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Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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Trisha

Trisha

Stephen is getting lots of comments on his wall about how Oliver looks like a moron for trusting Susan and he replied to one: "Harsh words!! :) Based off this season so far and what we know, Oliver has been wrong to trust Evelyn. And that's it so far." Sounds like he's sticking with his statement that she won't end up being Isabel 2.0? Sigh. 

insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

Just now, Trisha said:

Stephen is getting lots of comments on his wall about how Oliver looks like a moron for trusting Susan and he replied to one: "Harsh words!! :) Based off this season so far and what we know, Oliver has been wrong to trust Evelyn. And that's it so far." Sounds like he's sticking with his statement that she won't end up being Isabel 2.0? Sigh. 

Um, no. Based off what Oliver knows, fine, I guess, ignoring 503, the Russian vodka and the "hey, tell me about the island even though we just met a couple months ago and my job is to report on you." But based off what "we" (and by "we" I mean everyone else) know? Yeah, wrong to trust Susan. 

Maybe he honestly thinks that if he says stuff like this enough times, it'll be a shock when Susan tries to expose him? 

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

2 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Maybe he honestly thinks that if he says stuff like this enough times, it'll be a shock when Susan tries to expose him? 

I think it's more like he knows this makes Oliver look like a moron, so he's preemptively telling people that it's okay because she's not going to screw him over in the end so they feel better about him being a moron. I'd love to be wrong about that - if she doesn't do anything other than get the ball rolling on the authorities coming after Green Arrow, how pointless.

(Blackmail her, Felicity. Pls.)

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weathered1

weathered1

At this point, in terms of the effect on how people view Oliver and his brain (or lack thereof), it may not even matter what, if anything, Susan does. She was introduced being shady as hell and nothing that we've seen so far has changed that. So for the entirety of her run and this "relationship," all the audience sees is Oliver being incredibly dim and easily led, which simply should not be the case at this point in his character arc. I know the writers get a lot of grief - and rightfully so, most of the time - but in terms of Susan and this "relationship," the writing is inexcusably atrocious. When you go "all in" with a story that makes the hero of the piece look dumber than a wet box of hair that's been repeatedly run over by a semi, that's a problem. Prometheus aside, this season's big bad appears to be the writers, imo.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Now that I think about it though, if the reason why the cops come after Green Arrow for Billy's murder is because of the piece Susan writes on it (which seems likely), even if she hasn't put 2+2 together about Oliver being the Green Arrow, she at least suspects it, so that seems malicious. Even if she never bothers to actually connect the dots publicly that Oliver is the Green Arrow and was lying about his time away she's still royally screwed him. 

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MaisyDaisy

MaisyDaisy

2 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

The only way he comes out of this not looking like a moron in my eyes is if he is playing her.  Even if she doesn't betray him because "genuine feelings" I will continue to see him as a moron.    

But even then, if her slept with her while playing her- gross. "Hey here is a convenient vagina, yeah she is hella shady, and I am totally keeping my enemy close, but while I'm here....."

they can't redeem this for me with Oliver, he comes across dumb in any situation. Having Thea go all Moira on Susan would however go some way to pleasing me.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Just now, Sunshine said:

I guess we don't know yet though if they come after Green Arrow because of Susan's write-up or because of Prometheus's manipulations.  He has a police connection unless they have dropped that thread. 

I guess. Chase said he got rid of the evidence though, but I suppose Prometheus might have a copy of some evidence somewhere. 

Seems like his MO would be to give the evidence to Susan to use against him though, instead of just turning it over to the police.

insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

7 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Now that I think about it though, if the reason why the cops come after Green Arrow for Billy's murder is because of the piece Susan writes on it (which seems likely), even if she hasn't put 2+2 together about Oliver being the Green Arrow, she at least suspects it, so that seems malicious. Even if she never bothers to actually connect the dots publicly that Oliver is the Green Arrow and was lying about his time away she's still royally screwed him. 

Maybe she even goes to Felicity since she knows Felicity was dating Billy and that gets Felicity looking into her and realizing just how shady she is?

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weathered1

weathered1

Yeah, even if he's playing her - and that's a big if - it's still gross and still makes him a total dumbass because that's one hell of a risky game he's playing, given how it could potentially negatively impact not only him, but everyone around him. 

Any way you look at it, this story does a lot of damage to Oliver, and negates a lot of the mental and emotional growth that should've resulted from all that he's experienced and witnessed over the years. 

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calliope1975

calliope1975

(edited)

As I haven't seen every episode, has Oliver expressed any kind of point of view that he knows dating a reporter might not be the best idea for a vigilante? (Same question would go for Felicity about Mayo but he's deady dead dead so it's moot at this point.) If Oliver showed any awareness that maybe it's not the smartest, but Susie's just so gosh darn awesomesauce, perhaps people wouldn't think he's such an idiot. 

ETA: Though, maybe it would be worse if he knew it was a bad idea and did it anyway. Yeah, I don't think there's any way to get around this being a boneheaded decision. 

Edited by calliope1975
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Sunshine

Sunshine

2 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I guess. Chase said he got rid of the evidence though, but I suppose Prometheus might have a copy of some evidence somewhere. 

Seems like his MO would be to give the evidence to Susan to use against him though, instead of just turning it over to the police.

Makes sense or Susan bribed the ME for a look at his report. 

Sunshine

Sunshine

(edited)
3 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

As I haven't seen every episode, has Oliver expressed any kind of point of view that he knows dating a reporter might not be the best idea for a vigilante? (Same question would go for Felicity about Mayo but he's deady dead dead so it's moot at this point.) If Oliver showed any awareness that maybe it's not the smartest, but Susie's just so gosh darn awesomesauce, perhaps people wouldn't think he's such an idiot. 

I've seen them all and I don't recall any such scene.  There have been plenty of people warning him though -  Thea & Lance multiple times and Felicity at least once.  He just kind of shrugs them off so I won't be surprised if the show says "See. He was right to trust her."

Edited by Sunshine
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

2 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

ETA: Though, maybe it would be worse if he knew it was a bad idea and did it anyway. Yeah, I don't think there's any way to get around this being a boneheaded decision. 

He hasn't expressed any sort of thought that dating a reporter is a bad idea. Thea and Lance both made it clear that they thought Oliver dating Susan in particular was not smart, but he did it anyway.

Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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11 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Now that I think about it though, if the reason why the cops come after Green Arrow for Billy's murder is because of the piece Susan writes on it (which seems likely), even if she hasn't put 2+2 together about Oliver being the Green Arrow, she at least suspects it, so that seems malicious. Even if she never bothers to actually connect the dots publicly that Oliver is the Green Arrow and was lying about his time away she's still royally screwed him. 

That's got to be it, right? Why else setup all those dots?

The question I have is how do they try and play this while claiming she's not Isabel and has genuine feelings? I mean that could totally be WM bull crap but, if it's not? Are they going to try and convince the audience that Susan sleeping with Oliver thinking he's the GA and writing a story about how GA killed Malone is good/right? So far there's nothing in show that tells me Susan has genuine feelings for Oliver. All the post coital scene told me was that she was doing an investigation.

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Cleanqueen

Cleanqueen

I truly believe he knows what she's up to. She double crossed his sister, then brought up Russia around him, then noticed how she was basically extra clingy around him, desperate to date him. He then visits her apartment and she serves him russian vodka and basically keeps bringing up the fact that they haven't slept together. And when they do sleep together she wants to talk about his scars and his time on the island. I am going to lean with Stephen basically giving us a hint that perhaps he isnt being played here but that he's the one doing the playing.

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Sunshine

Sunshine

1 minute ago, Chaser said:

There is absolutely no way Oliver comes out of this relationship unscathed. I just hope I can shake off the stupid to enjoy the Olicity reunion.

Moving to something that isn't stupid: is Helix just Bad or is it Prometheus Bad?

Helix is probably worse than Prometheus.  Prometheus has one target - Oliver Queen - although there has been collateral damage.

Helix is probably more like The List bad but on a global scale.  Originally Malcolm Merlyn, Robert Queen & Cohorts were pressuring/blackmailing people into helping out the city.  There was an element they wanted out.  Robert Queen got involved when he accidentally killed an inspector.  Malcolm helped cover it up and used that knowledge against him and then Moira to force them to do his bidding.   Eventually it just turned into a power/land grab by Malcolm.  There was a ton of collateral damage.       

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

1 hour ago, Chaser said:

Post-Coital scene for both Oliver and Felicity with their Temps.

Olicity is getting the full scene right?

Surely this deserves a "Come on!"?  Even if it takes a while to get that scene.  

1 hour ago, HighHopes said:

So. 2x05 = Canary. 2x06 = Russia/Oliver bangs a woman who should not be trusted. 2x13 = Oliver bangs the Canary. 2x23= O/F "I love you". 
5x11= Canary. 5x12 = Russia/Oliver bangs a woman who should not be trusted. 5x19 = Oliver bangs the Canary?? And then 6x06 (or 6x09 since 13/23 and 19/09?) = O/F Reunion? 

We don't have to be completely faithful to the timeline.  ;)

1 hour ago, Chaser said:

I'm pretty sure the close up of Reporters face on his chest was her 'feelings' look.

Yikes.  Are you being sincere?  I was thinking she was kind of expressionless as she was weirdly rubbing the tattoo.  

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

3 minutes ago, Belinea said:

I guess at this point everyone is just glad he hasn't told her yet he is the GA. Because nowadays he usually does that after 4.12 seconds of meeting someone.

True. A Hub City reporter could have easily scooped Susan last week. And then she'd be nowhere with the information she got at the end of this episode. 

weathered1

weathered1

re: the dating a reporter thing - He's supposed to be vigilante extraordinaire at this point, and sure, the secret part of "secret identity" is largely a joke nowadays, but even taking Susan's actions thus far out of the equation, that someone in his position, doing what he's doing with his life, would even briefly entertain the notion of having anything to do with a freaking reporter (!!) is such nonsensical crap. It's truly laughable, or it would be if it didn't make the show's main/title character such a mentally deficient buffoon. 

If they wanted to have a reporter sniffing around this season - fine. If they wanted him to have a love interest for however long, for whatever reason (either shipstalling for one pairing, or giving another pairing time to build [depending on one's POV], or both) - whatever. But both of those things should never, ever have been in the form of the same person. Whether he knows what she's up to or not doesn't even matter because the effect of this storyline has been been to make him look so utterly devoid of common sense that one has to wonder how he even ties his own shoes without assistance.

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Guest

Guest

Well, I still feel like Oliver looks like he'd rather be anywhere else than with Susan. He just looks so uninterested, like he's only with her because why not? Nothing better to do. LOL. So I'd actually believe it if he was playing her. But if that's true it's gross that he slept with her so IDK. 

The supposed "genuine feelings" is throwing me. I just don't believe it?

bijoux

bijoux

2 hours ago, Sunshine said:

Helix is probably worse than Prometheus.  Prometheus has one target - Oliver Queen - although there has been collateral damage.

Helix is probably more like The List bad but on a global scale.  Originally Malcolm Merlyn, Robert Queen & Cohorts were pressuring/blackmailing people into helping out the city.  There was an element they wanted out.  Robert Queen got involved when he accidentally killed an inspector.  Malcolm helped cover it up and used that knowledge against him and then Moira to force them to do his bidding.   Eventually it just turned into a power/land grab by Malcolm.  There was a ton of collateral damage.       

This has some real potential. It's sort of pushing Felicity into the Queens' shoes with the Undertaking and seeing how she is going to react to it. Actually, it sounds excellent. Which is why I'm not going to get my hopes up too much about it.

The promo for 513 looks extremely boring.

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Midnight Lullaby

Midnight Lullaby

Watching the last scene and thinking about Wendy's comments about them developing genuine feelings I'm super confused. I mean they could make it happen at the last moment and make her not betray Oliver but at the moment it looks like she is only sleeping with him hoping he is more talkative after sex.

And SA saying she won't be Isabel 2.0 could be that this time he will have the upper hand but what could exactly be his plan? I remember on GG Nate slept with some woman to find blackmail material but he was showed looking in her drawers so there was a point in being close to her. Here Oliver is just dating her. Unless they want to surprise the audience and reveal he has been looking into her all along but why risk to convince the audience your lead character is a dumbass?

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

34 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

And SA saying she won't be Isabel 2.0 could be that this time he will have the upper hand but what could exactly be his plan? I remember on GG Nate slept with some woman to find blackmail material but he was showed looking in her drawers so there was a point in being close to her. Here Oliver is just dating her. Unless they want to surprise the audience and reveal he has been looking into her all along but why risk to convince the audience your lead character is a dumbass?

If this is an audience gotcha! set up by Marc Guggenheim, that alone totally explains why it's so dumbtastic.

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Sunshine

Sunshine

(edited)

I think the lie is that Prometheus is not revealed in the next couple of episodes which means he is revealed. In that context the IMDb cast listing for 5.16 "Checkmate" is more interesting. 

Here's a twist on the reporter. She is working for Prometheus but falls for Oliver so she gives Oliver information on Prometheus. Revealing him in 5.16 could simply mean they know who the enemy is or he's just a pawn in Talia or Malcolm's plan.

Edited by Sunshine
insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

I'm going to go with the fact that Susan met with her PI after she slept with Oliver as a sign that she is 100% shady and not going to decide not to do anything because of "feelings." They could have easily flipped those scenes - had her meet with the PI while Oliver was out of town, then sleep with him and maybe then try to make us believe that she was torn between exposing him and not. The fact that they didn't? She's still all about that story. 

I do have to wonder if she puts the pieces together about who else is on the team. It wouldn't be difficult, just like everyone should have figured it out once they revealed LL was BC. "Hmm, who does LL hang out with? And how many people do we know were on the team? Probably someone on computers too, and hmm, one of LL's friends went to MIT..." Same thing if Oliver is revealed as GA. "Hmm, suspiciously, this random kid showed up to help Lance prep for my interview and then talked to me, and the new group of people hanging out this year are..." Maybe that'll happen in 514?

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Sunshine

Sunshine

Do we know if Prometheus knows Oliver is Green Arrow before Tobias Church tells him? The only people associated with Oliver on the target board was Lance, Diggle & Thea until Evelyn came along.  It's possible that he still needs intel.  

Why would she need to investigate anything in Russia if she's associated with Talia?

If she's really just trying to get a story what's the point if she doesn't do an expose because feelings.

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