Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Velocity23]

Just now, Proteus said:

Has Willa Holland filmed at all since the Christmas episode that aired?

yes she did. 

[statsgirl]

The biggest problem with Susan is not that she looks like two other new characters (which she does and if MM were taller she'd look like her too), or that she's dating one part of my OTP, or even that she's mean to the other part of my OTP, or that she's investigating Oliver, or that she tried to stab Thea in the back, or even that she makes Oliver look stupid.

The biggest part is that she makes him look mean and petty if he's going to let her go after Lance who started drinking again after his daughter died and is just now out of rehab.  And self-centered if he's not aware that she's doing it.

[Trisha]

27 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

But "she's just doing her job!" I swear, if Oliver says anything that makes it seem like what Susan's doing is okay... I will have so many problems and it would be very hard for me to like Oliver again anytime soon.

I actually don't mind Susan wanting to interview a deputy mayor who just got out of rehab because that's actually a legit story (I mean, that's the kind of reporting that took Rob Ford down). Just like investigating a mayor who clearly lied about spending five years on a deserted island is also a good story. It's the part where she's dating him at the same time that makes her an unethical reporter and a terrible person. That's why the "she's just doing her job" excuse will fall flat (if Oliver is dumb enough to trot that out).

They could have accomplished everything they needed to do with the reporter without making her a love interest. I don't get it.

[insomniadreams88]

1 minute ago, statsgirl said:

The biggest problem with Susan is not that she looks like two other new characters (which she does and if MM were taller she'd look like her too), or that she's dating one part of my OTP, or even that she's mean to the other part of my OTP, or that she's investigating Oliver, or that she tried to stab Thea in the back, or even that she makes Oliver look stupid.

The biggest part is that she makes him look mean and petty if he's going to let her go after Lance who started drinking again after his daughter died and is just now out of rehab.  And self-centered if he's not aware that she's doing it.

Exactly. And based on the photos and since Susan looks to have a press badge and her notebook, it looks like he might go to Russia knowing that Susan's going to be interviewing Lance while he's gone. (At this point, I'm half-expecting Oliver to go to Lance and say, "Listen, this is a good idea. You can tell your side of things.") 

[statsgirl]

23 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Maybe the next Russia photo Susan gets her hands on will be of Oliver going around in the hood in Russia in the flashbacks. Maybe they can have that on a table somewhere in her apartment next time Oliver stops by and use it to transition into a FB. 

She's made Oliver so stupid, I bet he wouldn't even notice.

6 minutes ago, Trisha said:

I actually don't mind Susan wanting to interview a deputy mayor who just got out of rehab because that's actually a legit story (I mean, that's the kind of reporting that took Rob Ford down). [snip]

They could have accomplished everything they needed to do with the reporter without making her a love interest. I don't get it.

They probably wanted to make sure Oliver and Felicity stayed apart, and Tinah wasn't part of the triangle, but surely Billy's death accomplished that.

Rob Ford had been doing shady things for a long time before he was finally forced into rehab.  Not just substance related.

5 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Exactly. And based on the photos and since Susan looks to have a press badge and her notebook, it looks like he might go to Russia knowing that Susan's going to be interviewing Lance while he's gone. (At this point, I'm half-expecting Oliver to go to Lance and say, "Listen, this is a good idea. You can tell your side of things.") 

LOL!  She's made Oliver so clueless, he probably would

[Proteus]

22 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

yes she did. 

Thanks.

[Velocity23]

She at least film during the last day before Arrow started their Christmas hiatus. After SA already left for his vacation. EBR and WH were filming. And EBR tweeter WH. Between episodes 12-14. Not sure which episode since they picked up some scenes for previous episodes. 

[wonderwall]

I don't believe she was seen filming after episode 14. They're on episode 17 now which is fine for her not to be in because that's a flashback heavy episode

[Starfish35]

11 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

I don't believe she was seen filming after episode 14. They're on episode 17 now which is fine for her not to be in because that's a flashback heavy episode

So that means she's not in 15, 16, and 17?  

I don't know how many episodes she missed in the first half because I wasn't watching, but I do know she wasn't in 10 or 11.  We don't know yet whether she's in 12, but it's probably going to be brief if at all since she's not going to Russia with them.  That's 5-6 episodes just in the second half.   What's going on here?  I mean, is it me, or is this weird?

[wonderwall]

Just now, Starfish35 said:

I don't know how many episodes she missed in the first half because I wasn't watching, but I do know she wasn't in 10 or 11.  We don't know yet whether she's in 12, but it's probably going to be brief if at all since she's not going to Russia with them.  That's 5-6 episodes just in the second half.   What's going on here?  I mean, is it me, or is this weird?

I think we may see Willa leave this year. It's sad... Even sadder because that means NuBC might stay for good...

[AyChihuahua]

9 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

So that means she's not in 15, 16, and 17?  

I don't know how many episodes she missed in the first half because I wasn't watching, but I do know she wasn't in 10 or 11.  We don't know yet whether she's in 12, but it's probably going to be brief if at all since she's not going to Russia with them.  That's 5-6 episodes just in the second half.   What's going on here?  I mean, is it me, or is this weird?

I've thought there was something going on for awhile. I think she asked for much less screentime. She's not a huge name or anything, but she is recognizable enough that if she was upset that they cut her part and she made a big fuss, they'd probably at least partially cave.

Edited February 6, 2017 by AyChihuahua
for clarity

[Chaser]

What episode did KP say she was filming with the guys? I want to say it's 13.

[Proteus]

34 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

I've thought there was something going on for awhile. I think she asked for much less screentime. She's not a huge name or anything, but she is recognizable enough that if she was upset that they cut her part and she made a big fuss, they'd probably at least partially cave.

But I don't see why she'd ask for less screen time.

[lemotomato]

46 minutes ago, Chaser said:

What episode did KP say she was filming with the guys? I want to say it's 13.

There have been so many new people on the show this season I can't even think of who KP is.

[wonderwall]

2 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

There have been so many new people on the show this season I can't even think of who KP is.

Ken the pap haha

[lemotomato]

4 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

Ken the pap haha

Ohhh... yeah. I'd never had guessed that, lol.

[AyChihuahua]

30 minutes ago, Proteus said:

But I don't see why she'd ask for less screen time.

Because she gets paid the same either way and doesn't give a crap about the show anymore?

[Primal Slayer]

1 hour ago, wonderwall said:

I think we may see Willa leave this year. It's sad... Even sadder because that means NuBC might stay for good...

There is no might. DD is here to stay. It's sad but not surprising to see them practically push Willa out of the show.

[Thundercatmary]

10 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

There have been so many new people on the show this season I can't even think of who KP is.

I didn't know who that was either, I was going to ask but I felt dumb lol

[Proteus]

6 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

Because she gets paid the same either way and doesn't give a crap about the show anymore?

Is there any real evidence she asked for less screen time or doesn't care about the  show anymore?

[Guest]

It's a shame about Thea because she's always had potential (outside of her Malcolm scenes). I always wanted to see her become a mini Moira Queen. There was shades of it earlier this season and then nothing. 

Obviously we don't know for sure she's leaving but it's weird for a main character to be missing two episodes in a row. 

Edited February 7, 2017 by Guest

[insomniadreams88]

Just now, Angel12d said:

It's a shame about Thea because she's always had potential. I always wanted to see her become a mini Moira Queen. There was shades of it earlier this season and then nothing. 

Obviously we don't know for sure she's leaving but it's weird for a main character to be missing two episodes in a row. 

I still have hope we might see that when they finally take Susan down. It might make having to sit through this storyline not the worst part of the season. 

It's not just that Thea has been MIA for 2 episodes. It's also that they're not telling us anything about her in 5B either. There was, what, one Q in all the midseason interviews about Thea and it was basically repeating what they told us over the summer. 

[AyChihuahua]

1 hour ago, Proteus said:

Is there any real evidence she asked for less screen time or doesn't care about the  show anymore?

Well sure, the fact that she's barely in it anymore, coupled with, see my statement above, that IMO she's a sufficiently-recognizable name that if she wanted more screentime she'd probably get it.

Edited February 7, 2017 by AyChihuahua

[AyChihuahua]

24 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

There is no might. DD is here to stay. It's sad but not surprising to see them practically push Willa out of the show.

Agreed. Unless ratings hit .4 or under in a way that can be tied to her, she's here to stay.

[Primal Slayer]

The petty in me wants to see it crash and burn just so I can get a laugh about them ruining yet another Canary, but I think ratings could hit .0 and they would keep her around just to save face. 

[Featherhat]

Unless it becomes another "Harrison Wells" situation, where they bring in a new one every season (except change actresses instead of personalities). Not that I think they will do that. But yeah, baring any major clangers in episodes or behind the scenes she's probably a lock for S6 regular or at least heavily recurring. What they do with her is another question. Having now watched the episode in it's entirety I can't say I was that impressed but I guess we'll see how she pans out going forward.

[statsgirl]

That had to take someone away from that very crowded lair and Thea is less necessary than Oliver, Diggle or Felicity.

They're probably waiting to see how Dinah works out.  If she does, Thea will probably join Roy and go off to university where he is.  If she doesn't, Thea will be back in the leathers next season. At least that's my guess.

[Primal Slayer]

Going from 1 female in the group to 2 to 3 then back down to 1 then 2 is never really a good thing.

[apinknightmare]

Never really a good thing could also be Arrow's tag line. 

[shadow2008]

If they make Dinah a regular, I hope they'll give her one of those 13-episode contracts. That way, they can imply that she has other things going besides her arrangement with Team Arrow. 

[looptab]

26 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Never really a good thing could also be Arrow's tag line. 

Or the title of Oliver and Susan's sex tape.

[Starfish35]

14 minutes ago, shadow2008 said:

If they make Dinah a regular, I hope they'll give her one of those 13-episode contracts. That way, they can imply that she has other things going besides her arrangement with Team Arrow. 

It depends on whether Willa really is leaving or not.  IF she really is out, then in my opinion (which is probably an unpopular one) they need more than just EBR as full-time female regulars.  Right now, with Evelyn gone and Thea sidelined, Felicity is the only girl in the boys' club, and as much as I love her, that's still not an idea I'm wild about.  If they need to bring Dinah on to balance out the gender ratio*shrug* so be it.  We've gone from four female regulars (practically five) in season two down to two.  We don't need to push that down to one.

Again, just in my opinion. YMMV.

Edited February 7, 2017 by Starfish35

[Proteus]

1 hour ago, AyChihuahua said:

Well sure, the fact that she's barely in it anymore, coupled with, see my statement above, that IMO she's a sufficiently-recognizable name that if she wanted more screentime she'd probably get it.

I just don't think there's any proof. I guess we'll see.

1 hour ago, Angel12d said:

It's a shame about Thea because she's always had potential (outside of her Malcolm scenes). I always wanted to see her become a mini Moira Queen. There was shades of it earlier this season and then nothing. 

Obviously we don't know for sure she's leaving but it's weird for a main character to be missing two episodes in a row. 

Quentin missed even more.

[tangerine95]

Idk if Thea will be written out tbh. It could happen because there's way too many masks rn and if they want to keep Curtis, Tinah and Rene as regulars next season then I don't see much of role for Thea unless they plan to just keep her so someone actually does some mayor work.And we saw it happen with Roy and Laurel when they were sidelined all season and then given one or two episodes with some focus before they wrote them off.

 But it could also be that they just needed to sideline some of the main characters to make room for the new, most likely WB mandated ones and chose Thea and Lance as the ones most sidelined. At one point in season 2 when they wanted to push Sara,  Felicity and Digg got pushed to the background for a while and it happened for Digg again in season 3 when for a part of the season he had no real storyline and was even pushed out of the field for LL's BC arc. The show eventually came back to them in both seasons so it could happen with Thea too. 

I'm more worried about Lance. He has no personal connections on the show now that LL is dead and his bond with Oliver has been kinda ignored and they didn't even keep him as the police connection so I can see him leaving town or dying. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Proteus said:

Quentin missed even more.

I actually don't have a problem with Lance missing a few episodes. He was never a full team member like Thea was. And I'm actually not sure what else his character could do. It'd be different if he was still a cop though.

[statsgirl]

There's no payoff to getting rid of Lance though.  The big death last season was Laurel and hopefully some of the n00bs will be weeded out one way or another so killing Lance would have no meaning and he doesn't take up room in the lair.  It would make more sense to have him alive but only pull him out when they need an older person on the show.

Thea, on the other hand, is competition to Dinah since they seem to insist on having four men on the team now.  I'd rather they got rid of Rene and brought Thea back but it seems my thinking is not the EPs'.

[Starfish35]

15 minutes ago, Proteus said:

I just don't think there's any proof. I guess we'll see.

No one said there was any proof of anything.  It's just speculation based on the available evidence, which may or may not be correct.

[Primal Slayer]

20 minutes ago, tangerine95 said:

Idk if Thea will be written out tbh. It could happen because there's way too many masks rn and if they want to keep Curtis, Tinah and Rene as regulars next season then I don't see much of role for Thea unless they plan to just keep her so someone actually does some mayor work.And we saw it happen with Roy and Laurel when they were sidelined all season and then given one or two episodes with some focus before they wrote them off.

 But it could also be that they just needed to sideline some of the main characters to make room for the new, most likely WB mandated ones and chose Thea and Lance as the ones most sidelined. At one point in season 2 when they wanted to push Sara,  Felicity and Digg got pushed to the background for a while and it happened for Digg again in season 3 when for a part of the season he had no real storyline and was even pushed out of the field for LL's BC arc. The show eventually came back to them in both seasons so it could happen with Thea too. 

I'm more worried about Lance. He has no personal connections on the show now that LL is dead and his bond with Oliver has been kinda ignored and they didn't even keep him as the police connection so I can see him leaving town or dying. 

There is pushed to the background and then there is PUSHED to the background. Thea is in danger of going upstairs and just never coming back down, never to be spoken of ever again. 

Felicity and Diggles screen time was not cut as severely as Theas where they only got like 10 mins more than half way through the season.

Once these writers are over you, they seem to just stop writing for you all together before they show you door. 

Edited February 7, 2017 by Primal Slayer

[insomniadreams88]

I'm going to hope they don't kill off Lance because then they'll have killed off a Lance every season since S3. 

[shadow2008]

1 hour ago, Starfish35 said:

It depends on whether Willa really is leaving or not.  IF she really is out, then in my opinion (which is probably an unpopular one) they need more than just EBR as full-time female regulars.  Right now, with Evelyn gone and Thea sidelined, Felicity is the only girl in the boys' club, and as much as I love her, that's still not an idea I'm wild about.  If they need to bring Dinah on to balance out the gender ratio*shrug* so be it.  We've gone from four female regulars (practically five) in season two down to two.  We don't need to push that down to one.

Again, just in my opinion. YMMV.

No, I agree that the show definitely needs more than 1 full-time female regular, but my problem with Dinah in that role is that it would essentially reduce her to a member of Team Arrow (like Laurel and Sara in previous seasons) and that simply doesn't do justice to the character. The sad thing is, any halfway decent writing staff would be able to give each and every character their due over the course of a 23 episode season. They could either give them little arcs of their own via focus episodes or hand a character like Dinah a separate plotline where she's chasing down a lead and then tie it to the main plot by midseason (sort of like what you can see with Karen on Daredevil), but the Arrow writers have proven time and time again that they are incapable of writing simple things like that. That's why I am pleading for a 13-episode contract and if it means that Felicity is the only full-time female regular left on the show, so be it.  

[Starfish35]

I guess I'm not following - sorry.  How does being a member of Team Arrow reduce her?  I wouldn't argue that it reduces Felicity - why would it reduce Dinah?  

[Midnight Lullaby]

IMO there are too many team members..this isn't supposed to be an ensemble show and the writers don't seem to be even able to write for a large cast. Thea should stay because she has a unique relationship with characters that have been on the show for years and isn't just a mask. She is that too but she has something more than that. Wild puppy, new BC, Curtis, Rory can be switched with different masks next year and it wouldn't change anything.

[Sunshine]

If Thea and/or Lance are gone after this year it's probably due to contracts as much as anything.  They might be written out by death, Thea joining Roy, Lance retiring to somewhere warm, etc. 

I do wonder if the plan for S6 is to change it into an ensemble focusing on Oliver, Tina, Rene & Curtis as well as whatever other new masks D.C. wants introduced with Diggle & Felicity as background support.  I wondered watching 5.11 if that was a hint of the future.

If Smoak Technologies comes into play now, especially as a startup, I would think that is a signal that Felicity is leaving the team and possibly the show, depending on love interest role.  In show they have said you can't run a business full time and be a vigilante.  Oliver lost QC. If Ray hadn't been so understanding Felicity would have been fired in S3. She was in S4.  Thea's running the mayor's office at this point.

If it becomes an ensemble in S6 they could have lives outside the bunker.  

[Primal Slayer]

Just make Thea, mayor. Oliver obviously isn't that interested. 

[apinknightmare]

9 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

I do wonder if the plan for S6 is to change it into an ensemble focusing on Oliver, Tina, Rene & Curtis as well as whatever other new masks D.C. wants introduced with Diggle & Felicity as background support.  I wondered watching 5.11 if that was a hint of the future.

The Arrow becoming an ensemble conversation/fear has been around since S2 when Laurel first got let in on Oliver's secret, and has varied in who the ensemble would be depending on who was in the lair at the time. This seems to be the actual real first push into it, but there being too many people on the team seems to be a pretty universal complaint this year, so they'll probably do another course correction next season and take some people out. I think we're likely stuck with Tinah - the rest IDK about. 

Quote

If Smoak Technologies comes into play now, especially as a startup, I would think that is a signal that Felicity is leaving the team and possibly the show, depending on love interest role.

Not sure why a startup that would presumably be in Star City would be a signal that Felicity's leaving the team - I can't imagine that as long as she lived there she wouldn't be working with Team Arrow. If they wanted to write her out, they could just have her take a job offer somewhere else out of town or something. Smoak Technologies coming into play would indicate to me that they need a way to bring in another character (like Curtis with PT), or they need a front for all the experimental tech stuff the team would be getting their hands on or something along those lines. Either way I wouldn't expect that much screen time to be devoted to it. Jobs on Arrow are always plot convenient, and I don't think that's ever going to change. 

[Cleanqueen]

Yeah I don't think Willa minds as much, she's a series regular so whether they write for her or not she still gets paid. They probably already informed her that she would be sidelined this year. At this point unless she's on the team, I don't know how else they could incorporate her.

They need to cut the team in half, it's getting ridiculous because we have almost the same amount of team members as the Legends of Tomorrow cast. 

[tangerine95]

It is ridiculous how big the team is, i mean 7 people is way too many. I can't think of another single lead show that had as many people basically doing the same thing as the main hero in every episode. I don't think they intend to turn the show into an ensemble but it seems like we'll get new masks and team members every season depending on who DC or WB wants them to push that year. 

[insomniadreams88]

The team is getting ridiculous - and especially with people with powers. I know Rory's leaving this week, but if he was sticking around? They could just send him and Tinah into the field. He could block any bullets and she could canary cry the enemy. The others can ... stand back and watch? 

Gotta love that in S1, Oliver was all, "must do this by myself, no one can know who I am." Now, S5, he's like, "This is who I am, here's where we work out of and you're in! (Even though we were just betrayed by a newbie.) But also, no one can know who I am if it's time for me to kill again."

The best thing Arrow could do is ship off all the newbies by season's end to protect other cities (with an apology note to places like Hub City for stealing their vigilantes when clearly they needed one) using what they learned on the team and returning to the main cast for S6. 

[apinknightmare]

4 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Gotta love that in S1, Oliver was all, "must do this by myself, no one can know who I am." Now, S5, he's like, "This is who I am, here's where we work out of and you're in! (Even though we were just betrayed by a newbie.) But also, no one can know who I am if it's time for me to kill again."

Pretty soon the Arrow cave's gonna need an HR department. 

[Chaser]

Ideally I think they should get rid of a few characters but I don't think they will. I think they should course correct by spliting the Teams to A and B. OTA remains the A-Team. B-Team is Black Canary, Wild Dog and Mr. Terrific. Make B-Team a recurring presence that spends 50% of their time helping the A-Team and the other 50% traveling. They can make guest appearances on the other shows and meet other masks to bring on for the occasional guest appearance. 

Edited February 7, 2017 by Chaser