Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Velocity23]

Awww Felicity in the sneak peak with Diggle.

Felicity: "You think I'm in denial"

[Danny Franks]

“Ray gets accused of being a stalker, or having a stalkerish mentality, but I just see that he’s a smart businessman and he’s going after the best brain in the room and the best brain around that he knows,” the actor defends. “It’s not like he’s sexually threatening Felicity at the beginning of his search. He wants the best brain to help him achieve his goal, which is to save the city. Those are all good intentions, and it’s only in episode seven [“Draw Back Your Bow”] when they have the kiss where he goes, ‘Oh wow, it’s more than this,’ because he was fooling himself about it.”

 

 

Not much more to say about that phrasing, is there? This is why he's seen as a stalker, Brandon. The amount of, 'oh it's okay that he monitors her every move and knows where she is at all times, because it comes from a place of good' defending is staggering, with this character. Next it'll be, 'yeah, he locked her up in his penthouse for a whole week, and didn't let anyone know where she was, but he was just keeping her safe!'.

 

Oh, and it's already nailed on that he'll be 'accidentally' walking in on Felicity while she's emotional and vulnerable after she discovers Oliver's dead. Because that's how you 'organically' build a relationship between two people, right?

[Guest]

I refuse to read anything Ray related. No thanks. But that sneak peek! A Felicity and Diggle scene? Is this…is this real life? 

Edited January 19, 2015 by Guest

[apinknightmare]

That sneak peek, ah. I love how gently Digg talks to her, JUST RIP MY HEART OUT, SHOW.

 

Also, I'm going to laugh so hard if that "I don't want to be a woman you love" isn't Felicity to Oliver, since so many people have been trying to figure it out. I don't see it being from Felicity to Ray, because technically it's way too soon to be talking love, unless it's a hypothetical statement regarding them getting involved. I thought maybe it could be Laurel to Oliver with regards to his objection to her being BC (Oliver referred to Sara as a woman he loved when he was talking to Barry), but I think since they had Oliver tell Felicity he loved her that if he voiced an objection to Laurel doing what she's doing he would tell her it was because he cared about her, and keep the "L" word out of it. Then again maybe it could be Thea to Malcolm, since he tends to do batshit crazy things for the women he "loves." 

 

I'm sure it's from Felicity to Oliver in some way, but I'm really interested to see how it plays out.

Edited January 19, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Guest]

That sneak peek, ah. I love how gently Digg talks to her, JUST RIP MY HEART OUT, SHOW.

 

Also, I'm going to laugh so hard if that "I don't want to be a woman you love" isn't Felicity to Oliver, since so many people have been trying to figure it out. I don't see it being from Felicity to Ray, because technically it's way too soon to be talking love, unless it's a hypothetical statement regarding them getting involved. I thought maybe it could be Laurel to Oliver with regards to his objection to her being BC (Oliver referred to Sara as a woman he loved when he was talking to Barry), but I think since they had Oliver tell Felicity he loved her that if he voiced an objection to Laurel doing what she's doing he would tell her it was because he cared about her, and keep the "L" word out of it. Then again maybe it could be Thea to Malcolm, since he tends to do batshit crazy things for the women he "loves." ted

 

I'm sure it's from Felicity to Oliver in some way, but I'm really interested to see how it plays out.

 

I want/NEED more Felicity/Diggle. Both Oliver and Diggle always speak so softly to her, it gets me right in the heart. 

 

Also lol, it seems obvious that the line of dialog is Felicity to Oliver but then I'm like 'maybe that's what they want us to think? Maybe it's too obvious?!' But then I go back on myself and feel like it's all a fake misdirect and aaaaah. I just want to know already!

Edited January 19, 2015 by Guest

[Velocity23]

What did i do ... to deserve this

 

If only because the former is poised to join the costumed brigade, as the new Canary? “I would say they’re definitely friendly,” Guggenheim answers. “Are they on their way toward becoming friends? We’ll see what’s organic and feels right. Part of the fun of watching these two characters interact right now is they don’t have this background of friendship to fall back on. All they really have is this common denominator in Oliver, and in Oliver’s crusade. So watching that relationship slowly unfold and build naturally — with all of its awkwardness, where Felicity’s like, “Am I out of line by saying this? Am I out of line by saying that?” — is really fun and interesting, especially to watch Emily [bett Rickards] play it because she always brings such  an authenticity to those sorts of moments.”

[Carrie Ann]

Stephen's Collider interview was obviously just a part of that post-TCA panel "scrum" that was already reported in many places, but this wording was a little different than what I'd read before, and it set my teeth on edge:

 

And when we give other characters on the show an opportunity to acquit themselves and to come more into leading roles. We’re 50-plus episodes into the show, and if we don’t give other characters an opportunity to shoulder the load, then we give nothing for the viewers to attach themselves to. So, I’m excited for everyone’s opportunity.

 

It's that "leading roles" part that makes me itch. This is a show with one lead, which is, you know, a pretty common and winning formula in the history of storytelling. I certainly don't want this to be a co-lead show with BC/Arrow, and I don't think anyone who started watching it thought that's where it was going. If they planned for that, why did they name it Arrow? Why not name it "Starling City" or something, if it wasn't intended to be about Oliver primarily?

 

Second part that's bugging me about this comment is "if we don't give other characters an opportunity to shoulder the load, then we give nothing for the viewers to attach themselves to." Uhhhh...first, I've been sort of attached to Oliver's story all this time? And also, I've been attached to Diggle, Felicity, Moira, Sara, Thea, even Roy this season. I don't need any of those characters to be at the center of the show in order to be attached to them and to the story. Guess I'm just doing it wrong, somehow.

Edited January 19, 2015 by Carrie Ann

[statsgirl]

 

“It’s not like he’s sexually threatening Felicity at the beginning of his search.

Because stalking is only about the sexual. Except that it's not.

 

Brandon Routh: "Felicity is pretty tight-lipped, she doesn't really explain to Oliver what's going on with her, she speaks in very broad strokes but she's having some emotional time and Ray is there for her to a degree and they understand each other on a deeper level instead of just science geeky things".

 

Does he mean she doesn't really explain to Ray?  Or that she doesn't explain to Oliver why she's upset?

 

I also thought Anna was his fiance but I guess BR thinks she was Ray's wife.  On the whole, I would prefer wife, it sticks more and less likely to allow him grief sex for Felicity's sake..

 

Things will turn 360  There will be relationships that will shock people,  alliances that will shock people,  break-ups that will shock people

Is John Barrowman any better at math than Stephen Amell is? Because when you go 360 degrees, you end up at the same place you started from. I do not think that means what he thinks it means.

 

I agree with Stephen Amell that Oliver 'dying' "creates a much needed change in the dynamic for the show"  and that after 50 episodes if you don't change things up it isn't so interesting any more.  (My beef with the 500th episode of NCIS that is exactly the same.)    

 

 

I honestly wish they set up the Ray-Felicity relationship up as just a friendship. If Ray had a wife perhaps Felicity would have someone else to interact with.

This is something that really works in Agent Carter, the Peggy/Jarvis relationship.  Tons of chemistry between them but Jarvis loves his wife (with the not-Hungarian accent)..

 

Looks like the last (most significant?) promo is from Katie Cassidy.  Of course.  

I just wish they would stop trying to make Laurel/Felicity happen, even "organically". There's nothing organic about them becoming friends.

 

 

Awww Felicity in the sneak peak with Diggle.

Felicity: "You think I'm in denial"

True love.  She thinks she would know it if he were dead.

[apinknightmare]

I want/NEED more Felicity/Diggle. Both Oliver and Diggle always speak so softly to her, it gets me right in the heart. 

 

Also lol, it seems obvious that the line of dialog is Felicity to Oliver but then I'm like 'maybe that's what they want us to think? Maybe it's too obvious?!' But then I go back on myself and feel like it's all a fake misdirect and aaaaah. I just want to know already!

 

So, the TV Line interview posted in Spoilers Only makes me think it very well could be Felicity to Ray, the way that their "bonding" or whatever comes about in Oliver's absence. Since she's trying to right what she considers a wrong where Ray's concerned, I can see her saying "I don't want to be a woman you love," or something, to steer him away from a romantic entanglement with her. 

 

But it probably is Felicity to Oliver, haha. 

[wingster55]

There's nothing organic about them becoming friends.

 

I would disagree...I think it's more organic than Felicity and Thea which thankfully was scrapped. 

[Guest]

I have no issue with Felicity and Laurel stumbling through to friendship and being friendly and awkward. I'd rather that than Insta-friends. 

 

Stephen's Collider interview was obviously just a part of that post-TCA panel "scrum" that was already reported in many places, but this wording was a little different than what I'd read before, and it set my teeth on edge:

 

 

It's that "leading roles" part that makes me itch. This is a show with one lead, which is, you know, a pretty common and winning formula in the history of storytelling. I certainly don't want this to be a co-lead show with BC/Arrow, and I don't think anyone who started watching it thought that's where it was going. If they planned for that, why did they name it Arrow? Why not name it "Starling City" or something, if it wasn't intended to be about Oliver primarily?

 

Second part that's bugging me about this comment is "if we don't give other characters an opportunity to shoulder the load, then we give nothing for the viewers to attach themselves to." Uhhhh...first, I've been sort of attached to Oliver's story all this time? And also, I've been attached to Diggle, Felicity, Moira, Sara, Thea, even Roy this season. I don't need any of those characters to be at the center of the show in order to be attached to them and to the story. Guess I'm just doing it wrong, somehow.

 

 

Bless him, he's trying to sell something that makes no sense. It would be fine if the show wasn't called Arrow, if it didn't start with his story, his narration. But the show is about Oliver - has always been about Oliver - and so trying to tell us that other characters will shoulder some of the lead is just pointless and frustrating. And like you said, I'm already attached to certain characters and I'm here for their story but the lead always has been and always should be Oliver Queen. I wish they wouldn't insult our intelligence. The only reason they're doing this is because they couldn't find another organic way to make Laurel BC. Cut the crap already. 

 

So, the TV Line interview posted in Spoilers Only makes me think it very well could be Felicity to Ray, the way that their "bonding" or whatever comes about in Oliver's absence. Since she's trying to right what she considers a wrong where Ray's concerned, I can see her saying "I don't want to be a woman you love," or something, to steer him away from a romantic entanglement with her. 

 

But it probably is Felicity to Oliver, haha. 

 

Hmm. I can buy her saying that. Oliver's 'I love you' has repercussions for her because she probably thinks that being someone's 'love' means they always leave. I can see why she might think that way, especially after her father leaving and then Cooper's fake death. I'd certainly prefer that because I really don't want any romantic Ray/Felicity, I'm hanging on by a thread with those two as it is.

 

Also, am I the only one who thinks it's a really awkward unnatural piece of dialog? I just can't see anyone saying that. It's weird.

Edited January 19, 2015 by Guest

[apinknightmare]

Does he mean she doesn't really explain to Ray?  Or that she doesn't explain to Oliver why she's upset?

 

I think he means that she doesn't explain to Ray why she's upset (he said as much in a previous interview).

 

 

 

Is John Barrowman any better at math than Stephen Amell is? Because when you go 360 degrees, you end up at the same place you started from. I do not think that means what he thinks it means.

 

Haha, i thought the same thing. We should ask him if he knows the multiples of three!

 

 

 

I agree with Stephen Amell that Oliver 'dying' "creates a much needed change in the dynamic for the show"  and that after 50 episodes if you don't change things up it isn't so interesting any more.  (My beef with the 500th episode of NCIS that is exactly the same.)  

 

Yeah, i don't mind the changing things up aspect so much, especially if it leads Oliver to a better place personally at the end of the season. My concern is just that I signed on for a show about Oliver, and to a lesser extent Team Arrow (I almost bowed out several times before things gelled between them), and not all these other randos. I would hate for the show to completely shift focus for good. I'm hoping it shifts for these three-ish episodes to put some things in motion and then goes back to somewhat normal.

 

 

True love.  She thinks she would know it if he were dead.

 

And she doesn't feel it, because he's not. Ugh, someone hold me.

[apinknightmare]

I would disagree...I think it's more organic than Felicity and Thea which thankfully was scrapped. 

 

The spoiler was that they'd share scenes together, not that they'd be friends. And it wasn't necessarily scrapped, just pushed back. 

 

I have no issue with Felicity and Laurel stumbling through to friendship and being friendly and awkward. I'd rather that than Insta-friends. 

 

Same. I said it before when the spoilers came out that she'd be in the foundry more. I'd rather they be friendly than not, and if it's in some kind of awkward getting-to-know-you kind of thing, I'm okay with it. Like it or not, they're going to be working together sometimes, so they might as well be on good terms. If not, it would be assumed that the awkwardness was due to some unresolved Oliver feels, and I really, really do not want that. 

 

 

 

Hmm. I can buy her saying that. Oliver's 'I love you' has repercussions for her because she probably thinks that being someone's 'love' means they always leave. I can see why she might think that way, especially after her father leaving and then Cooper's fake death. I'd certainly prefer that because I really don't want any romantic Ray/Felicity, I'm hanging on by a thread with those two as it is.

 

Also, am I the only one who thinks it's a really awkward unnatural piece of dialog? I just can't see anyone saying that. It's weird.

 

It is a really awkward piece of dialogue. Seems so...I don't know, because of the "a woman." Maybe it is Felicity to Oliver, pointing out that in the time she's known him he's been with quite a few woman and while he's claiming to love her, she's the only one he won't make an effort to be with? I don't know. Guess we'll find out soon enough. 

[Danny Franks]

Is John Barrowman any better at math than Stephen Amell is? Because when you go 360 degrees, you end up at the same place you started from. I do not think that means what he thinks it means.

 

Or it's exactly what he means, and in a roundabout way he's saying that, despite all the maneuvering and character wrangling, everyone ends up in the same place at the end of it.

 

This is something that really works in Agent Carter, the Peggy/Jarvis relationship.  Tons of chemistry between them but Jarvis loves his wife (with the not-Hungarian accent)..

 

 

Or his wife is actually a recording/robot/Howard in disguise/a figment of his imagination, depending on what shade of tinfoil you've got on your head. I think the chemistry between Peggy/Jarvis and Felicity/Diggle definitely has some similarities, in that it feels distinctly sibling-like, between characters who seem to have very little in common beyond what has thrown them together.

[catrox14]

I cannot stand the idea that Felicity and Laurel become friends by bonding over their feelings for Oliver or that they are both on board with Oliver's mission.

 

Gods. Laurel never gave a shit about Oliver's mission when she was trying to put the Vigilante in jail, and then became enamored with the Hood and then decided when it was revealed Oliver was the Arrow that she really somehow always knew it all along. It's too late for me to accept her as being so mission oriented and having a love of justice. It's just contrived beyond all reason.

 

NO NO NONO. DO NOT WANT.   

 

Ugh. Fuck that. Sorry but that is just so clearly Felicity propping Laurel.   Grrr....

[statsgirl]

I think Laurel/Joanna was organic, they're both equals, tough women in a tough profession.

I think Felicity/Sara was organic, they were both caring women who accept another person as valuable no matter how hurt.

 

I wouldn't say Felicity/Thea would be organic in a buddy/buddy kind of way, more like they both care about the same men (Oliver and Roy) and aren't possessive of them in the way Laurel is of Oliver.  Thea makes sense as a friend of Sin, they were of the same age and both tough cookies.

 

So after forming these great friendships for the women, the show just blows them all up.  The only female friendship left that makes sense is Felicity/Caitlin.

 

I can see Felicity and Laurel learning to work with each other, I can't imagine them at girls night doing manicures and hair treatments for each other.

 

 

MG: So watching that relationship slowly unfold and build naturally — with all of its awkwardness, where Felicity’s like, “Am I out of line by saying this? Am I out of line by saying that?” — is really fun and interesting,

Part of the problem is the apparent power imbalance.  Can you see Laurel ever saying, much less to Felicity "Am I out of line by saying this? Am I out of line by saying that?”

 

I'm happy to know that Diggle and Felicity become the leaders of Team Arrow. That's organic.

. “The relationship between Oliver’s death and Ray’s journey really lies in Felicity,” says the EP. “Felicity is of the opinion that Oliver went off to have a duel to the death with the most dangerous man in the world… basically, a suicide mission. And here she finds, contemporaneous with Oliver’s death, Ray embarking on his own suicide mission. In [Episode] 9, she said, ‘Why does this keep happening to me?’ and Ray represents an opportunity for her to try to fix what she considers a mistake that Oliver made, to prevent him from also tempting fate. Whether or not she’s successful, that’s part of these upcoming episodes.”

It sounds like Felicity is finally going to have some agency in her story, even if it is about the men in her life.  Is she going to try to save Ray from Oliver's fate?  Maybe this is where 'a woman you love' comes in, whether it's to Oliver or to Ray.

 

 

Or it's exactly what he means, and in a roundabout way he's saying that, despite all the maneuvering and character wrangling, everyone ends up in the same place at the end of it.

So at the end of the season, Oliver will be at odds with both Malcolm and Ra's again?

Edited January 19, 2015 by statsgirl

[Starfish35]

This kind of reminds me of the "you'll always be my girl" bit of dialogue that was teased last year, and all the discussions we had about that.

[apinknightmare]

I can see Felicity and Laurel learning to work with each other, I can't imagine them at girls night doing manicures and hair treatments for each other.

 

Part of the problem is the apparent power imbalance.  Can you see Laurel ever saying, much less to Felicity "m I out of line by saying this? Am I out of line by saying that?”

 

Yeah, I can see them being friendly. Friends? I don't know. Maybe at some point down the line.

 

And I can't imagine any scenario in which Felicity wonders if something is okay to say to Laurel. Does MG mean personally? Like about her relationship with Oliver or pointing out that she didn't know him all that well? Or does he mean with regards to vigilante business, because Felicity's been at it way longer? 

We had discussed that "I don't see that changing" quote from SA with regards to Felicity being the only woman in his life. Here's the extended quote from his Collider interview:

 

 

 

The last thought he had was of Felicity, which is really telling.  Can you talk about how their relationship has come to that point, where she is so important to him?

AMELL:  Both Laurel and Sara were elements of his past.  Obviously, Sara and Oliver tried to rekindle things.  But, both of those relationships really rely heavily upon the type of person that he was before he left.  As he has become more accepting, less introverted and less damaged by what happened to him the five years that he was away, the guiding principle in that transformation has been Felicity.

 

Did you always know that relationship was going to go that way?

AMELL:  No, and neither did the producers, by the way.  But, those things happen, along the way.  With Emily and I, our characters worked well together and, as a result, that’s the direction that we took.  Before this season, when I said, “There is one woman in Oliver’s life this year, and that is Felicity,” I don’t see that changing.

[catrox14]

I just don't see why all the females have to be friends. That is as unrealistic  as women never being friends. 

 

Laurel has always been pretty crappy to Felicity. She's side-eyed her and been rude. Felicity has always been disrespected by Laurel IMO

 

So now because Laurel has essentially forced her way onto Team Arrow, Felicity just has to be friends with her on any level? They can be colleagues that work together and are not terrible to each other.

 

I would rather see Felicity call out Laurel for her stupid shenanigans and lies. Felicity is a straight shooter and is awkward and it seems to me she should have some issues with how Laurel has gone about all this stuff by the time Laurel gets into the Arrow Cave. 

[Guest]

Yeah, look, it'd be weird if Laurel and Felicity were instant friends and it would also be weird if they didn't acknowledge the awkwardness of their new dynamic. They're going to be thrown together without Oliver there, who was always the person Laurel spoke to first. Without him, they have to get along, or at least try to work together. I get it. As long as they don't have any discussions about Oliver in any romantic sense, I can deal with them becoming friendly. Slowly. Don't make them friends as quickly as Laurel threw on her dead sister's mask because I will laugh and laugh. 

 

I'm intrigued by the idea that Felicity wants to save Ray from making the same mistake as Oliver. I can understand that. I don't buy this 'deeper connection' that they're trying to sell between them but whatever. Just because they both talk stupidly fast and are clever doesn't mean they have a connection. I haven't seen it either. But what happens when Oliver returns home? Sounds like that's just her mindset for the next couple of episodes and I don't like what could come after that. Ugh.

[Chiny11]

Wow... The more I read, the less desire I have to watch. :)

Edited January 19, 2015 by Chiny11

[Belinea]

I don't know...I think they would like them to be friends but are somewhat careful with it and don't want people to immediately be against it. Therefore they are approaching it carefully. If people get used to it, they'll do more. I don't care one way or the other. I will wait and see how much chemistry KC has with the rest of the team because so far she didn't click on screen with the team for me.

 

Wasn't there a spoiler (or a tweet) that MG gave. Someone basically told him that it is not really clever to have one guy die only for his love interest to hook up with the other guy until the dead guy returns. (I cannot seem to find it or remember the actual wording) He said something along the lines of: "Good thing we are not doing it."

 

I don't know...I am just not interested in Ray. Even though they give him a proper origin story. (They actually show him trying to build his Iron Man Suite) I just find him boring. I could rant all day about how Laurel doesn't deserve her title but with Ray I can't even bring myself to care. He is just very bland to me and I just don't see his superb chemistry with EBR. Girl has more chemistry with Diggle than with Ray. 

[looptab]

I think Felicity would ask if she is out of line while talking with Laurel in a scenario like, maybe she is giving her some advice and hard truth about what it really means to lead this life - that she's been in for 2 years- and then pauses and asks herself if she should really say those things to Laurel since they don't know each other that well. In a "maybe I should just mind my business, her life her choice" kind of way.

 

I don't see what Felicity trying to stop Ray has to do with "I don't want to be a woman you love"? I took that bit of interview as her wanting to stop him from suiting up.

 

Also, it's true that it's already kinda there in the narrative, but please do not make Felicity the Peyton Sawyer of Arrow. Please. #PeopleAlwaysLeave

Edited January 19, 2015 by looptab

[Velocity23]

Isnt That Laurels line? Why does everybody leave me?

[looptab]

Isnt That Laurels line? Why does everybody leave me?

Haha true. So it would be even worse going down that road again with Felicity. But her story supports it, so...IDK. I'm conflicted about this lol.

[apinknightmare]

I don't see what Felicity trying to stop Ray has to do with "I don't want to be a woman you love"? I took that bit of interview as her wanting to stop him from suiting up.

 

Him putting the suit on doesn't have anything to do with it. The article mentioned Felicity wanting to fix a mistake that she thought Oliver made by going out and fighting Ra's and I thought an extension of that might be her telling Ray that she doesn't want to be a woman that he loves (It might be a mistake that she thought SHE made in getting involved in the vigilante business - falling for the vigilante). Not that I think she regrets loving Oliver, just that it might be a way to steel herself against future heartbreak, because I think it's pretty likely that she's going to help Ray in his superheroing. 

 

I don't think it's likely that she says it to Ray, I just think it's a possibility.

Edited January 19, 2015 by apinknightmare

[catrox14]

Felicity is polite and kind but she doesn't need to be deferrential to Laurel in any way, shape or form.  The Lair o Arrow is Felicity's domain, not Laurel's. Felicity doesn't need Laurel's anything at all to carry on as a founding member of Team Arrow.  Felicity has a status all of her own that has quite literally nothing to do with Laurel.  If anything Laurel needs to be the one that works the hardest to prove her worth and her value to Felicity's universe. Laurel doesn't get to be friends with Felicity just because she has a mask now. That's BS. 

[looptab]

Him putting the suit on doesn't have anything to do with it. The article mentioned Felicity wanting to fix a mistake that she thought Oliver made by going out and fighting Ra's and I thought an extension of that might be her telling Ray that she doesn't want to be a woman that he loves (It might be a mistake that she thought SHE made in getting involved in the vigilante business - falling for the vigilante). Not that I think she regrets loving Oliver, just that it might be a way to steel herself against future heartbreak, because I think it's pretty likely that she's going to help Ray in his superheroing. 

 

I don't think it's likely that she says it to Ray, I just think it's a possibility.

 

 I see what you mean, but how would saying that be helpful in preventing Ray from fighting crime? In stopping herself from getting involved with another crazy guy, sure, but it'd seem an odd sentence in that context. 

 

WRT Thea, the more I think about it, the more I want her to find out about Oliver in the episode with Slade. I don't know why, I just do :)

[apinknightmare]

Felicity is polite and kind but she doesn't need to be deferrential to Laurel in any way, shape or form.  The Lair o Arrow is Felicity's domain, not Laurel's. Felicity doesn't need Laurel's anything at all to carry on as a founding member of Team Arrow.  Felicity has a status all of her own that has quite literally nothing to do with Laurel.  If anything Laurel needs to be the one that works the hardest to prove her worth and her value to Felicity's universe. Laurel doesn't get to be friends with Felicity just because she has a mask now. That's BS. 

 

MG said in that interview that they were friendly, not friends, and that it is awkward between them. And the way he phrased the answer makes it seem like they still might not be friends. 

 I see what you mean, but how would saying that be helpful in preventing Ray from fighting crime? In stopping herself from getting involved with another crazy guy, sure, but it'd seem an odd sentence in that context. 

 

It wouldn't prevent him from fighting crime. 

 

I wasn't tying the two together like that. I thought that IF Felicity were to say it to Ray, that it could be in the context of some kind of conversation about getting involved romantically or growing feelings or whatever, after she's decided to help him. Because I'm 99.9% sure she's going to help him with his crusade. And a way to distance herself from getting hurt with Ray like she got hurt with Oliver would be to tell him that she didn't want to be a woman he loves or someone who loves him. 

 

It's kind of an odd sentence in any context really, that's why I was just floating possibilities, which is all this is. 

[blixie]

This Guggenheim tumblr campaign/spoiler extravaganza to make me forget how much these next 4 episodes are gonna suck, is failing. I still don't care bub.

[looptab]

@apinknightmare Oh, ok, I thought you were saying those two conversations could happen in the same context, i.e. she tries to stop him from vigilanting, then drops the "I don't want to be etc etc". That's why I couldn't understand lol

 

It's kind of an odd sentence in any context really, that's why I was just floating possibilities, which is all this is. 

Of course. I hope you didn't think I was criticizing you in some way, I was just trying to better get what you meant :)

Edited January 19, 2015 by looptab

[AyChihuahua]

 

This Guggenheim tumblr campaign/spoiler extravaganza to make me forget how much these next 4 episodes are gonna suck, is failing. I still don't care bub.

I care less than I did before.  Now I don't know whether I'll even start watching again when Oliver's back.  

[apinknightmare]

@apinknightmare Oh, ok, I thought you were saying those two conversations could happen in the same context, i.e. she tries to stop him from vigilanting, then drops the "I don't want to be etc etc". That's why I couldn't understand lol

Of course. I hope you didn't think I was criticizing you in some way, I was just trying to better get what you meant :)

 

Nope, I realized I probably wasn't being very clear! :)

[catrox14]

 

MG said in that interview that they were friendly, not friends, and that it is awkward between them. And the way he phrased the answer makes it seem like they still might not be friends.

 

 

I understand that is what MG is saying. I am saying that I don't think they even need to be friendly...and certainly not from Felicity's side of things.  Laurel should be the one doing all the work here. IMO MMV

[SonofaBiscuit]

I was thinking this weekend.  You know how people catch up on threads and you'll get a "like" from an episode that aired back in October?  I feel kind of bad for the people catching up on the Arrow threads (especially The Calm and Sara).  I was quite rage-y earlier this season, so if you're reading those old threads, I do apologize!  I'm at the point now, though, where I'm just exhausted with this show.  I don't really care about any of the stuff that MG has been aggressively pushing in the media lately, and the only thing that I'm really looking forward to on Wednesday is reading episode reviews as soon as Left Behind is over with.  I'll catch any of the good stuff (??) on Tumblr.  

[statsgirl]

I really like that interpretation of "I don't want to be a woman you love" -- Felicity to Ray helping him suit up because women who love and are loved by superheroes always get hurt.

 

I'd feel more secure in it though if the line weren't in 312, the episode Oliver comes back.

 

I think Felicity would ask if she is out of line while talking with Laurel in a scenario like, maybe she is giving her some advice and hard truth about what it really means to lead this life - that she's been in for 2 years- and then pauses and asks herself if she should really say those things to Laurel since they don't know each other that well. In a "maybe I should just mind my business, her life her choice" kind of way.

 

That is about the only way I could tolerate Felicity thinking Should I be telling Laurel this?  It should be the other way around, Laurel wondering if it's okay to say something to Felicity because Felicity has been closer to Oliver since he got back and has been working with him for two years now. 

[Password]

I'm intrigued by the idea that Felicity wants to save Ray from making the same mistake as Oliver. I can understand that...But what happens when Oliver returns home? Sounds like that's just her mindset for the next couple of episodes and I don't like what could come after that. Ugh.

This is pretty much where I am. When Oliver returns, what happens? Is it like a 3 or 4 episode arc? It would be interesting if she completely shuts Ray down emotionally whilst trying to "save" him, but then she gets really buggered when Oliver returns.

It's kind of like Diggle trying to save his brother through Oliver. A do-over, but where does that leave her emotionally because she worked with Oliver but was also in love with him. If we're doing do-overs is love necessary? Can she be Ray's protector without her feelings getting involved? We hope...

Re Felicity and Laurel: I can't really see Laurel as insecure about what she can say to Felicity in regards to Oliver, or have we forgotten she knows him in her bones? Laurel has been very confident of her knowledge about Oliver so I'd be surprised if she wasn't arrogant at first, then slowly came to the understanding that no, she really DIDN'T know Oliver.

Edited January 19, 2015 by Limbo

[statsgirl]

I don't think Diggle's is a do-over.  David Ramsey has been saying since season 1 that Diggle thinks of Oliver as the brother he can save whereas he couldn't save Andy.  What should make it even worse is that Diggle has seen himself as the one protecting Oliver from the beginning because he signed on to keep Oliver sane in his war, and now he's failed.  (Not really because Oliver refused to take him but he should be beating himself up for letting Oliver go just as Felicity should.)

 

I'd like to see some Diggle/Lyla scenes about this since she may have known Andy, she knows how Digg feels, and she's been a soldier herself.

 

Is Felicity going to be telling both Laurel and Ray "Look, this is what it's really like to be a vigilante." 

[ban1o]

Lol the comic preview was pretty funny
 

Edited January 20, 2015 by ban1o

[Password]

What's the difference between a do-over, and the brother he can save?

Just curious, perhaps my understanding is different.

[statsgirl]

I think of a do-over more as something we've seen on screen but done differently with another, less important character.  Diggle seeing Oliver as a brother he can save was the reason he signed on for the crusade in the first place.  I think it's fundamental to their relationship whereas it may not have been with John's relationship with Andy..  (Although that may be what you mean by do-over.)

 

Do we know if Andy was older or younger than John?

[Password]

I meant Oliver was a way for Diggle to save the brother he couldn't. Diggle could try to change the outcome of Oliver's life whereas Andy was out of his hands.

I always get the feeling he was younger. Older siblings always feel responsible for their younger family.

[catrox14]

[snip]Older siblings always feel responsible for their younger family.

 

My older siblings never got that memo. LOL.   I think Diggle is just that kind of protective guy regardless of his siblings age.

[statsgirl]

I got the feeling that Andy was younger but that was mostly because Carly seemed so young.  (I don't know how old Christy Lang is but I was suprised to see she plays Maid Marian on OUaT.)

 

Usually older siblings are more protective but Birth Order Theory has an exception when the oldest is more immature, the second place sibling may take on the characteristics of the eldest.

 

I can see Diggle being protective of his troop in the military.  He certainly was of the members of the SS when he found out that Waller had planted blow-up tech in their heads.  I wonder how he'll deal with that the next time he runs the squad.

[wonderwall]

So judging by the Asia Promo, it looks like Lawyer!Laurel is still a thing (internally groans)... maybe she'll get disillusioned by the law in the next 3 episodes? Not really looking forward to that because they always manage to make Laurel look like an idiot when she's a lawyer :p That crack about perjury still hurts me because MG is a lawyer. And he's supposed to know what perjury actually is. 

 

ALSO, another new clip of Felicity on the phone at QC... emm Palmer Industries. It looks like she's about to have a huge breakdown :( God, I can't wait for that. I hope Emily does the scenes justice because her emotional ones can be a hit or a miss (like at Moira's funeral)

[apinknightmare]

No, Laurel's already disillusioned with the law, remember? In Corto Maltese she suddenly realized that domestic abuse victims slip through the cracks in the justice system (even though she had to have helped tens/hundreds of them at CNRI, but whateves). And yeah, that scene at the elevator. Chances that Ray's in the elevator when the doors open up or he magically pops up behind? Smoak detector!!!!

[wonderwall]

No, Laurel's already disillusioned with the law, remember? In Corto Maltese she suddenly realized that domestic abuse victims slip through the cracks in the justice system (even though she had to have helped tens/hundreds of them at CNRI, but whateves). And yeah, that scene at the elevator. Chances that Ray's in the elevator when the doors open up or he magically pops up behind? Smoak detector!!!!

Is it bad that I'm still not buying her disillusionment to the law? Because I feel like the show needs to make it a running occurrence where Laurel's frustrated by how the Law doesn't stop every criminal. And is it bad that I keep on thinking about logistics when it comes to Laurel? Like how in the world does Laurel have time to be a good lawyer (winning cases) and train and go out and fight crime and spend time with Quentin/ have personal time? 

 

While I can buy Felicity doing her job at Palmer Tech and working at the Arrow cave (because it's clear she takes a lot of sick days and people notice), I can't see Laurel doing her job and training without failing or doing a half ass job at one thing... Like Ron Swanson once said, never half ass two things, whole ass one. 

[apinknightmare]

Is it bad that I'm still not buying her disillusionment to the law? Because I feel like the show needs to make it a running occurrence where Laurel's frustrated by how the Law doesn't stop every criminal. And is it bad that I keep on thinking about logistics when it comes to Laurel? Like how in the world does Laurel have time to be a good lawyer (winning cases) and train and go out and fight crime and spend time with Quentin/ have personal time? 

 

While I can buy Felicity doing her job at Palmer Tech and working at the Arrow cave (because it's clear she takes a lot of sick days and people notice), I can't see Laurel doing her job and training without failing or doing a half ass job at one thing... Like Ron Swanson once said, never half ass two things, whole ass one. 

 

It's not bad that you're not buying her disillusionment with the law. It was only mentioned once as a plot device, and then she went back at it, never to be mentioned again. And I don't know how she'd make that work. But I tend not to think too much about that because I also don't know how Felicity and Diggle function on how little sleep they must get. It's one of those things I'm willing to overlook, but it would be nice if they address it with Laurel. Not holding my breath though. Hopefully they do address the fingerless gloves, because that's just some dumbass BS.

[statsgirl]

So Laurel gets involved because Brick is destroying evidence? At least that's a reason for her to go to Team Arrow for help, if not a reason for her to suit up.

 

I try to say I'm going to withhold judgement on Laurel, and then there's a scene like that where she's so smug and arch, and I just can't help disliking her.  It's not just the writing because there are more ways to play it.

 

Laurel keeps getting disillusioned with the law, and then going back into it, because it seems like they still don't know what to do with her.

[Chaser]

"I'm the justice you can't run from"….Or something like that. I bet Laurel loses her case and she goes after the guy on the streets. Maybe she goes to Team Arrow first and thats when she finds out Oliver is gone. Takes matters into her on hands. Sigh

 

Felicity wants to save Ray? I guess I can buy that. But it adds to the reasons why Ray and Felicity romantically wouldn't be right at all. In fact, it would be gross. 

 

I'm glad it sounds like Thea will start to put things together. 

 

The more I hear about this great Diggle and Laurel the more frustrated I get. Just because I have a feeling Diggle is going to open up to her and that relationship has not been earned.