Spoiler Discussion Thread

[nksarmi]

Ok so Al-sham whatever dude can remember that Nyssa said "vengeance is justice" but can he remember that there is nothing to get vengeance on her for?  Can he remember that Malcolm still hasn't paid for Sara's death or Tommy's or Robert's or the 500+ who died in the glades?  Why isn't he hell bent on killing Malcolm?  Why does he OR Ras even care about Nyssa anymore?

 

Ugh.  This show! I can't wait for this season to be over and I'm hoping they haven't done so much damage by the time it is that I can't enjoy season four.

[apinknightmare]

I mean in the upcoming episode.  And yes, it's a difficult situation, which is why I said early brainstorming-style planning.  Vs. throwing him an informal wake and giving up.

 

Well, maybe the planning to get him back comes in the 40-ish minutes of the episode that we haven't seen outside of that sneak peek.

[AyChihuahua]

Well, maybe the planning to get him back comes in the 40-ish minutes of the episode that we haven't seen outside of that sneak peek.

I certainly hope so, because otherwise they have been doing nothing but giving up on him all season long.  

 

 

To be fair though, over the last few weeks they've seen the destruction Ra's is willing to cause just to make Oliver his heir, and if Oliver himself is out of options, what could they do?

Who knows what they could come up with, until they try to come up with something.  Not to mention, Oliver is historically terrible at coming up with options, which is why he needs them.  

Edited April 28, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[apinknightmare]

Well, we didn't know they had a plan to get Roy out until he was already out. So the fact that they aren't discussing it and seem to be going with the flow doesn't really mean anything, IMO.

[chaos is welcome]

Felicity drugged the guy to try to get him out, and they all tried to escape with him. Diggle suggested that they just get on the plane and leave, but Oliver wouldn't. I think that proves they give more than a crap about him. Seems like the kind of thing to me that requires a well thought out plan, since they not only have to get Oliver out, they also have to neutralize Ra's as a threat. They get him back, then what. You think Ra's won't murder Thea for real this time? He'd come for Thea and everyone else. 

 

And we don't know Felicity didn't look back - we only saw a few seconds of her walking. If she didn't, I wouldn't blame her. They couldn't even look at each other after they kissed.

 

I wonder if perhaps this is Malcolm's offer or whatever in 22, an idea to get him back.  Honostly, I can imagine they are SO overwhelmed with how big of a threat Ras is, he basically walks in and gets them to do what he wants because he just turned the entire city against Oliver without breaking a sweat.  They tried to save him.  I feel like Felicity for sure considers him lost--she told Laurel he's gone for good and he's not coming back. She's never really given up on him, not when he went to Lian Yu the 2nd time, not when everyone else was fairly certain hew as dead after the first battle with Ras.  She tried to get him out, but couldn't.

 

I didn't consider it weird she didn't look back, it would have hurt too much.  I also keep waiting (probably hopelessly) for them to have Oliver stop letting her walk away from him.  I need a video montage of ALL THE TIMES she has walked away and he has let her. I hope someday he will actually stop her. Ya know, after we get past this whole "being Ras" thing. 

Anyway, I imagine they are all trying to think of something on their own and its not getting anywhere, so they don't want to talk about it because hope might seem way worse, at this point, especially given that they have lost him once and got him back.

[AyChihuahua]

Well, we didn't know they had a plan to get Roy out until he was already out. So the fact that they aren't discussing it and seem to be going with the flow doesn't really mean anything, IMO.

That would be lovely, but nothing so far has indicated that.  All indications are that, until he comes back for Nyssa, they've written him off.

 

 

She tried to get him out, but couldn't.

So one attempt, with a fairly stupid plan, is all he's worth?  

Edited April 28, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[tarotx]

It's already been 3 weeks so who knows the conversations the group had. And not only did they see the destruction but the League's masses.

[catrox14]

I'm surprised that there is concern that TA is not planning something.  C'mon.  Look at the schemes they've done in the past.  IMO that dinner scene is a ruse or a precursor to a planning session. 

 

Alternately, I wouldn't be surprised if they think Dig's apartment is bugged. I think that pan over to their picture is not just about angsty brotherhood sadness but it reminded me of last season when we had Slade planting bugs all over the mansion. 

 

So one attempt, with a fairly stupid plan, is all he's worth?

 

That's a pretty low opinion of TA and Felicity's proven tenacity. Retreat, regroup and attack later.

Edited April 28, 2015 by catrox14

[apinknightmare]

That would be lovely, but nothing so far has indicated that.  All indications are that, until he comes back for Nyssa, they've written him off.

 

That was kind of my point. We didn't have any indication that they were trying to get Roy out until they did it. I suspect there will be actual discussions, but just because they're having a nice dinner with Thea and don't mention trying to break him out doesn't mean they aren't trying to figure out ways to break him out. Maybe they don't want her worrying about things like that? She seems to have a lot going on. 

[AyChihuahua]

I guess we'll find out soon, but if it turns out they've given up on him and aren't at least thinking through some ideas to take down the League, it'll be pretty clear he's not that important to them.  I get all the "He's dead" metaphors, but the thing is, he's not dead.  So screw the metaphor and start brainstorming.

Edited April 28, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[catrox14]

I guess we'll find out soon, but if it turns out they've given up on him and aren't at least thinking through some ideas to take down the League, it'll be pretty clear he's not that important to them.  I get all the "He's dead" metaphors, but the thing is, he's not dead.  So screw the metaphor and start brainstorming.

 

The only reason I can see for Team Arrow to truly give up and accept Oliver's decision is to give Laurel something to do. She's not at the dinner so I could see them do more Laurel as Black Canary propping when she comes swooping in and gives Team Arrow a pep talk about how they should have never given up. 

 

Oh gods...I just talked myself out of my own theory above.  Crap.

[nksarmi]

LOL maybe I just don't like Oliver as much as the rest of you do - but I don't give two cents if they aren't planning anything to get him back and are just in a mourning stage right now.  Yes Felicity threatened that they would go to war against Ra's to get Oliver back, but I assume wisdom has set in.  Logically speaking, they can't get Oliver back without - at least - taking out Ra's.  If they don't take out Ra's and put someone in his place whom they can trust - even if they do get Oliver away from the League - Ra's will keep killing people that Oliver loves.

 

So assuming these wise people can realize that they are going to have to break the "do not kill" rule -  do we really think that Diggle, Felicity, Thea, and Laurel are going to make a plan to kill Ra's?  Really?  Ok sure. 

 

The only chance our heroes have is enlisting the help of Nyssa and Malcolm and Nyssa had previously said she wouldn't betray her father and Malcolm doesn't seem likely to go up against Ra's.  Perhaps with Ra's sending Oliver to kill Nyssa, they might be able to convince her to help them - but clearly that had to happen first. 

 

So yes, I'm ok with them mourning him and trying to carry on his legacy until Ra's forces all their hands.  Which of course makes you wonder what the hell Ra's is thinking?  I mean the dude had won.  So he goes and stirs up shit and makes the people that Oliver Queen cared about half to defend themselves and fight to get him back?  He goes after his daughter who had accepted her banishment and was just chilling out not threatening anything? Yea, this guy is smart. 

 

I so hate this story.

[nksarmi]

And let me just say that I think Oliver is at least partially to blame for the situation he is in right now.  Once he learned what Malcolm did to Thea, he could have kill Malcolm on the spot, turned him over to Nyssa and told him there is the man responsible for Sara's death, and then explained to Thea who he was and what Malcolm did to her.  Sure, it might have messed with her head a bit, but its not like Malcolm is really her dad or anything - she spent six months with him at most and he mind-raped her.  I think Oliver could have dealt with this whole story a lot better if he had just let Nyssa have her justice.

[calliope1975]

I'm ready for Oliver to do some fighting on his own. He gives up so easily, and while I appreciate that he has friends and family who can pep talk him back into heroism, it's about time he stepped up, too. I would love for him to have gotten some inspiration for how TA saved Roy and implement his own secret plan. I wouldn't even care if we only saw it in flashbacks a la the mansion plan last year, but I want him to recognize his terrible decisions (helping Merlyn) and grow a bit.

[AyChihuahua]

LOL maybe I just don't like Oliver as much as the rest of you do - but I don't give two cents if they aren't planning anything to get him back and are just in a mourning stage right now.  Yes Felicity threatened that they would go to war against Ra's to get Oliver back, but I assume wisdom has set in.  Logically speaking, they can't get Oliver back without - at least - taking out Ra's.  If they don't take out Ra's and put someone in his place whom they can trust - even if they do get Oliver away from the League - Ra's will keep killing people that Oliver loves.

 

So assuming these wise people can realize that they are going to have to break the "do not kill" rule -  do we really think that Diggle, Felicity, Thea, and Laurel are going to make a plan to kill Ra's?  Really?  Ok sure. 

 

The only chance our heroes have is enlisting the help of Nyssa and Malcolm and Nyssa had previously said she wouldn't betray her father and Malcolm doesn't seem likely to go up against Ra's.  Perhaps with Ra's sending Oliver to kill Nyssa, they might be able to convince her to help them - but clearly that had to happen first. 

You're already thinking through a plan, though.  See, they need to take out Ra's and install someone who will let Oliver out of the League.  Who do they know who meets those criteria and is currently unemployed?  And Diggle has not taken a vow not to kill, not to mention even if he had I'm comfortable Ra's would fit one of the exceptions to that rule.  Felicity has, after all, already signed off on his death once that we know of.

 

 

I'm ready for Oliver to do some fighting on his own. He gives up so easily, and while I appreciate that he has friends and family who can pep talk him back into heroism, it's about time he stepped up, too. I would love for him to have gotten some inspiration for how TA saved Roy and implement his own secret plan. I wouldn't even care if we only saw it in flashbacks a la the mansion plan last year, but I want him to recognize his terrible decisions (helping Merlyn) and grow a bit.

I would be absolutely fine with it playing out that way, especially because I could not loathe the brainwashing story more.  It makes me ill.  I just want them to care enough to CHAT about possibilities, not necessarily to implement a plan or succeed.  (And yes, Oliver has been unbearably stupid all season long.)

Edited April 28, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[SonofaBiscuit]

I'm at the point where I'm just filled with so much apathy.  I'm left thinking "Really, we're separating Oliver from Team Arrow again?  And the city is left in the hands of Diggle & Laurel (but not poor Roy, sadly) again?  And Felicity might be visiting Palmer Island again (think MG said something about Ray & Felicity having a nice scene)?  And Laurel is training again?  I mean, that last one's not such a bad idea, but...been there, done that.  I already watched this stuff happen a few months ago, no need for a retread.        

[AyChihuahua]

The only thing I'm interested in reading about is Thea becoming a badass and threatening Oliver for Diggle.  I've had my issues with Thea, but Willa is a talented actress and I think will rock the badass role.  The dinner is going to be more angst with a healthy helping of ominous things to come between Diggle and Oliver, and I could not be more over that stuff.

[Morrigan2575]

Seems odd to me that people are blaming TA for not doing anything to save Oliver when it was his choice to make the deal and stay. They tried a very stupid Hail Mary plan that was doomed to fail and they would have been killed for it, had Oliver not woken up.  It was Oliver's choice to remain in NP to protect them.  For all they know any further attempts to "save" him would result in Oliver telling them not to bother, too risky, go home leave him to his deal.

 

I don't think TA will attempt to save Oliver until they realize that Ra's has been a mind whammy on him and is no longer playing but the rules he laid out in 316.  The LoA follows Ra's but this Ra's isn't going to allow Oliver to change the organization, rather he's going to change Oliver to fit the mold of Ra's Al Ghul.  I figure after TA comes face to face with Mind Whammied Al Sa-him then they'll start formulating a plan to get him back from NP.  We pretty much know they go after him in 322 with MM's help

[dtissagirl]

Didn't David Ramsey mention in a panel this past weekend that *of course* Team Arrow is gonna try to get Oliver back?

[apinknightmare]

Didn't David Ramsey mention in a panel this past weekend that *of course* Team Arrow is gonna try to get Oliver back?

 

He did. They're in love with him, he's their guy!

[AyChihuahua]

Seems odd to me that people are blaming TA for not doing anything to save Oliver when it was his choice to make the deal and stay. They tried a very stupid Hail Mary plan that was doomed to fail and they would have been killed for it, had Oliver not woken up.  It was Oliver's choice to remain in NP to protect them.  For all they know any further attempts to "save" him would result in Oliver telling them not to bother, too risky, go home leave him to his deal.

 

I don't think TA will attempt to save Oliver until they realize that Ra's has been a mind whammy on him and is no longer playing but the rules he laid out in 316.  The LoA follows Ra's but this Ra's isn't going to allow Oliver to change the organization, rather he's going to change Oliver to fit the mold of Ra's Al Ghul.  I figure after TA comes face to face with Mind Whammied Al Sa-him then they'll start formulating a plan to get him back from NP.  We pretty much know they go after him in 322 with MM's help

How is it his "choice" in any meaningful sense?  He agreed to the offer because Ra's stuck a sword in his sister and effectively killed her, then offered the LP.  If he left afterwards, Ra's would have killed them all.  He doesn't actually want to be in the LOA, obviously, or he would have accepted the offer back in the day.  If he had, and they'd written him off, I would have been fine with that (although the show would pretty much be over).  Additionally, Felicity at least was pretty well aware the LOA wasn't going to turn into the Junior League just because Oliver tells them to, although Oliver's thought back then that they might is another excellent piece of evidence that he is unbearably stupid this season.

 

Didn't David Ramsey mention in a panel this past weekend that *of course* Team Arrow is gonna try to get Oliver back?

My guess is that they'll start working out a plan after he comes back.  Which won't really work for me, but maybe I can fanwank it into they're all thinking about possibilities, just not talking, until him going after Nyssa gives them an actual idea.

Edited April 28, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[Password]

Sigh this all comes back to the stupidity of saving Malcolm in ep 4.

Do we think Malcolm would've shown Ra's the video if he was taken then? But then again Oliver saved Malcolm in ep 15. Not to mention he just took Malcolm at his word about Ra's not believing the video that Thea was drugged. His obsession with Malcolm is my end.

[looptab]

But he is at a point where no other choice seems possible. Ra's tried to kill Thea. if Oliver defies him, he doesn't know what Ra's will do next. It's the "defeated hero" phase.(I know it's been all season). It'll pass. TA isn't giving up on Oliver, they're making sure that his sacrifice isn't moot. They're not risking Thea's life, because Oliver wouldn't want that. But they're still honoring the mission, honoring the legacy he left them, what he inspired them to do.

[Morrigan2575]

How is it his "choice" in any meaningful sense?  He agreed to the offer because Ra's stuck a sword in his sister and effectively killed her, then offered the LP.  If he left afterwards, Ra's would have killed them all.  He doesn't actually want to be in the LOA, obviously, or he would have accepted the offer back in the day.  Any at least Felicity was pretty well aware the LOA wasn't going to turn into the Junior League just because Oliver tells them to, although Oliver's thought back then that they might is another excellent piece of evidence that he is unbearably stupid this season.

 

My guess is that they'll start working out a plan after he comes back.  Which won't really work for me, but maybe I can fanwank it into they're all thinking about possibilities, just not talking, until him going after Nyssa gives them an actual idea.

No he doesn't want to be there, but they did attempt to try and get him out at the end of 320 and he said NO.  If they tried to break him out again he'd say NO.  So what more are they supposed to do?  They nearly died tried to rescue Oliver last time and (even though they don't know it) Oliver was the only thing that stopped Ra's from killing them all after that stunt.  Pretty damn sure the last thing Oliver wants is for anyone (especially D/F/T) to die for him.

 

But he is at a point where no other choice seems possible. Ra's tried to kill Thea. if Oliver defies him, he doesn't know what Ra's will do next. It's the "defeated hero" phase.(I know it's been all season). It'll pass. TA isn't giving up on Oliver, they're making sure that his sacrifice isn't moot. They're not risking Thea's life, because Oliver wouldn't want that. But they're still honoring the mission, honoring the legacy he left them, what he inspired them to do.

 

^^^This

Edited April 28, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[chaos is welcome]

Seems odd to me that people are blaming TA for not doing anything to save Oliver when it was his choice to make the deal and stay. They tried a very stupid Hail Mary plan that was doomed to fail and they would have been killed for it, had Oliver not woken up.  It was Oliver's choice to remain in NP to protect them.  For all they know any further attempts to "save" him would result in Oliver telling them not to bother, too risky, go home leave him to his deal.

 

I don't think TA will attempt to save Oliver until they realize that Ra's has been a mind whammy on him and is no longer playing but the rules he laid out in 316.  The LoA follows Ra's but this Ra's isn't going to allow Oliver to change the organization, rather he's going to change Oliver to fit the mold of Ra's Al Ghul.  I figure after TA comes face to face with Mind Whammied Al Sa-him then they'll start formulating a plan to get him back from NP.  We pretty much know they go after him in 322 with MM's help

Yup, I agree with all of this.

 

Plus Team Arrow does have a history of seeing reason. There's a big difference between wanting to go get him and blindly just trying stupid stuff (ahem, Laurel, side eye to you) without forethought or planning.  They are allowed to feel hopeless for a bit, and just because we're not seeing them scheme on screen doesn't mean they aren't thinking about it. TIIC have shown they don't often show **STUFF** they should, so I hardly expect them to show this.

 

 

 

 

I so hate this story.

Agree. There are so many ways they could have gotten to a similar place without SO MUCH STUPID.

[blixie]

 

I'm at the point where I'm just filled with so much apathy.

 

Yup.

 

 

I just want them to care enough to CHAT about possibilities,

 

I do think this somewhat different then when he landed gut-wounded on a rock pillow, his fate at that time was uncertain, and he was still "their Oliver", they did not want to face that he was lost to them, but now his fate IS certain, and he made the choice to save Thea's life,and like others said Bejeweld Dustered Plot Contrivance has shown that Oliver and Starling and certainly Thea will be sacrificed if Oliver doesn't stay Al-Sahim. So Al-Sahim he will stay until....he's not. Because Felcities Love Plot resolution will arrive. I think TA is allowed a brief period of mourning their defeat before they re-group to get Oliver back.

[AyChihuahua]

 

No he doesn't want to be there, but they did attempt to try and get him out at the end of 320 and he said NO.  If they tried to break him out again he'd say NO.  So what more are they supposed to do?  They nearly died tried to rescue Oliver last time and (even though they don't know it) Oliver was the only thing that stopped Ra's from killing them all after that stunt.

Of course he said no, they were all about to die and there were no immediate good options.  And as far as what they are supposed to do, I think I've been pretty clear that what I want them to do is discuss possibilities.  That is literally all I'm asking for.  For them to care enough that he is in hell being made into a murdermonkey to save Thea's/the rest of their lives to BRAINSTORM.

 

 

I do think this somewhat different then when he landed gut-wounded on a rock pillow, his fate at that time was uncertain, and he was still "their Oliver", they did not want to face that he was lost to them, but now his fate IS certain, and he made the choice to save Thea's life,and like others said Bejeweld Dustered Plot Contrivance has shown that Oliver and Starling and certainly Thea will be sacrificed if Oliver doesn't stay Al-Sahim. So Al-Sahim he will stay until....he's not.

I guess I see it the exact opposite way.  They had, per Malcolm's bloody sword, every reason to think Oliver was actually dead and rotting.  Until recently, this show was not Supernatural, so dead meant dead.  On the other hand, being in the LOA is not dead.  It's metaphorically dead, but not actually dead.  Metaphorically dead is not even "mostly dead," it's "literally alive."  

Edited April 28, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[Morrigan2575]

Of course he said no, they were all about to die and there were no immediate good options.  And as far as what they are supposed to do, I think I've been pretty clear that what I want them to do is discuss possibilities.  That is literally all I'm asking for.  For them to care enough that he is in hell being made into a murdermonkey to save Thea's/the rest of their lives to BRAINSTORM.

And as many others have pointed out 1) there's 40 minutes in the episode unaccounted for and we have no idea what's happening in those 40 minutes. 2) the Episode Description for 322 indicates they're going on a rescue mission for Oliver and 3) DR already said TA is going to bring Oliver back.  

[catrox14]

Of course he said no, they were all about to die and there were no immediate good options.  And as far as what they are supposed to do, I think I've been pretty clear that what I want them to do is discuss possibilities.  That is literally all I'm asking for.  For them to care enough that he is in hell being made into a murdermonkey to save Thea's/the rest of their lives to BRAINSTORM.

 

I guess I see it the exact opposite way.  They had, per Malcolm's bloody sword, every reason to think Oliver was actually dead and rotting.  Until recently, this show was not Supernatural, so dead meant dead.  On the other hand, being in the LOA is not dead.  It's metaphorically dead, but not actually dead.  Metaphorically dead is not even "mostly dead," it's "literally alive."  

 

I don't understand why you are making the assumption that this isn't going to happen. I personally don't care about watching them brainstorm before the plan is implemented because I assume there will be one. I want to be surprised.

[AyChihuahua]

 

And as many others have pointed out 1) there's 40 minutes in the episode unaccounted for and we have no idea what's happening in those 40 minutes. 2) the Episode Description for 322 indicates they're going on a rescue mission for Oliver and 3) DR already said TA is going to bring Oliver back.

That is a different argument.  If it happens but just hasn't been/isn't shown, that's fine with me.  But that is a different argument than that they should just let him go because it was his choice or there are no obvious options or whatever.  The latter is what I would not be okay with.

 

 

I don't understand why you are making the assumption that this isn't going to happen. I personally don't care about watching them brainstorm before the plan is implemented because I assume there will be one. I want to be surprised.

I'm making that assumption because that is what the sneak peeks and the end of the last episode are indicating.  Obviously at some point they do go get him back, but I'm unhappy if they have some extended (three-week) period in which they are writing him off and throwing him a wake, as if he were dead.

Edited April 28, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[catrox14]

That is a different argument.  If it happens but just hasn't been/isn't shown, that's fine with me.  But that is a different argument than that they should just let him go because it was his choice or there are no obvious options or whatever.  The latter is what I would not be okay with.

 

I'm making that assumption because that is what the sneak peeks and the end of the last episode are indicating.  Obviously at some point they do go get him back, but I'm unhappy if they have some extended (three-week) period in which they are writing him off and throwing him a wake, as if he were dead.

 

I spent most of s9 of SPN freaking out over the sneak peeks and sypnoses before I realized that the stuff the CW promo monkeys release often bear little resemblance to what ends up on screen. They also spoil the shit out of some really good stuff too.

 

I think being upset with TA over sneak peeks out of context seem premature at this point.  Maybe throwing him a wake is not really wrong especially if it's part of a ruse to for Ra's to think they've given up. 

Edited April 28, 2015 by catrox14

[Morrigan2575]

Sneak peeks are from within the first 5 minutes of the show.  We have no idea what will happen in the rest of the episode.

Edited April 28, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[apinknightmare]

I guess I just don't care if they've actively tried to get him back. I'm sure none of them just resigned themselves to leaving him there for all eternity. I'm guessing Felicity probably thinks about it while she's trying to sleep, Thea probably does too. Digg and Lyla probably strategize about it and come up with nothing viable. I don't need to see that at all, and I wouldn't be surprised if I don't get it, especially because of the three-week time jump. They wanted to have Evil!Oliver, they needed some time to do it, and since the following two eps happen within days of each other, I'm sure it gives them an opening or an idea that they needed. We'll see. 

 

If you have any kind of doubts about how the team feels about Oliver, then yeah, I get wanting to see that. I don't have any doubts about it whatsoever, so it doesn't matter to me.

[Sakura12]

Somebody better put this up on Youtube. It looks so stupid. I guess they didn't learn from Smallville that, this power does not translate well to live action. 

 

[apinknightmare]

I'm going to allow myself to be entertained by the Canary Cry. Looks like she's having the poo of her life!

[Morrigan2575]

anyone have a gif or screen cap of Sara/Canary doing that cry in 213 when Dinah was kidnapped?  I want to compare.

 

found it

 

Edited April 28, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[SonofaBiscuit]

Who is she screaming at, anyways?  Ra's Ollie Ghul?  He does have access to those special LoA tranq darts now...just sayin.

[apinknightmare]

Who is she screaming at, anyways?  Ra's Ollie Ghul?  He does have access to those special LoA tranq darts now...just sayin.

 

Pretty sure it's directed at Oliver.

 

PARDON ME, I MEANT TO WRITE AL SAH-HIM

anyone have a gif or screen cap of Sara/Canary doing that cry in 213 when Dinah was kidnapped?  I want to compare.

 

found it

 

 

 

Looks equally ridiculous to me, haha. 

[Sakura12]

Of course they both look stupid, screaming really loudly is not a cool power. No one can make that look good. 

[Reba]

In the screenshot from Rogue Air that is in the parking garage, anyone else hearing Barry say "Dude, what is up with this new getup?"

[blixie]

Yeah it looked stupid in Push too, but I think that movie was smarter about portraying the effects of the scream rather than focusing on the screamer. And the actual sound of it was more sonic than screechy.

[catrox14]

In Sara's case she was screaming out of anger and fear with her mom being kidnapped. That wasn't being used as her super power. She had the cool device for that. It was a nod to the Canary cry nothing more.

Edited April 28, 2015 by catrox14

[SonofaBiscuit]

If Barry thinks that the Arrow is a douche, wait until he meets Al Sah-him.

Edited April 28, 2015 by SonofaBiscuit

[kismet]

Honestly, I wish they had made Oliver EvilOliver sooner in the season so that there could actually be some tension as to how long it takes before TA steps in and rescues him. Its like the whole Climb death you knew it was not permanent and it was a guessing game as to when they would revive him. Of course they then did it the next episode, so it was all for nothing. Especially now that we have Grieving redeux with 7 stages not 5 (it is a legit grief theory) but still. We all know there are only 3 episodes left & the practicality of leaving Al-Sahim over the summer break is just not gonna happen. There is just no suspense in this story or timeline. For all the dragging this season did, they could have upped the pace a little more on some of the bigger elements.

[Genki]

I can understand what everyone is saying about trying to get Oliver back vs. mourning him like he is dead. And while I'm OK with Team Arrow regrouping and not knowing Oliver is brainwashed and missing him, I will not be OK with them rallying solely for the purpose of saving Nyssa.

 

When they go to Nanda Parbat again, to save Nyssa, they have to be actively trying to break Oliver from Ra's brainwashing and not giving up on him. I will not be OK them just accepting "He's not Oliver anymore" With any other show I wouldn't worry about it, but this show's track record doesn't leave me that confident.

 

This season does seem so damn repetitive. 

[kismet]

My newest theory is that there will be an in-show time jump in the last 5 minutes of the show that will skip over the 3 months that are covered in the hiatus/3.5 comics.  There will be some mini-cliffhanger in the last 10 minutes of the show that will somehow tie up the LoA story, likely with Nyssa in charge. But we will not see OQ return to SC or officially surrender his title of Al-Shahim. I feel like they want to keep their options open for the comics. Will probably get a cut to the new s4 villain, then quick cut to scene that says "4 months later" in subtitles. In that scene we will see OQ & FS driving off in the sunset, referencing ready to go home now that LoA thing over. She'll probably say a lot of things have changed since you've been gone (implying new villain, spin-off). End season.

Edited April 28, 2015 by kismet

[tv echo]

Just watched that sneak peek of the dinner scene... loved the shot of baby Sara.  However, after Felicity spoke, Thea gave her this look like, "who are you".  I wonder if Thea knows what Felicity's relationship is to Oliver now.  They barely met and rarely interacted up to now.

[wonderwall]

Just watched that sneak peek of the dinner scene... loved the shot of baby Sara.  However, after Felicity spoke, Thea gave her this look like, "who are you".  I wonder if Thea knows what Felicity's relationship is to Oliver now.  They barely met and rarely interacted up to now.

Perfect reaction tbqh. I just hope they get more scenes together within the episode so they can start building a friendship

[kismet]

Just watched that sneak peek of the dinner scene... loved the shot of baby Sara.  However, after Felicity spoke, Thea gave her this look like, "who are you".  I wonder if Thea knows what Felicity's relationship is to Oliver now.  They barely met and rarely interacted up to now.

Picked up on that too. I wonder if there might be some tension between them in what course of direction to take regarding OQ rescue mission. I hope not, but you know how these writers get when it comes to female-female interaction. It is kinda ironic that Thea is turning to Diggle/Felicity, when really up until this season, they rarely ever interacted. Im pretty sure the only reason Thea went to Dyla's wedding was as Roy's guest. Perhaps that is what makes Laurel's absence seem more prominent, she is the only one left on the show that had a relationship with Thea outside of Oliver, but somehow the show has forgotten that.

[apinknightmare]

I don't think the show has forgotten that Laurel and Thea have a relationship - just a few eps ago Laurel went to check in on Thea after she failed at getting Ra's to murder Malcolm. We could always fanwank that Laurel knew that Thea was okay, but didn't know that Oliver had to give himself up to the League to make that happen.

Edited April 28, 2015 by apinknightmare