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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

Spoiler Discussion Thread

Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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strikera0

strikera0

(edited)

Maybe it's because I'm not taking this seriously, but I thought the promo was fun. I wish it would have featured Nyssa, though. She's a much better character than her boring, on-screen father and played by a capable, charismatic actress.

Edited by strikera0
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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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kismet

kismet

I love that song but does it fit Olicity?

Parts, esp the first stanza about a lover with humor, worshiping somebody sooner. But I would say overall NO. I mean its fine for fanvid, but not canon lovemaking.

 

The whole song is supposed to be about using love & sex as a means to find your way, guiding principle & celebration of life. It sorta takes a few punches at organized religion and some of the bias & indoctrinations about sexuality & religion. It was also used in the LGBT communities esp in Russia & Ireland. So it's not really ideal for the Arrow in my opinion as it diminishes what Hozier was trying to do with his song's message. http://www.motherjones.com/mixed-media/2014/03/interview-hozier-take-me-church-homophobia-video

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steeledwithakiss

steeledwithakiss

(edited)

Also when they choose music for those kind of scenes, the lyrics are important but also the vibe of the song. I feel the rhythm of some of the songs I saw tossed around wouldn't go with a (I'm pretty sure) goodbye love scene.

 

Then again it's the show that thought "Radioactive" was a good song choice for the first time of their main couple (at least they were supposed to be in s1, right?).

Edited by steeledwithakiss
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kismet

kismet

Last thing I will say about the promo is I think they were going for an Avengers meets Fight Club feel. I bet they are trying to monopolize on the Avengers pandemonium that is hitting the airways with the upcoming movie. Its the same reason the comics 2.5 probably had OQ in a hockey mask to monopolize on some of his Casey Jones/TMNT press. They are looking to gain viewers & pull in money wherever they can get it. Its a business decision. I don't agree with it and feel like it wouldn't have cost them anything to acknowledge the other members of the superhero teams that are critical to them doing their job. But it is what it is. Moving forward here's hoping they learn that there is more ways to draw an audience than just CGI, costumes & masks.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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The real question is that although it was cute, I kinda have to ask: are they trying to turn Ray into bumbling superhero? I know this makes no sense given the rest of his introduction/background - 3 PhDs, successful businessman, and so on

You know, that's not a bad idea. Personally I found BR entertaining in Partners and Scott Pilgrim. I could see Ray being very entertaining in a nutty professor (Jerry Lewis version) role.

There would be some drawbacks, comparisons to Clark Kent and even Barry but i think it could work

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catrox14

catrox14

Just a quick reminder that characters on Flash belong in the Flash topic (unless they are actually showing up on an Arrow episode). 

 

What are the rules then on talking about a joint promo?

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ostentatious

ostentatious

(edited)

Have we talked about Doctor Light as Felicity's dad lately? I mean, the genius and the "light" thing they have going on with her all the time...and he does exist in the show, he's been mentioned. Suicide Squad affiliation...hopefully not going with the rape thing. 

Edited by ostentatious
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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

(edited)

I'd rather they have the score playing. I've never gotten a feeling that the songs on Arrow are thought out to fit the actual writing. Hence the Radioactive hilarity. I also remember they played The National's Hard to Find over the Dig/Lyla morning after scene in 206, and really, random song is random. There are better songs for a morning after scene in that same The National album, even.

Contrast with last week on iZombie, they opened the episode with Sufjan Stevens' They Are Night Zombies!!, and I basically had a meltdown over the sheer brilliancy of being on the nose about the soundtrack. And I know Rob Thomas obsesses over the songs he uses because he talked about it tons during VMars. And this was the kind of song pick that ONLY HIM could get away with.

Edited by dancingnancy
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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Have we talked about Doctor Light as Felicity's dad lately? I mean, the genius and the "light" thing they have going on with her all the time...and he does exist in the show, he's been mentioned.

not lately. He was suggested after 213 but I think most people are focused on Damien Darhk now
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kismet

kismet

It does sorta feel like there is no real music geek behind the song choices on Arrow. Some shows & producers just nail it like DancingNancy mentioned. Shonda Rhimes & her team always pick amazing sounds that capture the mood or character of the moment. I think True Blood actually named everyone of their episodes after the song that played in the closing credits, and they were generally good choices for the episodes. Alias was good, actually a lot of JJ Abrams shows have been good. Usually the CW is best at pairing current music with their shows to cross market & make a profit. But if you're gonna use it for pivotal scenes, you have to be careful what songs you choose lyrics, style, beats & overall feeling. Some older & current CW shows have been better at picking songs that are truer to their story/characters. I don't think Arrow will ever be one of those better CW shows at using pop music. As for Radioactive, I think they were only looking to cross market & make a profit which is why the fit was a little off.

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Password

Password

(edited)

Maybe they'll start Ray out as a bumbling fool and work his way into being more coordinated.

It's a shame he's so smart. I would prefer him being a donut because his intelligence doesn't suit bumbling idiot.

About the song: when Oliver and Makenna slept together they had Kiss Me by Ed Sheeran playing in the background and I remember being annoyed by that. Such an awesome song wasted on what I knew was a temporary couple. Even though the lyric "I'm falling for your eyes but they don't know me yet" was fairly suitable I wanted it to play for a more long term couple.

Edited by Password
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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

 

And I know Rob Thomas obsesses over the songs he uses because he talked about it tons during VMars.

To the extent I ever had any cool cred re music, it was because of him.  I bought, and really love, nearly every song that ever appeared on VMars.  

 

Not watching the promo.  Don't hate myself.  

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catrox14

catrox14

I don't even care if they use popular music of any kind because IMO Blake Neely scoring should be enough. But then I'm so damn spoiled and the amazing use of music overall in Supernatural that I just want classic rock all the time. I'm such SPN trash it's pathetic

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

Dean could teach Oliver a master class on self-loathing.  I always think, dude, you've saved the world like 10 times, plus at least hundreds of individuals and you're the destined vessel of Archangel #1.  Maybe, just maybe, you're actually not loathsome.

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steeledwithakiss

steeledwithakiss

The only pop song choice I liked on Arrow was the one used for the Sara and Oliver hook up. It was so on point. I'm scared about what they are going to use for F/O because I don't think it could ever top it. And don't get me started on Kiss me for M/O, they broke up at the end of the same episode. It was such a waste of a beautiful song.

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quarks

quarks

You know, that's not a bad idea. Personally I found BR entertaining in Partners and Scott Pilgrim. I could see Ray being very entertaining in a nutty professor (Jerry Lewis version) role.

There would be some drawbacks, comparisons to Clark Kent and even Barry but i think it could work

 

It's against some of what they've said in the script so far, but seriously, successful billionaire by day, complete incompetent in flying suit at night, has a lot of advantages: distinguishes him from Iron Man and the coming Ant Man, helps distinguish him from Oliver, can bring a lot of levity to the new show, and has quite a lot of support within the last few episodes - say episodes 10 on.  And it gives him a very relatable flaw - and a story for the first couple of seasons on the spinoff.

 

It's not a new concept, of course, but it's not a bad one, and if they do go that route, I think it would really fit in with what we've seen so far, and could work.

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Password

Password

Oh my word I legit do not remember that song. Unfortunately for me I pretty much blank that scene out. As I also like to remember to forget Time of Death.

It's against some of what they've said in the script so far, but seriously, successful billionaire by day, complete incompetent in flying suit at night, has a lot of advantages: distinguishes him from Iron Man and the coming Ant Man, helps distinguish him from Oliver, can bring a lot of levity to the new show, and has quite a lot of support within the last few episodes - say episodes 10 on.  And it gives him a very relatable flaw - and a story for the first couple of seasons on the spinoff.

 

It's not a new concept, of course, but it's not a bad one, and if they do go that route, I think it would really fit in with what we've seen so far, and could work.

I can definitely get behind this imperfect version of Ray. He'd actually make me laugh.

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kismet

kismet

They just called Ray TIN MAN!. Now correct me if Im wrong, but I thought it was just social media & websites that had taken to affectionately or rudely calling him Tin Man?

 

Someone in the writers room has a pulse on what it being said on Twitter, Tumblr and websites like these, because seriously most of the snarky or well written put downs/comments have been seen in places all over the internet before they make it on to the script. So if you're out there Arrow scout and you reading these threads, please listen to some of the other stuff too, a lot of it is good material.

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Guest

Guest

Oh, I really don't want Roy to die. If he's stabbed, he could be the one in ICU. And I don't imagine Thea would go to NP if she knew Roy was in hospital so I'm still assuming she's the one who dies. For now. I just don't know. 

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wonderwall

wonderwall

 

“It’s computer hacker vs. computer hacker. This is sort of the beginning of that history, but we loved the idea that there’s a villain out there, who hates Felicity. She doesn’t know who’s on the other side of that terminal, but she knows that somebody out-hacked her, so we think that’s a lot of fun.”

 

AK said that it's the beginning of that history... Meaning will this plot point be extended next season??? Please YES. And let it be on Arrow

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Password

Password

You know what kills me? Didn't the EPs say you wouldn't have to watch both shows to know what's happening? And yes, Felicity's nemesis isnt related to Ra's, but she's getting actual villains on The Flash! We go that wonderful line about "quiet dreams you keep to yourself". Is she not important to the Arrow narrative?

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statsgirl

statsgirl

So they lied to us?  I'm shocked, shocked I tell you..

 

I had to look up Doctor Light but as a crazy genius villain, connected to both S.T.A.R. labs and ARGUS/Waller/the Suicide Squad, he's got potential.  Is he fairly recognizable though?  From what David Ramsey said, I got the impression that he was people would recognize as soon as we heard his name.

 

As he is someone forced to work for ARGUS, the writers have the option to keep him good or make him into a villain.

 

I will be very very unhappy if they kill off Roy. It's pointless

Tbh, I thought killing Moira and Sara was pointless too, for all they keep telling me it was story-necessitated.  They could have done both those stories a different way.

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MostlyC

MostlyC

There seems to be some confusion about where to post, given the upcoming episode.

 

We have determined that for now:

 

Do you want discuss the Flash episode this week with Arrow Characters, then it belongs in the Mind Your Surroundings topic OR the individual character topic for that particular character (with spoiler bars if you feel it might be spoilery).
 

Other examples:

 

Do you want to talk about Laurel's  development in what happens on the Flash Episode?  Then it goes  in the Laurel character topic.

 

If you want to talk Laurel and Cisco's scenes and interactions?  It goes into the Flash Episode thread.

 

You want to talk about Wells?  Or Barry and Iris:  The Flash Thread.

Should you want to talk about the two shows coming together for the "Spinoff Kick Off," then it belongs in The Spinoff topic.
 

Please note that there is a whole Flash Episode Topic and Thread in The Flash Topic where most conversation about The Flash episode should occur. It does not need to be discussed at length here on the Arrow forum.

 

If you have further questions, PM  me or one of the other Amazing Arrow Moderators (who are Just. That. Cool).

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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(edited)

From what David Ramsey said, I got the impression that he was people would recognize as soon as we heard his name.

That's the impression I got as well. Whoever her father is, he should be reconizable to people with average DC knowledge.

Problem is, I'm not sure how to quantify that. My first thought is, most easily recognizable characters are from Batman or Superman but it seems highly unlikely that it could be one of their characters.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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Starfish35

Starfish35

Are we still thinking the foundry's going to blow up during this episode? I was just reading back through the spoiler thread - I'd forgotten about "big developments for the fern in 319". Lol.

Also, this is the episode where "Laurel goes pretty far for Oliver". I was thinking she was going to end up losing her job, but now I don't know.

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Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)

I had thought whoever was dying would die in the foundry explosion, but assuming it's Thea (and I am assuming that), the promo makes it look like Ra's kills her at the apartment, and/or Roy dies in jail.

Edited by Starfish35
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steeledwithakiss

steeledwithakiss

I still think Roy is a red herring and Thea is the one dying. Everybody will be worried about Roy, trying to break him out of jail and then Thea is killed at the end of the episode gasp! Of course everybody had it figured it out months ago. Oh, well.

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foreverevolving

foreverevolving

I love that song but does it fit Olicity?

at least from Oliver point of view.

I've always loved these lines from the song:

 

"If I'm a pagan of the good times

My lover's the sunlight

To keep the Goddess on my side

She demands a sacrifice"

 

As well as:

 

"No masters or kings

When the ritual begins

There is no sweeter innocence than our gentle sin

 

In the madness and soil of that sad earthly scene

Only then I am human

Only then I am clean

Ooh oh. Amen. Amen. Amen."

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

I really don't want Roy to die. Let him lie in a coma like his Mirakuru induced sleep last season. No need to kill Roy, come on show.

How about just dosing him with the Mirikuru and then using the antidote right quick?  Star Labs is bound to have samples still on hand, right?

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

How about just dosing him with the Mirikuru and then using the antidote right quick?  Star Labs is bound to have samples still on hand, right?

 

No, STAR Labs used the last of the mirakuru they had to make the antidote, didn't they?

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jay741982

jay741982

at least from Oliver point of view.

I've always loved these lines from the song:

 

"If I'm a pagan of the good times

My lover's the sunlight

To keep the Goddess on my side

She demands a sacrifice"

 

As well as:

 

"No masters or kings

When the ritual begins

There is no sweeter innocence than our gentle sin

 

In the madness and soil of that sad earthly scene

Only then I am human

Only then I am clean

Ooh oh. Amen. Amen. Amen."

Those are the lines where I said "yep I see why it could possibly fit an Olicity love scene"

Not only watch both shows, but also read the Flash tie-in comics, because that's where Felicity first got her nemesis. I'm actualy curious if they're gonna reference it on the show.

I thought I read that Brie Larvan(Villian in tomorrow's flash episode) is her Nemesis from the Flash comic

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