Spoiler Discussion Thread

[SonofaBiscuit]

But shouldn't Felicity be all cried out by now?  How can her body even form tears at this point?  I honestly don't get it because it's one of the things that people bitched about regarding Laurel last season.

[wonderwall]

Don't get me wrong. I'm really tired of her crying too. I have a feeling she's gonna cry every episode this season. smh. SMH. 

[Genki]

I legit stopped watching Alias during Season 1 because Sydney cried every.damn.episode, I never went back.

 

We get it Felicity is in touch with her emotions, but she faced some tough challenges in S1 & S2 and she handled them. I love Felicity and I'm sticking to my S3 pass, but I'm at a loss as to her crying over Ray (which is why I hope it's about something more to it), who seems fine. Did the doctors diagnose him with a terminal disease? 

[calliope1975]

Wimmins are so emotional, donchaknow? I'd rather see Felicity doing something. Anything. Research the LOA. Find a weak spot. I've skipped a bunch of episodes, but she's cried in the ones I have seen. 

 

I'm not against women crying. I've had some crappy weeks of work lately, and I've shed a few tears over it. Then, I picked myself up and carried on. Of the increasingly long, long list of stuff they've fucked up this season, what they've done to Felicity is the worst for me. 

[AyChihuahua]

"Don't get me wrong. I'm really tired of her crying too. I have a feeling she's gonna cry every episode this season. smh. SMH."

I was just quoting you for topic purposes. I think we're pretty much all on the same page.

It's not possible that they really are intentionally ruining her to make Laurel comparatively okay, is it? Make her unpopular and then boot her next season? I'm kind of starting to wonder.

Edited April 1, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[NoWayOut]

It's not like crying makes one unlikeable but it's exhausting having to watch it week after week and, at this point, I'm exhausted on Felicity's behalf.

[tv echo]

I'm at the point where I wouldn't put it past the EPs to do anything to bolster the Laurel character's popularity so that they can feasibly float the idea of a Black Canary spin-off...

[AyChihuahua]

I find constant crying unlikeable, definitely. She's basically crying every week at this point, and not doing anything about it. My mom always told me "It's a sad woman who'll complain about a problem, but won't do anything to solve it." Not saying her problems have easy solutions, but geez woman, TRY!

[lexicon]

See, logically I get why Felicity would be crying. She almost got killed and her boyfriend whom apparently she cares for (though it makes no sense whatsoever to me) got (apparently) extremely injured whilst trying to save her.

 

So yeah. Logically it makes sense. But I just don't get it. Ray isn't worth crying over and I can't connect to Felicity in that sense. 

 

Is it horrible that I compare this to her reaction when Oliver was presumed dead? She was clearly in pain then but it was all about restrained emotion, which I could buy, but this...these tears for Ray, I just don't get it. In the clip it says that the doctors are saying nothing good about Ray's condition but he seems perfectly fine. I mean we've seen Oliver sew himself up, stab himself through the chest to get MM, jab himself in the knee with a syringe full of pain killers to keep going and dislocate him thumb to get out of handcuffs, am I supposed to be concerned that Ray got a boo boo?

 

I'm not sure if I'm being too harsh because I really really don't like RP or they're really screwing this up that badly. Looking at it factually I know he's her boyfriend and he's been hurt but damn it all to hell I just don't understand what she sees in him. I know she's rebounding hard but the Felicity I fell in love with, is smarter and less needy than this. I want her to care about the person she's involved with, I don't resent or question that, what I don't get is why that person is Ray Palmer because nothing I've seen on screen shows that he's worthy of that (or her).

[wonderwall]

There are a few different kinds of relationships, one that makes a person better, one that doesn't really have an affect, and one that makes a person worse. Ray, imo, makes Felicity weaker (just as Oliver and Laurel made each other weaker as characters). She loses her fire when she's with him, she loses her essence and i think it shows. My problem is, is that the EPs find Ray to be so wonderful that they don't see it because they're so blinded by this need of making people like him for the spinoff series. IDK I'm just tired of seeing RAY'S Felicity as opposed to normal Felicity. And yes, there is a difference. 

 

God I'm really hoping they break up this episode because every time they're together I just find a way to dislike them even more. 

It's not like crying makes one unlikeable but it's exhausting having to watch it week after week and, at this point, I'm exhausted on Felicity's behalf.

Agreed 100%

[Password]

Ray, imo, makes Felicity weaker (just as Oliver and Laurel made each other weaker as characters). She loses her fire when she's with him, she loses her essence and i think it shows.

I'm high fiving you.

[steeledwithakiss]

If you compare it to how she reacted when Oliver was poisoned (and Barry saved him) it does look like a little too much. Maybe the difference is she does feel guilty because the arrow was aimed for her, and it's the LOA so her working for Oliver is connected to all this. Maybe they wanted to contrast her reaction with Donna being all "at least you got a boyfriend yay!". I'm wondering if all the time she was crying this season were written on the script or were they EBR's choice. Either way, i can fanwank it that Felicity has been trying to hold on but Sara dying (and her having to clean the body) then her first love trying to kill her, then Oliver dying it's just too much for her and she's heading to a breakdown. I feel like she needs to talk about how she feels about all this, because she's a mess right now.

Edited April 1, 2015 by steeledwithakiss

[apinknightmare]

So, what's this "only Ray can save Ray" business that the CW account tweeted? Does this arrow he gets hit with have some kind of poison that only he can figure out the antidote for? Are they going to pretend he's a medical doctor now? Or does he get injected with some self-destructing tech when the arrow or whatever hits him? I don't get it.

[GirlvsTV]

There are a few different kinds of relationships, one that makes a person better, one that doesn't really have an affect, and one that makes a person worse. Ray, imo, makes Felicity weaker (just as Oliver and Laurel made each other weaker as characters). She loses her fire when she's with him, she loses her essence and i think it shows. My problem is, is that the EPs find Ray to be so wonderful that they don't see it because they're so blinded by this need of making people like him for the spinoff series. IDK I'm just tired of seeing RAY'S Felicity as opposed to normal Felicity. And yes, there is a difference. 

ITA. I majorly dislike the Felicity that shows up whenever Ray is around. The writers force her character to bend around his plot needs and the result is her feeling really out of character in a bad way. I still can't believe she stood there and took Ray's crap in the last episode. That didn't seem like her at all.

I'm totally getting my hopes up that the dialog tease was a Felicity line. Then we could be finished with this silly Ray/Felicity mess for good.

[wonderwall]

Yeah, I'm not watching this episode at all, but I may change my mind if people here liked it :p 

[Carrie Ann]

So, what's this "only Ray can save Ray" business that the CW account tweeted? Does this arrow he gets hit with have some kind of poison that only he can figure out the antidote for? Are they going to pretend he's a medical doctor now? Or does he get injected with some self-destructing tech when the arrow or whatever hits him? I don't get it.

 

Well, because he's super seriously injured and hanging on by a thread, maybe it's something Donna says to her at some point or something like that? I don't want them spending any more time on him than necessary this ep, so I'm hoping it's really nothing more than him needing to turn the corner on his own or whatever.

[Guest]

Why is Felicity crying over Ray? In terms of comparison of injuries on this show, Ray basically cut his finger. Pull it together girl. JFC. What are they doing?!

 

Guys, I really hope this 'Mama Smoak helps Felicity figure stuff out' isn't helping her realize that she actually loves Ray because NO. Oh the dread is trickling in again. 

[Carrie Ann]

CR: I'm kind of hopeful that I have a little date with the detective. I really do.

 

 

*Weeps* Can we just skip to Season 4 and be done with this dreck so I can have SmoakinLance? I think we've all earned this, living through this season.

[steeledwithakiss]

I won't be able to watch it live anyway, CR interviews got me excited, but then I saw the sneak peeks... RP and LL really make it hard for me to enjoy an episode. And I wanted Mama Smoak to interact with TA, but MG already told us it won't happen because we can't have nice things apparently. Anyway I'm glad we already know that because it would have been worse watching the episode waiting for them to interact and then feeling so disappointed they didn't. Spoilers are a blessing and a curse.

[Password]

If you compare it to how she reacted when Oliver was poisoned (and Barry saved him) it does look like a little too much. Maybe the difference is she does feel guilty because the arrow was aimed for her, and it's the LOA so her working for Oliver is connected to all this. Maybe they wanted to contrast her reaction with Donna being all "at least you got a boyfriend yay!". I'm wondering if all the time she was crying this season were written on the script or were they EBR's choice. Either way, i can fanwank it that Felicity has been trying to hold on but Sara dying (and her having to clean the body) then her first love trying to kill her, then Oliver dying it's just too much for her and she's heading to a breakdown. I feel like she needs to talk about how she feels about all this, because she's a mess right now.

Aaah don't make me feel for her crying about Ray.

Blessing and a curse the sense people make on this forum.

[Nagevs]

It's not possible that they really are intentionally ruining her to make Laurel comparatively okay, is it? Make her unpopular and then boot her next season? I'm kind of starting to wonder.

 

I've felt this since the first part of this season. They've made Laurel Black Canary, and had Felicity fall for someone else, any guesses as to whom Oliver starts to reconnect with come season four?

[Danny Franks]

Why would anyone care if Ray is injured? From everything I've gathered, he's about as popular as a fart in that cheap, plastic suit of his, so trying to get viewers to feel the drama of him being hurt by just having Felicity cry over him seems futile.

 

But are they really just rehashing everything that Oliver has done and experienced, and shoving Ray into his place? Wow, that is some truly fucking tragic writing. Just you guys wait until Ray kills a guy to save Felicity and says "he was going to hurt you. There was no choice to make."

 

And I'm so glad I'm not watching, because I have no desire to see that witty, sunny, genuinely compassionate yet strong character from the first two seasons weeping and wailing over all the woe that befalls her (or, at least, that befalls the men who give her value and purpose). Fanwanking reasons for her being such an emotional mess is all well and good, but if the writers can't be arsed (or don't see the need) to actually give her valid reasons in the text, then you can imagine it being anything you want. Maybe she has a really painful boil on her backside, and every time she sits it hurts so much that the tears just flow.

[nksarmi]

Well I kind of think Felicity's bitchiness with Oliver earlier this season was doing more to make her unpopular than her crying - her crying kind of makes sense.  Though I have to admit, her bitchiness make sense too.  I stayed with Oliver as long as I could over the must keep Merlyn alive thing, but he lost me a few episodes ago.  He is definitely not my favorite character anymore and I hope that changes soon.  Because as much as I love him, I am actually at the point where I could watch a Laurel/Thea/Felicity girl power team or any combination of Roy/Laurel, Roy/Thea, Roy/Diggle, Laurel/Nyssa, etc... The only times I've really liked Oliver this season was when he was with Thea.

 

All in all, it's been one heck of a downer season.  We start with Sara's death, we have Oliver's near death mid-season, and there have been hints we will have another major death before the season is over.

 

I am SO ready for a little fun on this show.  I mean, yes I get it, they are crime fighters and very, very serious.  But for goodness sakes, get snarky with the bad guys, crack some jokes, smile, hint that you are having a little fun at least off-camera!  Even the beautiful wedding barely gave us 60 seconds of smiles, dancing, and witty one liners.  We should have had a best man toast by Oliver and just a little more calm before the storm.

 

So I can't even fault Felicity for crying all season long.  I fault the writers for giving her - and us - little to laugh or smile about.

[statsgirl]

They really are killing everything that was good about Felicity with this Ray nonsense.  She was a great character because she was funny, but also because she stood up for herself and because when troubles hit, she shouldered them and got on with it.

 

Now she's bitchy to Oliver, passive to Ray and crying all the time.

[steeledwithakiss]

Felicity does say in the sneak peek that the doctors said nothing good, so maybe it's really serious. It has to be life and death because otherwise that reaction is well an overreaction. It seems that the writers have taken that whole Felicity is the heart of the team a little too much litterally. She doesn't need to cry to show her vulnerability and compassion, she was doing just fine for two seasons without the water works. At the same time I'm not a big fan of blaming someone for crying at the drop of hat, some people are like that they're not always weaker for it.It's just Felicity was never like that, so to reconcile it I need to find a reason why. Then again, because the writers are lame works too. Also I never hated Laurel for crying too much, I actually never thought she was such a cry-baby before coming here. Her wanting Oliver back after what he did and never taking responsability for her own screw ups had more to do with my dislike. So I don't agree with the comparison between the two in that aspect. Felicity being that upset for Ray might be the reason Donna senses something is off, maybe she can see her daughter is projecting, because god has she done that since 3x07 it's not even funny.

[Chaser]

Haven't watched the sneak peek and really have no desire too. Episode doesn't interest me either. If I hear good things (THEY BROKE UP!) I might change my mind.

 

My hope is that its not Ray Felicity is crying over. That Mama Smoak calls her out on everything building up with Felicity and Felicity just gets it all out. Felicity has had very good reasons to cry this season. 3x02 - Sara's Death. 3x05 - Boyfriend comes back from the dead and threats her and her family. 3x10/11 - Oliver's death. So I can't fault the reasons individually, but its just so much thrown on her. Esp since we never saw her so emotional in the past. And 3x19/3x20 may be another big one. I just don't want to watch this. 

 

I don't think they are trying to build up Oliver and Laurel again. They have been nice to each twice this year 3x01/3x17. I think everything on screen is OLICITY. I think they just massively misjudged Ray and Felicity this year. 

[dtissagirl]

MG is trolling on Tumblr right now, and he said that there's an upcoming wedding AND marriage, and someone suggested marriage as to not testify, and he replied with "that's clever". Trolling? Clues?

Edited April 1, 2015 by dancingnancy

[pootlus]

So, what's this "only Ray can save Ray" business that the CW account tweeted? Does this arrow he gets hit with have some kind of poison that only he can figure out the antidote for? Are they going to pretend he's a medical doctor now? Or does he get injected with some self-destructing tech when the arrow or whatever hits him? I don't get it.

 

At this point he's such a Gary Stu that if he died they'd make him officiate at his own funeral.

[Danny Franks]

MG is trolling on Tumblr right now, and he said that there's an upcoming wedding AND marriage, and someone suggested marriage as to not testify, and he replied with "that's clever". Trolling? Clues?

 

Oliver and Laurel get married to avoid testifying, thus fulfilling 'Because Comics'. No one lives happily ever after, because they're disgusting and destructive together.

[steeledwithakiss]

MG is trolling on Tumblr right now, and he said that there's an upcoming wedding AND marriage, and someone suggested marriage as to not testify, and he replied with "that's clever". Trolling? Clues?

April fools?

[Chaser]

Oliver and Laurel get married to avoid testifying, thus fulfilling 'Because Comics'. No one lives happily ever after, because they're disgusting and destructive together.

LOL I actually had that thought too. Oliver and Laurel get married, but he is physically with Felicity which would technically be cheating. It's comic canon at that point right?

 

They are playing up Mama Smoak helping Felicity choose in their tweets. I'm more hopeful now that they will actually break up.

[AyChihuahua]

I doubt they break up in this episode, although it is possible. If yes, it'd be pretty weird/possibly funny to see them on a quasi-date in a couple weeks.

I swear to God, if they have him marry anyone for that reason, when (1) spousal privilege DOES NOT WORK LIKE THAT; (2) there are multiple other witnesses against him and he can't marry them all; (3) there is tons of other evidence against him in general; and (4) his spouse, whether Felicity or Laurel, would be facing multiple charges herself, my head WILL EXPLODE.

Edited April 1, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[Menrva]

If Oliver and Laurel got married, even for spousal privilege, I think I'd barf. Just…no.

[statsgirl]

The trope of getting married for reasons! only works if the audience wants the couple to be together.  There are GA/BC fans, but I doubt they're a majority of the audience for this show.  IMO they're already on this ice with Rayliciity.

 

It reminds of the old days of General Hospital where Ned married Chloe for reasons and Jax married Alexis, but the difference is I actually liked Jax and Alexis together.

[steeledwithakiss]

They also had Brenda marrying Jason for that very reason, not testifying, and they hated each other and actually never fell in love during the marriage. So yeah it can be done, doesn't mean I want it to be done on Arrow. I know the show is basically nighttime soap, but let's not go too far.

[SleepDeprived]

So, what's this "only Ray can save Ray" business that the CW account tweeted? Does this arrow he gets hit with have some kind of poison that only he can figure out the antidote for? Are they going to pretend he's a medical doctor now? Or does he get injected with some self-destructing tech when the arrow or whatever hits him? I don't get it.

 

Palmer probably knocks his 3 PhD-holding noggin' really hard on the floor after saving Felicity from Maseo's arrow (still don't get how he sensed the arrow coming, though. Those things fly way too fast unless Palmer has amazing reflexes--which he probably does because he's super amazing at everything ever. Unless he just decided to get Felicity down on the ground as a precaution after the mayor got shot). "Only Ray can save Ray" may be something that the doctors tell Felicity to mean that he's in a comatose-ish state/there's swelling in the brain, and it's up to him to wake from it/his body to recover from it. There really isn't much medicine can do to get him out of his unconscious state but to wait.

 

I've said this before but dang! I just can't get over how ridiculously gossipy these villains/big bads are. Like, Ra's is seriously going to just tell Quentin who the Arrow is just like Slade did with Laurel. Lol. What is it with the Lances and their inability to investigate/find out information for themselves? And to think they're the in-show professionals who are in the business of actually investigating and finding out things/connecting the dots.

 

I still think that Palmer and Felicity might break up by the end of tonight (because I'm an optimistic idiot--Heh). My guess is it'll happen during that still of Felicity holding Palmer's hand. Or, at least, the groundwork for the break-up will be laid very clearly by tonight. It's just that, most of the things CR said in her interviews are exactly what we've speculated. I'm still not watching live and will wait to see reactions before touching the recording, though. :)

 

Oh, hey, remember that still of SA with the camera strapped on his chest in the hospital in 3x19? I wonder if that's because he's trying to get to Palmer (if Palmer's still in the hospital) to ask for his help against Deathbolt? The camera viewpoint on his chest might be to up the tension! and suspense! since Oliver needs to lie low because he's a wanted man in SC now. I just remember a coffee cup in the hallway in that still of SA that I think I also saw in one of the stills of Palmer, Mama Smoak, and Felicity near his hospital room.

[Morrigan2575]

That still came from first day of filming 320. Of course this season almost every episode ends on a cliffy leading into the next episode

[statsgirl]

I rather see an episode of Villains Gossiping with Ra's, Slade, Malcolm and Cupid,, than Ray being a hero or Laurel beating a LoA assassin.

 

There are only five episodes left after tonight. It's time to fix what they broke this season.

[Genki]

Based on comic preview, do you think Roy just lead the SCPD to the Foundry or does Ra's just tell the location when he spills the beans about Oliver? Does Ra's even know the location?

[apinknightmare]

So, in the preview, what's the deal with Oliver and Ray fighting? Again? And it seems like Oliver's got that weird glove on that SA posted a pic of on his Facebook. Are they really fucking fighting again or is Ray trying out some mess with his suit and simultaneously showing Oliver how to use his new bionic hand?

[Soulfire]

Going by the early 20 sec preview for next week's episode, seems the ATOM gadgets teased by SA in the BTS photo posted weeks ago are going to be used to remotely assist Ray in physical fighting.

 

Also, I doubt the clip of Oliver strung up are from next week's ep considering they don't seem to fly to Nanda Parbat til 3x20, but. We'll see.

[nksarmi]

So only Ray can save Ray means nanotech.

 

And Roy has saved us from having a hunted Oliver Queen for the rest of his days.  I don't know what this means for Roy (he better not die) - maybe they'll break him out of prison and give him a change of identify and somehow it will just go unnoticed?  Ok, maybe this is the end of Arsenal on Arrow (this could be the capturing some things for the last time bit as Roy won't appear as Arsenal for awhile) - he could be going to another show or they'll show him in prison for a few episodes and then break him out later?  Poor Roy.

 

This also explains why Oliver is kind of sidelined in episode 19 - he can't appear as the Arrow while Roy is taking the rap for him.

[AyChihuahua]

Wow, so the only way Rag Pampers has a shot in a fight is if Oliver is controlling his body?  How is that a "hero"?  

[apinknightmare]

I just realized that in that preview Oliver's controlling Ray's suit to beat the shit out of the metahuman that chokes Felicity out. 

 

Can't lie - I'm gonna love that. 

 

Also, LOL Ray

[Guest]

Wait. So. Oliver is controlling the suit while Ray is in it? HUH?! 

 

Also if Roy dies in prison I'mma be pissed. I really don't want him to die.

[InsertWordHere]

So now it's Oliver's mind in Ray's "body?"

 

Please don't have Felicity comment on this, show!

[statsgirl]

Maybe Roy gets shipped off to prison and that's why he's not in the episodes. It's not likely he'll die if he isn't around the foundry being blown up.

 

Of course Oliver is working Ray's tech.  Bros will always be stronger than hos on this show.

[Genki]

Ray can't fight and now his suit can be controlled by another person, so easy for Ray to be a major liability. Even if the villain doesn't get his hands on the actual control, the suit is hack-able.

That is a design flaw.

[apinknightmare]

Wait. So. Oliver is controlling the suit while Ray is in it? HUH?! 

 

Yeah. In the preview you can see that Oliver's wearing a headset and gloves - I guess to throw punches since Ray won't know how to do it. Upon first glance it looked like they were fighting each other, but Oliver's doing the movements while Ray's in the suit actually punching the guy. 

 

It's a major design flaw, but I kind of get the feeling that the suit is only for Arrow and he'll actually be shrinking on his own show. 

[Chaser]

I'm thinking they do a fake out in 3x19. Roy leaves as a fugitive. Maybe Laurel going pretty far is breaking him out for Oliver. A goodbye with Roy would be pretty hard at this point. Or she goes to Quentin and owns up for her part in covering Sara's death. Getting Quentin to take the heat off of him. 

 

New theory about Thea and Felicity interaction. What if the death is a cliffhanger? Both Thea and Felicity are attacked but you don't know who the death is until 3x20. I'm going with Thea.

 

What in 3x19 makes Olicity fans go WTF? Oliver fighting as Ray?