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Spoiler Discussion Thread


Morrigan2575
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Interesting discussion.

 

What makes a person sane or not in the world of Arrow. Would the Lazurus Pit only make someone insane? How do we know if it's insanity, psychosis, what have you? The Joker was a psychopath so what makes him different than Malcolm? I mean the Joker does some really psychotic things that are not dissimilar to Malcolm's earthquake machine. I mean what sane person would decide that was the way to clean up the Glades?

Psychosis is a full-blown break with reality, e.g., seeing people as evil aliens who must be stopped at all costs.  Psychopath is more perceiving reality more or less accurately, but just not caring.  Psychosis is the classic "insane."  Schizophrenia is kind of psychosis-lite, unless it goes all the way to psychosis during a psychotic break.  Malcolm has more of a personality disorder or four.  He's not "insane," in the classic sense.  

I find without Moira to play against I can't overlook the things about Malcolm that irritated me. So I really hope they kill him off dead dead. Not mostly dead or faking dead but head explodes off his body falls out of a helicopter splat onto the concrete, don't even give him a garbage bin to soften the impact dead.

If his storyline for the season was different I wouldn't mind his presence but like everyone else his story arc is a victim of the rise of Laurel Lance. But since he is already a mass murderer I honestly don't think he can be redeemed but I would allow a sacrifice himself for Thea type death.

I'm really hoping 3.14 gives me a reason to start watching again. I hope there is some nuance between the interaction of Slade and Oliver and now the mirakuru crazy has been out of his system for months there is more to Slade than Shado revenge (and I actually saw the pining for her during 2A).

I actually thought they would integrate Slade into the Suicide Squad. I really hope they don't kill him off especially since I was really hoping for Felicity/Slade interaction. Which *sigh* isn't possible in this episode.

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Just speculating... we know that in 3x15 (Nanda Parbat) Malcolm is captured by Ra's.  So let's say Oliver and Thea (because Oliver can't stop her) go to Nanda Parbat to try to save Malcolm (why? because plot).  Ra's learns the truth - that Malcolm drugged Thea to kill Sara, and he kills Malcolm.  Episode ends on cliffhanger as to the Queen siblings' fate.  Then in 3x16 (The Offer), Oliver offers his life to save Thea.  But Thea objects and offers her life to save Oliver.  Ra's then offers to let Oliver live if Thea will take Sara's place in the LOA.  (I can see him being more amenable to accepting young Thea into LOA training than Laurel.)  Oliver of course objects.  Then Thea gives a big speech about how he has always protected her but now it's her turn to protect him, and it's her choice.  (Sorry, I'm channeling the climactic River & Simon scene in Serenity.)  Ra's gives her one month to tie up her life in SC and return to Nanda Parbat.  Then Oliver & Thea are back in SC by 3x17 for Diggle & Lyla's wedding.

 

Incidentally, hadn't there been a spoiler about how Laurel would turn to Nyssa for help regarding her dilemma of lying to her father about Sara being alive?  But that never happened.  Laurel told her father the truth without Nyssa's help.

Edited by tv echo
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Why can't it be Laurel who stays behind in Nanda Parbat? (she whined).  I can see Thea fitting into the Arrow team more easily than I can see Laurel.  I'm dreading  having Laurel there every time there's a lair scene.

 

Ya know, with the promo pics released, I think it was really smart to release photos of present day with Slade, and pretty much all of the flash back pics have Tommy in them... 

 

Except for the part where there is only one photo of Diggle and none of Felicity.  I'll see the gag (as in joke) scenes on the internet with Diggle and Felicity, but the idea of Oliver/Thea/Slade on the island and Tommy/Laurel/Quentin/Thea holds no interest for me.

 

Oliver was really against Diggle in the first few episodes of S1 because of the type of person Diggle is.  Will they be able to tie that in to Oliver seeing him in the past?

 

Psychosis is a full-blown break with reality, e.g., seeing people as evil aliens who must be stopped at all costs.  Psychopath is more perceiving reality more or less accurately, but just not caring.  Psychosis is the classic "insane."  Schizophrenia is kind of psychosis-lite, unless it goes all the way to psychosis during a psychotic break.  Malcolm has more of a personality disorder or four.  He's not "insane," in the classic sense.  

I have to disagree that schizophrenia is "psychosis-lite" because even when they're not in a psychotic break, they still have to battle hearing voices all the time telling them often terrible things.  A psychotic break is what is usually termed "insane" but anyone with an axis I mental illness (schizophrenia, schizoaffective disorder, bipolar disorder etc.) has a life I don't envy.

 

If anything, MM has a personality disorder and those are very difficult to treat because the person doesn't see it as being anything wrong.  Malcolm thought that the way to clean up the crime in Starling City was to destroy The Glades and he's still sticking by it.

 

I have to disagree that schizophrenia is "psychosis-lite" because even when they're not in a psychotic break, they still have to battle hearing voices all the time telling them often terrible things.

Well yeah, but then when the voices, etc., become overwhelming and often visual, they have a full break.  Thus, psychosis-lite.  A "lite" version of psychosis is not exactly a trip to Barbados.  And no mental illness is fun or envy-inducing.  Otherwise it wouldn't really be an illness.

 

 

If anything, MM has a personality disorder and those are very difficult to treat because the person doesn't see it as being anything wrong.

Agreed.  Which is why I said he has a personality disorder or four.

Edited by AyChihuahua

SA said in one of his videos on his Facebook page, that an upcoming episode ends with Oliver on his knees in front of Ra's. Since episode 3x16 is called "The Offer", Ra's might make some kind of offer to Oliver, I have no idea what kind though...

 

Leading to Oliver being in jail, making room for Atom & FC to take over his city and his show.

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I'll play...MM is a narcissistic psychopath with a high Intelligence. While I guessed earlier that the game changer would be his death, I don't actually believe it. I want it to be true...but I don't think it will happen, especially since he's now the *reason* Olicity is not happening. I'd put it at 20% likely, mostly because JB is such a personal asset to the show and gains them so much free press and acclaim, especially amongst fandom crowds.

But I do feel like his arc has extended past the point of credulity or narrative meaning. How much more can they wring from his story without redeeming him? And because of his horrible crimes and psychopathy I'm not sure he is remotely redeemable. Thea's tolerance of him has made me dislike her character. Oliver's 'protection' of him at the end of the Magician made me throw things at my TV. I understand his recent decision to be trained by him but it's also barely tolerable.

I hope his getting killed in 315 is the game changer, but I doubt it happens. So like all of you, still at a loss and wondering if there's really a game changer at all!

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Based on the new spoilers I just posted, Quentin and Donna will have scenes together. I want Quentin and Donna to make out so bad............ :p 

 

I used to be against it because then Oliver/Felicity would be quasi sister swapping again. But I can't deny that Quentin needs a new start away from his shitty daughter and his crappy city and Donna can give that to him :'). 

 

Also:

 

tumblr_inline_njxxpbZDaA1rvyfar.png

Edited by wonderwall
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OK, here's the full, combined list of rejected 318 titles from Twitter/Tumblr:

 

Pact with the Devil

Palmer

Palpitations

Panacea

Pandemonium

Pandora

Panic Attack

Paralyzed

Paranoia

Parbat

Parenthood

Partners

Partnership

Paternity

Path

Pathetic

Pendulum

Penumbra

Perchance to Dream

Perspective

Phantom Stranger

Phoenix

Pinnacle of Truth

Pit of Lazarus

Pizza Para Poliver

Platinum

Platonic

Playing with Fire

Point Break

Point of Change

Post Crisis

Post Mortem

Posthumous

Pray for Olicity

Precious

Predator

Premonition

Present Time

Pressure

Pretty Bird

Priority of Life

Proof of Death

Proof of Life

Propaganda

Proposal

Punishment

Puppet Master

Puppeteer

Purgatory

Pursuit of Happiness

Pyromania

 

 

I just scrolled through his tumblr and here are the rejected guesses:

Pray for Olicity

parenthood

priority of life

proof of life

predator

platinum

paternity

platonic

palpitations

posthumous

proposal

post crisis

partnership

pizza para poliver

paralyzed

parbat

purgatory

playing with fire

post mortem

partners

pannic attack

punishment

penumbra

Thanks for doing the leg work!

 

I sent him Promises Broken via tumblr & twitter, but doubt he saw it or got it - havent seem him respond to it at all. So if Im right, at least Ill have said it here which will be enough for me. I doubt he'll ever reveal it any sooner than he needs too. He loves the attention he gets.

Based on the new spoilers I just posted, Quentin and Donna will have scenes together. I want Quentin and Donna to make out so bad............ :p 

 

I used to be against it because then Oliver/Felicity would be quasi sister swapping again. But I can't deny that Quentin needs a new start away from his shitty daughter and his crappy city and Donna can give that to him :'). 

 

Also:

 

tumblr_inline_njxxpbZDaA1rvyfar.png

 

I love knowing that since PB is a method actor you know he's spun out the whole possible romance in his mind.  :D

 

I did see that PB was doing press. I think Inside the Tube was looking for Qs.

Is he just doing one interview or is this some kind of a tour??  Cause, crap, he doesn't normally get to do tours, does he?  Suddenly I think they really are going to kill him.  I guess I'm going to cross my fingers and hope for the Lazarus Pit.

Seriously guys. What about Prisoner

Needs 12 letters to fit the blacked out space on the script, so I'd say too short. 

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This show has killed too many people so far, so I find it hard to believe that an "epic" "game changer" would be a death this season. Or at least a death that stays permanent. It might be like S1 where they kill MM & bring him back later in the seasons. Personally, I think that there is more likely a resurrection plot coming than a redemption plot.

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I love knowing that since PB is a method actor you know he's spun out the whole possible romance in his mind.  :D

 

Is he just doing one interview or is this some kind of a tour??  Cause, crap, he doesn't normally get to do tours, does he?  Suddenly I think they really are going to kill him.  I guess I'm going to cross my fingers and hope for the Lazarus Pit.

Needs 12 letters to fit the blacked out space on the script, so I'd say too short.

at least 2, GATV and Inside the Tube...probably a conference call.

He's done press before, Upfronts 2014, SDCC 2014 and he did press twice last year once for 203 and once laterin the season, don't remember which episode.

I have a feeling Cisco and Joe in SS is connected to their current Flash storyline, last week they were looking into the murder of Barry's mom and found some evidence that Barry and the reverse flash were there that night, tonight Joe told Barry about their findings. In both episodes it was heavily implied that Joe suspects Wells to be somehow involved (due to some past investigation he did on Wells and cop intuition i suppose). Also tonight we got to see Wells in the yellow suit.

So I think it may be connected to that. It will be interesting to see what it is.

I can't figure out how to link it, but MG just retweeted a producer's preview of The Return - and yeah, Oliver definitely didn't let Slade out, haha. And he definitely seems horrified when he realizes he's on the loose. Which makes me wonder what exactly he thought Malcolm was playing at when he sent him and Thea to Lian Yu? Oh Oliver, forever the dumbass. 

Edited by apinknightmare
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I deserve the right to change my mind about this tomorrow, but I'm actually really excited for this episode. It looks more interesting to me then the other flashback episodes at least.

 

Me too! I really hope the 'internet breaking' scene MG was talking about regarding Felicity is her punching Malcolm in the face. That would be SO SATISFYING. 

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Me too! I really hope the 'internet breaking' scene MG was talking about regarding Felicity is her punching Malcolm in the face. That would be SO SATISFYING.

My god Felicity punching Malcolm would be awesome! Since MG lives to piss people off she probably coins "Black Canary" or something he thinks is oh so clever

It's here on his twitter

 

https://twitter.com/mguggenheim

 

Or here

https://amp.twimg.com/v/1cfcc251-2a33-4ea6-aa2f-837380fec787

 

If this is supposed to be "a love letter to the fans", I think I'd prefer hate mail.

For real a "love letter to the fans" would be Orginal Team Arrow on the island dealing with Slade. We could get a Slade/Diggle fight. Slade terrorising Felicity(For Drama), with Oliver saving her OR her getting the drop on Slade again

I deserve the right to change my mind about this tomorrow, but I'm actually really excited for this episode. It looks more interesting to me then the other flashback episodes at least.

 

Me too. Lets see: Oliver centeric epe, no TA bitching at Oliver, Hopefully not alot of Fakanary, NO Ray, REAL conversations with the only woman these days who seems to care about HIM unconditionally, Slade....sounds like a good one!

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