Spoiler Discussion Thread

[way2interested]

I mean, SA said there was a "a safe bet" that they'd have interactions, so idk.

[Mellowyellow]

I was glad they kept her out of that stupid episode to be honest.

It was MG's rant not really part of Arrow.

[statsgirl]

1 hour ago, way2interested said:

I mean, SA said there was a "a safe bet" that they'd have interactions, so idk.

I'm sure they'll have interactions.  But Rory, who should have been used to inform us about Felicity's Havenrock guilt, ended up more significantly  bonding with Oliver over their fathers' legacies so I don't expect the question of Felicity's lack of a father growing up is going to come up.

[way2interested]

1 minute ago, statsgirl said:

I'm sure they'll have interactions.  But Rory, who should have been used to inform us about Felicity's Havenrock guilt, ended up more significantly  bonding with Oliver over their fathers' legacies so I don't expect the question of Felicity's lack of a father growing up is going to come up.

I have no idea until it happens or not, but I don't think Rory's a good argument in this case. He literally only had one conversation with Oliver about their fathers (502) and then had way more scenes one-on-one with Felicity and bouncing off of her plot/feelings (503,504, 510, 511, 512). After 502, Rory never directly spoke with Oliver again.

[LeighAn]

7 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I'm sure they'll have interactions.  But Rory, who should have been used to inform us about Felicity's Havenrock guilt, ended up more significantly  bonding with Oliver over their fathers' legacies so I don't expect the question of Felicity's lack of a father growing up is going to come up.

How so?

Rory had one meaningful scene with Oliver. The rest of his meaningful scenes were with Felicity and if anything he was a prop to motivate Felicity storylines more then any other character.

 

ETA: or what @way2interested said. Sorry.

Edited July 14, 2017 by LeighAn

[statsgirl]

Rory had a brief scene with Felicity about Havenrock when Oliver asked her to speak to him to convince him to stay with the team.  As far as I can remember, that was the extent of Felicity processing Havenrock with Rory.  They did have other scenes, after all someone had to tell Oliver that Felicity was behaving strangely, but in spite of writers like BFS saying that the show is going to deal with Felicity's Havenrock feelings, it was there only as long as it took to get Rory to stay on OIiver's team and then were gone.

I don't expect more from Felicity/William.

[LeighAn]

Except Oliver knew Felicity was behaving strangely before Rory told him. All Rory did was confirm what Oliver already suspected. 

[wonderwall]

From what I just posted in the spoilers thread... What does a 'lower case r relationship' even mean?

[bijoux]

Will Rene be getting a suit upgrade? I know what he's wearing is from the comics but his Friday the 13th aesthetic is going to stick out like an even sorer thumb now.

[Mellowyellow]

Just now, wonderwall said:

From what I just posted in the spoilers thread... What does a 'lower case r relationship' even mean?

Haha I saw that and was waiting for one of you guys to tell me!

[wonderwall]

1 minute ago, Mellowyellow said:

Haha I saw that and was waiting for one of you guys to tell me!

It could mean they take things slow and ramp up by the end of 6A turnign it to a capital R relationship when they get married but who knows lol

[LeighAn]

1 minute ago, wonderwall said:

From what I just posted in the spoilers thread... What does a 'lower case r relationship' even mean?

It mean "I'm in my fifties and both don't understand how social media works and think I'm smarter then it and don't realise my actors have already spoiled a wedding and therefore are trying to keep spoilers from getting out and leaving my audience unsuspecting both to surprise my fans and keep redditors out of my mentions". 

[bijoux]

2 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

From what I just posted in the spoilers thread... What does a 'lower case r relationship' even mean?

Even more puzling, it "loVer case r". ? As for lower case, I'd guess it's more a background thing, not front and center. Which I'm fine with for the most part, but there needs to be some desparate clinging and big time smooching when they see each other alive on the island.

1 minute ago, LeighAn said:

It mean "I'm in my fifties and both don't understand how social media works and think I'm smarter then it and don't realise my actors have already spoiled a wedding and therefore are trying to keep spoilers from getting out and leaving my audience unsuspecting both to surprise my fans and keep redditors out of my mentions". 

Or most likely this.

[LeighAn]

2 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Even more puzling, it "loVer case r". ? As for lower case, I'd guess it's more a background thing, not front and center. Which I'm fine with for the most part, but there needs to be some desparate clinging and big time smooching when they see each other alive on the island.

Yeah that's probably it. I remember him saying something similar before season 4 aired.

[BkWurm1]

Didn't they use that expression (lower case r relationship) last season to talk about their relationship status at some point?  I just can't recall the context.  I want to say it was about just them interacting on a non romance level but that doesn't make any sense in the context of what MG is quoted as saying.  

 

Edited:  Yeah, what LeighAn said.  

Edited July 14, 2017 by BkWurm1

[Mellowyellow]

7 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Even more puzling, it "loVer case r". ? As for lower case, I'd guess it's more a background thing, not front and center. Which I'm fine with for the most part, but there needs to be some desparate clinging and big time smooching when they see each other alive on the island.

 

Don't forget the sex scene!!!! I want one last sex scene before they cuddle and make heart eyes in the background!

[leopardprint]

Just now, BkWurm1 said:

Didn't they use that expression (lower case r relationship) last season to talk about their relationship status at some point?  I just can't recall the context.  I want to say it was about just them interacting on a non romance level but that doesn't make any sense in the context of what MG is quoted as saying.  

I think it's his dumb way of saying "You'll have to tune in and see..." 

William, Slade, Black Siren and Curtis, does not bode well...hopefully the heavy Myson and Slade stuff is just in the first few episodes and then they go away...

[DrSpaceman10]

The "if X survives" stuff is going to be so annoying at SDCC, I can already tell. 

[bijoux]

8 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Don't forget the sex scene!!!! I want one last sex scene before they cuddle and make heart eyes in the background!

Come now, the sex can come after they've been making heart eyes. It's important to be flexible.

[LeighAn]

 

Im pretty much in agreement also to these tweets. I'm sure once we have the actual quotes in context it won't sound as random. 

[apinknightmare]

5 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Didn't they use that expression (lower case r relationship) last season to talk about their relationship status at some point?  I just can't recall the context.  I want to say it was about just them interacting on a non romance level but that doesn't make any sense in the context of what MG is quoted as saying.  

 

Edited:  Yeah, what LeighAn said.  

 

Yes, it was here:

 

Quote

That hospital scene didn't just take Oliver and Felicity and put them back in a box. The repercussions of that scene and that storyline in Episode One, that's going to follow them throughout the course of Season Three. We didn't just hit pause or reset on their relationship; this is just a development in an ongoing relationship for them -- relationship with a lower-case "r."

He also used it when referring to Felicity's lower-case "d" dark path. 

[ComicFan777]

I found a couple of other times that Guggenheim interviews have referred to a "lowercase r" relationship between Oliver and Felicity:

January 2014 - http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/arrow-season-2-preview-olicity-671164
They're both friends, they're very different people, they're co-workers in the oddest set of circumstances but at the same time, they're drawn to each other with an obvious chemistry. Their relationship, lowercase "R," is really fraught and that's what creates the fun and the drama for us, of watching these two very different people dance around each other.

February 2015 - http://ew.com/article/2015/02/10/arrow-boss-who-will-learn-olivers-secret-next/
It’s going to be some interesting times for Oliver and Felicity both as friends, former romantic interests and co-workers. It’s an opportunity to move their relationship—lowercase r—into some new territory and get some scenes between Oliver and Felicity that are different than the ones we’ve seen on the show to date.

[Mellowyellow]

He likes his lower case! I still don't really get what he's trying to say, why the need for it to have upper or lower case! I'm going to defer to the rest of the forum! I give up trying to understand MG!  

[Midnight Lullaby]

1 minute ago, Mellowyellow said:

He likes his lower case! I still don't really get what he's trying to say, why the need for it to have upper or lower case! I'm going to defer to the rest of the forum! I give up trying to understand MG!  

Because he wants to lower expectations? I wonder if they are going to keep Oliver and Felicity low key at the beginning to surprise people with the wedding..

[Mellowyellow]

1 minute ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

Because he wants to lower expectations? I wonder if they are going to keep Oliver and Felicity low key at the beginning to surprise people with the wedding..

But his leads practically ran around handing out invites!

I think you may be onto something though! And I think SA is generally better at managing audience expectations than the EPs. Either that or he's a shipper and has gone on a shipping rampage! 

[apinknightmare]

Here's the only usage of "relationship with a capital "R" (that I can find) from him:

Quote

Laurel has a much more negative take on the vigilante, which obviously jeopardizes Oliver in a huge way. How does that wrinkle affect their relationship moving forward?

It's an added complication in an already complicated relationship because one thing we see in the season premiere is the fact that Tommy's death has really cast a long shadow on Oliver and Laurel's relationship -- and it's not even a relationship with a capital "R" because they slept together and then the earthquake happened and Tommy died.

Seems like he thinks that a lowercase "r" relationship is what two people who have romantic ~connections are in before they decide to be together as a couple, which then puts them in a capital "R" relationship. So...absent any context of the article minus someone's dictation of it, my guess is to expect O/F to be in that before capital "R" place where they aren't fully back together yet. 

Edited July 14, 2017 by apinknightmare

[Mellowyellow]

So we are back to the courting/wooing days? I can get behind that! Lots of cute flirty flirt like in 522! 

As long as they MOVE IT after a few eps! 

[Midnight Lullaby]

4 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

But his leads practically ran around handing out invites!

I think you may be onto something though! And I think SA is generally better at managing audience expectations than the EPs. Either that or he's a shipper and has gone on a shipping rampage! 

SA also told a woman at a con about 320 so he doesn't surprise me anymore, LOL

[bijoux]

4 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

So we are back to the courting/wooing days? I can get behind that! Lots of cute flirty flirt like in 522! 

As long as they MOVE IT after a few eps! 

SA did say something about, Not tonight, but soon, regarding 601, didn't he?

[Chaser]

That write up had issues. 

My guess is when we get back from hiatus Olicity is hypothetically dating each other. Taking it easy while adjustments are made (hopefully not Samantha died ones) and then they ramp it up before the wedding.

[insomniadreams88]

Whatever Oliver and Felicity's relationship - lower R or upper R - I hope they take into account the months that have passed and don't have some stupid reason why they may not have moved forward in that time other than "Hmm, well, in the past, we've skipped past all this stuff because of the summer, like between seasons 2 and 3 and 3 and 4, so we decided to just keep them where they were at the end of season 5 at the beginning of season 6 so you could see that ... and then surprise! Wedding by 609ish!" 

[Mellowyellow]

Just now, bijoux said:

SA did say something about, Not tonight, but soon, regarding 601, didn't he?

oooh yes!!!!

Okay it's all sort of making sense now!!! Haha I love it! Forum deduction at it's best! 

[Chaser]

I do hope that the Olicity line at SDCC isn't 'lowercase r'. I want full on Olicity wedding teases.

So Redemption Arc goes to Slade? Better then other options.

I don't understand anything with BS.

[Guest]

It's weird that SA and DR have been teasing a wedding and then MG comes along and dilutes all that excitement. Haha. So O/F are just dating casually? IDGI. Perhaps this is only for the first couple of episodes? IDK. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I didn't want them to rush into things because I wouldn't mind seeing some of the cute flirty flirt we missed before he asked her out on a date in s3 and the honeymoon stage we missed pre s4 but...they've already lived together and were close to marriage. It seems odd to go steps backwards but what do I know? As long as we see actual progress and they're not just ignored completely, then okay.

Edited July 14, 2017 by Guest

[tv echo]

As noted by @lemotomato and @Angel12d upthread, "family" was indeed a S4 theme as well...

WM on Season 6 theme (from yesterday's EW article):

Quote

Do you have a theme for the new season that you’re leaning into?
We do. We’re really leaning into this idea of family, and what it’s like to deal with your own biological family, but also to deal with your found family, and the natural emotional conflicts that arise when you have to choose between or balance both of them. Oliver and everybody else, all of our main characters will be grappling with that.

WM on Season 4 theme (page nos. may be off because PTV forums underwent a change since then):

Quote

-- On the theme for S4, WM: "We're exploring the idea of magic. But also, we're really exploring the idea of family. What does it mean - not just the Team Arrow family, but the Queen family, and Diggle's family, Felicity's family - we'll be expanding the univer - er, the characters to see what these people are like when they go home, see what their lives are like outside the 'Arrowcave'. And also what does it mean to be part of a family. And the difference between found family and biological family... what does that mean to each of our characters." (Unidentified video of media interview with MG and WM at SDCC 2015, page 161 of Behind the Mask thread; io9 article, page 64 of Starling City Times thread; and Eonline article, page 64 of Starling City Times thread)

ETA: I don't like that MG is teasing a "rivalry" between BS and Felicity (see teasers from TV Guide's SDCC cover issue posted on page 4 of New Spoilers thread).

Edited July 14, 2017 by tv echo

[Guest]

1 minute ago, tv echo said:

ETA: I don't like that MG is teasing a "rivalry" between BS and Felicity (see teasers from TV Guide's SDCC cover issue posted on page 4 of New Spoilers thread).

Rivalry is not the word I would have chosen but I expect there to be a bit of animosity between them considering BS did try to kill her and Felicity punched her in the face. LOL.

[Sunshine]

I think (and always have) that "lower case r" when describing Olicity is MG's way of saying it's not any more important than any of Oliver's other relationships on the show.  The show doesn't put the emphasis on the relationship like certain sections of fandom do.  Calm your expectations on one side and don't be upset on the other.

I am not expecting a lot of promo for the wedding.  

Edited July 14, 2017 by Sunshine

[Guest]

I have very low expectations anyway, always will, but it's just a little odd that MG's way of talking doesn't match up with SA and DR. I'll be interested to see how they tease/promote things in a more official way at SDCC rather than just talking to fans at a con. 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Mellowyellow]

MG is an odd one though. Sometimes he's like this and sometimes he goes on Tumblr to bask in the glory or something like he did when 519 and 520 came out. 

[tv echo]

Thanks for all the article links to MG's previous "lower case r" / "upper case r" quotes.  (I've added them to my collection.)

After reading those articles and MG's latest quote, my impression is that he uses the phrase "'lower case r' relationship" to refer to two people's relationship in general (whatever it may be or however it changes over time). But he uses the phrase "'upper case r' relationship" with respect to two people who are officially a couple in a romantic relationship.

So when he said that S6 would be the "latest chapter in their 'lover [lower?] case r' relationship," he's referring to Oliver & Felicity's relationship in general, since the day they met up until the present day. If he had used the phrase "upper case r" relationship, he would have been referring to their relationship as an official couple, which (a) would be premature because they weren't officially a couple at the end of S5 and (b) would be spoiling S6.

ETA: For example, in that Oct. 9, 2013 THR article, MG said (about Lauriver): "It's an added complication in an already complicated relationship because one thing we see in the season premiere is the fact that Tommy's death has really cast a long shadow on Oliver and Laurel's relationship -- and it's not even a relationship with a capital 'R' because they slept together and then the earthquake happened and Tommy died."

Edited July 14, 2017 by tv echo

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

I have very low expectations anyway, always will, but it's just a little odd that MG's way of talking doesn't match up with SA and DR. I'll be interested to see how they tease/promote things in a more official way at SDCC rather than just talking to fans at a con. 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

SA said at a con that Oliver and Felicity would take it slow, didn't he? I'm assuming he meant over the summer and in the first couple of eps, which would line up with MG talking about their lower case "r" (so stupid). Seems like SA and DR were giving people something to look forward to beyond that. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

SA said at a con that Oliver and Felicity would take it slow, didn't he? I'm assuming he meant over the summer and in the first couple of eps, which would line up with MG talking about their lower case "r" (so stupid). Seems like SA and DR were giving people something to look forward to beyond that. 

Yes, I think so. And they don't seem to be living together yet if Oliver has his own apartment so taking it slow sounds about right. 

This is still a huge improvement to what we were hearing this time last year. Haha. Finding out about Felicity's boyfriend still haunts me. LMAO.

Edited July 14, 2017 by Guest

[Mellowyellow]

Just now, Angel12d said:

Yes, I think so. And they don't seem to be living together yet if Oliver has his own apartment so that sounds about right. 

This is still a huge improvement than what we were hearing last year. Haha. Finding out about Felicity's boyfriend still haunts me. LMAO.

Oh I remember it like it was yesterday! *shudders* And then being on constant Canary Watch (Well I was!). Aiiiii! It's a miracle I survived S5!

MG tends to fluff around at unpleasant news. Perhaps he is beating around the bush so the dark side doesn't completely lose their sh@t when the wedding happens. 

[bethy]

I think MG's trying to be careful about the Olicity stuff for fear of backlash. Yes, SA and DR are talking up a wedding at cons, but a lot of those folks are big fans of Olicity, right? They know their audience. MG is, I assume, trying to manage the comic book/LL=BC4EVA people, too. It's discordant, but it makes sense to me on a PR front. 

[wonderwall]

I think it's obvious MG is less likely to spoil big things like a wedding or whatever than SA/DR. Based on past SDCCs it's pretty straight forward to me that the writers will mainly be teasing the first couple of episodes instead of the entire season. I mean the whole back to basics thing legit was only the case until Ragman/Human Target came around. 

And if MG is teasing a 'lower case r' relationship for the first couple of episodes, I'm not deterred or deflated. They likely wanted to come back and have them build back to a 'capital R' relationship for the audience's sake.

[Cleanqueen]

I do think they won't tease the wedding just yet because if we are to believe it's happening in the crossover(at the earliest) then that's already 5 months before it airs and it's too soon to spoil things that soon.

[Chaser]

SA will "joke" about it.

[Morrigan2575]

2 minutes ago, Chaser said:

SA will "joke" about it.

SA randomly starts humming the tune "going to the chapel and we're gonna get married, going to the chapel of love"

[statsgirl]

I'm reading it was "Don't freak out -- Olicity is not going to take over the show."  For the dude bros who are allergic to romance between two characters who don't both wear masks and leather.

[tv echo]

I'm going to try to get my own copy of TV Guide's SDCC cover issue this weekend (assuming they're out on news stands), so I can read for myself MG's quotes in context.