Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Genki]

I'm kind of disappointed that it seems Oliver/Felicity don't have scenes in 3.18, as per MG's Tumblr, since this means there won't be Donna/Oliver Scenes. Especially coming off the Flash x-over with 50 shades and the assumed injury of Felicity. 

[apinknightmare]

I'm kind of disappointed that it seems Oliver/Felicity don't have scenes in 3.18, as per MG's Tumblr, since this means there won't be Donna/Oliver Scenes. Especially coming off the Flash x-over with 50 shades and the assumed injury of Felicity.

The Flash ep is set to air after the Arrow one, IIRC. So Felicity and Ray will go to CC after whatever happens in 3x18 (unless this changed?) So whatever has her at/in the hospital in that ep didn't happen in CC.

I think we were discussing up thread that the hospital at this point seems to be the setting for something not necessarily related to someone being hurt - I know there's suppoosed to be an injury, but I think it might be somewhat minor and that MS and Felicity just happen to be there when something goes down?

[strikera0]

With the upcoming Nyssa storyline, I wonder if they're thinking of trying her in the spin-off too if Caity returns as Sara. It would be awesome to have the two together and in a relationship but I was rather hoping that Laurel would be sent over there to make up the female quotient and Thea enter the lair as a junior fighter.

 

With the upcoming Nyssa/Laurel storyline, I was actually thinking that the writers may be trying to mold Nyssa after the Lady Shiva character in the comics and make her an eventual (part-time) member of the Birds of Prey. 

[kismet]

Have we figured out why Mama Smoak is even in town yet? I mean I can't think of a reason she would be in town for an episode called Public Enemy. Esp considering her scenes will only be with Felicity in a hospital with an injured (unknown who) party... If the injury is minor, why are they in a hospital? If the injury is major why is nobody else there to interact? Did the original spoiler say that MS would not interact with Team Arrow? ATOM/RP would still be an option then, which makes me think hes possibly the injured party? Then they go to CC fix his suit & hes back for end of s3. There's been nothing significant released about 319 yet has there? Maybe MS just has bad timing on her visits & the hospital is insignificant but MG knew it would increase fan buzz.

[apinknightmare]

I was thinking the injury would be major enough to require a trip to the hospital (a deep cut, a sprain or something), but not major enough to require an actual stay. Whatever it would take to get them to the hospital, where some kind of action happens. i mean, someone mentions hospital sex so how bad could it be?

MG said that MS wouldn't be interacting with any other cast members (or something of the like), so I think that includes Ray. So maybe he's hurt and incapacitated? Or maybe Felicity will get a little story with just her mom outside of her two love interests? Dare to hope...

Edited February 27, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Genki]

MG said that MS wouldn't be interacting with any other cast members (or something of the like), so I think that includes Ray. So maybe he's hurt and incapacitated? Or maybe Felicity will get a little story with just her mom outside of her two love interests? Dare to hope...

 

Unfortunately I think it's doubtful with the "hospital sex" tease. (But we can hope that MS is referring to her past shenanigans)

 

The answer about Mama Smoak's interaction was unclear because the question was about Thea but I think Oliver is off the Table, but not Ray.

[Belinea]

Maybe Ray has an accident with the suit in 3x17 and he is in the hospital. Mama Smoak will just show up for whatever reason and Ray after being fine again might suggest hospital sex to Felicity to feel better. She will have that and the next best thing. The guys at Star Labs. They go there and will have a fight with the villain of the week and in 3x19 Ray will question whether he is fit to be a hero because he wasn't prepared for an actual enemy. 

Edited February 27, 2015 by Belinea

[apinknightmare]

Unfortunately I think it's doubtful with the "hospital sex" tease. (But we can hope that MS is referring to her past shenanigans)

The answer about Mama Smoak's interaction was unclear because the question was about Thea but I think Oliver is off the Table, but not Ray.

The question was whether she'd interact with Thea or other characters and he said "unfortunately not, you'll see why." Later someone asked about her interacting with Oliver or maybe Diggle (I can't remember which), and he also said no, so I think he caught the "or other characters" because in the original question and that really is a no for her interacting with anyone other than Felicity, although I wouldn't be surprised to see Ray pop up in a scene, because who knows with MG at this point. It seems like they wouldn't be able to resist putting her, Ray, and MS in a scene together, but MS and Ray have already met, so IDK.

So, if MS isn't incapacitated from injury and they are there for something relatively minor that puts them in the hospital to either get them out of or into some action plot-wise (if they really are working off of the Public Enemy storyline from the Green Arrow comics) could be that MS says something about hospital sex in reference to a hot doctor or whatever.

Edited February 27, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Guest]

I thought Ray would be the one in hospital because in 319 he starts to question or doubt himself as a hero, doesn't he? Being injured might explain that, particularly if he's shaken up by it. I don't know. I don't even care about Ray. LOL.

[Danny Franks]

I thought Ray would be the one in hospital because in 319 he starts to question or doubt himself as a hero, doesn't he? Being injured might explain that, particularly if he's shaken up by it. I don't know. I don't even care about Ray. LOL.

 

Yeah, but injuring Felicity because of some minor miscalculation would also give them plenty of angst fuel for the obsessive stalker who seems to be trying to force Felicity into the role once filled by his dead fiance. And that seems like a more likely route for these writers. Why injure your male hero when you can injure the woman who exists to be his love interest?

 

They already did that with Oliver, and you know they'll go to that well again whenever it suits.

[Sakura12]

Or they can use that has a parallel with Felicity getting hurt on a date with Oliver which made him push her away from him. However Felicity getting injured on a date with Ray brings them closer together. Because this season seems to be shoving the Ray is a better version of Oliver story. When I think they are both pretty shitty boyfriend material. 

 

This will have to go on until the final episodes of the season when Ray leaves to go to his new show and Oliver gets his head out of his ass and fights to get Felicity. Then they will end the season with Olicity and for kicks have them break up in the season 4 premiere so fans won't get to see them date. Of course Olicity dating will be available to read in the in-between comics. They are not ready to commit to an endgame. 

[Password]

What could make Oliver possibly seem like a good option right now? Ray is a masterpiece of perfection, Oliver might become the head of an assassination organisation. I mean this is a no brainer.

[Danny Franks]

What could make Oliver possibly seem like a good option right now? Ray is a masterpiece of perfection, Oliver might become the head of an assassination organisation. I mean this is a no brainer.

 

No but you see, that's real romance. Giving up the supposedly perfect man in favour of the fucked up mess, because you just love him that much.

 

If you hear a squishy noise, that's just my eyes rolling so much that they actually fell out of my head onto the floor.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Danny Franks

[Belinea]

So Ra's offers his place to Oliver...Why would Oliver not take it? Does he have a lot life left in Starling? I mean he lost his family and Felicity and he doesn't have any  friends expect for Diggle but Diggle has his own family now too.

 

I am asking because the logical thing would be to have him say no. But this season he acts so strange that I am not sure he wouldn't say no. He goes back to Starling and brings his affairs in order and goes back. I am not sure the writers wouldn't do it. SA also posted about his secret fitting. I saw some speculation that he gets LoA costume. Wasn't there also a spoiler about changing suits? It is very confusing. Maybe the fitting is for something else (that movie he gets to do) or they put him back in an actual business suit. But maybe he decides to take the offer. Which would essentially kill the Oliver part, right? What good would the show then be? Oliver loses his humanity and gets to be leader. What happens next? Nothing because nobody will fight for his soul anymore. (Certainly not Felicity)  And yes I am still miffed about R/F. 

[Chaser]

You can't fight for someone who isn't willing to fight for themselves.

Edited February 27, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[jay741982]

You can't fight for someone who isn't willing to fight for themselves.

Yep and it's clear that why Felicity has given up but Diggle hasnt it seems. Yet Again Cause Ray is so awesome MG makes sure Felicity gets isolated from Team Arrow

[Password]

And even if Oliver started fighting for himself, I can't really see Felicity saying, "Deuces, Ray." I really do wonder how this will play out. I'm convinced Ray will ask her to leave with him.

[Chaser]

I wouldn't want Felicity to end her relationship with Ray because Oliver suddenly decided he can be with her. Ideally, I want her and Ray to have a Lorelai and Chris break up scene (I jumped - Lauren Graham was amazing in that scene). Acknowledge the relationship for what it is. Again, ideally, this would happen in 3.19/3.20 leaving a few episodes of Oliver and Felicity getting closer. Maybe in a mirror of ep. 1 she asks him out this time (only if there isn't a time jump because I want to see everything).

 

I think a part of them were both kind of waiting for each other, or holding on to something. I'm actually hopeful that with Ray and Felicity/Malcolm/LOA, Oliver and Felicity fall back in a S2 relationship (friendshp and tension/chemistry, but no flirting because Felicity is with Ray). I think they NEED to re-establish that connection to successfully tie Felicity to his humanity. Otherwise, he is just seeing her as pie in the sky.

 

Moving topics, does anyone else find these new players as a cop-out for Oliver's theme this season? They sold the season as Oliver learning to be Oliver and the Arrow (I do think at this point, its not so much learning as fighting). But I feel its less about accepting and finding a balance, because now there is Arsenal, Buckles and Atom to take the load. He can just take a night off...Unless the answer is really he can't be both, but he can be Ra's.

[apinknightmare]

I was just looking at MG's Tumblr and the questions about Oliver finding out about Felicity and Ray. I wonder what exactly he thinks is going on between them? He saw them kissing, but then Felicity said the thing about fantasizing that he'd do things differently when he came back, indicating that maybe she hoped they could be together. So would he really be all that surprised to find out that they're dating or whatever?

[Ariah]

 Ray is a masterpiece of perfection, Oliver might become the head of an assassination organisation. I mean this is a no brainer.

 

Naturally it's a no brainer - Oliver all the way, with all his faults and dumb decisions and teary eyes and twitching fingers. Scars are a bonus.

[catrox14]

I'll be honest. I would still take Oliver in a minute over Ray no matter how fucked up he is because at heart I believe Oliver is a good man who had been through things that no person should ever have to go through. And he's trying to make something good out of it. He's made a metric butt-ton of mistakes but I have always believed that Oliver, in his own fucked up ways has always had the best interests of the people he loves at heart, even when he's completely annoying about. 

 

And I think he would take the Ra's role because he would want to turn into something good. 

[statsgirl]

But I thought Oliver already thought R/F were in a relationship since episode 7? I mean, he did walk in on them kissing and MG did say that Oliver still thinks that F/R are in a relationship... Or am I just making that up?

Who knows what Oliver thought. It's not like they can actually have a conversation and use their words.

 

Maybe Oliver thought that after he told Felicity he loved her, mid walking away, she would dump Ray because Oliver loves her. Not actually be with her, but he loves her. *rme*  Who knows if Oliver thinks at all this season?

 

Even if Oliver turns down Ra's, I still don't have much respect left for him at this point.  MG has managed to kill all of the love I had for Olicity, and most of the admiration I had for Oliver Queen.

 

This will have to go on until the final episodes of the season when Ray leaves to go to his new show and Oliver gets his head out of his ass and fights to get Felicity. Then they will end the season with Olicity and for kicks have them break up in the season 4 premiere so fans won't get to see them date. Of course Olicity dating will be available to read in the in-between comics. They are not ready to commit to an endgame. 

LOL.

 

If Ray and Felicity break up because Ray is going to his new show, or rather suddenly reasons! appear for them to break up,  I'm going to feel even more cheated. This has been such a stupid plotline to keep Oliver and Felicity apart for no good reason.

 

Unfortunately I think it's doubtful with the "hospital sex" tease. (But we can hope that MS is referring to her past shenanigans)

I'm afraid it's going to be teasing hospital sex with Ray now that Felicity is sleeping with him.  MG's already ruined Diggle's wedding for me, now watch him ruin this episode to.

 

I really really REALLY do not want to watch Oliver make puppy dog eyes at Felicity when she's with Ray.  I want intelligent people dealing in an adult way with life events, not the usual CW soap opera.

 

-- In response to fan saying that it's about time Oliver got some competition and that maybe seeing her happy with another man will make him realize he's an idiot for ever letting her go, MG says: "Well said."

I get the impression that there was a lot of negative comments about Felicity sleeping with Ray, and MG is grasping at a straw that sees it his way.  It's another in what's now getting to be a long list of mistaken assumptions about the audience.

Edited February 27, 2015 by statsgirl

[Guest]

I used to think differently because I was naive and hopeful but I don't think there's much chance of Olicity happening this season. They've left the whole Raylicity thing play out way too late. We've only got 8 episodes left. 

 

I do think there's a chance Raylicity will break up and Felicity will finally tell Oliver she loves him (I'm still holding out hope that she does) but as for any further progress beyond that? Doubtful.

 

That being said, MG (in a pretty respectful response) said that Oliver and Felicity have big scenes in 316, 317, 319 and "DO NOT even get me started on 320." So who knows what the hell they're doing? But I think it's quite clear that Ray and Felicity will be dating for a while yet.

 

On the topic of Oliver and his identity struggles, I'm not sure how he even contemplates being Ra's because Ra's kills people and Oliver isn't that person anymore, at least I didn't think so. He doesn't want to kill people. He chose another way. Unless he considers it so the 'student defeats the master' thing becomes a bit of foreshadowing. 

[Password]

On the topic of Oliver and his identity struggles, I'm not sure how he even contemplates being Ra's because Ra's kills people and Oliver isn't that person anymore, at least I didn't think so. He doesn't want to kill people. He chose another way. Unless he considers it so the 'student defeats the master' thing becomes a bit of foreshadowing.

This is what baffles me. Unless Oliver plans on reforming the league of people who kill other people, his no kill rule will be squashed. He's so intent on Thea not killing that I don't understand how it's even a choice.

[Danny Franks]

You can't fight for someone who isn't willing to fight for themselves.

 

Taking it to the relationships thread.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Danny Franks

[lemotomato]

That being said, MG (in a pretty respectful response) said that Oliver and Felicity have big scenes in 316, 317, 319 and "DO NOT even get me started on 320." So who knows what the hell they're doing? But I think it's quite clear that Ray and Felicity will be dating for a while yet.

.

Did Oliver and Sara break up in 2x20 last year? I mean, they followed the same timeline for for the start of their roadblock romance this year, give or take 2 episodes. Is it too much to hope that Ray/Felicity won't last as long as Oliver/Sara because at least the latter got a romantic song when they got together?

[Guest]

This is what baffles me. Unless Oliver plans on reforming the league of people who kill other people, his no kill rule will be squashed. He's so intent on Thea not killing that I don't understand how it's even a choice.

 

I suppose he has to consider it because what's the alternative? If he says no, I doubt Ra's will be all "Well, ok, dude. At least I asked. You be on your way now. Safe journey and all that." Lol. I guess he has to decide what has the least impact on the people he loves. I don't know. I'm trying to logic this and I keep falling into stupid plot holes. 

 

But there's also the fact that Oliver doesn't really believe his own soul is worth saving, still, after all he's been through. Maybe he thinks he should just be a killer again? Character regression clearly doesn't matter this season. But as I said, no idea. The whole thing is really hard to understand.

 

 

Did Oliver and Sara break up in 2x20 last year? I mean, they followed the same timeline for for the start of their roadblock romance this year, give or take 2 episodes. Is it too much to hope that Ray/Felicity won't last as long as Oliver/Sara because at least the latter got a romantic song when they got together?

 

 

I think so? I can't remember the exact episode. It was definitely before the final three. 

 

Having seen the Ray/Felicity scene by mistake on tumblr (I think I just needed to see it just to get it out the way lol), I don't think it's too much to hope that they won't last long. It was hella awkward and the scene barely lasted 30 seconds. They spent more time on Olicity's first kiss than they did the whole of the Raylicity hookup. And it's very obviously been written as a stall tactic. I don't know how long they'll use it though. 

Edited February 27, 2015 by Guest

[Password]

You know if Oliver came even close to beating Ra's it might make sense. But except for that *gasp* moment where it seemed he would, Oliver had his behind handed to him. Does Ra's see something in Oliver that we don't? Because all I see is terrible decision making and doing things before thinking it through. I mean there's mentoring, then there's sending him to Business School. Oliver is bad.

[kismet]

Who knows what Oliver thought. It's not like they can actually have a conversation and use their words.

I think Oliver assumes Ray & Felicity are together. I don't think he cares to hear the details... I wouldn't if I was him. That quick secs of footage was enough, if not too much for me. I think that explains some of his behavior towards her when he was leaving the first time. It was a very stoic ILY & head kiss, Im sure he thought he'd come back, but it was respectful of her "relationship" w/ RP so as to not cause any problems. Perhaps, that even explains some of his behavior since the his return from the dead. He seems to not want to take advantage of whatever connection they previously he. Remember, he wants her to be happy. He truly does not believe that he is capable or worthy of making her happy. Sad, but true. Which is why I don't think RP/FS relationship will have any bearing on his choosing to be Ras or not. As much as I would love to see the wedding be a big catalyst in opening up his eyes it won't. It might open Felicity's but the writers don't generally care about her epiphanies. Its not about OQ losing Felicity, he already thinks he has - its about OQ accepting that he is worthy of happiness. Her break-up from RP I think will be independent of his realization, if he even has one this season. But people are right the timing of the lunges, hook-ups & break-ups are right on par w/ S/O relationship.

 

Which is why I think he'll go further down the rabbit hole in pursuing Ra's offers because he will see it as a way to redeem whatever is left of his soul by ridding world of evil. And like @catrox14 said, I think he will try to make LoA good or at least not as evil.

[Pyramid]

Going back a bit do we know the hospital scene isn't a flash back? It would explain why Mama Smoak doesn't interact with anyone else.

[apinknightmare]

Going back a bit do we know the hospital scene isn't a flash back? It would explain why Mama Smoak doesn't interact with anyone else.

Yes, MG said it's in present day.

[Chaser]

Going back a bit do we know the hospital scene isn't a flash back? It would explain why Mama Smoak doesn't interact with anyone else.

LOL Totally didn't think of that and it would actually make sense.

 

ETA: Other then what apinknightmare said.

Edited February 27, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[Chaser]

What kind of hell will Ra's rain down? If they send in all the ninja's, its just a repeat of last season with Slade. And why would Ra's kill all these innocent people to get to Oliver? Wouldn't that be against some code?

 

If he does a targeted attack on Oliver's loved ones, isn't that a repeat of Slade too?

[Hook75]

Maybe Ray has an accident with the suit in 3x17 and he is in the hospital. 

 

 

Maybe Felicity is pg. Didn't they mentioned Ra's has a virus or something?

 

Honestly, if it doesn't involved Oliver, I don't GAF. It seems like Felicity has moved to the Atom show.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Hook75

[KirkB]

Nyssa told Oliver that if he didn't turn over Sara's killer the League would start killing people in Starling until he did. That was why he said he did it. So I don't think the League has any sort of code against killing innocent people. Which is why I found it strange Ra's had such a problem with the Undertaking. I get the feeling he wasn't upset Malcolm killed all those people but that he disobeyed him and did it anyway after he said not to.

Edited February 27, 2015 by KirkB

[statsgirl]

Oh, but now that he's lost Felicity to Ray, as he'll find out in the next few episodes, why shouldn't he start killing people?  It's not like the character has made any sense all season.

 

 

What kind of hell will Ra's rain down? If they send in all the ninja's, its just a repeat of last season with Slade. And why would Ra's kill all these innocent people to get to Oliver? Wouldn't that be against some code?

 

If he does a targeted attack on Oliver's loved ones, isn't that a repeat of Slade too?

Maybe it will involve the Alpha/Omega drug. The problem is, why would he do it?  Because Oliver turned him down and he's pissed off at him?  If that's the emotional level the Head of the LoA works on, definitely give it to Nyssa and her PMS.

 

Reply about the Raylicty scene in the Relationship thread.

[Danny Franks]

Honestly, if it doesn't involved Oliver, I don't GAF. It seems like Felicity has moved to the Atom show.

 

That should be the motto for this show. And bizarrely enough, it was in season 2. They even admitted that they "looked for the Oliver in every story". Now it sounds like they actively try to avoid any Oliver at all. They even 'killed' him so that they could give more time to their favourites.

 

Whoever is in hospital, and for whatever reason, I doubt it will involve Oliver at all. He'll probably be running around, hiding from the police or mulling over whether to become the next Ace Rimmer... sorry, Ra's Al Gut. He'd have to stop doing sit-ups, that's for sure.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Danny Franks

[Genki]

@Danny Franks Thumbs up for the Red Dwarf reference.

 

 

What kind of hell will Ra's rain down? If they send in all the ninja's, its just a repeat of last season with Slade. And why would Ra's kill all these innocent people to get to Oliver? Wouldn't that be against some code?

 

If he does a targeted attack on Oliver's loved ones, isn't that a repeat of Slade too?

 

 

 I would say isolate Oliver form his support and team and leave him with nothing, but the Writer have already done it in the first half of the season.

 

He lost his family legacy

He already has no life outside of the Arrow cave

Lance is already pissed off about Sara (He should be pissed off at Laurel, but if he knows Oliver is the Arrow I can see him ultimately blaming him for setting her on the path to her death, alla Season 1 hatred)

Felicity's and his relationship is strained

His think the city doesn't need him anymore and the team isn't the same

 

I guess he can frame Oliver and/or turn public opinion against him (photos of a Malcolm Merlyn team up makes it so easy to accomplish), then reveal his secret identity. He could also reveal the location of the lair, but it already has a open door policy.

[Chaser]

Can you imagine being a citizen of Starling City? First, the Hood is a serial killer. Then he is the Arrow, a Hero. Then he disppears for a monthish and lets the city go to chaos. Then he comes back, promises not to leave them again. Then they may find out he works with the massive murderer Malcolm Merlyn. Wow.

 

I can't figure out if he joins the LOA or not. There is no reason for a Ra's v Oliver showdown if he does. It feels too late in the season to do a 'double-agent' Oliver to build to a showdown. It doesn't make sense for Oliver to remain in Starling City if he does accept the offer and we know he is in Starling City.

 

MG said that Felicity factors in to his choice. I hope she (and Diggle) talk some sense into him.

[Danny Franks]

 

MG said that Felicity factors in to his choice. I hope she (and Diggle) talk some sense into him.

 

I'd think it more likely that Oliver sees that she's with Ray and that makes him want to put more distance between them. To protect his own heart, and probably out of some noble notion that him being around might hurt Felicity's chances of being happy with another guy. Hey presto, Ra's Ollie Ghul is born! Briefly.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Danny Franks

[jay741982]

@Danny Franks Thumbs up for the Red Dwarf reference.

 

 

 

 

 I would say isolate Oliver form his support and team and leave him with nothing, but the Writer have already done it in the first half of the season.

 

He lost his family legacy

He already has no life outside of the Arrow cave

Lance is already pissed off about Sara (He should be pissed off at Laurel, but if he knows Oliver is the Arrow I can see him ultimately blaming him for setting her on the path to her death, alla Season 1 hatred)

Felicity's and his relationship is strained

His think the city doesn't need him anymore and the team isn't the same

 

I guess he can frame Oliver and/or turn public opinion against him (photos of a Malcolm Merlyn team up makes it so easy to accomplish), then reveal his secret identity. He could also reveal the location of the lair, but it already has a open door policy.

Ra's could have someone he loves killed or tortured along with your ideas of revealing his secret identity and working with Malcolm

[statsgirl]

But why would Ra's go after Oliver now?  He knows MM killed Thea. To go after Oliver because he's been turned down himself is so pissy.

 

 

I'd think it more likely that Oliver sees that she's with Ray and that makes him want to put more distance between them. To protect his own heart, and probably out of some noble notion that him being around might hurt Felicity's chances of being happy with another guy. Hey presto, Ra's Ollie Ghul is born! Briefly.

Yes. The idiot that is Oliver in s3 is going to look at Felicity with Ray at Diggle's wedding, and jump on Ra's offer.

Just what I want to see on the show.  Not.

[Guest]

I'd like to know how becoming Ra's is supposedly going to help deal with the problem of saving Thea's soul. If Oliver does take him up on his offer, that means he'll be leaving his sister YET AGAIN when she needs him most. Oliver no. Oliver stop.

[Password]

Oliver has made no sense so far in the season so I don't think this is an issue.

Edited February 28, 2015 by Limbo

[TrueMyth]

What kind of hell will Ra's rain down? If they send in all the ninja's, its just a repeat of last season with Slade. And why would Ra's kill all these innocent people to get to Oliver? Wouldn't that be against some code?

 

If he does a targeted attack on Oliver's loved ones, isn't that a repeat of Slade too?

What if he is somehow responsible for outing the Arrow or attacking his reputation?  What if he takes down the Arrow's good name?  Hence "Public Enemy"?  If this season is about identity, shouldn't the threat be to that identity?

 

Not sure why it's worth it to Ra's, but I could see him underscoring the fact that Oliver moves outside the law now anyway.  Even Laurel was thrown by the "taking prisoners" thing (although, what Laurel, you know he doesn't kill, What did you think happened to Slade?  For that matter, what did Laurel do to the guy she caught in her first suit reveal.  Do we assume she dropped him for the police?  Ehem, I digress).  I don't quite see how Ra's could arrange things, but...

 

Wait, when does the Arrow vs. Arrow fight happen?  Copy cat from the League?  Pulling the same thing as Merlyn did as the Dark Archer in season one, but better, to the point where Lance is coming after the Arrow and all his crew.  If Ra's can get the city to turn against him, Oliver will have lost most of what makes Oliver Queen and the Arrow... what's left? 

 

Now I'm having Buffy flashbacks.  Becoming, part two, anyone?  Is that what it's going to take for Oliver to send Ra's through the portal of doom or whatever?

 

P.s. Has anyone tried to lip read EBR's blipped spoiler?

Edited February 28, 2015 by TrueMyth

[Ariah]

 

P.s. Has anyone tried to lip read EBR's blipped spoiler?

 

Not a lip reading, but I'm thinking since SA said something about wanting to hit Ray Palmer... Perhaps EBR alluded to the fact that Oliver in fact hits Palmer in an episode when they disagree.

[looptab]

I'm thinking Ra's would go after Oliver if he refuses his offer because, as stated in some interviews, Ra's isn't exactly asking. And maybe all the events of 318 and 319 are things that will push him towards accepting? We don't know what timeframe Ra's gives him to decide, it could be it'll be more than just the next episode, and he'll consider it for a while.

Edited February 28, 2015 by looptab

[Kordi]

And maybe all the events of 318 and 319 are things that will push him towards accepting?

That's what I think, too. I believe that in 3x16 Oliver will turn down Ra's offer, thus igniting Ra's anger. Then some time after Diggle's wedding, which Oliver attends, he will reconsider his decision and finally accept Ra's offer.

The following events might push Oliver towards changing his mind (all my personal speculation):

(i) Thea kills Malcolm, and thereby, Oliver loses his sister to "the dark side". All his fighting for Malcolm and against Ra's turns out to have been in vain. Thus, there is one reason less for Oliver to stay in Starling City. He can't protect Thea anymore.

(ii) Oliver witnesses Felicity's and Ray's "committing" (SA quote) to each other... Isn't it Felicity who catches Lyla's flowers at the wedding reception?

(iii) Oliver "loses" Diggle... My fear is that an assassin of the League kills Diggle at his own wedding (or shortly after) - Ra's revenge for Oliver turning down his offer in 3x16 ('cause everything has to turn as dark and grim as possible, right?). Alternatively, they could construe some other kind of conflict between Diggle and Oliver... IDK.

(iv) Lance (and Starling City in general) return to the previous point of view that the Arrow is a dangerous criminal and must be arrested. Maybe some copycat villain who pretends to be the Arrow turns the public opinion against Starling City's former hero?

(v) Ray (with his new suit) demonstrates that he is more powerful and capable when it comes to fighting villains - at least when these villains turn out to be metahumans.

I stick to the speculation I mentioned earlier in this thread that S3 is planned to end as a tragedy: Oliver is going to lose EVERYTHING and EVERYBODY in his life - and therefore gives up/ abandons EVERYTHING from his part: Starling City, Thea, Felicity and Diggle, the green hood and his hero ideals (i.e. "no killing rule"). He ends up like Sara at the end of S2: He joins the LoA (and accepts Ra's offer), because he believes that there is no place for him anymore in Starling City. Nothing left worth saving (or in need of being saved by Oliver).

Imagine the last shot of the season finale to be like this: We watch the scene again which the EPs used (at SDCC 2014?) to tease the appearance of Ra's al Ghul in S3. We see the boots, the robes, the jewelry, ... and finally *shocker* the face: it's Oliver's - he is the new "Demon's Head" (although I like the nick name "Ra's Ollie Ghul" better, lol).

ETA: I can imagine the following objection against my spec about Diggle being killed off, and I'd like to address it here:

 

Opponent: "Suppose Ra's really has Diggle killed by one of his ninjas shortly after his wedding with Lyla. Wouldn't this turn Oliver against Ra's? Oliver could never accept the offer of a man who is responsible for his best friend's death, couldn't he? Instead, Oliver would get entirely mad, he would fight against Ra's in order to avenge Diggle."

 

Me: "Right. This is a plausible scenario. But couldn't this be an alternative plot development towards the same result, namely Oliver's joining the League and becoming Ra's successor? It could all play out in the following way: Oliver is so fueled with rage, anger, hate and desperation (he has nothing to lose anymore, because he was stripped off everything that was meaningful to him) that all these emotions give him the strength and energy to fight and defeat Ra's - thereby (sort of by accident) turning himself into the new leader of the LoA, because whoever defeats the Demon's Head becomes the new one."

Edited February 28, 2015 by Kordi

[statsgirl]

All these speculations make me even less inclined to want to watch.  I have enough troubles in my own life.

 

I think if Diggle were to get killed, an in-character Oliver would be more likely to do a "scorched earth" on the LoA rather than join them.  But also think that Diggle/DR is too popular to kill

 

On the other hand, I worry about baby Sara.  If Akio in the flashbacks gets killed, they may want to parallel it with her and cause tragedy and break-up between Diggle and Lyla, thereby solidifying Oliver's beliefs about not being able to have happpiness in his life.

Not a lip reading, but I'm thinking since SA said something about wanting to hit Ray Palmer... Perhaps EBR alluded to the fact that Oliver in fact hits Palmer in an episode when they disagree.

Sure. He's already made Oliver stupid this season, let's turn this into a very bad romcom.
 

[Danny Franks]

Oh yeah, if Oliver hits Ray, you know it'll be because Oliver is being an ass and embarrassing himself. Ray will be in the right, and the writers will make sure Felicity sees it all, just to grind Oliver into the dirt that much more.

 

At this stage, it's probably easier to predict the tropes the writers won't use to make Oliver's life shittier. I really do think becoming Ra's Ollie Ghul is the best way out of the whole crappy situation. He should do it.