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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

Spoiler Discussion Thread

Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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Guest

Guest

(edited)

Haha. See.

So if Oliver gets kidnapped, is Susan still kidnapped? LOL.

Edited by Guest
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Trisha

Trisha

Morrison is the last name of the guy who create Prometheus in the comics, so I'm guessing that's the origin of his name and it has nothing to do with connecting to any S1 character. I don't think there was anyone on the list with the last name Morrison? 

So will Oliver and Susan be held hostage at the same time? 

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

So, is he gonna get kidnapped and taken to a third location, or taken to where Susan's being held, and the "betrayal" part of this mess kicks in?

I just assumed that whole Susan thing would be resolved before the end of the episode. Did i miss a spoiler tweet?

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Guest

Guest

(edited)

I'm sorry but this is not surprising at all. Seriously. 

And I'm guessing this is where Felicity joining Helix is to help save Oliver? Maybe she second-guesses joining during the episode but recommits properly when she learns Oliver is kidnapped.

Edited by Guest
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Trisha

Trisha

(edited)
3 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I just assumed that whole Susan thing would be resolved before the end of the episode. Did i miss a spoiler tweet?

There was talk that Susan's kidnapping would last more than one episode, but I'm not sure if it was confirmed. If he says this to Oliver after he kidnaps him, than she's still being held:

Edited by Trisha
added tweet
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Velocity23

Velocity23

Just now, Trisha said:

There was talk that Susan's kidnapping would last more than one episode, but I'm not sure if it was confirmed. 

Wasnt that fan speculation because Susan isnt confirmed for 5x17. 

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theOAfc

theOAfc

(edited)
2 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

I'm sorry but this is not surprising at all. Seriously. 

And I'm guessing this is where Felicity joining Helix is to help save Oliver? Maybe she second-guesses joining during the episode but recommits properly when she learns Oliver is kidnapped.

Its pretty predictable. Prometheus early identity reveal had many thought the actual main villain would be someone else. 

Edited by theOAfc
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

2 minutes ago, theOAfc said:

Its pretty predictable. Prometheus early identity reveal had many thought the actual main villain would be someone else. 

Isn't he still the main villain, just with an accomplice and a different name?

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Sunshine

Sunshine

Could Malcolm Merlyn be his father?  He could not defeat  Oliver physically so he plays mental games with him? He's back, at least in flashbacks, beginning in 5.17. He could be working with Talia.

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theOAfc

theOAfc

(edited)
2 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Isn't he still the main villain, just with an accomplice and a different name?

I think the recent spoilers imply the main villain is Talia and Promy is just her own sidekick doing the muscle job. Unless im wrong with the interpretation. She is after all both in flashbacks and will be in present so Oliver has more personal connection to her. 

Edited by theOAfc
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

1 minute ago, thegirlsleuth said:

Are they really going to elevate Susan's importance is Oliver's life to the same as Moira, Shado, and Laurel?

I guess maybe it's more of a "these people are dead because they were in your life, and she's gonna die because of you too" kinda thing? At least I hope so, because talk about REALLY skipping an VERY IMPORTANT PART OF THE STORY!

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lemotomato

lemotomato

(edited)

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the comparison is just to emphasize that she'll be dead because of him, just like these other people that are dead because of him. The writers don't always think about unintended implications of the dialogue. 

Edited by lemotomato
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Guest

Guest

(edited)

But if Oliver is kidnapped, when is he gonna have time to dump Susan? Haha.

Seriously, I'm gonna need him to end that relationship, not the other way around. 

6 minutes ago, thegirlsleuth said:

Are they really going to elevate Susan's importance is Oliver's life to the same as Moira, Shado, and Laurel?

I actually didn't read it that way. It just came across like she'll die because she's associated with him not because she's super important. 

Edited by Guest
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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

I feel like we're getting a lot of Tommy mentions lately. 

3 minutes ago, thegirlsleuth said:

Are they really going to elevate Susan's importance is Oliver's life to the same as Moira, Shado, and Laurel?

They better not. If they even try to ... rage. 

Maybe Oliver shows up to wherever he thinks Susan's being held, only she's not there - she already sided with Prometheus/Talia? - and then he ends up being the one in trouble. Cue Felicity joining Helix to save Oliver?

And if Susan does in fact betray Oliver, he really shouldn't be surprised considering she went from "you should be impeached" to "sure, I'll keep your secret," in the same episode, after finding out he killed his ex-fiancee's BF. But he'll probably forget that, like he forgot her telling him that she was going to use the information she found on him, so he'll be completely shocked by a betrayal if it happens. 

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Trisha

Trisha

4 minutes ago, thegirlsleuth said:

I hope Morrison has some in-show importance and not just comic importance. 

On Reddit @YonkouProductions confirmed that Simon is Claybourne's son. I don't think they're going to do anymore to tie him into season 1 which is lame.

Also, more motivation for why Talia is going after Oliver:

 

yonkou.png

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

5 minutes ago, theOAfc said:

I think the recent spoilers imply the main villain is Talia and Promy is just her own sidekick doing the muscle job. Unless im wrong with the interpretation. She is after all both in flashbacks and will be in present so Oliver has more personal connection to her. 

Could be - maybe I'm looking too much into "working with" instead of "working for."

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lexicon

lexicon

These are the people who had a vision of Shado appear and call Poppy Oliver's "love" when nothing onscreen ever suggested that before or after that scene, so them elevating SW's importance won't be a shock.

Also we've had Sara break up with Oliver before the s2 I love you reveal and Ray break up with Felicity before the sex in NP so at this point I'm expecting Susie to be the one to end things with OQ and I ain't even mad because that's just how they do things around here. On the bright side maybe they'll continue the trend and follow it up with a similarly momentous Oliver x Felicity event. Look at me being all optimistic 

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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10 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

But if Oliver is kidnapped, when is he gonna have time to dump Susan? Haha.

Seriously, I'm gonna need him to end that relationship, not the other way around. 

I actually didn't read it that way. It just came across like she'll die because she's associated with him not because she's super important. 

Oliver has never ended a relationship on this show.  I doubt they'll start now.

As for the kidnapped thing, sounds like that's the cliffhanger. I imagine all of the Susan stuff will be handled during the episode. 

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Guest

Guest

Just now, Morrigan2575 said:

Oliver has never ended a relationship on this show.  I doubt they'll start now.

As for the kidnapped thing, sounds like that's the cliffhanger. I imagine all of the Susan stuff will be handled during the episode. 

I know. I know he won't end it. That's what annoys me.

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tv echo

tv echo

So this season, we now have...

  • "Tina Boland" - now revealed to be Dinah Drake, a/k/a New Black Canary?
  • "Adrian Chase" - now revealed to be Simon Morrison*, a/k/a Prometheus.

(* Justin Claybourne's illegitimate son)

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Trisha

Trisha

Oliver describing Ra's as "an honorable man" is just so...off. What are you doing, show?!

I saw someone on Twitter speculating that the original kidnap victim was probably supposed to be Thea but they had to do a quick rewrite once they realized they'd only have WH for a limited amount of time, for whatever reason. Makes WM's "someone he cares about deeply" comment make a lot more sense (since she never actually said Susan's name in that clip). 

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Guest

Guest

Ra's was honorable?!! Did Oliver forget he skewered his sister with a sword?!! WTF. My god, they're making Oliver look so dumb. Stop it.

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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

1 minute ago, Trisha said:

Oliver describing Ra's as "an honorable man" is just so...off. What are you doing, show?!

I saw someone on Twitter speculating that the original kidnap victim was probably supposed to be Thea but they had to do a quick rewrite once they realized they'd only have WH for a limited amount of time, for whatever reason. Makes WM's "someone he cares about deeply" comment make a lot more sense (since she never actually said Susan's name in that clip). 

Yeah, saw that spec, too, and it kinda makes sense to me with the whole Susan pivot. If the last several episodes have been messy because of rewrites, this could explain it. 

I'm rolling my eyes at Ra's being "an honorable man" but it's not anything new the show is selling. They kinda tried to portray that in S3, which is why Oliver gave Ra's an "honorable" death complete with prayers.

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

8 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

I know. I know he won't end it. That's what annoys me.

He probably won't end it even if she betrays him. The way they're writing Oliver right now, he'd probably defend her. "Well, Prometheus had her. She had no choice." 

3 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Does Oliver think her father is someone else? Because Ra's WAS a psychopath OMG.

Remember, S1-4 only happened when they feel like remembering they did. Stabbed his sister? Made his daughter marry him? Tried to wipe out all of Star City with a virus? What are you talking about? Oliver can't remember any of that because of this:

1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

I hope this is just part of a season-long arc about Oliver having a traumatic brain injury.

How sad is it that this would make complete sense? 

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Guest

Guest

Some things Ra's did:

  • Murdered a ton of people dressed as the Arrow.
  • Stabbed Thea, left her for dead.
  • Forced his lesbian daughter to marry Oliver.
  • Planned to release a virus to kill everyone in Star City.

Oliver: Look, he's so honorable! 

Me: You're a dumbass. 

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ComicFan777

ComicFan777

(edited)

Everything's not making sense right now - I'm almost expecting at the end of the season, we see that the last 5 years was just Oliver hallucinating everything and he wakes up at the end of the season when the fishermen boat comes by and pulls him off the island barely conscious.

Edited by ComicFan777
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Mellowyellow

Mellowyellow

Ra's shipped Olicity and gave Oliver an amazing hotel room with candles to get it on with Felicity. Basically told Felicity to go bang Oliver too. Maybe that's why Oliver thinks he's honorable.

That's my reasoning anyway. 

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statsgirl

statsgirl

I can see Slade having a son at 18, which would fit Chase who is around 32.

If Oliver gets kidnapped at the end of the episode, that must be the favour Felicity wants from Helix.  Whew, that's a relief. I was afraid she was going to ask for Susan.

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Guest

Guest

7 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

He probably won't end it even if she betrays him. The way they're writing Oliver right now, he'd probably defend her. "Well, Prometheus had her. She had no choice." 

I'm starting to doubt she'll even betray him. She'll probably just end things because being with him is too dangerous/complicated. Lame.

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looptab

looptab

2 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

Felicity joined Helix as a result of what Prometheus has done to save the team AND Oliver? LOL, that legit did not happen. Did she forget that Felicity joined at the end of last ep?

I thought she meant that in the episode Felicity will use Helix to help Oliver, but I might be wrong - didn't pay that much attention, haha.

About Oliver's opinion on Ra's, I choose to believe that he's trying to play Talia and he doesn't actually think what he says, LOL.

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

Just now, statsgirl said:

If Oliver gets kidnapped at the end of the episode, that must be the favour Felicity wants from Helix.  Whew, that's a relief. I was afraid she was going to ask for Susan.

I can see the photos and clips we've gotten of Felicity happy at Helix being from when she's first introduced to them. Then they want a favor and she says no. Then Oliver gets into trouble, and she's willing to do what they want to save him. Cue even more trouble. 

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theOAfc

theOAfc

2 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

I'm starting to doubt she'll even betray him. She'll probably just end things because being with him is too dangerous/complicated. Lame.

Yes,thats what i believe. She will basically dump him.

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calliope1975

calliope1975

16 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Does Oliver think her father is someone else? Because Ra's WAS a psychopath OMG.

Well, I guess SA can expect some more 'why are you a pod person/dumbass/too stupid to live" comments that will irritate him. Just remember, there's a plaaaannnnnnn. 

I'm super petty, but I love that this dude is straight spoiling this episode and TPTB's big "shockers."

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ladylaw99

ladylaw99

4 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

I'm starting to doubt she'll even betray him. She'll probably just end things because being with him is too dangerous/complicated. Lame.

Kinda like their relationship - Lame

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

1 minute ago, calliope1975 said:

I'm super petty, but I love that this dude is straight spoiling this episode and TPTB's big "shockers."

Oh, me too. Every time we get another spoiler, I'm just like, "tell me more, tell me more!" (Cue Grease.)

7 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

I'm starting to doubt she'll even betray him. She'll probably just end things because being with him is too dangerous/complicated. Lame.

You're probably right. Maybe then we can have a repeat of Oliver wondering if he can be in a relationship or if he should be alone.

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Trisha

Trisha

18 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Yeah, saw that spec, too, and it kinda makes sense to me with the whole Susan pivot. If the last several episodes have been messy because of rewrites, this could explain it. 

I really feel like there is some major behind-the-scenes stuff that we just don't know about and the writers have had to scramble a couple of times to pivot things. This season just feels exceptionally messy. 

Also, has this been its most spoiled season yet? I remember the paps ruining the 'who's in the grave' mystery last year, but it feels like this is the first season where multiple big plot points/twists have been consistently spoiled.

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