Trisha March 21, 2017 Share March 21, 2017 31 minutes ago, Angel12d said: Why does MG keep telling Jbuffyangel all this stuff though? It's a bit weird, IMO. It's SUPER weird but I also think it's a not bad method of damage control after this mess of a season. He knows he can't rely on the atrocious CW PR -- and even if he did, it seems like they are stuck with mandated talking points to be delivered during certain times of the season ("back to basics," Wild Dog, legacy, Dinah, etc.). So this allows him to get around the official channels/messaging and stoke the Olicity flames more than a month before the episode actually airs. (I know Screenr is promising Olicity scoop tomorrow, but I'm guessing most mainstream sites won't cover 520 until the week it airs.) And by going to a well-known shipper, it makes him look like he's extending an olive branch to that part of the fandom. It also mitigates the comic fan backlash that would happen if he tweeted this stuff himself. I can't imagine a lot of non-shippers are following her. Of course, he wouldn't have to do any of this twisty PR weirdness if there wasn't a need for damage control in the first place, but alas... 16 Link to comment
way2interested March 21, 2017 Share March 21, 2017 29 minutes ago, leopardprint said: The more spoilers I hear the more concerned I am that Felicity is going to end up apologizing for bailing. Does Oliver know that F's mom sent her dad away? The !Secret! was justified because Saint Samantha of the Baby Mamas insisted on it so I'm dreading a retcon where she also was the one deciding Oliver shouldn't be involved so we get more poor Oliver scenes. If they do want to bring William back he can physically be in 1 or 2 episodes and then just mentioned through phone calls and throwaway lines. I would be fine with the kid's return if it's part of a callback to when Felicity told Oliver about not just accepting things and he tells her what he wants for himself instead of things he does out of duty. I mean, there's nothing to apologize for at this point, at least how the show's presented it. She made a decision to leave him, he let her end it, and the end of the day they both felt it was one of the most miserable moments of their lives. She apologized for saying he could never change, he stated that he will never lie to her again (and apparently will apologize IIRC with one of the past spoilers about 520), but they're still not together ultimately because Felicity (and then later Oliver) decided that it was time to move on rather than try again. At this point what's needed is a talk just to see where they're each at (and to remind the audience, "Hey, this couple is a thing that we are likely to go back to, here's things we're addressing so it isn't coming out of nowhere!"), which is what 520 seems to be about. I think that the kid part of the conversation will just be like a bullet point on what they talk about and the "what she wants from Oliver" is actually the bigger aspect of the spoiler, since that's probably what would set up a reconnection/reunion, since Felicity ultimately has to be the one to take him back, not Oliver. 10 Link to comment
theOAfc March 21, 2017 Share March 21, 2017 They only time they bring up william both in convos or screen is for olicity related story. If thats not proof they never cared to explore Oliver being a dad but just wanted to use this for contrived drama, i dont know what is. Also regarding MG spoiling (more like teasing ) stuff in DMs,it makes him look desperate to be honest. He is a producer of a show, spreading stuff about the show via DMs to fans instead of simply trying to give a better tease in his official interviews. Link to comment
apinknightmare March 21, 2017 Share March 21, 2017 4 minutes ago, theOAfc said: Also regarding MG spoiling (more like teasing ) stuff in DMs,it makes him look desperate to be honest. He is a producer of a show, spreading stuff about the show via DMs to fans instead of simply trying to give a better tease in his official interviews. This stuff with JBA-exclusive teases is weird, but he's answered questions and other kinds of things in DMs for years now, since at least S3 if not before then - it isn't anything new. 1 Link to comment
Chaser March 21, 2017 Share March 21, 2017 Can you imagine if MG gives JBA the KC "announcement" again? LOL 2 Link to comment
Trisha March 21, 2017 Share March 21, 2017 So does this lend credence to the theory that the last line in 517 is Oliver telling Chase he's a "hunter" like in the comics? Link to comment
Angel12d March 21, 2017 Share March 21, 2017 Wasn't the Arrow also done back in 319? I'm assuming this is probably worse than that. 1 Link to comment
apinknightmare March 21, 2017 Share March 21, 2017 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Angel12d said: Wasn't the Arrow also done back in 319? I'm assuming this is probably worse than that. Considering he wasn't tortured in 19, I'm guessing yes. Edited March 21, 2017 by apinknightmare 1 Link to comment
looptab March 21, 2017 Share March 21, 2017 I'm lost..where does this "hunter" thing come from? As for JBA, IIRC it's not that MG gives her tidbits each week - didn't she say she had more info, and that she's the one choosing to release it this way? Link to comment
apinknightmare March 21, 2017 Share March 21, 2017 2 minutes ago, looptab said: As for JBA, IIRC it's not that MG gives her tidbits each week - didn't she say she had more info, and that she's the one choosing to release it this way? No, according to her he's giving them to her weekly and she's posting them as soon as she gets them. This is from her blog: Quote That’s all for now! Marc said he’d tease out more to me each week (because he’s the best). So, I’ll post them as soon as I get them Link to comment
Trisha March 21, 2017 Share March 21, 2017 4 minutes ago, looptab said: I'm lost..where does this "hunter" thing come from? In the comics when Green Arrow defeats Prometheus he says: Quote Prometheus’ specialty had always been an uncanny knowledge of his opponents – he studied our abilities, skills, and tendencies. He took my proficiency with the bow. He was well aware of my hand-to-hand combat training. But Prometheus never grasped that vital piece of information. He never knew that at my core, I wasn’t a hero. I was a hunter. Seems like a regression for Oliver to say that, but if 517 is him at his worst I guess it makes sense. Link to comment
Soulfire March 21, 2017 Share March 21, 2017 Concerning OTA, sniff. Concerning the newbies, eh. 1 Link to comment
looptab March 21, 2017 Share March 21, 2017 5 minutes ago, apinknightmare said: No, according to her he's giving them to her weekly and she's posting them as soon as she gets them. This is from her blog: Oh, okay, haha. 3 minutes ago, Trisha said: In the comics when Green Arrow defeats Prometheus he says: Seems like a regression for Oliver to say that, but if 517 is him at his worst I guess it makes sense. Thank you. :) Link to comment
Angel12d March 21, 2017 Share March 21, 2017 (edited) RIP Team Arrow doesn't have the "Original" in front of it so I'm good. ;P What was all that talk/story in s3 about when they said they were a team with or without Oliver though? I'm guessing with the team made up of more newer members and Felicity focused elsewhere, maybe it's harder to keep them together? IDK. Edited March 21, 2017 by Angel12d 2 Link to comment
insomniadreams88 March 21, 2017 Share March 21, 2017 But isn't 519 the one that's supposed to be Team Arrow vs. Team Felicity? So, "RIP Team Arrow" doesn't seem to last long. 1 Link to comment
way2interested March 21, 2017 Share March 21, 2017 If Prometheus' ultimate goal is to get Oliver to kill himself, then I'll admit that's at least a different way to take the season. 4 Link to comment
leopardprint March 21, 2017 Share March 21, 2017 Didnt Oliver quit S1, S3 and S5? So if they get S7 he will quit again? 10 Link to comment
catrox14 March 21, 2017 Share March 21, 2017 12 minutes ago, Trisha said: never knew that at my core, I wasn’t a hero. I was a hunter. Say what, a hunter? ?) Also those two things are not mutually exclusive. .(does this make him an honorary Winchester) 1 Link to comment
Thundercatmary March 21, 2017 Share March 21, 2017 If he decides he's done being Green Arrow then I could see a few things that would make him change his mind, namely Felicity in trouble with Helix possibly. Link to comment
Trisha March 21, 2017 Share March 21, 2017 So if "I'm shutting everything down" is how 517 ends and 518 is called Disbanded, then Felicity probably spends 518 going after Prometheus her own way using Helix, and then when Oliver tries to get the band back together in 519 with his own plan take Chase down she's all "Nah, I got this." This sounds like it could actually be...good? That's not a feeling I've experienced a lot this season. 6 Link to comment
ComicFan777 March 21, 2017 Share March 21, 2017 "WE HAVE TO CAPTURE DATA IN A 4-DIMENSIONAL ARRAY, WHICH COULD THEN BE PARSED USING A REAL-TIME ALGORITHM." Hmmm....I don't see how programmer speak of reading data in and having it analyzed by an algorithm is a spoiler - this just indicates Felicity, Curtis, or Helix minions are using a computer. 3 Link to comment
way2interested March 21, 2017 Share March 21, 2017 Just now, ComicFan777 said: "WE HAVE TO CAPTURE DATA IN A 4-DIMENSIONAL ARRAY, WHICH COULD THEN BE PARSED USING A REAL-TIME ALGORITHM." Hmmm....I don't see how programmer speak of reading data in and having it analyzed by an algorithm is a spoiler - this just indicates Felicity, Curtis, or Helix minions are using a computer. It's not. He's making fun of Arrow's techno speak. 2 Link to comment
Soulfire March 21, 2017 Share March 21, 2017 Dialogue from the end scene of Arrow 5x17: Kapiushon -- Quote JOHN: OK. I'M SORRY. I'VE JUST BEEN AT THIS SO LONG, I DON'T KNOW WHICH WAY IS UP. AND OLIVER'S BEEN GONE FOR 6 DAYS AND...AND WHAT? OLIVER? OH, MY GOD. JOHN: OLIVER? OLIVER: CHASE HAD ME-- UGHH AND HE LET ME GO. GO SLOW, MAN. OLIVER: IT'S OVER. JOHN: OLIVER, WE'RE GONNA GET THIS SON OF A BITCH FOR WHATEVER HE DID TO YOU. OLIVER: JOHN, IT'S OVER FOR ME. I DON'T WANT TO DO THIS ANYMORE. I'M SHUTTING EVERYTHING DOWN. https://www.reddit.com/r/arrow/comments/60q3f4/s5e17_kapiushon_episode_17_spoilers/ 1 Link to comment
Angel12d March 21, 2017 Share March 21, 2017 He was held for 6 days. YIKES. No wonder he's broken. 1 Link to comment
dtissagirl March 21, 2017 Share March 21, 2017 I'm gonna need this to segue into 518 being Oliver sitting alone in a room listening to a Smiths best of record. 5 Link to comment
ComicFan777 March 21, 2017 Share March 21, 2017 Quote It's not. He's making fun of Arrow's techno speak. Thanks for the context! Link to comment
Soulfire March 21, 2017 Share March 21, 2017 The secret Chase gets Oliver to confess: he killed for enjoyment. (I'll post this over in Spoilers Only too.) 1 Link to comment
insomniadreams88 March 21, 2017 Share March 21, 2017 6 days?! And Chase lets him go? I'm really worried about what he's going to do to Oliver that he decides to let him go. Link to comment
Chaser March 21, 2017 Share March 21, 2017 No wonder Felicity goes after Prometheus. I don't want to watch this episode. 4 Link to comment
Sunshine March 21, 2017 Share March 21, 2017 (edited) No wonder SA was concerned that if it wasn't done right the show might not be able to come back from it. It'll be interesting to see fan reaction. Edited March 21, 2017 by Sunshine 5 Link to comment
statsgirl March 21, 2017 Share March 21, 2017 (edited) So, I guess Chase broke Oliver. Except everyone but apparently the White House knows that you can't trust any information or confession given under torture. Quote YonkouProductions Whenever hacking and tech talk happens in arrow its like they're trying to act smart without knowing shit and sell you the analogy... Whew, that's a relief. I thought it was just me. I guess the spoiler part is that Felicity is at Helix because the Arrow cave doesn't have the computing capability for a 4-D array, whatever that might be. And why would you parse it (?) in a real time algorithm, which would negate the whole point of a 4-d array. Edited March 21, 2017 by statsgirl Link to comment
Trisha March 21, 2017 Share March 21, 2017 (edited) Well, my optimistic anticipation lasted all of 7 minutes. I hate this. Someone on Twitter last week suggested this would be the big secret Chase got out of him but I dismissed it because I couldn't imagine they would do this to their hero. Making Oliver someone who likes killing is a tough pill to swallow (especially in a season where it's already hard to find him likeable). It's like, "Hey, this guy you've been rooting for for five seasons is actually a serial killer! lolz" I guess this explains the SA quote that EW just posted about this week's episode, though: Quote If we’ve done our job with season 5 correctly, if we stick the landing on all of this, by the end of the season, our hope is that you will look at Oliver’s killing in a completely different light and look at it in a totally different way. And look at his motivations for killing in a different way, in a more complex, more nuanced way. My hope is the whole season will kind of answer that question if we pull it off. 12 minutes ago, Soulfire said: The secret Chase gets Oliver to confess: he killed for enjoyment. Edited March 21, 2017 by Trisha 1 Link to comment
calliope1975 March 21, 2017 Share March 21, 2017 I don't think this will be a fun episode to watch, but none of the spoilers I'm reading surprise me at all. Oliver "liked" killing? I don't know that we've ever seen serial killer joy from him in that, so I don't buy it. Did he kill some folks he probably should have let go? Sure, but that's not new news. He's going to need 75 Barry-type pep talks. Good God. Can we, just once, get the gorram hero of the show to fucking grow a spine and get some confidence? Can this be the last time he gives up? Well, I'm sure SA put his all into it, and if I can get home in time to live chat, we'll get through it together. :D 7 Link to comment
dtissagirl March 21, 2017 Share March 21, 2017 7 minutes ago, statsgirl said: I guess the spoiler part is that Felicity is at Helix because the Arrow cave doesn't have the computing capability for a 4-D array, whatever that might be. And why would you parse it (?) in a real time algorithm, which would negate the whole point of a 4-d array. The thing is, this makes very little sense, because a 4D array just means programming multiple arrays into the code [used to program in C a lifetime ago and we used 3D arrays all the time. Adding an extra array would mean more brackets and commas, but that's about it]. Which is what the OP was saying -- Arrow's technobable is just computer programing related words put together, but it doesn't mean anything. 1 Link to comment
Angel12d March 21, 2017 Share March 21, 2017 (edited) Yeah, I don't like the killing for enjoyment thing even though I had a feeling it would be something like that. I could maybe see that confession related to his time in Russia but not now. I hope it's building to something more than that. At least now we know why Oliver went back to killing in 501. Edited March 21, 2017 by Angel12d Link to comment
statsgirl March 21, 2017 Share March 21, 2017 I really, really hope this is done well. Although I'm not sanguine at all. From a psychological perspective, this makes a lot of sense. It's simpler to kill, to make things black and white instead of the complicated mess that is real life. It also ties in nicely to Felicity quitting because he was going to hurt a single father in 1xx15. Both Diggle and Felicity had to stop him from being too simplistic. It doesn't have to be the end of Oliver as a sympathetic character. It just makes him more complex. I"m really excited for this. No wonder Brian Ford Sullivan was excited about writing this episode. 5 Link to comment
insomniadreams88 March 21, 2017 Share March 21, 2017 This Oliver liking killing can be done well. But it's something that has to be done well, and that's why I'm worried about them pulling it off, not just in this episode but in the episodes to follow and going into next season because it's not something they can just brush aside once they put it out there. 4 Link to comment
leopardprint March 21, 2017 Share March 21, 2017 (edited) They've shown previously that Oliver if not liking than at least not being especially concerned with killing (poor Billy) but they've also shown that he doesn't have to kill. Didn't they sort of do this in the Hong Kong flashbacks when he kills the general? I guess they will show him indescriminately hunting down sketchy people in the Russia flashbacks. ETA: I find it darkly humorous if Felicity has no time for mopey Oliver cause she's getting her revenge on. Edited March 21, 2017 by leopardprint typos 1 Link to comment
wonderwall March 21, 2017 Share March 21, 2017 (edited) I think the part where Oliver confesses that he likes to kill people is obviously something he was pushed to say. If any of you watched Making a Murderer it's pretty much like the Brendan Dassey situation where the 'victim' per se, just says what needs to be said. I think it's obvious from this: Edited March 21, 2017 by wonderwall 13 Link to comment
theOAfc March 21, 2017 Share March 21, 2017 Oliver was never shown to enjoy killing people and he very easily embraced the no killing policy once Tommy died so him breaking like that and believing that he kills because he likes it is stupid imo. Especially if he breaks, in just one episode. Then again,the show is repeating the same tropes. Every season he wonders if he is a killer or a hero and if he has light or darkness inside him,its irritating at this point. 10 Link to comment
tv echo March 21, 2017 Share March 21, 2017 (edited) Under intense torture and interrogation, prisoners and suspects have been known to confess to beliefs that they don't believe and to committing crimes that they didn't commit. So I just don't believe that Oliver undertook his crusade because he enjoys killing, period. It's not so much Oliver confessing a secret, but confessing a secret fear. Probably by the end of this season, he'll realize the difference. Edited March 21, 2017 by tv echo 20 Link to comment
Mellowyellow March 21, 2017 Share March 21, 2017 5 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said: Instead of being excited I'm now bracing for that conversation. Why, why couldn't have Flashpoint erased this awful storyline?!?! Oliver could have lied about something else other than a kid. This x 1000000000 Or they could have had the kid die in flash point! I do not want to be subjected to crayon eating William again! 1 Link to comment
statsgirl March 21, 2017 Share March 21, 2017 25 minutes ago, dtissagirl said: The thing is, this makes very little sense, because a 4D array just means programming multiple arrays into the code [used to program in C a lifetime ago and we used 3D arrays all the time. Adding an extra array would mean more brackets and commas, but that's about it]. Which is what the OP was saying -- Arrow's technobable is just computer programing related words put together, but it doesn't mean anything. I thought if it was 4-D it would involve studying the phenomenon through time, which makes a real-time algorithm meaningless. But I admit I know much more about psychology and regression equations than computing. 1 Link to comment
tangerine95 March 21, 2017 Share March 21, 2017 I'm not really a fan of the killing because he enjoys it thing but I'll wait and see how they explain it and deal with it because it's just hard for me to believe they'll expect people to root for a hero who simply enjoys killing and that's why he does it.Especially after the whole light and hope stuff they've been pushing Oliver towards for seasons and I don't think they gave that up. It could be that it's something that isn't really true or at least that simple but Prometheus actually makes him believe it in an effort to get him to see himself as the villain. Doesn't make sense for me that it's true because they've only ever shown how Oliver struggles and hates the fact that he used to kill. And in season 1 when he did it he was supposed to be at his darkest mindset right after the island and bratva. 3 Link to comment
way2interested March 21, 2017 Share March 21, 2017 (edited) Just now, wonderwall said: I think the part where Oliver confesses that he likes to kill people is obviously something he was pushed to say. If any of you watched Making a Murderer it's pretty much like the Brendan Dassey situation where the 'victim' per se, just say what needs to be said. I think it's obvious from this: I was thinking something like that too. Not necessarily saying it to get Chase to let him go or anything, but rationalizing it in his head in a way that would get himself to think he either deserves it or that it's the part of him that Chase says is in him. Like a heightened, emotional whisper in his head rather than an actual secret. ETA: Or pretty much what TV Echo said. Edited March 21, 2017 by way2interested 1 Link to comment
Trisha March 21, 2017 Share March 21, 2017 12 minutes ago, statsgirl said: From a psychological perspective, this makes a lot of sense. It's simpler to kill, to make things black and white instead of the complicated mess that is real life. It also ties in nicely to Felicity quitting because he was going to hurt a single father in 1xx15. Both Diggle and Felicity had to stop him from being too simplistic. It doesn't have to be the end of Oliver as a sympathetic character. It just makes him more complex. I get the compartmentalizing/keeping things black and white in order to do the things he had to do (similar to what Talia advised him about constructing the Arrow persona). But I think being detached/indifferent/having a simplistic approach to killing is way different than *liking* it. That's a whole other ballgame that's above and beyond PTSD. It reminds me of Dexter, who used vigilante-ing as an outlet for his murderous desires. I hope it makes him a sympathetic character but something similar happened on Poldark where they took such a dark turn with the main character that I could never see him as a hero after that. At the end of the day, I hope this "I liked it" line is more about something that Chase planted in his head after 6 days of brutal torture, not something we're supposed to actually believe about a guy who we're meant to root for (and who we're meant to root for Felicity to reunite with). But SA's quote in EW about how this will recontextualize Oliver's killing worries me. Link to comment
leopardprint March 21, 2017 Share March 21, 2017 4 minutes ago, wonderwall said: I think the part where Oliver confesses that he likes to kill people is obviously something he was pushed to say. If any of you watched Making a Murderer it's pretty much like the Brendan Dassey situation where the 'victim' per se, just say what needs to be said. I think it's obvious from this: Laurel, Tommy and Moira didn't die because of his S1 killing. Even Prometheus doesn't continuity right. 4 Link to comment
apinknightmare March 21, 2017 Share March 21, 2017 2 minutes ago, leopardprint said: Laurel, Tommy and Moira didn't die because of his S1 killing. Even Prometheus doesn't continuity right. I think he just brought them up as part of his whole "you infect every life you touch" spiel. Link to comment
Recommended Posts