Spoiler Discussion Thread

[apinknightmare]

And they are apparently going to blow up his only proof. The thing is even if they can prove Oliver is the Arrow now, or Roy, how can they prove he was the same Arrow from 3 years ago who killed all those criminals. There are so many copycats running around, who knows who is who?

 

I wonder how they blow it up? Everything is intact when Quentin goes down there. They wouldn't blow it up with anyone in it, although I guess they could drug everyone and remove them from the premises and then blow it up. Or the SCPD could leave it unattended long enough for the team to pull the trigger - they are morons like that, it seems. 

[Morena]

the issue of using the LP , Oliver and others know is: any death that happens (FS, Q, LL, Lance, Diggle, etc.) couldnt be permanent because the audience hope to used the LP to bring them back . Why used with one and not another?
 

[steeledwithakiss]

I wonder how they blow it up? Everything is intact when Quentin goes down there. They wouldn't blow it up with anyone in it, although I guess they could drug everyone and remove them from the premises and then blow it up. Or the SCPD could leave it unattended long enough for the team to pull the trigger - they are morons like that, it seems. 

Maybe Felicity could have her system commit suicide like in 2x14 but like something bigger?

[looptab]

I'm not convinced that they actually blow up the Foundry.

Oh, and with what SA said about the end od 319, I think that's when Ra's goes visit Thea. Hey, maybe we have Felicity breaking up with Ray, she goes to the loft, door's open..tah-dah! Thea in a pool of blood! 

[nksarmi]

Yeah, I mean, Oliver turned himself in, but Roy was out there in the suit and mask and is admitting to it. There's a conundrum. I'm guessing that's why Quentin says, "I've got you now, you son of a bitch." when he finally finds the souper seekrit hideout in the basement of Verdant - he's finally got some kind of actual proof to go off of.

Yes I mean as of right now, I'm not sure I believe Quentin had enough evidence to issue an arrest warrant for Oliver to begin with OR freeze Thea's assets.  I am going to assume it might be some "oh crap the mayor is dead, let the chief of police do whatever he wants" moment for some judge to have signed off on "he's the Arrow because I say he is" statement from Quentin.  I mean really, what proof did Quentin have?  Some weird guy in a robe and a lot of costume jewelry told me so and my daughter didn't deny it?  How would she know?  Oh I can't tell you that.  Oh this weird guy in the robe?  A bunch of guys in hoods with arrows on their back were hanging out with him, so clearly he is an expert.  But of course, we can't call him as a witness so you are going to have to take my word on it.  Did I try to arrest him a couple of years ago? Sure, but just take my word, it's him.  Do I have a personal vendetta against him because of his history with my daughters?  Sure, but just nevermind that.

 

So yea it's going to take the Arrowcave for Quentin to have any proof - I think a good lawyer could have had Oliver out on bail pretty quickly even without Roy's sacrifice.  But oh well, drama and angry (police abuse) Quentin!  So yea, what the heck is he going to do when Roy shows up and confesses? Its not like he had any proof to begin with, is it?

Maybe Felicity could have her system commit suicide like in 2x14 but like something bigger?

I hope she has already done this sometime before they went to Diggle's house.  I mean, I'm just going to believe she hard-wiped everything so that at the very least all they could find is the costumes and Thea and Oliver can just say "Uh, we thought the basement was flooded."  I mean, yes I know fingerprints are EVERYWHERE, but if all that stuff disappears the police take it into custody, what are they going to do? This show seems to suggest that countless bad guys get out of jail for "missing evidence" so why not Roy or Oliver?

[NumberCruncher]

So Stephen confirmed that next season Oliver will be appearing on all 3 shows...can't say that I'm excited about that since I have no desire to watch the latest spinoff. Inevitably they end up pushing character development on the guest show (e.g. Oliver's baby mama drama, Felicity's backstory, etc.) so you have to watch in order to learn more about the character you're watching on the home show.  Anyone else feeling really manipulated?  Grrr.

[catrox14]

Well, I'm becoming increasingly convinced that Arrow is going to be rebranded as Justice League or something like that.  BOO!  I want my Arrow back.

So Stephen confirmed that next season Oliver will be appearing on all 3 shows...can't say that I'm excited about that since I have no desire to watch the latest spinoff. Inevitably they end up pushing character development on the guest show (e.g. Oliver's baby mama drama, Felicity's backstory, etc.) so you have to watch in order to learn more about the character you're watching on the home show.  Anyone else feeling really manipulated?  Grrr.

 

This is exactly why I quit watching a sci-fi show that kept driving me to the game it came from and other stuff to understand a damn thing.   I don't like this bullshit.

[steeledwithakiss]

Oliver appearing on the spin off is no surprise. They never made a secret of the fact they wanted to create a shared universe and they're all shooting in Vancouver (right?) and are on the same network. I'm sure Barry is also going to appear in the spin off if it does get picked up. I'm not happy about it, but as long as RP is not on Arrow anymore I can handle a few crossovers. I'll maybe look for Oliver scenes on YT because I have no desire to watch the whole show.

Edited April 5, 2015 by steeledwithakiss

[kismet]

I'm not convinced that they actually blow up the Foundry.

Oh, and with what SA said about the end od 319, I think that's when Ra's goes visit Thea. Hey, maybe we have Felicity breaking up with Ray, she goes to the loft, door's open..tah-dah! Thea in a pool of blood!

We'll finally get their long anticipated convo! Plz help me! OR maybe thea will be too far gone and we'll have to wait until 20-21 :(

[BkWurm1]

the issue of using the LP , Oliver and others know is: any death that happens (FS, Q, LL, Lance, Diggle, etc.) couldnt be permanent because the audience hope to used the LP to bring them back . Why used with one and not another?

 

They'll have to put conditions on it to make using it either extremely hard, come with bad side effects or more likely just destroy it going forward. 

 

So Stephen confirmed that next season Oliver will be appearing on all 3 shows...can't say that I'm excited about that since I have no desire to watch the latest spinoff. Inevitably they end up pushing character development on the guest show (e.g. Oliver's baby mama drama, Felicity's backstory, etc.) so you have to watch in order to learn more about the character you're watching on the home show.  Anyone else feeling really manipulated?  Grrr.

I hate that they push characterization into the must purchase to read comics but I'm ok with the shows because as much as I kid myself about Ray, I am soooo watching the spin off. Spy Daddy?  Rory?  SARA!!!!!!   I'm there with or with out the crossovers.  

[jay741982]

We'll finally get their long anticipated convo! Plz help me! OR maybe thea will be too far gone and we'll have to wait until 20-21 :(

I think SA's favorite scene on the jet from 320 is likely Oliver and Felicity having that talk. Oliver telling her about her being the last thing on his mind when he "Died", how he dreamed about kissing her in the foundry instead of walking off to fight Ra's

[Password]

Dammit. How am I suppose to continue my dislike for Ray when I'm excited about Oliver pseudo fighting through Ray?

Dilemma.

[catrox14]

Dammit. How am I suppose to continue my dislike for Ray when I'm excited about Oliver pseudo fighting through Ray?

Dilemma.

 

It's the ultimate in literal character propping.

[kismet]

I think SA's favorite scene on the jet from 320 is likely Oliver and Felicity having that talk. Oliver telling her about her being the last thing on his mind when he "Died", how he dreamed about kissing her in the foundry instead of walking off to fight Ra's

Probably true and that is a much desired convo. :) But I was actually referring to thea & felicity talking since its been about 3 years and im not sure they have said more than a few words to each other and definitely almost none on camera.

[steeledwithakiss]

That's crazy those two have never talked to each other. Actually, apart from one episode in season 2 she barely spoke with Diggle either. The writers need to mix it up a little next season. So far Thea knowing the secret hasn't changed anything on that front. The stills for 3x19 give me hope though.

[looptab]

We'll finally get their long anticipated convo! Plz help me! OR maybe thea will be too far gone and we'll have to wait until 20-21 :(

They are basically trolling us. Have them side by side at the wedding, but no words; maybe one half-dead in 319. We should be grateful that they are even in the same shot!

 

That's crazy those two have never talked to each other. Actually, apart from one episode in season 2 she barely spoke with Diggle either. The writers need to mix it up a little next season. So far Thea knowing the secret hasn't changed anything on that front. The stills for 3x19 give me hope though.

The great thing is that they went out of their way to introduce other characters interactions - Dig/Laurel, Laurel/Felicity, Nyssa/Laurel- even at the cost of the Original Team, but they couldn't manage to have these 2 even say "Hi!" to each other until the last three episodes?

 

Two deaths???  Good grief.  I wonder if both Roy and Thea die and Oliver can only LP one of them, hence Thea ends up being saved and Roy's death pushes her towards a heroic identity.

 I checked various reports of the panel and they didn't talk about two deaths. They reported him saying "Almost always someone dies, you'll have to tune in". In one of these it's written as "You'll have 2 tune in", maybe that brought some confusion :)

[Morrigan2575]

Stephen said he will appear in all three shows. “We will be sprinkling characters in, I know there is a plan for one character from Arrow who isn’t one of the main characters of the spin-off will hover between all three shows and it will be their job. You will see a lot of interconnectivity next year.”

Any other suggestions besides Felicity? I don't think I'll be very happy about Felicity being spread so thin. Less room for development on Arrow. Plus there's the potential that her story (father, nemesis, etc) gets told on a different show.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[looptab]

Please, let it be Laurel.. give her the Canary Cry and let her run around elsewhere...but, no, 90% it'll be Felicity :/

[Chaser]

What about Quentin? They are introducing him to the Flash universe. If they bring Sara back, there is a tie there. 

 

I can't express enough how much I hate the idea its Felicity. It makes the most sense, but this season is hard enough for me with her away from Team Arrow now. I don't think I can watch a season of her leaving every couple episodes to visit another Team. Plus they probably would tell whatever story they have planned for her on the other shows. That would feel like a manipulation to me.  

 

With Thea getting a mask and Roy not dying, I wonder if this is how they make room in the lair for Speedy. They have Felicity leaving town a lot. Words cannot express how much I hate this.

 

ETA: If their plan in S4 is to have Felicity away from Team Arrow regularly, then they have learned nothing from S3.

Edited April 5, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[Morrigan2575]

What about Quentin? They are introducing him to the Flash universe. If they bring Sara back, there is a tie there

Quentin doesn't know about Barry and Team Flash, so he wouldn't be a connective tissue between the 3 shows.

Felicity - relationship with Ray and Sara (spin-off) already established relationship with everyone on Flash (except Joe)

Quentin - relationship with Team Arrow (currently adversarial). No connection to Team Flash except Police wise through Joe. Connection to Sara on spinoff.

Laurel - Sara on Spinoff and Cisco on Flash so she's a possibility. Works with TA on Arrow.

If I had to rank I'd say Felicity as the highest odds followed by Laurel and then Quentin.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[kismet]

When I read the press it said not a major character, so I don't think it will be felicity. So far it feels like arrow fans have not enjoyed her propping ray and flash fans have not been as big of a fan. Plus i think she gets the most screentime after SA, so can't see them shipping her off to work on other shows frequently. Plus I do think she will be in relationship with oq next season so don't think it would work if constantly sending her away.

Id say laurel, but I think arrow writers like her too much. Also she has major job in sc can't leave it as easily unless they make her give up da position which would be not smart choice imo.

Sara could be viable option. All she has to do is meet team flash which cam easily be done.

Quentin will meet joe & team flash, so he might be an option. Plus I feel like he might lose police job after this season as result of manhunt (just my speculation). So I think hes viable contender.

Robbie amell is also on short list as well. He is part of firestorm, getting married to Caitlin & SA's cousin (not strong reason to be on arrow, but those 2 do tend to spend a lot of time together). So he is a logical choice to float between eps.

I do think though that they might just introduce brand new character from spinoff and then have them go to each show. This is my #1 guess/theory.

Edited April 5, 2015 by kismet

[Sakura12]

I think they are going to make Felicity like Chloe on Smallville, where she's a watchtower of sorts to the various hero teams. Or she'll be the IT guru for them. She'd make the most sense. When either team needs the help of a hacker or someone to set up security. Laurel and Quentin have no use to Team Flash. I can only see them visiting Sara. 

 

He said a character from Arrow that is not a main character on the spin off. That means Sara and Ray. He said nothing about it not being a main character from Arrow. Felicity is the highest possibility with friendly connections to most of the characters on both shows and being a fan favorite. I wouldn't mind seeing more of Felicity and Sara's friendship on the spin off. I'd love if Felicity ran up and hugged Sara saying a similar line that she said when she first met her. "I'm happy you're not dead...anymore...again"

Edited April 5, 2015 by Sakura12

[kismet]

Can i safely say for myself if they move felicity into that role, I am less likely to watch all 3 shows. She belongs on arrow with OQ & diggle missions. Not some messenger between the shows. Plus mg has repeatedly said she is not going to the spinoff. So yea I see people's valid points, but relationships can be made with other characters.

Another reason I thought of that she is not a good choice is arrow will lose its IT genius and the show can't function well without that role. They seriously need someone who is just independent, trustworthy & can handle themselves in all situation. FS is not trained fighter, she is not as versatile as some of the other choices.

Can I be selfish and say I wish it was Victor garber. Even though hes probably too expensive and probably doesn't want to spend that much time in Vancouver. Logistically, his character also does not lend itself to the role. But I just love him. So ill take any chance to see him more.

Logistical speaking though it would make sense to just make one of the new hires on the spin off do it. The ensemble is getting large so it would give someone a role. Plus if they picked one of the non-white & non male choices it would also be a good PR/ overdue changing with times.

Edited April 5, 2015 by kismet

[Chaser]

I can understand establishing Felicity as a thread between the three shows, and yes to Felicity and Sara interactions, but the wording of that quote worries me. That characters job is to be a floater between the shows. If its Felicity, it sounds like her role on Arrow would be decreased to accommodate the other shows. That's what I don't want. I hated that they had Felicity miss some of Arrow's big episodes because she was playing support for other 'heroes.' 3.04/3.18.

 

Is it just me or did Stephen basically confirm its Thea who dies in 3x19?

[apinknightmare]

Well, SA did say it was someone from Arrow who wasn't one of the spinoff's main characters (therefore, not Brandon Routh), so it seems like it's going to be either someone we already know, or someone they introduce specifically for that role. I really hope it's not Felicity, since SA said this person's job would be floating between the shows, so that would mean less Felicity on Arrow, and no thank you to that. If they're going to do this with someone, I'd prefer it to be a character we don't see much of now. Like Lyla, who just left ARGUS and is likable enough to do the job, especially if this character's purpose as a floater is to tie the shows together via a season-long mystery or mission. 

[Starfish35]

If its Felicity, it sounds like her role on Arrow would be decreased to accommodate the other shows.

Yeah, if it is Felicity, it sounds to me like she'd just be a recurring character on Arrow next season (as well as the other two), no longer full time cast. From an Arrow standpoint, I hate that idea.

[wingster55]

I don't think it'll be a major character of any of the three shows...maybe a villain? 

[Sakura12]

I still think they are thinking more along the lines of fan favorite. No one will care if Laurel shows up the Flash or the spin off. They didn't even mention her showing up on the Flash this season. Laurel won't help bring in viewers. Quentin might, but I see no use he could be to Team Flash or the spin off. They said it was a job of some kind for that character. Felicity is the best option because of her fan favorite status. Diggle could work as well, I'd love to see him roll his eyes and teach Barry how to plan first like he taught Oliver and he'd probably love to help Sara rein her new team in. 

[Axel]

Is there a chance it could be Roy (is he confirmed dead or something ) ?

[apinknightmare]

It all depends on what this person's function is. This person doesn't necessarily have to function as a mentor of sorts to new teams. For all we know it could be someone tracking down information for some kind of mystery that has to go from city to city to get help finding clues or whatnot. If they want to draw viewers in, their best bet is to connect the shows via a recurring storyline that weaves through each of them that might be interesting for the viewers to follow from one show to the next. I love Felicity, but without a higher function other than randomly showing up to help with a VotW, I'm not sure how much of a draw her just showing up is going to be.

Edited April 5, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Sakura12]

I love Barry and Felicity's friendship and I'd love to see more of Sara and Felicity's friendship. That's enough of a draw for me. 

[jay741982]

Probably true and that is a much desired convo. :) But I was actually referring to thea & felicity talking since its been about 3 years and im not sure they have said more than a few words to each other and definitely almost none on camera.

Oops sorry for the confusion lol but yes Thea/Felicity bonding must happen! These are the two most important people to our hero! I'd love to see Felicity and Thea be friends. Talk about what it's like to love Oliver Queen

[wingster55]

They didn't even mention her showing up on the Flash this season. Laurel won't help bring in viewers.

 

They didn't mention Lance going either..we only know because Paul posted pics of his visit IIRC...I think Laurel will help more than you think..she does have her own fanbase. 

[Chaser]

Lyla could work in a Maria Hill type role.

 

I just don't think she has enough recognition for the EPs.

[apinknightmare]

They didn't mention Lance going either..we only know because Paul posted pics of his visit IIRC...I think Laurel will help more than you think..she does have her own fanbase. 

 

No, Lance guesting on The Flash was announced - Laurel wasn't, that's why people were confused about her showing up in their sizzle reel since she was never mentioned as one of the crossover guests. 

 

Then again, they also made it seem like Quentin was going to Central City, when he and Laurel are both staying in Starling, and The Flash people are showing up there. 

[wingster55]

No, Lance guesting on The Flash was announced - Laurel wasn't, that's why people were confused about her showing up in their sizzle reel since she was never mentioned as one of the crossover guests.

 

Where was he announced before he posted the pics? 

Also...isn't Laurel showing up in the sizzle reel, which is meant to show all the best moments of the remaining eps, a way to promote her coming in? 

[apinknightmare]

Where was he announced before he posted the pics? 

Also...isn't Laurel showing up in the sizzle reel, which is meant to show all the best moments of the remaining eps, a way to promote her coming in? 

 

It was announced on a few comic/Arrow sites before the pics were posted. And yeah, putting her on the sizzle reel is a way to show that she's guest starring. Did I say it wasn't? 

[wingster55]

Not to be a dick..but could you show a source/proof? 

And no you didn't but Sakura12 said that they didn't mention her being on before the sizzle reel so they won't lose viewers. 

[apinknightmare]

Not to be a dick..but could you show a source/proof? 

And no you didn't but Sakura12 said that they didn't mention her being on before the sizzle reel so they won't lose viewers. 

 

I'm looking, and I can't find it. Maybe I'm thinking of Cisco and Joe going over to Arrow. 

 

And if you're addressing a comment that someone else made, address it to them, not me. I never claimed anyone was trying to keep Laurel's crossover a secret because they were worried about losing viewers. 

[wingster55]

And if you're addressing a comment that someone else made, address it to them, not me.

 

I did. The first post I made about it was quoting what they said and responding to it. I only continued the discussion after you quoted that first post. 

[Morrigan2575]

Green Arrow TV made the announcement, they did an interview with PB, they also (wrongly) hinted that there would be Lance/Donna interaction. That interview and one other said Cisco/Joe were coming to Arrow and then Lance would go to Flash working on a case.

Lance was also mentioned going to crossover during Paleyfest. Laurel was actually never mentioned in the crossover in print, she appeared in the sizzle reel and TV Line changed the description.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[apinknightmare]

Wait, I'm confused.

Joe and Cisco come to Starling City as guests on Arrow, and then Quentin and Laurel are guests on The Flash while Joe and Cisco are still in Startling, right? Or does Quentin actually go to CC at some point?

[looptab]

Wait, I'm confused.

Joe and Cisco come to Starling City as guests on Arrow, and then Quentin and Laurel are guests on The Flash while Joe and Cisco are still in Startling, right? Or does Quentin actually go to CC at some point?

That's what I thought, but what I'm gathering now is that Joe and Cisco will not appear on Arrow, they'll just go to Starling, but on The Flash. Unless I still got it wrong? So confusing, gah!

[Morrigan2575]

Wait, I'm confused.

Joe and Cisco come to Starling City as guests on Arrow, and then Quentin and Laurel are guests on The Flash while Joe and Cisco are still in Startling, right? Or does Quentin actually go to CC at some point?

no, I think the original reports were confused. originally the talk was about Cisco/Joe coming to SC working on a case, which was reported as them appearing on Arrow. Then there was talk of Lance going to the Flash. The interpretation and, what was repeated in many articles that picked up the GATV interview, was 2 separate events. The reality, which confused everyone is that Joe/Cisco go to SC and interact only with Lance/Laurel but it takes place in a Flash episode.

[lemotomato]

Can i safely say for myself if they move felicity into that role, I am less likely to watch all 3 shows. She belongs on arrow with OQ & diggle missions. Not some messenger between the shows. Plus mg has repeatedly said she is not going to the spinoff. So yea I see people's valid points, but relationships can be made with other characters.

I am also less likely to watch all three shows if they reduce Felicity's role on Arrow to ship her back and forth. And I think the EPs are seriously overestimating her popularity, especially after what they've done to her this season. Also, from what I've seen, Flash fans that are not Arrow fans resented her taking time away from Iris, so I don't even think using her as a conduit between two shows this year worked that well.

In all likelinhood, though, it looks like it'll be her. With regard to MG saying that she's not going to the spinoff, the context of the question is always people asking if Felicity is leaving Arrow to be on the spinoff, which would not technically be true, if she spends most of her episodes on Arrow.

Also, I am really uneasy with SA's answer at the con to the question of "will Olicity happen". ("I don't know, man.") I mean, he knows that the extended trailer is out there and what it shows, so there's no need to be coy about it, unless he knows it doesn't lead to anything. Does it get wiped out by time travel? Is it a one-and-done thing? Is he just playing up the idea that Oliver's going to be in the LoA and they'll be separated?

Edited April 5, 2015 by lemotomato

[nksarmi]

Is there a chance it could be Roy (is he confirmed dead or something ) ?

I think there is a good chance if he fully takes the fall for Oliver and has to live a completely secret life that it could be him.

[wingster55]

Green Arrow TV made the announcement, they did an interview with PB, they also (wrongly) hinted that there would be Lance/Donna interaction. That interview and one other said Cisco/Joe were coming to Arrow and then Lance would go to Flash working on a case.

 

Oh ok..though that's an interview..not the same as the CW/writers announcing it. 

 

Also, I am really uneasy with SA's answer at the con to the question of "will Olicity happen". ("I don't know, man.") I mean, he knows that the extended trailer is out there and what it shows, so there's no need to be coy about it, unless he knows it doesn't lead to anything. Does it get wiped out by time travel? Is it a one-and-done thing? Is he just playing up the idea that Oliver's going to be in the LoA and they'll be separated?

 

He was also coy about fighting RF and even if he's in that episode.

Edited April 5, 2015 by wingster55

[BkWurm1]

The woman who took the hardest hit SA has ever seen taken -my first thought was that it was confirmation that Thea was dying and then I wondered if it was actually some kind of words of support about Katie Cassidy.

 

About the person going from show to show and that being their job, again my first thought also was Felicity by now I am more inclined to think it is Diggle.  They just don't seem to know what to do with Diggle apart from letting him bring his words of wisdom and VERY rarely letting him be back up.  If we have had him resolve that it is too much a risk to his family to be out in the field all the time, then him playing a more behind the scenes role for all the active teams could be a good and safer fit.   I don't like the idea of having less Diggle on Arrow but he's already being underused so maybe this will keep his screentime on Arrow and up it elsewhere.  Plus didn't we have a spoiler about he and Oliver's relationship taking a drastic change?

[kismet]

They didn't mention Lance going either..we only know because Paul posted pics of his visit IIRC...I think Laurel will help more than you think..she does have her own fanbase.

I did like her energy with Ray. It would strengthen the black canary story. They could make her more independent like the comics. Her acting is also better when she acts with everyone else besides SA.

[Morrigan2575]

Oh ok..though that's an interview..not the same as the CW/writers announcing it. .

Yes it was. Both Berlanti and AJK "announced" the Lance/Cisco/Joe crossover at Paleyfest (which I mentioned). It was also announced in interviews with AJK that Felicity and Ray would go to The Flash (this was announced back at TCAs). The only appearance that wasn't announced was Laurel's which is why everyone was confused.

She showed up in the sizzle reel for Flash, none of the articles i read from Paleyfest even mention Laurel going to Flash. Then TV Line changes the wording on their announcement from Laurel going to Flash, to the scene being part of Joe/Cisco coming to Arrow.

Again, it was mass confusion because of how this crossover was set up but there was no attention paid by media, actors, producers or network that Laurel was going to be on The Flash. It wasn't until the episode description was released last week that everything was cleared up.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Morrigan2575