Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Chaser]

The woman who took the hardest hit SA has ever seen taken -my first thought was that it was confirmation that Thea was dying and then I wondered if it was actually some kind of words of support about Katie Cassidy.

 

About the person going from show to show and that being their job, again my first thought also was Felicity by now I am more inclined to think it is Diggle.  They just don't seem to know what to do with Diggle apart from letting him bring his words of wisdom and VERY rarely letting him be back up.  If we have had him resolve that it is too much a risk to his family to be out in the field all the time, then him playing a more behind the scenes role for all the active teams could be a good and safer fit.   I don't like the idea of having less Diggle on Arrow but he's already being underused so maybe this will keep his screentime on Arrow and up it elsewhere.  Plus didn't we have a spoiler about he and Oliver's relationship taking a drastic change?

I'm still thinking its Thea. They like Laurel to keep her bruises and in the trailer she seems perfectly fine at the hanger and since it happens at the end of 3x19, I would think that wouldn't be the case.

 

I could see Diggle in that role. A Coulson-movie verse role.

Edited April 5, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[MsSchadenfreude]

 

Also, I am really uneasy with SA's answer at the con to the question of "will Olicity happen". ("I don't know, man.") I mean, he knows that the extended trailer is out there and what it shows, so there's no need to be coy about it, unless he knows it doesn't lead to anything. Does it get wiped out by time travel? Is it a one-and-done thing? Is he just playing up the idea that Oliver's going to be in the LoA and they'll be separated?

 

Just because the trailer is out there doesn't mean all the people attending the con know about it.  Not everyone is online and SA rarely gives any real spoilers at the cons.  Even when everyone knew Oliver wasn't really dead, he still kept insisting in cons and interviews that Oliver seemed pretty dead.

 

If they told us everything beforehand be it good or bad, why would we watch.

[Sakura12]

I don't think Laurel fits in with any of the characters, that is why her character never worked for me and still doesn't work for me. She doesn't flow with the characters, she interrupts them. Laurel may be accepted now (because there is no choice), But I don't see her getting more popular. I don't see the fandom demanding more of her. She's still about the same in media reviews, where most are like "And Laurel was there". It's only she's Black Canary I guess we're stuck with her, just don't let her ruin Team Arrow. 

[Chaser]

Yes it was. Both Berlanti and AJK "announced" the Lance/Cisco/Joe crossover at Paleyfest (which I mentioned). It was also announced in interviews with AJK that Felicity and Ray would go to The Flash (this was announced back at TCAs). The only appearance that wasn't announced was Laurel's which is why everyone was confused.

She showed up in the sizzle reel for Flash, none of the articles i read from Paleyfest even mention Laurel going to Flash. Then TV Line changes the wording on their announcement from Laurel going to Flash, to the scene being part of Joe/Cisco coming to Arrow.

Again, it was mass confusion because of how this crossover was set up but there was no attention paid by media, actors, producers or network that Laurel was going to be on The Flash. It wasn't until the episode description was released last week that everything was cleared up.

I'm assuming then that the Flash aligns with Arrow 3x20. I can't see them interacting with only Lance and Laurel if the others are in SC. Lance and West sure because they are cops (I guess Laurel too if she was playing ADA), but I believe there were BTS of Cisco with LL in costume. 

[Morrigan2575]

I'm pretty sure it's Thea in 319. I don't know if she'll actually die or if she'll be on death's door which is what will force Oliver to go to Ra's and agree to be Ra's Ollie Ghul

[nksarmi]

I don't think Laurel fits in with any of the characters, that is why her character never worked for me and still doesn't work for me. She doesn't flow with the characters, she interrupts them. Laurel may be accepted now (because there is no choice), But I don't see her getting more popular. I don't see the fandom demanding more of her. She's still about the same in media reviews, where most are like "And Laurel was there". It's only she's Black Canary I guess we're stuck with her, just don't let her ruin Team Arrow. 

To me, the issue is that Laurel / Black Canary shouldn't be part of "Team Arrow" where Oliver calls all the shots and is the unequivocal leader of the team.  I think in many ways, Oliver views Diggle as his equal and likely thought of Sara that way as well.  But HE still calls the shots and as much as he called Diggle a partner - he doesn't expect anyone to overrule him pretty much ever.  And even when Felicity and Roy disagree with what Oliver wants to do, they follow his lead.

 

While I realize that Laurel is only beginning to get the training she needs to be a believable action hero, Black Canary is not Green Arrow's sidekick.  Speedy and Arsenal are - but not BC.  If Laurel is going to earn her BC title, she needs a mission separate from Oliver.  So having her float on the shows and find her own purpose where she only teams up with Team Arrow some of the time would work for me.  It would be them on the equal ground that they belong on.

 

At the same time, I could see Roy coming into the role where he leaves Oliver and strikes out on his own due to this recent development where he takes the fall. 

[Tallis]

If Roy survives then he seems the most likely 'floater' character to me. If not Roy, then Thea (especially if she's grieving for Roy). I really doubt it being Laurel and I even more doubt it being Felicity as she is now pretty much the only non-combatent character left and it's the masks they have too many of.

[steeledwithakiss]

That's a really interesting spoiler to say the least. Someone from Arrow going from show to show? I could be anyone, except Oliver I think and Thea. I hope it's not Felicity/Diggle. I know MG said OG TA was a thing of the past, but I'm still in denial. And if they really want to tell Diggle's story (Hive and his brother) in s4, I would hope it'd be a season long thing. CH tweets about real life feelings coming into a scene and SA "last time ever" photo could mean Roy is not going to be really part of the team anymore. I could imagine Quentin in that role too because up until recently they didn't seem to know how to keep him relevant in every episode. Felicity would be the logical choice but I can't see the Arrow writers agreeing to share her that much when she's still I think the most popular character on their show.

[catrox14]

I can't see Thea being the floater because she just doesn't have the connections to the Flash or Ray that others have.  Laurel's connection to the Flash universe is being established by her meeting Cisco and him saying how much he loves her (/hoark).  Laurel has a connection to Ray even as an antagonist which will probably change sooner rather than later. 

 

I would laugh if it's Malcolm but IMO Malcolm could work as the floater for unexpected reasons. Malcolm is totally unpredictable and full on BSC.  And he's a proper likeable hateable villain who would have reason to go between cities.  And Berlanti LOVES Barrowman to boot and I think Barrowman said he has a long contract with the CW now.  And I don't believe they will really kill off Malcolm since Merlyn is Oliver's primary nemesis in the comics. 

Edited April 5, 2015 by catrox14

[steeledwithakiss]

I hadn't thought of Malcolm, smart!

[Carrie Ann]

Even though Felicity feels like the most logical option, I think it's incredibly unlikely to be her OR Diggle because though the show may have dropped the ball this season, they are aware that O/D/F is the most popular aspect of Arrow.

 

And as far as this role being a character's "job," well, who is paying them to do that job? To me, this sounds like it could be related to my ideal end of season scenario, which was that Team Arrow would be legitimized by the government. In that scenario, Lyla was in charge of things on the ARGUS side (after Waller was forced out of her job and ARGUS cleaned up), with Diggle as the liaison/tactical leader of TA.

 

So all my dreams could still come true, if Lyla basically takes over the Waller role since we are likely losing that character because of the movie. If we lose ARGUS altogether, then a new organization could be formed with the ethical backbone that ARGUS obviously lacks. And then Lyla could basically be traveling between the shows giving out missions (I mean, she just quit her job--what is the narrative purpose of that?) To me, that's the more crucial role that at least the spinoff needs: someone to give the Justice League some purpose. They can get their own Tech person--or like The Flash, just make do with references to Felicity setting them up with what they need--but if we have a dozen people/metahumans, we need some uniting goals other than a city to save. Especially when some of them may be participating reluctantly.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Carrie Ann

[steeledwithakiss]

SA said it would be their job? Yeah Lyla or Amanda seem more likely then.

[Sakura12]

Waller's done, like Deadshot, because of the movie. 

 

Lyla makes no sense because people don't know her that well. I still believe it the popularity of the character to bring in viewers. That makes Felicity the top candidate. Unless someone's heard that Audrey Marie Anderson is getting a bigger role next season. 

Edited April 5, 2015 by Sakura12

[apinknightmare]

People don't need to know her well. All they need to do is give her a mission or a storyline that ties her to three shows. This seems more like a storyline to tie the shows together thing than a "let's get a popular character to make people tune in" thing. More people watch The Flash than Arrow, so they wouldn't need Felicity to draw viewers over there at this point. The spinoff? Sure. But they can do that by having her guest a few times like they did with Flash.

Edited April 5, 2015 by apinknightmare

[looptab]

@Carrie Ann, I like your spec. The only issue for me is that we can't count that much on semantics, because if I'm not wrong SA said something like "they had the job done" when talking about the ruse at the end of season 2. So it could mean anything. 

 

If Flash is of any indication and  it's Felicity, though, I'm really conflicted, because as others already said, I want her stable on Team Arrow, and no episodes off. I resent so much she wasn't in 304.

OTOH, I'd really like to see a Felicity+Stein scene. So there's that. And I'm not even that interested in watching the spinoff, go figure.

[steeledwithakiss]

I don't think the person that's going to be liaison between the show has to be popular. It could only be a way to connect the shows. Lyla was an imortant part of the Flash crossover, she knows about Barry and Caitlin saved her. Ray married her and Diggle. The person that is going to float between the shows can't really be integral to Arrow. Lyla is the perfect candidate I think.

[catrox14]

I think the floater has to be integral to Arrow otherwise why would we care about following that character to other shows.

My crack candidate is Malcolm. But I think it will be Felicity or Diggle because removing Felicity and Diggle at various points allows Laurel to progress as Black Canary of the comics and keeps her closer to Oliver because I still think Lauriver is the endgame :(

[Starfish35]

I'm liking this train of thought. Whoever it is could be like Director Vance on the NCISes. Felicity is the obvious choice from a popularity standpoint, but not from a functional standpoint. She's not someone who could be overseeing and directing missions, and both Flash and the spinoff already have the science/tech positions covered. She's not needed there. The only reason that she's been the main crossover star is her popularity, to draw viewers. But would they do that on a long term basis?

Edited April 5, 2015 by Starfish35

[steeledwithakiss]

I just don't think we're supposed to care about "following" that character to the other shows. That's just a speculation of course, but it seems to me they just want someone to connect the 3 shows, like when they need to have a big team up fight someone connected to all the shows could coordinate (think Justice League).

 

[apinknightmare]

I don't think they have to be integral to Arrow, but they have to make whatever plot line they're going to put them in interesting enough for people to want to follow it from show to show. I don't think they can just throw a character like Felicity in there with no higher purpose and just expect people to tune in, regardless of how popular they are.

[catrox14]

I just don't think we're supposed to care about "following" that character to the other shows. That's just a speculation of course, but it seems to me they just want someone to connect the 3 shows, like when they need to have a big team up fight someone connected to all the shows could coordinate (think Justice League).

 

If they want to connect the shows all they have to do is use a line of dialogue from any of the existing characters to explain why so and so shows up.  The idea of the floater seems IMO to be a way to drive viewers to each show so I don't why it wouldn't be at least a semi-popular character/controversial or known character.

[Hook75]

I'm already sick of all the crossovers.

[looptab]

Exactly, the only criticism to the crossovers was that there wasn't a continuity of storyline but the characters were just 'visiting', so I can see them trying to come up with some story that would allow the crossovers and not having them feel as an event just for the sake of it.

[tarotx]

It depends on if it's about popularity or Something else. Is there going to be a lightly interwoven story among the 3 shows that would make a floater necessary for Plot?

I don't want it to be Fecility because I don't want her to be the not GF love interest on 3 shows. I want her to be doing things that matter not just to the plot but her as a Character. Diggle/Lyla have a family that they can be shown affected by travel and worrying about either or both in actiony moments. That can happen on 3 shows. They don't have to build their lives-just the ups and downs of living it. Felicity still has to have her story created. That needs to be on one show. I also would rather Diggle still be a Arrow main character over being a floater. But I can see them making that work For the character and not just plot. I can't see that option with Felicity.

And Laural should be a floater. She needs to create her BC cred. Right now it's based on what Sara did. Sara should be the BC and Laural Manhunter. I still don't know why they didn't go that route once SA and KC's Chem proved anti-Chem to a lot of viewers.

Edited April 6, 2015 by tarotx

[steeledwithakiss]

If they want to connect the shows all they have to do is use a line of dialogue from any of the existing characters to explain why so and so shows up.  The idea of the floater seems IMO to be a way to drive viewers to each show so I don't why it wouldn't be at least a semi-popular character/controversial or known character.

That's why I think Lyla works because the suicide squad is pretty popular and she was part of that storyline and she's Diggle's wife and Sara's mother.

 

ETA: About the new Flash promo, Felicity's hair looks ridiculous. Seriously who did that and do they still have a job? It does look intense and makes me want to watch, but lovey dovey R/F is such a big turn off for me.

Edited April 5, 2015 by steeledwithakiss

[AyChihuahua]

Maybe her nemesis sends nanobots to eff up her hair.  It really does look BAD.  (I don't like her dress, either, but the hair is really bad.)

[lemotomato]

For clarification, this is SA's quote about the character crossing over to all 3 shows:

 

"There is a plan to have one character who originated on Arrow, and is not one of the main characters on the spinoff, to sort of hover between all three shows. And that will be their job, so speak. We'll see a lot of interconnectivity next year."

This makes me think that the floater will be more for plot purposes than just to draw viewers to watch the new show. I really like the idea of it being Lyla, because that means we'll get to see more of her being a badass than just in the one or two Diggle-centric episodes a season. 

[apinknightmare]

Maybe her nemesis sends nanobots to eff up her hair.  It really does look BAD.  (I don't like her dress, either, but the hair is really bad.)

 

This is going to sound terrible, and I truly don't mean it to be as derogatory as it sounds, but her look is very Texas beauty queen. 

 

Texas beauty queen after a hurricane, or something.

[catrox14]

Okay, my head!canon is that Felicity's hair and makeup were done by Mama Smoak and it's all for a ruse.  She has false eyelashes, way too much blood red lipstick and vegas showgirl hair. 

[Tallis]

I think Emily has the sort of hair that can never actually have a bad hair day by normal standards but grading on a curve unique to her, it's perhaps not the best look. I think they were going for the whole retro 70s thing that's in at the moment and giving her something of a Farrah-do but it didn't quite come off.

[Password]

It's Ray. I blame Ray. Her hair is responding to Ray.

[catrox14]

I think Emily has the sort of hair that can never actually have a bad hair day by normal standards but grading on a curve unique to her, it's perhaps not the best look. I think they were going for the whole retro 70s thing that's in at the moment and giving her something of a Farrah-do but it didn't quite come off.

 

I need a reason for Felicity to wear that look. She wouldn't do that on her own.  No how, no way. I don't care how quirky she is. That's a look someone else put on her and IMO there has to be an in show reason.  Looking at Barry's clothing maybe it's a retro party

[statsgirl]

Felicity's hair bothered me as soon as I saw her on the Flash promo. It's like her Ray Hair, which is down and curled but upped to the nth degree.  Even in the Arrow promo reel, she's got hair down and curled, as opposed to her Oliver hair which is in a ponytail.  I don't want Ray's influence to remain.

 

 

I really like the idea of it being Lyla that ties the three shows together through a mysterious organization. Or even a baby Justic League. She's a solid character, originated on Arrow and relatively popular, and she doesn't fight except like a normal person so it wouldn't get in the way of the superheros on the other shows.  It also helps keeps the shows in somewhat different universes which they need to do otherwise whenever Oliver gets into trouble, Barry with his superspeed and Ray with his supersuit can get him out of it.  I just hope she gets paid for it though, one of them needs a paying job.

 

If not Lyla, I think Roy. Thea hasn't got the mask or the fighting down yet and Laurel would be a reason people don't follow to the new show rather than a reason for them to.  Also, with her marginal fighting skills, neither of the other shows really needs her help (presumably they have their own ADAs).

 

Unless they turn Malcolm good, I really think his usefulness on the shows are done.

[lexicon]

Oh, I get what you're saying. But I don't think Quentin does believe that Roy is the Arrow. The problem is that Quentin can't admit how he knows that Oliver is the Arrow in order to prove that Roy isn't. 

 

Thus exposing the hypocrisy of Quentin's actions in this storyline since he not only knows the members of Team Arrow but actively worked with them as well for a long time.

[apinknightmare]

Thus exposing the hypocrisy of Quentin's actions in this storyline since he not only knows the members of Team Arrow but actively worked with them as well for a long time.

Which he admitted he knew was wrong but did it anyway. I don't think he's being a hypocrite here, but he is being an irrational person and a terrible cop.

[steeledwithakiss]

According to the last spoilers it seems they are leaving that whole stupid "Barry's brains in Oliver's body" comment. I'm really disappointed. I'm so not watching 1x18.

Edited April 5, 2015 by steeledwithakiss

[rainydawn]

I was hoping this line won't make it to the episode. It's disrespectful on so many levels. 

Edited April 5, 2015 by rainydawn

[Genki]

I'm putting the connective character spec here because of some spoilers for Arrow.

 

Could it be Slade Wilson or Nyssa? Both are popular I would love to see more on my screen, both can hold their own against a range of characters. I'm not sure how they would write Slade in, but I always thought he would make a good addition to the Suicide Squad if they ever spun it off.

 

As much as I would want it to be Laurel, (I think KC plays better away from SA and Team Arrow) I think her Laurel-ness worked well against Ray and could also work well against Cisco. I would like to see her relationship with Sara developed more, so next time it is used as motivation spur her into a storyline, I actually believe it. But alas, I don't think it will happen. 

 

I dread the thought of it being Felicity, and since they didn't tie her to Ronnie and Firestorm like the comics, I really hope that it isn't her. I've been watching Flash but it really leaves me unmoved, I have been watching because of spin-off with Arrow, I honestly only care about how it affects Arrow.

 

Roy would be OK but not sure how they write in organically. He played well off the Flash cast and the thought of Roy dying is making me realise how much more I appreciate his character. Snarky truth bombs are amusing.

 

Lyla and Malcolm would both work in their own way as discussed.

 

I prefer Lyla but can understand where people are going with Diggle, if they aren't going to use him properly in Arrow then, share the love. Everyone could use more Diggle in their lives. He played REALLY well against the Flash cast and he considered Sara family. 

 

Mei, I'm grasping a bit otherwise why introduce her character? It seemed quite random even to get to the truth line.

[jay741982]

According to the last spoilers it seems they are leaving that whole stupid "Barry's brains in Oliver's body" comment. I'm really disappointed. I'm so not watching 1x18.

If they leave that hideous line in there just remember 320!!

[steeledwithakiss]

Mei, I'm grasping a bit otherwise why introduce her character? It seemed quite random even to get to the truth line.

Maybe they brought Mei so we're not surprised when Sara's dopplegänger/secret twin sister appears on the spin off. Seriously it was so random, I still don't get it.

 

"If they leave that hideous line in there just remember 320!!"

 

And as SA would say, it's always darkest before the dawn. Too bad the dark lasted like 18 episodes. A little overkill. But I'm so ready for 3x20 as only TA (+Malcolm and Thea for obvious reasons) will be in NP and we're promised sexy times.

Edited April 5, 2015 by steeledwithakiss

[lexicon]

The great thing is that they went out of their way to introduce other characters interactions - Dig/Laurel, Laurel/Felicity, Nyssa/Laurel- even at the cost of the Original Team, but they couldn't manage to have these 2 even say "Hi!" to each other until the last three episodes?

 

Hmmm see a pattern. Here's hoping they learn their lesson and in season 4 no characters/storylines/episodes are bent out of shape just to try to accommodate the EP's faves.

[statsgirl]

I wonder if Akio was also LP'd, hence Maseo being in the LoA?  

I wonder if that's how they recruit for the LoA?  We save you from drowning, or we'll bring back to life someone you love.

 

If that had happened, would Maseo be so estranged from Tatsu?

 

Is it just me or did Stephen basically confirm its Thea who dies in 3x19?

He said that someone usually dies in the finales of the season. Whether that person is a main character or not, stay watching.

 

Adding the question of whether the person is main cast makes me think it could be Akio.  I think everyone else, except for Malcolm, would be too missed.

[Velocity23]

Oh look LL getting a new Canary Cry from Cisco. Why is everything pushed at her at a span of 1 season.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Velocity23

[apinknightmare]

Oh look LL getting a new Canary Cry from Cisco. Why is everything pushed at her at a span of 1 season.

 

Well, at least she's not becoming metahuman. 

 

I don't really care about the Canary Cry. Clearly there were some little sonic bombs left over from Sara's stash (RIP), and I always thought it was kind of stupid that she didn't bust those out a little more often, especially during the Brick fiasco. 

[catrox14]

 

Adding the question of whether the person is main cast makes me think it could be Akio.  I think everyone else, except for Malcolm, would be too missed.

 

I for one, would miss Malcolm. I think he brings a dynamic to the show that no one else does. I would be really surprised if they kill Malcolm again so soon.

[AyChihuahua]

The terrible cop thing is really not being paid enough attention.  It's lovely that he has emotions and all, but a huge part of being a cop is controlling those emotions on the job.  I mean, look at what is happening IRL with cops  It's also, seriously, battery and a civil rights violation for him to have hit Oliver in custody when Oliver was not physically threatening him.  The police CANNOT mete out justice.  Being pissed off does not make it in any way okay, and he is, for me, permanently ruined as a character now.   (Still love Paul Blackthorne, though.  Dude is aging very well.)

[Velocity23]

For me Laurel is only one step away from becoming Sara 2.0. Going down on Nyssa.

[statsgirl]

I think Malcolm's storyline this year has made so little sense and made Oliver look so stupid, as much as I like John Barrowman, I wouldn't mind Malcolm off the show.

 

I hate that Laurel is getting the Canary cry, unless this is her last season.  Why should she get everything so fast?  And if she does, what are they going to write for her next season? I get why they want Ray to have his suit so soon because he's going to his spin-off but i's taking Oliver five seasons to become the Green Arrow and Roy more than one to become Arsenal.

[catrox14]

For me Laurel is only one step away from becoming Sara 2.0. Going down on Nyssa.

 

Oh come on. You know darn well Laurel is too selfish for that. She'd be the receiver in that case.

Edited April 5, 2015 by catrox14

[Morena]

I think Malcolm's storyline this year has made so little sense and made Oliver look so stupid, as much as I like John Barrowman, I wouldn't mind Malcolm off the show.

 

I hate that Laurel is getting the Canary cry, unless this is her last season.  Why should she get everything so fast?  And if she does, what are they going to write for her next season? I get why they want Ray to have his suit so soon because he's going to his spin-off but i's taking Oliver five seasons to become the Green Arrow and Roy more than one to become Arsenal.

can she die too, please, please?