Spoiler Discussion Thread

[ban1o]

I actually wish there isn't a time jump. I want to grieve with them in real time for a while.

yeah me too but I think there has to be a time jump.  The show always follows real time. If the time jump isn't in this episode then it will be in the next episode. 

Edited December 31, 2014 by ban1o

[tv echo]

Upon reading the Ep. 10 description, my initial thoughts are two concerns (really, fears) that have previously been expressed by others in this forum and two new concerns - namely:

 

• Why would Felicity believe Malcolm Merlyn and accept Oliver's death without third party proof (seems OOC)?
• Why is Laurel "tak[ing] up the mantle of the Black Canary" without sufficient training or motivation?
• Three days seem too short a time for them to be assuming the worst.  Nanda Parbat is in Tibet, so allowing for travel time, they should allow at least a week - unless Oliver has been calling or texting Felicity every day.  Even so, there could be spotty reception in the mountains.
• Thea should know better than to ask Malcolm for a favor.

[Sakura12]

I honestly don't know what they plan on giving Laurel in regards to the comic counterpart. They already gave everything to Sara. The sonic scream (in device form), the fishnets incorporated in her costume, the LOA connection, skilled in martial arts and other traits, a relationship with an al Ghul, the adopted family member with Sin, even knowledge of plants and flowers.

Edited December 31, 2014 by Sakura12

[Kymmi]

I'm interested in how they handle the Thea story.  How does she find out?  What favor does she ask of Malcolm and how does he respond?  Are there any Roy/Thea scenes?  I'm guessing Thea doesn't know about Roy spending so much time with Oliver (because what reasons would they have to?) but Roy still must have some feelings for Thea.  The last of her family (not counting Malcolm) is gone.

 

I can't buy Felicity (and Diggle) trusting Malcolm, I really dislike that part.  

 

I won't comment on Black Canary until I see it.

[ban1o]

 

Upon reading the Ep. 10 description, my initial thoughts are two concerns (really, fears) that have previously been expressed by others in this forum and two new concerns - namely:

 

• Why would Felicity believe Malcolm Merlyn and accept Oliver's death without third party proof (seems OOC)?
• Why is Laurel "tak[ing] up the mantle of the Black Canary" without sufficient training or motivation?
• Three days seem too short a time for them to be assuming the worst.  Nanda Parbat is in Tibet, so allowing for travel time, they should allow at least a week - unless Oliver has been calling or texting Felicity every day.  Even so, there could be spotty reception in the mountains.
• Thea should know better than to ask Malcolm for a favor.

 

I agree with all your concerns, except the first one. I don't really care whether they believe Malcolm or not tbh. Sure It is abit unrealistic but I think TA truly believe Oliver is dead has to happen for the emotional pay-off. 

Edited December 31, 2014 by ban1o

[dtissagirl]

Three days seem too short a time for them to be assuming the worst.  Nanda Parbat is in Tibet, so allowing for travel time, they should allow at least a week - unless Oliver has been calling or texting Felicity every day.  Even so, there could be spotty reception in the mountains.

The duel wasn't in Nanda Parbat, it was at a neutral site. Maseo told Oliver he had 12 hours to settle his affairs and be atop the mountain. If he took an hour to talk to Thea and Team Arrow, that gave him 11 hours to take however long a trip it was, then make the climb. So 3 days is probably enough time to hear from him, yeah.

[ban1o]

I now think when Guggenheim said "someone will doubt he's dead," he meant initially. So it is Felicity that doubt's he's dead but I think Felicity is more in denial, and then when she sees "proof" she'll finally believe it. 

Edited December 31, 2014 by ban1o

[apinknightmare]

I now think when Guggenheim said "someone will doubt he's dead," he meant initially. So it is Felicity that doubt's he's dead but I think Felicity is more in denial, and then when she sees "Proof" she'll finally believe it. 

 

Yeah, I think that's what he meant too. 

So, if there isn't a time jump within the episode, then...I really am afraid Laurel putting on that suit is initially going to have something to do with Quentin. I'm guessing he might find out soon though (HE BETTER FIND OUT SOON), based on Suzanne Gomez's tweets about the second part of the "arc."

[dtissagirl]

I have such low faith in these writers that I'm really really dreading the confrontation between Malcolm and Team Arrow. If Felicity and Diggle believe him solely because of a bloody sword, on a show wherein about eleventy billion dudes have already come back from presumed dead, I'm gonna be so pissed.

[DrSpaceman10]

I have such low faith in these writers that I'm really really dreading the confrontation between Malcolm and Team Arrow. If Felicity and Diggle believe him solely because of a bloody sword, on a show wherein about eleventy billion dudes have already come back from presumed dead, I'm gonna be so pissed.

 

They probably will believe him though (maybe not right away, but eventually). MG said on twitter that Felicity doesn't look for Oliver and the only reason I can think of that she wouldn't look for Oliver is that she thinks he's dead. It's stupid of them to keep believing Malcolm, but if Oliver doesn't come back after a duel with Ra's, I think it's somewhat reasonable for the team to assume Oliver's died. 

[ban1o]

I have such low faith in these writers that I'm really really dreading the confrontation between Malcolm and Team Arrow. If Felicity and Diggle believe him solely because of a bloody sword, on a show wherein about eleventy billion dudes have already come back from presumed dead, I'm gonna be so pissed.

Well they know this

 

1. He went to fight Ra's one of the best fighters in the world and the leader of a group of master assassins. Why would Ra's keep him alive?

2. He hasn't contacted them in a few days  (and when they do the time jump, a few weeks) when he said he would come back

3. There is a sword that contains his blood on it

 

I can kinda see why they would believe it. The only qualm is that it is coming from Merlyn. If it came from Nyssa it would be different. But I can understand why they would believe him. Oliver isn't immortal, after all.

Edited December 31, 2014 by ban1o

[apinknightmare]

Well they know this

 

1. He went to fight one of the best fighters in the world and the leader of a group of master assassins

2. He hasn't contacted them in a few days when he said he would come back

3. There is a swords that contains his blood on it

 

I can kinda see why they would believe it. The only qualm is that is comes from Merlyn. If it came from Nyssa it would be different.

 

Yeah, I hope there's some more proof or an explanation of what happened to his body, but I don't think it'll bother me tremendously if there isn't. 

[dtissagirl]

Yeah, my main complaint is believing *Malcolm*, not believing that Oliver is dead. I'm good with them believing Oliver is dead, but I legit hope they get confirmation from someone else, or some proof other than known lying liar who lies Merlyn saying so.

Edited December 31, 2014 by dancingnancy

[apinknightmare]

Yeah, my main complaint is believing *Malcolm*, not believing that Oliver is dead. I'm good with them believing Oliver is dead, but I legit hope they get confirmation from someone else, or some proof other than known lying liar who lies Merlyn saying so.

 

I wonder if they'll accept it because they know that Oliver was also doing Merlyn a favor because his debt with Ra's would be cleared if Oliver killed him. So, if that's part of it, then I would understand them believing him, since, in their eyes, he wouldn't have any reason to lie about that. Oliver winning would've benefited him - Oliver dying presents a challenge. 

[looptab]

So Oliver didn't tell them about the 12 hours he had to reach the top of the mountain? If they start worrying after 3 days. Seems a little long otherwise.

[statsgirl]

All my excitement for 3x10 just disappeared with that description.

 

I like the idea of Diggle and Roy defending the city but that's going to be over in the first few minutes of the episode.  There seems to be no reason for Felicity to believe Malcolm Merlyn since he's not only a liar but a huge manipulator but she probably will.

 

Thea thinking there is something more behind Oliver's disappearance has been ruined by the fact that she is still being such an idiot over Malcolm and not telling Oliver that he's around and dangerous.  Since she doesn't know that Oliver is the Arrow, and that he went to a deathly duel, asking Malcolm to find out why he isn't around is kind of meh.

Anyway, Thea asked Oliver not to make her choose, having already chosen Merlyn so she's off my Interest List (another possibly good plot ruined by the showrunning).

 

After two years of pretty much not caring what goes on other than to catch the Hood (she did care in the first three episodes of s1 when she was at CNRI, and the deleted scenes in 1x23), there will be some random reason (Brick?) for Laurel to put on black leather and pretend to be Sara.  Contrary to what the EPs said, that the reason for her putting on the suit will be in 3x09, there still is no real reason for her to put in on since she only swore to get Sara's killer and that's Oliver who is missing.

 

Maybe Ray's suit can distract me from her.

 

The stunts will be good because Glen Winter is directing, but between this, Flash, AoS and the movies I've seen over the holiday, I'm kind of over that kind of stunt.

 

 

I agree with all your concerns, except the first one. I don't really care whether they believe Malcolm or not tbh. Sure It is abit unrealistic but I think TA truly believe Oliver is dead has to happen for the emotional pay-off. 

I agree, to get that "epic" scene (my expectations are lowered now knowing MG wrote it), Team Arrow have to believe that Oliver is dead. But I hope they demand more proof than a bloody sword and a home video.

 

 

I wonder if they'll accept it because they know that Oliver was also doing Merlyn a favor because his debt with Ra's would be cleared if Oliver killed him. So, if that's part of it, then I would understand them believing him, since, in their eyes, he wouldn't have any reason to lie about that. Oliver winning would've benefited him - Oliver dying presents a challenge. 

If it were me, I'd be looking at what con Merlyn could be playing with having Oliver killed by Ra's.  Diggle and Felicity have already had to deal with people like Merlyn, Isabel and Moira, not to mention Slade.  Back-stabbing is the first thing they should be looking for in any statement by Malcolm.

 

. But the episodes for her "arc" haven't come out yet and there is still the possibility — however small it may appear to many on this forum, including me — that viewers may actually embrace her in all her buckled glory. There already seems to be more positive reaction to the character since the show put her on the "hero" path. #justsaying

I'm totally expecting most of the social media to embrace her, if only because Laurel is finally becoming the Black Canary, and most of the rest of the audience won't mind or will pay attention to other parts of the show.  The people like my friend who quit watching because she can't stand Laurel are few and generally silent.

 

But that doesn't mean that the writing etc. couldn't have been much better and made it more likely people who are skeptical (like Alan Sepinwall or John C.) could accept her as the Black Canary.

 

I think a lot of those buckles are just for some weird kind of Edward Scissorhands-esqe aesthetic, and probably aren't functional. I bet she could slip into the costume and only need to buckle a few. That, of course, begs the question on why someone who will be fighting people wanting to grab at her would have so many parts of her costume that could get pulled on/snagged on something, but she's a DA going out at night as a vigilante and wearing fingerless gloves, so...yeah, I got nothing.

I remember that Stephen Amell said that he insisted that the Arrow costume be simple enough that he (i.e. Oliver) would be able to get into in it on his own quickly.  Why SA >>>>>> KC.

Edited December 31, 2014 by statsgirl

[ban1o]

SA is the lead actor and I even doubt he had that much input on his costume. I doubt KC had any input on the costume whatsoever. I don't think that's fair.

Edited December 31, 2014 by ban1o

[apinknightmare]

If it were me, I'd be looking at what con Merlyn could be playing with having Oliver killed by Ra's.  Diggle and Felicity have already had to deal with people like Merlyn, Isabel and Moira, not to mention Slade.  Back-stabbing is the first thing they should be looking for in any statement by Malcolm.

 

But they really don't have any reason to believe Malcolm would be in cahoots with Ra's. They know Sara was in town tracking him on behalf of the League, they know Nyssa and the rest of the League is after him. They know Malcolm was shitty enough to use his own daughter as bait to manipulate Oliver into fighting Ra's to erase both of their debts...maybe they don't believe him at first, but they know Oliver went off to fight one of the deadliest guys in the world and he hasn't come back and someone brought them a sword with his blood all over it. He may have something else too, who knows. I won't be upset if they do buy it.

[Morrigan2575]

I'm totally expecting most of the social media to embrace her, if only because Laurel is finally becoming the Black Canary, and most of the rest of the audience won't mind or will pay attention to other parts of the show.

What do you mean by Social Media.

[Password]

I don't know. Malcolm Merlyn is a lying liar that lies. If he brought the sword and a 4g video with slow mo replay, I'd ask where Oliver's body is.

Edited January 1, 2015 by Limbo

[apinknightmare]

I don't know. Malcolm Merlyn is a lying liar that lies. If he brought the sword and a 4g video with slow month replay, I'd ask where Oliver's body is.

 

Regardless of who tells them, they're not going to have a body. So I guess I've just resigned myself to not caring, haha.

[ban1o]

I wonder how Chase the dj fits in this episode I know that Austin Butler was at the table read according to one of Amell's tweets.

[calliope1975]

I'm interested in how they handle the Thea story.  How does she find out?  What favor does she ask of Malcolm and how does he respond?  Are there any Roy/Thea scenes?  I'm guessing Thea doesn't know about Roy spending so much time with Oliver (because what reasons would they have to?) but Roy still must have some feelings for Thea.  The last of her family (not counting Malcolm) is gone.

 

Did Thea even bat an eye when Roy was hanging out with Felicity, Caitlin, and Cisco? While I appreciate Thea and Roy's mature break-up relationship, I'd think she would wonder how he became such besties with Felicity. I suppose everything can be answered with Brainwashed!

 

I also hope Thea catches a quick and early clue that her dad is a crazy loonball who should be avoided.

 

I don't know. Malcolm Merlyn is a lying liar that lies. If he brought the sword and a 4g video with slow month replay, I'd ask where Oliver's body is.

 

I'm mostly okay with Team Arrow believing Oliver is dead, but I'm not okay with that being based on Merlyn's word. And why can everyone and their brother get into the Arrow Cave. I have no doubt that Thea just hangs out there in her spare time since it's so easy to break into.

 

I don't care about Ray or his Atom suit. TPTB have given me nothing to care about. 

 

As far as Buckle Canary, who puts together her awesomely lame outfit. Is she or Ted a tailor? If she just buys some generic leather, why pick the pieces with the most buckles? Why the fingerless gloves? Will she need to use her smartphone and the only full gloves she could find didn't have those little things that allow you to use the touchscreen? These are the questions I'll need answered. 

[Chiny11]

I am also interested in how Thea finds out that her brother is dead.

When she doesn't see him in the first couple of days (before MM tells TA that Oliver is dead) , I hope she goes to Diggle to ask him if he knows where Oliver is.

ETA: I wish someone else... like a member of the LOA ... broke the news to TA. Why does it have to be MM? BTW, the LOA strikes me as an organization that would take on the responsibility of formally breaking this piece of news to the family /friends of OQ.

Edited December 31, 2014 by Chiny11

[ban1o]

Mmm I think Malcolm will tell her Oliver is dead. But come up with some BS reason for his death. 

[Chiny11]

Mmm I think Malcolm will tell her Oliver is dead. But come up with some BS reason for his death.

Gosh! That would be awful.

I really hope TA don't just allow MM manipulate her. Her brother is dead. They need to tell her the truth.. all of it.

[ban1o]

Gosh! That would be awful.

I really hope TA don't just allow MM manipulate her. Her brother is dead. They need to tell her the truth.. all of it.

I agree it would be awful lol. It's just what I think might happen. The writers probably want to keep Thea in the dark for longer. 

Edited December 31, 2014 by ban1o

[apinknightmare]

Mmm I think Malcolm will tell her Oliver is dead. But come up with some BS reason for his death. 

 

Why would he do that? It's not like they don't all know he went to duel Ra's, and he brings Felicity the sword. 

[ban1o]

Why would he do that? It's not like they don't all know he went to duel Ra's, and he brings Felicity the sword. 

No  I mean he'll tell Thea some BS reason. She doesn't know he went to fight Ra's and  telling her how he really died could be problematic. He could come up with a reason to manipulate her more. 

Edited December 31, 2014 by ban1o

[statsgirl]

But they really don't have any reason to believe Malcolm would be in cahoots with Ra's. They know Sara was in town tracking him on behalf of the League, they know Nyssa and the rest of the League is after him. They know Malcolm was shitty enough to use his own daughter as bait to manipulate Oliver into fighting Ra's to erase both of their debts...maybe they don't believe him at first, but they know Oliver went off to fight one of the deadliest guys in the world and he hasn't come back and someone brought them a sword with his blood all over it. He may have something else too, who knows. I won't be upset if they do buy it.

They don't have to see Malcolm as being in cahoots with Ra's, they already know that Malcolm engineered the circumstances so that Oliver would have to fight Ra's to save Thea.  That right there is enough to never believe anything Malcolm says, not to mention that Malcolm was responsible for their friend Sara dying.

 

SA is the lead actor and I even doubt he had that much input on his costume. I doubt KC had any input on the costume whatsoever. I don't think that's fair.

I'm used to actors who fight for their characters.  I remember back on The Lost World, Michael Sinelnikoff said that there were so many different writers and directors in the first season that the actors talked amongst themselves and said that they had to take responsibility for maintaining the consistency of their characters

 

I can believe that KC was not consulted about her BC costume before they presented the drawings to her although even Brandon Routh got to look at the early drawings for his.  But just as SA said that Oliver's costume has to be so that he can put it on without needing someone else's help to get it on, I think all the actors have a responsibility for the consistency of their characters.  So even though the EPs okayed it, I think KC should have asked Why are the gloves fingerless because she's a lawyer and she's going to be leaving fingerprints all over the city?  Will  Laurel be able to put it on by herself?  Will the buckles snag on things and get in the way when she's fighting?

 

I think KC gets criticism for things that are beyond her control, but I kind of feel the criticism of her BC costume is something she could have lessened. Unless it is purposefully meant to be a fail, in the way that her initial fighting abilities are a fail, and then both get better.

 

What do you mean by Social Media.

Twitter, and blogs and youtube telecasts by people who watch the show because of the comic book connection, as opposed to those who got pulled in by the storylines in the first two seasons.  I still think that those people who know the comic books aren't expecting Laurel to become a superhero, especially after seeing Sara, whereas for many who do come from the comics, seeing Laurel as BC is going to have the feel of righting the show to meet their previous expectations.

Edited January 1, 2015 by statsgirl

[apinknightmare]

No  I mean he'll tell Thea some BS reason. She doesn't know he went to fight Ra's and  telling her how he really died could be problematic. He could come up with a reason to manipulate her more. 

 

Ah, I missed the "her." Never mind! :) 

They don't have to see Malcolm as being in cahoots with Ra's, they already know that Malcolm engineered the circumstances so that Oliver would have to fight Ra's to save Thea.  That right there is enough to never believe anything Malcolm says, not to mention that Malcolm was responsible for their friend Sara dying.

 

He engineered the circumstances so that Oliver would fight Ra's to save Thea so it would benefit HIM. He set his daughter up to save his own ass. That's why I think they'd believe him, because his plan failed - he has absolutely no reason to lie to them, because Oliver's loss is also his. 

[insubordination]

 

"Why so many buckles?"

 It's symbolic. They buckled and made her Canary.

 

 

I actually think they're going to give themselves an 'out' on making her Canary just in case things don't work out the way they hope. They have never had faith in the character.

[Chiny11]

I think Stastgirl is right. Whatever some may think of insta-canary / buckle-canary, I think comic fan boys and girls will create online buzz once the story starts to unfold (even if the writing sucks.).

Also,do we have any other female comic-book character on broadcast network? (I say broadcast network because I don't know much about what is going on on shows like Walking Dead... That's based on a comic book right?)

Anyway, if Canary is the only female comic-book character on broadcast network, then even with bad writing they will keep the character because of that. I think.

Edited January 1, 2015 by Chiny11

[DrSpaceman10]

Also,do we have any other female comic-book character on broadcast network? (I say broadcast network because I don't know much about what is going on on shows like Walking Dead... That's based on a comic book right?)

Anyway, if Canary is the only female comic-book character on broadcast network, then even with bad writing they will keep the character because of that. I think.

 

Mockingbird on Agents of Shield on ABC. I personally don't think putting on a costume is really going to change anyone's minds about a character.

[apinknightmare]

Anyway, if Canary is the only female comic-book character on broadcast network, then even with bad writing they will keep the character because of that. I think.

 

I don't think they care about women enough to keep one around for any reason. But if they'd keep anyone, it'd probably be her.

[Chiny11]

Mockingbird on Agents of Shield on ABC. I personally don't think putting on a costume is really going to change anyone's minds about a character.

Oh, I totally agree that putting someone in costume won't change anyone's mind about the character. The comic fans I referenced are those that have been complaining ad infinitum about how the show is not sticking to the comics. Those are the ones that I think would be excited about buckle canary. Sorry for not being clear initially.

ETA: totally forgot about AOS. Thanks for mentioning that.

Edited January 1, 2015 by Chiny11

[ban1o]

Statsgirl I just don't really think KC should be criticized for the costume. She's an actor not a costume design or and she obviously doesn't have much creative input on the show. The people who should be blamed are the costume designers.

[NumberCruncher]

I can't believe I'm saying this (I'd blame wine but I'm drinking coffee) ... but it might be a tad too early to call Laurel's rise to Black Canary "a massive fail all around." Don't get me wrong, I totally agree with you about the bad execution — writing, acting, costume. But the episodes for her "arc" haven't come out yet and there is still the possibility — however small it may appear to many on this forum, including me — that viewers may actually embrace her in all her buckled glory. There already seems to be more positive reaction to the character since the show put her on the "hero" path. #justsaying

This is me. I've made no secret of the fact I don't hate the character, but I just don't care about her. Maybe that will change with the upcoming arc episodes (although I somehow doubt it), but I'm sure there are plenty of show fans who are looking forward to seeing BC.

[Chaser]

I would like Team Arrow to need to see a body, but that really wouldn't work since he is coming back. I would prefer Nyssa to tell them he is dead, but I'm not going to be up in arms about Malcolm telling them as long as he offers reasonable proof. The wording of the description makes me think that Felicity spends the episode in denial until Malcolm convinces her of Oliver's death. So why do they think Oliver's dead initially? Does the LOA send them a message? Next to Diggle and Felicity's reactions, I'm looking forward to the Felicity and Malcolm interaction.

 

I thought that DR said that Ray hasn't suited up or they weren't sure about where they were going with that? The description sounds like he is taking it for a test drive. 

 

Still not looking forward to the really emotional scene between Diggle and Laurel. I think its going to be about the loss of siblings and Laurel's hot-headness. And it will end with Diggle giving Laurel an invitation to join Team Arrow (based on the BTS pics for future episodes). They aren't going to let Oliver mentor her because that would be an insult, so they may have Diggle and Arsenal teach her a few things.  Arsenal trains the Black Canary. I wonder what the comic purist will say about that.

 

Regrading a possible rush of popularity for Laurel when she becomes the Black Canary. The show is three seasons in; Its audience is set. I really doubt people have been secretly loving her and are just waiting for Black Canary to show it. I think that a costume isn't really going to change that; they still have a big problem with fitting her in. What happens when she is Black Canary? They can't make her an equal action partner to Arrow (it looks like they are moving Roy to that position), with her lack of training and experience she would just be a side kick and need a lot of help from Oliver. Would they put her back in DA mode and have her keep taking boxing lessons, only teaming her with Team Arrow for very special episodes? I'm leaning towards the last one because It looks like KC has a lot of conventions coming up, more then any other cast member (not that that is a great indicator for anything and it may be nothing more then my wishful thinking that later episodes will be L-Lite)

 

ETA: Time. Time makes them think Oliver is dead. Re-reading helps. Lol

Edited January 1, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[apinknightmare]

This is me. I've made no secret of the fact I don't hate the character, but I just don't care about her. Maybe that will change with the upcoming arc episodes (although I somehow doubt it), but I'm sure there are plenty of show fans who are looking forward to seeing BC.

 

Yeah, I think the excitement is for seeing the "true" Canary or whatever, and I have seen some bloggers and commenters excited that she finally has something to do. I wonder how the fans will react to her being the worst fighter "of the people who fight" or however MG phrased it. It seems like they're setting her up just a bit. I guess we'll see in a few weeks.

[Chaser]

I would feel bad for the writers, but they brought this on themselves. L/KC fans and comic purists want to see the Black Canary in all the glory, but it doesn't look like there is going to be a whole lot of glory involved. And it will probably change with a Big Damn Hero moment in 3x13, but the quote about her having to find another way because of her lack of skills makes me wonder. 

Edited January 1, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[chaos is welcome]

Regarding the buckles, I think they were necessary to bulk up kcs legs. She has sticks for legs.

I am envisioning her going to jump over a balcony and having them catch. #parkourfail

I can't believe they actually wrote "laurel takes up the mantle of black canary" in the ep description. I don't really want to bawl for felicity and then watch laurel fail. Absolutely nothing to look forward to. Will try very hard to wait until multiple eps are available to watch.

If Malcolm goes days later, who does he get the sword from? Does the loa just LEAVE it on the mtn top?

[wonderwall]

Statsgirl I just don't really think KC should be criticized for the costume. She's an actor not a costume design or and she obviously doesn't have much creative input on the show. The people who should be blamed are the costume designers.

Agreed. Blame the costume department for the terrible costume designs. Blame the writers for the bad writing. And blame the actors for bad acting if you see fit. I don't think it's fair to blame an actor on something they don't really have control over, and in this case, KC for sure didn't have control over her wardrobe except for maybe in season 2. 

Also it's funny how they just tagged on Laurel's bit. Like it was just an afterthought. sort of like "oh and laurel takes on the bc mantle"... What?! :p That description requires more than a sentence 

[KenyaJ]

I don't think KC should be blamed for that suit, but I do wonder if she's expressed any concerns to TPTB about how impractical it is. I think about the way SA argued with the writers about Oliver's drinking and the way EBR pleaded with TPTB to bring back Felicity's ponytail in S2. I really appreciate it when actors immerse themselves in their characters and care about those kinds of small details. Considering how many viewers are concerned about the buckles (and fingerless gloves), I hope KC has reservations about them too, and doesn't just think it's a cool, badass costume. If she does, maybe Laurel's initial lack of success as BC might also lead to an evolution of her costume.

[Princess Vanellope]

Oliver has been working towards becoming a hero for 7.5 years, and he is still just "The Arrow". But a recovering alcoholic ADA with 6-8 weeks of boxing lessons gets to be "Black Canary" from the get go? Nope, sorry, this isn't okay with me.

As far as social media embracing Laurel because she's in costume, I doubt it. Once dislike has been formed for a character, changing the tide for that character is nearly impossible. I can think of very few instances where a character has gone from detested to beloved. And I really don't think these writers have what it takes to accomplish that.

[chaos is welcome]

^yeah pretty much this. Because comics. But Oliver has spent years. YEARS. Learning, losing himself, finding himself again. Sigh. I can not wait to see John Campeas rxn.

Edited January 1, 2015 by chaos is welcome

[olicityfan25]

They are in for a rude awakening. It's so unfair to see Laurel be named Black Canary already when she hasn't done jack shit. I'm sorry. Oliver has been fighting for what seems like forever just to be called something other than the hood or the vigilante. Fans who do not like this character are very vocal. They will go to social media and declare that they don't like it. Rightfully so because they keep propping up this character with killing off better actors/characters. 

 

Felicity has shown more fight than Laurel and I don't see anyone saying "Felicity Smoak always trying to save the world." Which I die laughing whenever it's said to Laurel. Really? She hasn't saved anyone. Everyone's always saving her.

[Kordi]

Here are some new speculations about S3B. Since they are mixed with some spoilers I post it in this thread. I think these specs are VERY interesting and help to make sense of some things going on on the show. I recommend the linked post as some kind of New Year's Read (after recovering from hangovers :-P) Good way to regain some excitement for the second half of the season. And btw HAPPY NEW YEAR to everyone!

 

http://menalsoship.tumblr.com/post/106345274041/my-theory-about-arrows-season-3b

Edited January 1, 2015 by Kordi

[Chiny11]

Here are some new speculations about S3B. Since they are mixed with some spoilers I post it in this thread. I think these specs are VERY interesting and help to make sense of some things going on on the show. I recommend the linked post as some kind of New Year's Read (after recovering from hangovers :-P) Good way to regain some excitement for the second half of the season. And btw HAPPY NEW YEAR to everyone!

http://menalsoship.tumblr.com/post/106345274041/my-theory-about-arrows-season-3b

Interesting read. I guess it underscores the statement that a lot of fans have previously posted here - MM is a man who plans. He always has a Plan.

[ban1o]

Interest spec except I hate the speculation the dj moron is slides son. Let that die lol.