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Spoilers, New Topics & Co

Spoiler Discussion Thread

Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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Sunshine

Sunshine

Just curious because of all the secrecy surrounding ME’s character, is it possible Cayden James is an alias for a comic book character? It just seems like there should be more to it.  Cayden James, an original character, could still be a villain for Oliver even if Felicity and Curtis are dead.  So why the secrecy?

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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leopardprint

leopardprint

(edited)

So Samantha runs off even though Oliver has William off island? And Felicity trips on air?

Sigh.  

Samantha clearly is too stupid to live but it's still gross that's how she going to go out. 

But Yay Diggle! ???

Edited by leopardprint
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Belinea

Belinea

1 minute ago, leopardprint said:

So Samantha runs off even though Oliver has William off island? And Felicity trips on air?

Sigh.  

Well, she needs to be dead for the plot and Diggle needs to help Felicity, so he can get injured for the plot.

18 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Im surprised it's not a sneak peek of BS. I was totally banking on that being the first clip. 

Maybe they thought 'How about we'll leave the best for last'

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Chaser

Chaser

20 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Wow, they fit in a Diggle/Felicity moment presumably during the first 10 minutes of the episode, already an accomplishment in my book.

I hope there is a present day scene to follow up. She feels guilty over his trauma, he tells her they are family.

I need Delicity back.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

9 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

So Samantha runs off even though Oliver has William off island?

She doesn't know that - the last transmission Oliver had with the team, he was with Chase on the boat but Chase hadn't revealed that he had William with him. 

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Featherhat

Featherhat

Yeah I don't think she knew William was with Chase/Oliver but I'm still annoyed this is how she's going out, running around on an island she doesn't know, looking for her son. Yeah she's panicking and might want to blow up rather than escape and have William die without her but every other parent who sacrificed for their kids at least thought they were buying them some more time. I don't like the character in the slightest but still. 

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

1 minute ago, Featherhat said:

Yeah I don't think she knew William was with Chase/Oliver but I'm still annoyed this is how she's going out, running around on an island she doesn't know, looking for her son.

Yep. It seems kind of weak to me? It really does play like, "We want Oliver to now have to raise William full-time, so, uh, let's have Samantha run towards the bombs. Great. Done. Next."  

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I think it makes sense in a state of panic to run toward the danger if you think that's where your kid is. I'm not sure that measured logic to try to piece things together would've really fit in the time crunch they had (the in-show time crunch of not knowing if/when the island was going to blow up), and without knowing where William was she couldn't go along with the team and escape. IDK, it doesn't bother me so much given the circumstances.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

6 minutes ago, Belinea said:

Why didn't Oliver just tell them real quick that he is with William? Was there too little time?

Maybe? Right after Oliver talked to them, Chase pulled William out of the cabin, and Oliver spent the rest of the time dealing with Chase - then he killed himself and everything went boom.

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Sunshine

Sunshine

Ha! I wear nothing but flats and have been known to trip over air or even carpet that’s laying completely flat.  I’ve seen others do it too.  Felicity is in heels on uneven terrain so I’m going to give her a pass.

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DeadZeus

DeadZeus

I'm not up to date with all "spoilers" but the recent preview clip shows Slade ditching everyone to save himself... I dno if i am missing something but it kinda seems out of character, because he looked and acted really indebted to Oliver for releasing him and giving him the USB-drive, seems odd that he would now let all of Oliver's friend die.

And in a previously shown trailer they are seen shaking hands... Seems odd to me after he ditches Oliver's friends... I must be missing something.

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statsgirl

statsgirl

1 hour ago, Chaser said:

I'm so glad Slade and Oliver make up. He's such a good guy.

LOL.  This is so Arrow -- if someone is nice to Oliver, they're a good guy and to hell with how they treat everyone else.

Quote

.One of the things that Oliver is going to be exploring is the question of nature versus nurture. Why is Laurel from Earth-2 so evil, when Laurel on Earth-1 is not? We will answer that question through the course of the season and figuring out if she really is incapable of redemption.

I have zero trust that they're not going to screw up the nature vs nurture explanation.

In shallow news, I'm glad that Felicity's bridesmaids dress is really a satin evening gown.  She should be able to get good use out of it as Mrs. Mayor.

I really hate how the women in the Arrowverse (and other shows) are forced to wear shoes that are ridiculous to walk in. It's especially bad for the non-fighters like Felicity and Iris.  The shoes Iris was wearing at the start of the Flash episode on Tuesday are ones no sane person would wear for running around STAR Labs.

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Cleanqueen

Cleanqueen

She's wearing boots with a little heel, and I can see what she fell there does seem to be a lot of rocks around.

I understand Samantha running the other direction to find her kid as well and pretty heroic for Thea and Felicity to run after her as well. I would've probably said "peace out"

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leopardprint

leopardprint

(edited)
1 hour ago, apinknightmare said:

She doesn't know that - the last transmission Oliver had with the team, he was with Chase on the boat but Chase hadn't revealed that he had William with him. 

Oops, that's what I get for trying to watch the promo with low volume. 

The problem is that she just suddenly decided to go after William at the worst possible time while happily trekking along with the group when she could have been off looking for him? Instead of having her snark at Felicity, she should have been insisting on talking to Oliver just so she seemed less dumb. Though Samantha has never been portrayed as the most rational character. 

I have major issues with the "disposable mother" of it all even if I think she's a terrible character. 

Edited by leopardprint
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statsgirl

statsgirl

I hate to support Samantha but while she was trekking with the others, she did tell Felicity? Thea? that she wasn't going to leave the island with them, she was going back to look for William.  I can understand that when she thought the island was going to blow up her first thought was to run to find her son rather than go to safety with the others.

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WindofChange

WindofChange

I don't really get why people expect Samantha to act rationally here. Felicity similarly didn't act rationally when her first thought was for Ray to save Oliver instead of the city when she found out he was in grave danger. It's human to think of your loved one first.

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Midnight Lullaby

Midnight Lullaby

Does the dialogue sounds weird to anyone else? Like it was added later and doesn't feel right?

The actress that plays Samantha didn't really sell me the character's fear..maybe it's because the whole scene is so fast there really isn't time to focus on the character's reactions. 

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Guest

Guest

Yeah, I have no problem with Samantha running into danger. It's a parent's instinct, IMO. I don't like the character but she's acting like a mother would tbh.

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ComicFan777

ComicFan777

(edited)

I think that it would have made sense for a panicked Samantha, not caring how dangerous it would be, to head back to the temple where the villains set up their base to see if William was hidden in one of the rooms...maybe they overlooked something.  She'd want to rush back there before the explosions because the path would be gone afterwards.  The villains would be unlikely to bomb their own base, so if she could make it there in time, she would find shelter, too. 

Edited by ComicFan777
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leopardprint

leopardprint

(edited)
8 minutes ago, ChampagneSupernova said:

I don't really get why people expect Samantha to act rationally here. Felicity similarly didn't act rationally when her first thought was for Ray to save Oliver instead of the city when she found out he was in grave danger. It's human to think of your loved one first.

I don't question her rushing into danger to find her son, I question the writing having her wander off in the opposite direction for most of the episode then decide to go look for her son. She does know Oliver went to look for him so not sure why she went with the group that is not looking for him.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

There was literally no point to her going with Thea and Felicity except to say that one line about not looking complicated. 

Edited by leopardprint
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Chaser

Chaser

7 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Well, no one can say BS isn't responsible for any deaths after that clip. 

If they dare try a redemption arc after that, I'm going to be so pissed.

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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

How is it possible that she's gotten more horrible acting-wise? Isn't bitchy, villainous and evil supposed to be her wheelhouse? That's quite cringe-y. And yeah, the dialogue seems off. Bad ADR? I do like that the show seem to be emphasizing bad, bad, bad when it comes to BS. Redemption arc is still possible, though. I mean, after what this show pulled with Malcolm, and now with Slade? 

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lemotomato

lemotomato

(edited)

Unrepentant cop killer? At least Slade can say he was crazy on Mirakuru. What's going to BS's excuse? (Or rather, what's going to be the excuses made on her behalf by people who are convinced she'll be redeemed? "Oh, but she didn't kill Quentin! She just killed all his coworkers and people he was responsible for, that's ok! I'm sure she didn't want to really!")

Edited by lemotomato
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leopardprint

leopardprint

10 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

How is it possible that she's gotten more horrible acting-wise? Isn't bitchy, villainous and evil supposed to be her wheelhouse? That's quite cringe-y. And yeah, the dialogue seems off. Bad ADR? I do like that the show seem to be emphasizing bad, bad, bad when it comes to BS. Redemption arc is still possible, though. I mean, after what this show pulled with Malcolm, and now with Slade? 

Was Malcolm supposed to be a redeemed character? Did EPs ever say anything to that effect? Or was he an evil character protected by virtue of being Thea's dad but still an evil villain?

I just think there isn't a point to redeeming BS because then they just get Canary Cries in stereo? 

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

2 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Unrepentant cop killer? At least Slade can say he was crazy on Mirakuru. What's going to BS's excuse? (Or rather, what's going to be the excuses made on her behalf by people who are convinced she'll be redeemed?)

She didn't know all those cops would die when she left them already dead from bullet wounds or nearly dead and blew up the building. How could she know that they wouldn't be able to get out of there in time? 

No, but seriously, I don't think they'll be able to talk about redemption for her after that. Before the premiere, fine. But after showing her do that? Hopefully all that talk about redemption was just a talking point for the summer and now it'll become, "Nope, she's a villain. 100% evil." 

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)
1 hour ago, DeadZeus said:

I'm not up to date with all "spoilers" but the recent preview clip shows Slade ditching everyone to save himself... I dno if i am missing something but it kinda seems out of character, because he looked and acted really indebted to Oliver for releasing him and giving him the USB-drive, seems odd that he would now let all of Oliver's friend die.

And in a previously shown trailer they are seen shaking hands... Seems odd to me after he ditches Oliver's friends... I must be missing something.

Manu said at a comic con over the summer that the scene was originally written that Slade would run off with the group together, but he didn't think that felt right so he spoke to MG and MG agreed to change it. He said that he wanted to preserve Oliver/Slade's stand-alone relationship and not make Slade a part of the group...

-- On changing a 601 scene, Manu Bennett: "It's interesting because, you know, like, there's like a whole bunch of new characters on that show. To be honest, in the first episode - which I can't really talk about, can I? But there was this moment where I'm meant to be with the rest of them. You know, and the scene was written that, you know, the group and Slade/Deathstroke run off together. And I said to - I said to Marc Guggenheim - I said, 'Is this going to be a musical?' (laughs) ... No, but I asked him, I said, 'It sort of doesn't feel right, does it?' Marc agreed with me and so there's a very specific scene where I say - it's in the trailer, there's a trailer that's out now for Season 6. (Cut to video clip from trailer where Felicity runs up to Slade and says, "Hey, Oliver says there's a boat on the eastern shore," and Slade replies, "You lot won't make it in time. I'll take my own chances.") ... And I say, 'I'm gonna - I'm gonna' - what's the word? I say, uh, 'you guys will never get off this island in time' or something like that. 'I'll take my own chances.' Yeah, and I walk off. And I'm kind of just wanting to preserve the strength of the relationship between Slade and Oliver, just on that level, because it's such a sort of stand-alone little relationship, that I just don’t want to get caught up in the group and be like ‘Hey, high five! Yeah!’ Anyway, you'll see it in the first episode.” (MCM Manchester Comic Con, July 29-30, 2017: Video of MYM Buzz interview with Manu Bennett in Aug. 11, 2017 ComicBook article, page 5 of New Spoilers thread)

Also, WM has said in interviews that Oliver can never fully trust Slade because Slade is who he is and is never fully trustworthy. Also, that Slade still killed Oliver's mother. (Oct. 9, 2017 IGN tweet & article and Oct. 12, 2017 CBR article, page 8 of New Spoilers thread) 

SA has said that Slade is back to who he was - the undrugged version - in Season 1.  (Oct. 5, 2017 TVLine article, page 7 of New Spoilers thread)

So I guess the bottom line is that Slade was Oliver's friend in S1 and is now not his enemy, but he's still not entirely trustworthy.

Edited by tv echo
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WindofChange

WindofChange

22 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Unrepentant cop killer? At least Slade can say he was crazy on Mirakuru. What's going to BS's excuse? (Or rather, what's going to be the excuses made on her behalf by people who are convinced she'll be redeemed? "Oh, but she didn't kill Quentin! She just killed all his coworkers and people he was responsible for, that's ok! I'm sure she didn't want to really!")

Technically she didn't kill them, her goons did. THERE'S STILL SOME GOOD LEFT IN HER! 

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lemotomato

lemotomato

1 minute ago, ChampagneSupernova said:

Technically she didn't kill them, her goons did. THERE'S STILL SOME GOOD LEFT IN HER! 

"She didn't know that button she pushed would set off explosives! She thought it would just make bomb noises!"

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DeadZeus

DeadZeus

Is there really a redemption planend for Black Siren? I would hate this... It would be more fun and unique if they really keep her a villain and Oliver has to take her out for real.. Yes Oliver and not Dinah...

Imo BS shouldn't even be able to hold a candle to Oliver, i guess he will be conventiently somewhere else when he attacks the oh so well defended bunker?

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