scenes of Olicity and Diggle/Felicity. 

 

It really does depend on how they get Oliver/Felicity together, but right now i just don't buy it because Oliver (again imo) has done nothing to show or prove that he's changed from the premiere. 

Edited May 11, 2015 by HighHopes

[catahoulamama]

Please let it be Ra's. I'm so over his storyline I'd actually jump for joy if he's toast. I want Nyssa to string him up & baste his behind like Christmas turkey, after that last episode. Still, I'm wary TPTB will want to have him pop up at a later stage.

Malcolm needs to get gone too, but at this point in the death wish stakes he is neck & neck with Quentin for me.

Wild Card: No matter how futile this is, I'm going to hope Laurel croaks. When it comes to women who can handle themselves out in the field on this show, I'd rather that screen time be used for any of Tatsu/Lyla/Nyssa/whomever Caity is playing.

I think Ra's death is nearly a given at this point. SA said Oliver becomes Ra's at some point this season, so I'm thinking they (Ra's, Oliver, Nyssa) have an epic fight on the plane and Ra's gets run through with a sword and kicked out of the back of the plane like Oliver off the mountain. Oliver is Ra's just long enough to pass the torch to Nyssa.

 

I'd officially be shocked if they killed off Malcolm...I don't think he's going anywhere. Same for Lance. I'd love it if it was Laurel, but THAT ain't happening either. The second death will likely be a fringe character...another mayor, perhaps? LOL

[BkWurm1]

I don't want Quentin to die so here hoping he's left alone.  Sure his relationship with the Arrow really soured at the end but I loved their partnership and I want Oliver to have a chance to get it back.  Dead makes that kinda hard.

 

Ra's needs to die.  Someone reported that SA at one of his Nocking Point drinking parties said the deaths aren't ones that make you go like "Oh, no!" So I assume that means Malcolm and Lance are safe.  Last year they mentioned a few deaths and didn't they belong to multiple people of no importance?