Spoiler Discussion Thread

[apinknightmare]

Whatever reason we as individual viewers watch for, for the EPs the big thing about the show has always been the comics: masks, costumes and villains.  It makes sense to get the sex out of the way before the finale so viewers can get excited about whatever action stuff is going to happen and the set-up for next season.  Same with Moira's death, which was in 220 to make way for the Slade take-down.

 

Oh, I definitely get that they want to focus on other stuff, it was just the wording of it that had me worried. But I can see them wanting to get it out of the way before the finale so they don't have this dangling storyline and can focus on the action. I just interpreted it as them wanting to get it out of the way because after the events of the finale it's not going to realistically be something they'll do (aka, Oliver and Felicity won't end the season in a good place). But that's just the unrelenting cynic in me.

[wonderwall]

Oh, I definitely get that they want to focus on other stuff, it was just the wording of it that had me worried. But I can see them wanting to get it out of the way before the finale so they don't have this dangling storyline and can focus on the action. I just interpreted it as them wanting to get it out of the way because after the events of the finale it's not going to realistically be something they'll do (aka, Oliver and Felicity won't end the season in a good place). But that's just the unrelenting cynic in me.

 

Hold onto what Andy from twitter saw ;) I know them riding off into the sunset is kinda out there (lol only on Arrow would a couple who are so in love with each other riding off into a sunset would be 'out there'), but I'm holding onto that hope :)

[BkWurm1]

When Maseo was going on about holding his child and telling him it would be ok and knowing the last words he said a lie...yeah, that sounded like way more than something to garner sympathy for Maseo.  That was the show's way of threatening Diggle's family.  I first went to Baby Sara with an Oh Shit, but beside her being a BABY, he can't lie to a baby so yeah, now I'm verrrry worried for Lyla.  At the very least they are going to bring us close to thinking she's going to die.   

[kismet]

Just saw the et exclusive clip. Im collecting my winnings now with bonus points on the ray break-up. Knew it would be him & score for me on the jello! Not how I wanted it but thank goodness its over. And good guy points for rp letting them use his jet :)

Edited April 22, 2015 by kismet

[BkWurm1]

TWO MINUTES!!!!!!!!

[apinknightmare]

So, the Canadian promo - Oliver now has no memory? 

 

And I'm guessing he either kills or injures Diggle pretty severely. Ugh.

[Hook75]

So, the Canadian promo - Oliver now has no memory? 

 

And I'm guessing he either kills or injures Diggle pretty severely. Ugh.

 

I guess this is the most disappointed moment in his character that SA talked about.

[apinknightmare]

I guess this is the most disappointed moment in his character that SA talked about.

 

Yeah, probably. 

 

What I want to know is if he's just playing some long game and pretending, or if he legit somehow got miraculously brainwashed by that brand.

[nksarmi]

I am NOT looking forward to what happens between Diggle and Oliver - nope, not at all.

 

I am looking forward to seeing Nyssa and Laurel fighting together - don't hate me - I want to see what Nyssa has taught her and I want to see Laurel put herself out there for her dead sister's lover.  I'm so over the LoA plot that I have to look for things to enjoy - I'm really looking forward to Roy and Thea in 22.

[SleepDeprived]

^^ Yeah, I speculated about that. I mean, Oliver will probably threaten Diggle's family but I just don't think the show will go there and kill off Lyla or Sara. That's something Diggle will never forgive Oliver for (neither would I, as a viewer, probably). But an injury to Diggle that probably results in a loss of/minimized function to some extremity/body part, that could still be forgivable and would certainly reverberate through to S4, as well as affect Team Arrow dynamics significantly.

 

Also, DR said he was getting a suit or something since he got a complete body scan recently. Maybe Diggle 2.0 means he'll have a robotic-ish body part, courtesy of Palmer, I guess?

[apinknightmare]

If he just injures Diggle, then I'll think he's playing a long game, but why on earth would Ra's allow Oliver to just injure him? I need to stop trying to make sense of it.

[Guest]

My desire to watch 321 just went down by fifty billion points. I'm here for Nyssa and Felicity/Diggle scenes but I can pretty much take or leave Laurel at this point and I have no interest in seeing Oliver hurt Diggle in such a way that it has repercussions for a while. Ugh. I dread to think.

[Soulfire]

I wonder if it won't be one of those things where Oliver/Al Sah-Him goes in to "kill" Diggle knowing that Team Arrow will band together in time to stop him.

[GirlvsTV]

My desire to watch 321 just went down by fifty billion points. I'm here for Nyssa and Felicity/Diggle scenes but I can pretty much take or leave Laurel at this point and I have no interest in seeing Oliver hurt Diggle in such a way that it has repercussions for a while. Ugh. I dread to think.

Yeah, I'm tired of Sad!Felicity, not interested in anything Laurel related and really not here for Evil!Oliver. I'll hold out hope for 3x22 then.

[AyChihuahua]

I cannot emphasize enough how much I am not here for Evil Oliver.  Grotesque thing to do to the "hero" of the show.  

 

Quite sure he won't kill/injure Lyla or Sara, or too badly injure Diggle.  Probably kidnap them.  I won't know, because I hate this season so much that I didn't tune in for puppeteering Ray or the sex scene...SO TIRED OF THE ANGST AND CONSTANT MISERY.

[GirlvsTV]

I cannot emphasize enough how much I am not here for Evil Oliver.  Grotesque thing to do to the "hero" of the show.  

Well, at least it's a male character's agency being compromised for a change.

[Chaser]

The preview for 3x21 looked better that I expected. I was expecting LAUREL LAUREL LAUREL and instead I got Oliver and Nyssa. 

 

Still in wait and see mode for that one.

[BkWurm1]

I have a feeling that at the end of 3.21 I am going to be fuming over where the show goes. 

 

Oliver is going to do something terrible to Diggle and at this point I can only hope it directly is Diggle and not his family.  I also think if Felicity is supposed to go through all the stages of grief, he's going to have done something that makes her accept that Oliver is gone - I just sincerely hope it doesn't lead to her giving up on bringing him back.

 

There was an article that said that Ray and Felicity were over, over, right?  They wouldn't send Felicity back to Ray so that Oliver's last request (for her to find some happiness) could be fulfilled?  The gal in the car riding off into the sunset certainly sounded like EBR, are we sure the guy driving was SA and not someone else??   Please reassure me.   Three weeks of madness starting now. 

[apinknightmare]

There was an article that said that Ray and Felicity were over, over, right?  They wouldn't send Felicity back to Ray so that Oliver's last request (for her to find some happiness) could be fulfilled?  The gal in the car riding off into the sunset certainly sounded like EBR, are we sure the guy driving was SA and not someone else??   Please reassure me.   Three weeks of madness starting now. 

 

Yeah, there's an interview in the SPOILERS ONLY thread where MG confirms that Ray and Felicity are over. 

 

It will be really difficult for me to accept if Felicity gives up on him now, after everything.

[Chaser]

Ray and Felicity are DONE. Apparently they share a moment in 3x22, but it is not romantic. 

 

I wonder if Oliver is going to do something horrible to save Diggle's life? Like shooting a guy in his kneecap so he can't run to his death.

 

Honestly, I'm still on a high from 3x20 that I almost don't even want to think about the next few episodes.

 

We have been over the stages of grief with Felicity and this time she knows he isn't dead just forced into a life he doesn't want. I can't imagine her giving up on him. I think they meant to put that line about happiness in there as foreshadowing. I think she is going to fight for him.

Edited April 23, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[Guest]

Ray and Felicity are definitely done. There's no going back there now. So I'm not worried about Felicity giving up on Oliver, not after it's taken her so long to accept and acknowledge her feelings for him. I still think she'll try to get him back. I wouldn't be surprised if it's her (and Thea) who bring Oliver back from his evil! persona.

 

But I am really worried about the Oliver/Diggle stuff. There are some things you can't come back from and I don't trust these writers or EP's to know exactly what that is. They tend to have a disconnect with their audience at times. So I'm kind of dreading it tbh.

[statsgirl]

Would they be so stupid as to write Felicity giving up on Oliver now, after spending the season supporting him?  Would Felicity give up trying to save him in a mere two episodes?  Given what MG said

"The last three episodes spend a lot of time addressing the question of is there hope for Oliver?," Guggenheim says. "Is there hope for Oliver in Felicity's mind? [Episodes] 21 and 22 have some very specific things to say about that"

I'm expecting either Thea or Felicity will save him in episode 322, just in time for the big finale called "I am Oliver Queen".

 

Raylicity is done like dinner, which means I can look forward to scenes between Brandon Routh and EBR again.  I always thought they'd be a great friendship.

Edited April 23, 2015 by statsgirl

[jay741982]

Felicity will never give up on Oliver Queen

[BkWurm1]

Honestly, I'm still on a high from 3x20 that I almost don't even want to think about the next few episodes.

 

Yeah, me too, but apparently I'm incapable of not looking ahead. 

 

I'm expecting either Thea or Felicity will save him in episode 322, just in time for the big finale called "I am Oliver Queen".

 

Maybe we'd get Oliver back at the end of 3.22 but I think it's more likely we won't get Oliver back until sometime in 3.23.  

[Soulfire]

@apinknightmare -- I just realized they might do another Alias nod with Diggle and Oliver. Have Oliver stab/mortally wound him, seemingly "killing" him, then leaving him for Team Arrow to be picked up a la Sydney stabbing Vaughn.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Soulfire

[SleepDeprived]

So, I guess, one of the ways Ra's will be brainwashing Oliver in the 3 weeks between this episode and next week's is giving Oliver a close shave then chaining him and locking him in the dungeon?

 

 

Diggle's Angels? Or Birds of Diggle (wait, that sounds wrong...)?

 

[apinknightmare]

Shit's going down - Felicity's wearing pants again.

[Carrie Ann]

I'm sorry, it is so ridiculous to see four people walking, three of them with no disguise at all and then the Black Canary in all her Buckles. I'll assume there's a reason she's in full costume and the others are there but not incognito, but it just throws this whole costume/code name thing into sharp relief.

 

And I want that Alias stabbing thing to happen. I really don't want to believe that this show would kill Akio in FB and put Baby Sara in danger in the present day. So, God help me, I am hoping that Oliver does hurt Dig. Just leave Lyla and the baby alone.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Carrie Ann

[apinknightmare]

Well, the Canary Cry looks about like I thought it would. And I seriously hope Diggle has some protection in his ears because glass is shattering and he's standing there like nothing's happening? 

[chaos is welcome]

Well, the Canary Cry looks about like I thought it would. And I seriously hope Diggle has some protection in his ears because glass is shattering and he's standing there like nothing's happening?

I can. Not. Stop. Laughing. I am pretty sure that wasn't what they were going for.

Some things are better left in the comics y'all.

[Password]

Not going to lie, the most I got from that promo was Laurel screaming. I laughed so hard.

[apinknightmare]

This also makes me feel better about Lyla and Sara:

 

 

But something will happen to Diggle “that really upends Diggle’s world – it’s certainly vis-à-vis Oliver,” he hinted. “That’s something that will have repercussions for the remainder of the season.” At least he’ll have his wife Lyla for moral support. “Right now her biggest responsibility is being supportive of Diggle because Diggle’s going through some very difficult times.”

[Chaser]

That didn't sound like a sonic scream. It sounded more like an echoey screech.

 

The original version they introduced was perfect. An electronic device that could serve in a flash grenade capacity.  

Edited April 23, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[catrox14]

Oh gods. The Canary Cry is a stupid as I thought it would be. This is one of those times that how it is in the comics does not translate to the screen IMO. It didn't work for Alaina Huffman and that woman can act circles around most people.  Sigh

[apinknightmare]

Yeah, it's not got anything to do with Laurel at all, I just think it's one of those things that works in comics and is trickier to pull off, mostly because it looks kind of funny? I liked the solution they came up with for Sara, and I was (and am) pro-collar, but it would've worked better for me if she didn't have to actually scream to get it to work. 

 

And also if it didn't sound like a car accident was happening in the background, but maybe it'll sound better in non-promo form. 

[Guest]

Yeah. Um. I understand why they gave Laurel the canary cry because it's part of what makes her BC (even though I think it should have waited until next season) but that doesn't look or sound great tbh. I was worried I'd just end up laughing when she uses it and I think I was right. Hopefully BC fans don't mind it though.

[BkWurm1]

So if Lyla is there to provide support (and not need it herself) then chances are Sara and Lyla are safe but I'm really wondering if the one they are putting in a wheelchair is Diggle.  

[kismet]

@apinknightmare -- I just realized they might do another Alias nod with Diggle and Oliver. Have Oliver stab/mortally wound him, seemingly "killing" him, then leaving him for Team Arrow to be picked up a la Sydney stabbing Vaughn.

Thank u! I was blinded by my 320 haze, that I forgot to reference my Alias knowledge to figure out all the ways this show can still mess with us on some many character & plot levels. There are so many different options. I still wonder when Malcolm will just become the real Sloane. Im over his redemption arc, somehow it was much more believable in Alias.

[looptab]

Forever laughing at the Canary Cry. It just looks ridiculous, and it's a pity. I can't decide whether I like the idea of evil Oliver or not, I guess that depends on how it's gonna play out. But I'm loving all this Alias talk :)

[Jillibean]

I thought it was interesting that MG made a point of saying that the writers had to take Oliver and Felicity's first time off the table before the season finale. My guess? Oliver and Felicity do end the season together, as previously speculated/possibly spoiled, but it doesn't work time/pacing-wise to have them have a love scene in what I'm sure will be an action-packed finale. At the same time, the writers knew they had to provide that for fans--fans have waited for this pairing, so they couldn't have them establish coupledom in the season finale, have the time jump, and come back five months later unless they had already shown their love scene. 

 

If this isn't the case, there's no real reason why the scene couldn't have waited until next season. (Hopeful shrug.)

[Velocity23]

Seems Thea will be suiting up in 3x21 according to the New Zealand Promo.

[Morrigan2575]

I thought that was Malcolm that shot Oliver?

ETA: Sound helps. LOL it was Thea.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[dtissagirl]

I almost feel relieved that Oliver IS brainwashed -- and perhaps THAT is the loophole Stephen mentioned? -- and that whatever terrible thing he does, he does it to Diggle himself, and not Lyla and Sara. 

 

I just wish for Oliver to get un-mind-controlled by the end of this episode, and that 322-323 are about taking down the LoA, or giving it to Nyssa [or Malcolm], because I NEED THIS STORYLINE TO END ASAP.

 

I'm holding out hope that the MIA official descriptions for the last two episodes indicate that they want to keep the illusion of Ra's Ollie Ghul being something permanent.

Edited April 23, 2015 by dancingnancy

[Starfish35]

Just watched the promo. She's actually literally screaming? *facepalm* Whhhhyyyyyyyyyyyy? That's worse than I thought. I never thought she'd actually be screaming. I mean, that's one thing if that's your metahuman power, but why would Cisco make Laurel a device that's activated by screaming? That makes no sense from any practical perspective, and it looks soooooo stupid. This is another of those dumb "because comics" things with Laurel and I am so sick of it. Someone please tell me she's leaving after this season.

*deep breath* Sorry. I'm super grumpy this morning. Moving on.

Yes, I'm joining the chorus of being worried about what Oliver's going to do to Diggle. :( But looking forward to more Nyssa. And I'm really hoping we find out something about Sara soon.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Starfish35

[apinknightmare]

Just watched the promo. She's actually literally screaming? *facepalm* Whhhhyyyyyyyyyyyy? That's worse than I thought. I never thought she'd actually be screaming. I mean, that's one thing if that's your metahuman power, but why would Cisco make Laurel a device that's activated by screaming? That makes no sense from any practical perspective, and it looks soooooo stupid. 

 

See, I think it does make sense from a practical perspective - she's got a weapon that she can use without using her hands to activate it. I think it's kind of handy, I just think it looks really stupid in reality. And it's another one of those things where I'll wonder why she doesn't use it all the time. Someone on another board said that the actual Canary Cry doesn't affect people who are standing behind the Black Canary (I have no idea if that's true), so maybe that's how this works, but if it does then why doesn't everyone huddle behind her every time there's some shit going down and then she can scream at the perps, incapacitate them and send them to Quentin or whatever stooge is running the SCPD?

Edited April 23, 2015 by apinknightmare

[raytch]

Sara & Nyssa could happen. If Sara is revived somehow in 3.21 they could marry in 3.22. Sara is going to the spin-off. Right now, Nyssa is a recurring character and Laurel's trainer. MG said he didn't know if the marriage would last into S4 which could simply be trolling. Since KL is recurring they might be unsure of where they want to go with Nyssa's character.

Crack theory: Nyssa has been traveling back and forth between SC and NP frequently until recently. Nyssa already used the LP on Sara without permission. (I am skipping the problems with the gravesite because they would in-show.) She didn't come back as quite the same Sara as we know so Nyssa has been hiding her as she tries to help her. No need to tell the family as she's not their Sara. There is a breakthrough in 3.21 which is Nyssa's episode. Cue marriage in 3.22. Lance family is now aware and QL loses some of his vengefulness. Sara could still go to spin-off looking for a fresh start but be in contact with her family.

I think I am on the anyone but Oliver/Felicity marriage train. I love O&F but I don't want to listen to demands for babies in S4 from fandom. I want them to get back to action/adventure.

 

 

I think that theory makes most sense. I really hope they don't go with an Olicity wedding and especially not because of a pregnancy.

I like Felicity and Oliver together and I like how they were handled in last night's episode. I want their relationship to have some time on its own without having it be the main plot drive. Here's to hoping the writers won't screw this up...

[apinknightmare]

Also, I'm really excited to see Thea suiting up in the NZ promo. And that it seems like it's gonna be her vs. Oliver to save...who was Oliver threatening there? Malcolm or Diggle?

[chaos is welcome]

Just watched the promo. She's actually literally screaming? *facepalm* Whhhhyyyyyyyyyyyy? That's worse than I thought. I never thought she'd actually be screaming. I mean, that's one thing if that's your metahuman power, but why would Cisco make Laurel a device that's activated by screaming? That makes no sense from any practical perspective, and it looks soooooo stupid. This is another of those dumb "because comics" things with Laurel and I am so sick of it. Someone please tell me she's leaving after this season.

*deep breath* Sorry. I'm super grumpy this morning. Moving on.

Yes, I'm joining the chorus of being worried about what Oliver's going to do to Diggle. :( But looking forward to more Nyssa. And I'm really hoping we find out something about Sara soon.

Given how rushed everything has been with Laurel this season, and the fact they literally have nothing left of her story (she has everything bc comic version had now, except oliver, and well...), and how hard they pushed sara in 2b only to dumpster thump her....I really have renewed hope she isn't returning in S3.

[Carrie Ann]

I think that theory makes most sense. I really hope they don't go with an Olicity wedding and especially not because of a pregnancy.

I like Felicity and Oliver together and I like how they were handled in last night's episode. I want their relationship to have some time on its own without having it be the main plot drive. Here's to hoping the writers won't screw this up...

 

MG confirmed at the 320 press screening that Felicity is not going to be pregnant, so we can rest easy about that part at least. I also feel like the 322 wedding is less and less likely to be O/F and I couldn't be happier about that.

[nksarmi]

So if Lyla is there to provide support (and not need it herself) then chances are Sara and Lyla are safe but I'm really wondering if the one they are putting in a wheelchair is Diggle.  

Yea I didn't really consider that the irreparable damage with repercussions into season four could be Diggle unable to walk, but that would do it.  They could also give him the Arsenal story and take an arm.

 

Regarding the wedding, I know I sound like a broken record and I know it sounds weird, but I just would not be surprised at all if the EPs considered a wedding for Roy and Thea to be closure/ending/etc....

 

I'd rather it be Nyssa and Sara though.

Edited April 23, 2015 by nksarmi