Spoiler Discussion Thread

[closer2fine]

Is Wells in that picture? This is gonna sound crazy but do Oliver, Barry and Ronnie look kind of 'frozen' to you? Like they're on pause. I know it's hard to tell in a picture but they're all standing in the same way and I think Wells is in front of them by the looks of it. Could this just be a possible version of the future? Am I reading too much into this? Why do I even care?! Haha. 

Yeah, the photo credited Tom Cavanaugh, too.

 

If Victor Garber is also there, I might die. Can Firestorm operate alone?

[apinknightmare]

An interesting theory I found: 

 

I think he might be running a rogue mission and destroying LoA from the inside. If he were to join LoA it would undo everything he’s worked for in the past three seasons

 

I mean...he better be. Can we imagine any scenario in which he legit becomes an assassin at this point? Even if he does use the LP to revive a loved one, no way he throws in with those folks for real. 

Edited March 26, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Password]

He even told Maseo he knows Oliver better than that. I'm kinda excited.

[wonderwall]

I'm kinda excited.

 

Beware, you're on a slippery slope here

[lexicon]

I actually would love it if there was some kind of time travel hocus pocus timey wimey stuff that could magically make this season disappear. I hate how most of it has gone down and would love a do over. The time travel has to be restricted to this season only though, we don't need that hanging over us going forward.

[Password]

I'm bored of Starling. A change of scenery could work. Can you imagine a second island for Oliver with the league? Only this time he gets close to people that DON'T DIE. He'd die of confusion because then his "everything I touch dies" philosophy would be void. Hmm...I should probably stop this because I have an AU working up in my head right now. In this scenario Ra's Al Ghul is not around and everyone is super nice and only kill because...erm...let me dream.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Password

[looptab]

I'd say no to time travel only because I don't want to sit through another BC trilogy. No thank you.

[lexicon]

I'd say no to time travel only because I don't want to sit through another BC trilogy. No thank you.

 

There may have been a flaw in my plan. 

[looptab]

There may have been a flaw in my plan. 

Haha, believe me, I'm down with almost anything at this point, but you have to think where is the catch.;) If everything were to change, that would still happen. Argh. 

Edited March 26, 2015 by looptab

[SmallScreenDiva]

I actually would love it if there was some kind of time travel hocus pocus timey wimey stuff that could magically make this season disappear. I hate how most of it has gone down and would love a do over. The time travel has to be restricted to this season only though, we don't need that hanging over us going forward.

 

Might explain how SL would be alive for the spinoff. Just like they did with Cisco on The Flash. Not that I'm all for this. Like looptab said, no thanks if it means I'd have to sit through another damn hero arc for BC. And I really don't want to see Oliver and Felicity go through that awkward stage again.

Edited March 26, 2015 by SmallScreenDiva

[Starfish35]

I think there will definitely be time travel on the Flash finale - they've been building up to it all season long. The question has always been if and how much it would affect Arrow. it could be anywhere from resetting everything to not affecting the Arrow timeline at all. I honestly don't know what to think at this point. I don't think they'll reset everything, or erase the season. But I don't know that some of the effects won't carry over either. And didn't they say they weren't going to do another full-scale crossover this season?

[calliope1975]

I'm all for Flash or Reverse Flash making this season disappear. Jeez, end this season with TA on the beach after dropping Slade off, and pick up from there.

 

I can't believe that Ra's Ollie Ghul is an actual thing because that destroys what I've watched for two years, and I can't see the LOA being fine with just being a L without the OA. What a clusterfuck.

[apinknightmare]

I can't believe that Ra's Ollie Ghul is an actual thing because that destroys what I've watched for two years, and I can't see the LOA being fine with just being a L without the OA. What a clusterfuck.

 

Naively hoping that it's all a ploy. Because he's not dressed as Ra's, that must mean he's still an underling, in addition to the fact that they actually gave him a League name and named an episode after it. I think he's going to join and we're going to WTF and in the finale he and Maseo and Tatsu and hopefully Nyssa are going to take Ra's down. 

[Starfish35]

Naively hoping that it's all a ploy. Because he's not dressed as Ra's, that must mean he's still an underling, in addition to the fact that they actually gave him a League name and named an episode after it. I think he's going to join and we're going to WTF and in the finale he and Maseo and Tatsu and hopefully Nyssa are going to take Ra's down.

I like that plan.

[Angel12d]

It has to be a ploy. I'm hoping Nyssa might be involved somehow. It's no coincidence that she's on the outs with her father.

[apinknightmare]

I actually would love it if there was some kind of time travel hocus pocus timey wimey stuff that could magically make this season disappear. I hate how most of it has gone down and would love a do over. The time travel has to be restricted to this season only though, we don't need that hanging over us going forward.

 

If they were going back to the beginning of the season by using some time travel, it would make sense why SA had to get his hair cut. It wouldn't make sense for him to get a haircut to get indoctrinated into the league - half those fools have long hair. But Oliver did have a shaved head at the beginning of the season....

 

no, no

 

no

 

stopping myself there

Edited March 26, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Chaser]

Literally, what would be the point of this season if they go back to the start? Sure, Oliver would have some semblance of growth because he would remember and it would wipe out the plot lines I hated. Sara is saved so Laurel never took up the mask. Oliver can be with Felicity and keep his company so Ray is never an issue. But they can't WIPE MY MEMORY TOO!

[Carrie Ann]

Yeah...I thought about his 301 hair too, but why cut his hair before filming the timey-wimey stuff?

 

Also, I was totally against anything that would just erase this season, but not anymore! I mean, I think it's a terrible, horrible, no-good, very bad idea, but so is basically everything that's happened this year, so if we're gonna jump the shark, let's just do that. At least we could start over at Date Night. But the BC thing is the real sticking point. I just don't think they'd be willing to let go of all of the "hard" "work" LL has put in to become the BC this season.

[Angel12d]

Yeah. Erase Laurel becoming BC? NEVER gonna happen.

[statsgirl]

The only way they would erase Laurel becoming the BC is if Katie Cassidy leaves the show at the end of this season. So, never going to happen.

This season is not gonna end well. I can feel it.

I don't need it to end well (as in happily), I just need it to end consistently.  I'm afraid that's not gonna happen either.

 

 

Literally, what would be the point of this season if they go back to the start? Sure, Oliver would have some semblance of growth because he would remember and it would wipe out the plot lines I hated. Sara is saved so Laurel never took up the mask. Oliver can be with Felicity and keep his company so Ray is never an issue. But they can't WIPE MY MEMORY TOO!

Thea would still be with Malcolm and that would still be a a plotline without logic, Ra's would still be mad at Nyssa for having a woman lover, and the bomb would probably still blow up Oliver's date. We'd still be having the Hong Kong flashbcks. Not to mention, how would Ray get his suit in time for the start of the spin-off?

 

As much as I'd like to erase this season, I don't trust them to do a re-do and do it better.

[Genki]

Story-wise erasing LL's BC "evolution" would make sense, sister back- check, relationship with father repaired-check and if the "Laurel goes far for Oliver" spoiler means she destroys evidence and/or looses her job (pure speculation on my part), then that is another reason for the character reset.

Behind the scenes shananigans make it unlikely to happen.

I'm torn about a whole season reset because I don't want to regress with Thea but there is so much I want to get rid of that is in cannon.

If they hit the important plot points, starting from the date explosion and show how Oliver changes things it would be kinda interesting but it's a slippery slope. Where do you stop? Bring back Moira, Tommy....Shado?!?!

If anything bad happens to the Diggles (especially baby Sara) I will demand a reset!!

[Morrigan2575]

Do we have indication that these pics are A result of time travel or just spec at this point?

I think it's probably just indication that Oliver accepts the offer but who knows? Hopefully this fight is epic, epic, epic but epic epic was pretty lame.

[apinknightmare]

Do we have indication that these pics are A result of time travel or just spec at this point?

 

There's absolutely no indication of that at all, just spec based on the fact that Oliver's in CC with Barry and maybe a little wishful thinking despite the longshot nature of it all. 

[NumberCruncher]

Re: The time travel theory...I saw this on Tumblr and it seems somewhat plausible (given it's just the kind of ridiculousness we've come to expect from this show):

http://scu11y22.tumblr.com/post/114692339804/arrow-season-finale-time-travel-lets-do-it

I think it's a risky move to try to wave everything away that happened in S3 given they would essentially have to start from scratch with Laurel as BC and Ray as ATOM, but then again, nothing would surprise me at this point.

Edited March 26, 2015 by NumberCruncher

[dtissagirl]

I think Oliver being in LoA garb is proof this is present time, and most likely Barry needed all the help he can get to stop Doctor Wells. But that doesn't exclude the possibility of the result of this fight being time travel? Especially with two speedsters going at it? Oliver could get caught in a rift in time-continuum, for all we know.

Edited March 26, 2015 by dancingnancy

[apinknightmare]

I think Oliver being in LoA garb is proof this is present time, and most likely Barry needed all the help he can get to stop Doctor Wells. But that doesn't exclude the possibility of the result of this fight being time travel? Especially with two speedsters going at it? Oliver could get caught in a rift in time-continuum, for all we know.

 

I just can't see any time travel issues that happen and affect the Arrow happening on the Flash. Unless somehow they spin right on over to Starling City. 

 

And what on earth would Oliver be doing in CC for the League? Is this some kind of alternate universe borne of Barry messing with time? And if so, how would Oliver even know Barry? If he's in the League, why would Alternate!Universe Oliver help Barry at all? 

 

Why would current LoA member Oliver be in Central City? 

 

I do not understand what's happening. 

[dtissagirl]

Here's my crazy time-travel spec:

Oliver does go back in time to the season premiere, but I don't know, maybe Barry or Ronnie go as well, and either of them warn Oliver HE CANNOT CHANGE ANYTHING BECAUSE CATASTROPHIC PARADOXES [that these writers could not handle, let's be real]. So he manages to stay out of sight and not change the timeline at all... Except for digging Sara's grave and bringing her back with him on the trip back to the present. S3's events stand, but he can dump her in the Lazarus Pit since he's got the in with Ra's now, presto Sara!

[calliope1975]

 Especially with two speedsters going at it? Oliver could get caught in a rift in time-continuum, for all we know.

 

That's what's making me speculate. Two Speedsters going at it could potentially cause all kinds of time rift shenanigans.

 

Do I really think they'll reset the entire season? Sadly, no, though I wish that would happen. But, as others have said, time rifts could be the cause of Sara coming back or whatever plotty goodness they need to happen to make this spin-off happen. Of course, the Omega virus could play into it as well.

Edited March 26, 2015 by calliope1975

[Password]

Maybe Ra's Ollie Ghul is an alternative timeline. A timeline where Oliver accepted Ra's offer but Ra's decides to train Oliver before he gives his "throne",to him. It may free Oliver up to still visit his friends and family because he's not yet fully Ra's Ollie Ghul so he decides to help Barry when he receives a smoke signal.

I mean...there are alternate time lines right? Barry could be stuck there trying to get back to his time because of something Wells does.

[tv echo]

If Oliver has become Ra's and is using the LP, then that scene could take place in the future and Oliver would still look the same.  Barry would time travel to the future and meet the future Oliver.

[Belinea]

The time travel seems like a good idea but I don't know if they'd go there because some plot holes would present itself.

 

Would they just change what happened between the beginning of S3 and now. Meaning that it would still be present time but because things happened differently that we as they viewer would have never seen it coming?

 

In a new timeline Roy and Sara could be alive but Ray would still have needed Felicity's help with the suite. And Laurel still needs to be BC. Otherwise what is her purpose?

 

If they go back to the beginning of S3 it would be like admitting that the whole season didn't work and it would still have the same Laurel and Ray problems. I doubt anyone wants to see them become vigilantes again.

 

Oh and while I do like crossovers, I have to admit that I wish they'd do one, maybe two next season and just leave it at that. I don't know why but there are too many people running around now. But at least SA got his wish to work with RA.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Belinea

[dtissagirl]

I'm now getting super attached to my crazy theory, I almost feel like doing homework and watching old time travel episodes of Farscape and SG-1. Imo, the best time travel stories are the ones where the traveler knows he CANNOT CHANGE ANYTHING OR ELSE, which I'm assuming is the lesson Barry is gonna have to learn about wanting to go back and save his mother. Robbing Sara's body from her grave doesn't change anything, except for being able to revive her in the present.

Edited March 26, 2015 by dancingnancy

[nksarmi]

Hi all! I'm totally new to pretv (but I did post on TWOP at one time).  I've been avoiding it because I'm already way too obsessed with this show, but the time travel possibility got me. 

 

I was actually thinking about how this could play out on Flash and impact Arrow in a way that would almost work for me.  If Wells gets busted this season, but somehow has a continguency plan - I think we could see him reset certain things from the moment Barry's mom was killed on - but mostly impact the past year.  For example, if they are planning to introduce Wally West as Iris' nephew as of right now - that can't happen.  But what if - for whatever reason - Wells ensures that Joe doesn't adopt Barry in the past?  Perhaps Joe does adopt a different child, Iris gets a sibling, and in the future they can bring WW in through the canonically relationship.

 

Wells could also decide to take out certain members of Team Arrow by luring them to Central City and hoping they die in his partical accelerator accident.  If they did this, we could flash to Sara telling Laurel she got a lead on Merlyn being in CC and they got together to check it out and somehow Laurel gets effected by the new accident and she gets the actually Canary Cry (something fans have wanted for awhile) - and this brings Sara back to life for the spin off.

 

At the same time, Palmer could go to CC to try to buy Star Labs, get caught in the explosion and end up really becoming the shrinking Atom instead of the suit we have now.  This could completely erase Raylicity (which I don't personally mind but many people seem to dislike it) while still setting him up for the spin-off.  They could also say he still put a bid in for Oliver's company but didn't win it this time around so Queen Consolidated can come back into being (something that newspaper clipping on Flash has indicated would happen all season).

 

Maybe even Roy will go to CC looking for Thea and lose an arm or something.  Plus I know Flash fans keep saying Cisco needs to become Vibe and Snow needs to become Killer Frost.  If they explosion plays out diffrently, maybe that can happen for Flash season two.

 

I can't make it all make sense to why Wells would try to lure Arrow people to CC and hope they die in the explosion, but maybe there are things that haven't happened on Flash yet that would help this theory along.  While I don't usually like reset buttons, I can see all of this working to make the spin-off make sense.

[BkWurm1]

. BkWurm1, you were predicting that at the end of the season, Oliver will realize Starling City can be taken care of by the other vigilantes and he'll retire to being Oliver Queen.  Still a possible?

 

From a narrative standpoint it still would work but that assumes Oliver gets out of his Ra’s Ollie Guhl problem in a timely way and I’m feeling less and less certain about this.  Is this the year of the big cliffhanger with the team scattered?  If so, it makes no sense for going full Oliver Queen but if he’s retired the Arrow to be Ra’s thus leaving Starling in safe hands, I could still see when  he gets out of Ra's duties returning to Starling and thinking he could now go back to being just Oliver. 

 

 

Something that supports him going full Oliver Queen is we seem to be nowhere near Oliver coming to terms on how to balance his life, this last episode just reemphasized his certainty that he can't save the city and be in a relationship- for him it has to be one or the other so if we want or expect Olicity anytime soon maybe this is only option?

 

 

Maybe instead of a season ender though it's a new season opener?  Let it be Ra’s Ollie all summer and then boom, twenty minutes into the first episode he comes home and everyone is all "when are you going to suit up?" and he’s all, no, there is no Arrow, there is only Oliver Queen.

Edited March 27, 2015 by BkWurm1

[DrSpaceman10]

I think that if Oliver was still going to be part of the LOA at the end of this season they wouldn't have had him suit up in the LOA costume until 3x23, so that Oliver being the new Ra's could be a cliffhanger of sorts. The fact they they had him suit up earlier than 3x23 (seemingly) makes me think he'll find a way to get out of the League before this season is over. 

[BkWurm1]

I think that if Oliver was still going to be part of the LOA at the end of this season they wouldn't have had him suit up in the LOA costume until 3x23, so that Oliver being the new Ra's could be a cliffhanger of sorts. The fact they they had him suit up earlier than 3x23 (seemingly) makes me think he'll find a way to get out of the League before this season is over. 

Crosses fingers. 

[dcinmb]

I don't condone violence of any kind but I have a feeling we're ALL going to relish Oliver punching Ray.

Although now that I've vocalized that, if you think about it, the poor guy hasn't really done anything wrong. He's not smug. He's not an asshole. He's been good to Felicity and good for her as well. It's really too bad the writers had to make him borderline stalkery when they introduced him. Stupid writers.

 

I retract my previous post. He IS an asshole, he is NOT good to Felicity and she needs to be rid of him, stat.

 

ETA: But the writers are still stupid.

Edited March 27, 2015 by dcinmb

[statsgirl]

Still, it would make the 3.5 comics more interesting if he were still Ra's Ollie Ghul.  If he's wearing the LoA get-up in Flash 1x22, there's not much time to wrap up that storyline.

 

I'm getting impatient for all this stuff to wrap up though. It's time now.  Thea got her groove, Laurel is BC, Ray gets even more of a jerk, and they've massacred Felicity enough..

 

ETA:

 

He IS an asshole, he is NOT good to Felicity and she needs to be rid of him, stat.

The longer he's on, the more he's disliked.  I  hope that's not what the EPs were going for.

Edited March 27, 2015 by statsgirl

[catrox14]

I'm so happy for Stephen and Robbie Amell to share the screen at long last.  That's awesome

[Hook75]

So now they are throwing Maseo under the bus to prop Ray and R&F?

[quarks]

So now they are throwing Maseo under the bus to prop Ray and R&F?

 

To be fair, it's entirely possible that at this point, shooting Ray might make Maseo considerably more popular.

[statsgirl]

But only if it's a kill shot.

 

If he only wounds Ray and we get Felicity all guilty and loving next episode because Ray saved her life, I might be tempted to go after Maseo myself.

 

(I was so hoping Felicity would break up with Ray when he got out of the hospital but after Suicide Tendencies, it looks like that cancer is going to go on and on.)

[Scribbles]

Is it possible the photos of the Amells and Gustin are a promo photo shoot for the network?

[Hook75]

I agree, if it kills Ray - I'm all for it.

 

But it won't- and Pod Felicity will put the first stone in Ray's shrine (the one the writers sacrifice a new character every day) for saving her life and being a (gag me) hero.

 

Everything is a plot to prop Ray.

 

Is it possible the photos of the Amells and Gustin are a promo photo shoot for the network?

 

 

Very.

Edited March 27, 2015 by Hook75

[catrox14]

This season gives a whole new meaning to "prop masters".. :(

[statsgirl]

I thought they were tiny plastic characters when I first saw the pictures.  They still look very posed.

 

 

"You were more than 'just friends.' I saw it in your eyes." #DialogueTease  #PublicEnemy

Donna to Felicity?  Or Ray to her?

[dtissagirl]

So, the dialog tease. Mama Smoak, or Palmer's break-up speech?

[Chaser]

I would like it to be in their break up speech, but its probably Mama Smoak. Which I am fine with, if it leads to Felicity actually talking. If it doesn't, then frankly I would trade the reminder for Felicity working comms in the Cave. 

Edited March 27, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[statsgirl]

If it is Donna, then Felicity will just launch into the "Oliver doesn't believe he can have a relationship" for the eleventy billionth time.  I really don't need to hear that again.

 

On the other hand, I'd be very happy to go to Central City with Ray and Felicity if they're no longer together.

[Password]

And have her utter that horrifying line about Ray being Barry in Oliver's body?

Is it ep 18 or 19 spoiler? I'm sure she'll ignore it or explain away her feelings for Ray. She's over Oliver now. Snort.