Spoiler Discussion Thread

[insomniadreams88]

4 minutes ago, tv echo said:

As for Felicity's "thread" in the back half of this season:

Considering how Felicity's Havenrock storyline took about two minutes in one episode and was really Rory's story, should we really expect much for Felicity's new story in the back half? Also, Diggle is allowed to be Oliver's best friend and also have independent storylines (Suicide Squad, military fugitive). Yet Felicity only gets her own storyline when she's not Oliver's love interest? Is she going to be shipped off to another 'island'?  Or, more likely, will her storyline be tied to Curtis' hero journey?

I noticed that MG said it "isn't about even necessarily her father or her mother." That "necessarily" makes me think that it could somehow be related to her parents. But yeah, until I see it play out on screen, I'm not going to believe that it's fully about her and not someone else too. 

And honestly? What we saw last year with storylines that should be about Felicity when she was with Oliver - her paralysis, her father showing up - I'd actually be okay with her not being with Oliver during this upcoming storyline because they'd probably find some way to make it about him even if it's not about her relationship with Oliver.

That being said, I don't understand why the writers seem to think that Felicity can't have her own storyline and have her and Oliver working their way back to each other on-screen. But maybe they'll prove me wrong and we'll get that. (It is easier being pessimistic about that.) Right now, instead, I think I'll just keep hoping that whatever's going on with Felicity leads to some good conversations with Diggle at the very least. 

[Sakura12]

What I don't get is, as a writer you'd think you'd be more proud if your original-ish character took off in popularity over the established ones because you created that character from the ground up. 

Edited November 21, 2016 by Sakura12

[Primal Slayer]

Not much to be proud of if you all you do is set up the established ones to fail. 

[wonderwall]

28 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Not much to be proud of if you all you do is set up the established ones to fail. 

Well...you don't always get what you want. Lol

I for one hope this new BC succeeds because she's the first WoC on team Arrow to wear a mask. I'm here for good representation. 

Edited November 21, 2016 by wonderwall

[Primal Slayer]

That's the motto for Arrow. No one gets what they want.

I'm sure the new BC will do fine since the writers enjoy original characters and they make that very evident. 

Edited November 21, 2016 by Primal Slayer

[Cleanqueen]

I watched Stephen's reply, those were some tough questions he received. I think his response was more "honestly the only explanation for all the shit that they've pulled lately is because it's a TV Show and you can't always get what you want" I really think that was the only explanation he thought would best describe the situation. You can tell the difference when Stephen is being honest and when he's trying to sell something. Right now he's trying to sell something even his cast mates aren't completely on board with. We'll wait for couple of months, Stephen will change his tune, trust me. This is nothing new. I don't blame him, this is a job he has to do. 

[Chaser]

I'm still hoping Tina turns into Manhunter or something. I still think BS could turn into BC before heading off. 

Im wondering about just how much CG knows. He seems to be insistent about a new BC but when someone sent him the group photo with Tina and asked if that was the new BC, he asked who she was. I don't know if he was joking but I thought that was interesting.

Long shot, but I'm hoping Felicity's story involves a lot of interaction with Tina. 

[Primal Slayer]

CG has been so shady lately, with "withholding" spoilers until someone else releases them...I don't like it

[Thundercatmary]

He's a very shady guy and can be particularly nasty. I remember this guy going back many years with other fandoms and he seems to get a kick out of messing with people. 

[wonderwall]

When is CG not shady?

[Midnight Lullaby]

His new attitude makes me think he doesn't know much at the moment to be honest. He was all too happy in the past to spoil anything.

[statsgirl]

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

I think it is significant that the new GA Rebirth comics include BC and Diggle but not Felicity. At the same time, I know I could be wrong, but I can't help what I think at this point.

That makes me sad.  It really is a rejection of not only Olicity but Felicity herself and everything she brought to the show.

This really is the year of pandering to comic book bros.  Will they have Green Arrow romancing BC again?

1 hour ago, wonderwall said:

I for one hope this new BC succeeds because she's the first WoC on team Arrow to wear a mask. I'm here for good representation. 

She looks white to me, and she was born in NYC.  How is she a WoC?

54 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

I watched Stephen's reply, those were some tough questions he received. I think his response was more "honestly the only explanation for all the shit that they've pulled lately is because it's a TV Show and you can't always get what you want" I really think that was the only explanation he thought would best describe the situation. You can tell the difference when Stephen is being honest and when he's trying to sell something. Right now he's trying to sell something even his cast mates aren't completely on board with. We'll wait for couple of months, Stephen will change his tune, trust me. This is nothing new. I don't blame him, this is a job he has to do. 

I agree.  While he may have been on board with this s1 reboot, I don't think he's as much behind it as he was at  SDCC, and he's not enjoying the audience reaction. 

WM and MG probably thought that the "Mom and Dad" scenes  of the first three episodes would keep the shippers happy and supporting the show while they pushed their Masks! Fights! Men! agenda.

They're shooting 512 right now, right?  If the EPs are listening, I expect a change in direction by 513 if not earlier.   Certainly a reaction shot of Felicity when Oliver announces he's going on a date, which requires no changes to the script at all.

[wonderwall]

10 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

She looks white to me, and she was born in NYC.  How is she a WoC?

I don't think she looks white. She looks more Hispanic more than anything else. Apparently, Juliana is of Dominican/African/Chinese/Hungarian/Russian descent. Just because she was born in NYC doesn't mean she's white.

Edited November 21, 2016 by wonderwall

[Starfish35]

3 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

I don't think she looks white. She looks more Hispanic more than anything else. Apparently, Juliana is of Dominican/African/Russian descent. Just because she was born in NYC doesn't mean she's white.

IMDb and Wikipedia say Dominican, African, Chinese, Russian, and Hungarian.

Edited November 21, 2016 by Starfish35

[wonderwall]

2 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

IMDb and Wikipedia say Dominican, African, Chinese, Russian, and Hungarian.

Thank you! I just heard she was Dominican/African/Russian. Didn't know about the other two. But that's an interesting mix of ethnicities.

Edited November 21, 2016 by wonderwall

[dtissagirl]

But will they make Tina mixed-race, or will this be Wentworth Miller all over again?

[Morrigan2575]

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

I think it is significant that Juliana Harkavy has been working with Bamford on set (in an episode that he's not directing) and training at T3 Athletics, even though Tina is supposedly only a cop.  

EBR and Paul Blackthorne both train at T3 Athletics and have both worked with BamBam on stunts.  BamBam is still the Stunt Coordinator and as of last year he was doing most of the 2nd Unit/stunt directing...but I guess that doesn't factor in to the equation?

[looptab]

Plus, we really have  no way of knowing  that  Ritter isn't training or wasn't training there since he isn't addicted to social media, and at the time  Gavankar was on the show I don't think anyone aside from Stephen and David trained regularly?

[wonderwall]

15 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

But will they make Tina mixed-race, or will this be Wentworth Miller all over again?

I wouldn't put it past the show. But I hope not. 

[BkWurm1]

Quote

I think it is significant that the new GA Rebirth comics include BC and Diggle but not Felicity. At the same time, I know I could be wrong, but I can't help what I think at this point.

I don't think it's particularly significant in terms of the show at all.  Even before the rebirth, the guy telling the GA story had chosen to go a different way (turning GA into a werewolf) and now they are essentially rebooting into continuity an old romance and Felicity would get in the way.  She's in the GA comic canon so rebirth or not, she can and probably will show up in the future when the right writer gets control of the comics but I don't think the comics have much to do our show.  No matter what happens with Tina, she's not by any comic canon, Dinah Laurel Lance so there's nothing really for the show and the comic's to align with.  

I'm concerned about Tina, but not because of what the comics are currently doing.  

 

Just now, Morrigan2575 said:

EBR and Paul Blackthorne both train at T3 Athletics and have both worked with BamBam on stunts.  BamBam is still the Stunt Coordinator and as of last year he was doing most of the 2nd Unit/stunt directing...but I guess that doesn't factor in to the equation?

It doesn't in the sense that if Tina was just some cop, she wouldn't be doing this much stunt work but I think we all know whatever she is, she's not just some cop.  It's not a stretch to assume that her scenes need the stunt coordinator.  That's all I read into it.  

[Chaser]

I don't understand why its more significant that they are leaving Felicity out of the Comics than the fact that they killed off BC in the show.

[statsgirl]

Wentworth Miller again is my guess.  Just my opinion but if the tipping point is going to be reached, PoC have to look like they are PoC.  (I mean, not passing as white, like Kaat on BntB having an Aisan mother since Kristin Kreuk has a Chinese mother,)

I thought Harkany wounded Hungarian.  I'm impressed at her languages and the instruments she plays.

6 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I don't think it's particularly significant in terms of the show at all.  Even before the rebirth, the guy telling the GA story had chosen to go a different way (turning GA into a werewolf) and now they are essentially rebooting into continuity an old romance and Felicity would get in the way.  She's in the GA comic canon so rebirth or not, she can and probably will show up in the future when the right writer gets control of the comics but I don't think the comics have much to do our show.  No matter what happens with Tina, she's not by any comic canon, Dinah Laurel Lance so there's nothing really for the show and the comic's to align with. 

I didn't mean it in terms of affecting the TV show, it makes me sad in terms of the character of Felicity and her legacy.  Diggle gets to be in the comics, Felicity should too.

But then, Diggle is Spartan and Felicity is just Tech Girl.

Edited November 21, 2016 by statsgirl

[dtissagirl]

1 minute ago, statsgirl said:

Diggle gets to be in the comics, Felicity should too.

With Ben Percy on the GA comics right now, I honestly do not want him to even think about Felicity, much less write her. Once they get someone else who doesn't write women so terribly, maybe we can talk.

[wonderwall]

3 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Wentworth Miller again is my guess.  Just my opinion but if the tipping point is going to be reached, PoC have to look like they are PoC.  (I mean, not passing as white, like Kaat on BntB having an Aisan mother since Kristin Kreuk has a Chinese mother,)

I'm sorry... But how does she look white?

[CabotCove]

Quote

That's the motto for Arrow. No one gets what they want.

I guess thats true now?, what a difference time makes. 

Most TV shows are generally like that though, I for one im used to it.

Quote

I'm sure the new BC will do fine since the writers enjoy original characters and they make that very evident. 

I think it will depend on whether she gets a good backing, they sure do love to praised and get buzz. Plus their track record of writing female characters has gotten even worse this season. And if she is really a POC, well a lot is staked against her.

Edited November 21, 2016 by HeroLeague

[dtissagirl]

6 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

I'm sorry... But how does she look white?

She looks white to me because white in Brazil =/= white in the USA. She would be white here [not "white passing", actually white by cultural background and because society would totally see her as white, then also by law.]. Just like I'm white, even though I'm Arab-Portuguese-Native Brazilian-African-Italian mixed. But I'm white.

Edited November 21, 2016 by dtissagirl

[Carrie Ann]

11 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Wentworth Miller again is my guess.  Just my opinion but if the tipping point is going to be reached, PoC have to look like they are PoC.  (I mean, not passing as white, like Kaat on BntB having an Aisan mother since Kristin Kreuk has a Chinese mother,)

I can't quite follow the point of this? @wonderwall's post was that she was happy to have a WOC in a costume on Team Arrow for the first time. Whether Juliana "looks white" to you is irrelevant. "Passing" doesn't equal not a POC, and it's not on her to reach some tipping point? She is a WOC, by the US's Eurocentric definition, and if the show also identifies her that way, that would be great.

[Morrigan2575]

28 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

It doesn't in the sense that if Tina was just some cop, she wouldn't be doing this much stunt work but I think we all know whatever she is, she's not just some cop.  It's not a stretch to assume that her scenes need the stunt coordinator.  That's all I read into it.  

How much stunt work has she done?

[Cleanqueen]

2 hours ago, wonderwall said:

Well...you don't always get what you want. Lol

I for one hope this new BC succeeds because she's the first WoC on team Arrow to wear a mask. I'm here for good representation. 

Having a WOC be BC is actually comic book accurate so those LL fans can't scream comic canon. I really want to embrace Juliana as the new BC, I'm just a little weary about her acting. I've only seen her on TWD and I don't think she was that great at all. But I'll give her a chance, I just hope the actress doesn't do or say something to piss me off before we have a chance to see her on screen.

[Morrigan2575]

1 minute ago, Cleanqueen said:

Having a WOC be BC is actually comic book accurate so those LL fans can't scream comic canon. I really want to embrace Juliana as the new BC, I'm just a little weary about her acting. I've only seen her on TWD and I don't think she was that great at all. But I'll give her a chance, I just hope the actress doesn't do or say something to piss me off before we have a chance to see her on screen.

Huh?  

[Sakura12]

Black Canary has always been white. White Canary and Jade Canary were WoC. I'm still going to call foul on this Tina women being Black Canary since the whole reason Sara couldn't use that name is because her name wasn't Dinah. 

Edited November 21, 2016 by Sakura12

[Midnight Lullaby]

I live in Europe and there are plenty of people from Italy or Spain for example with darker skin than she has and they are considered white here. My dad is for example, except when we go to the US, where he gets controlled more carefully at the airport than my mom and I.

Edited November 21, 2016 by Midnight Lullaby

[Cleanqueen]

7 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Huh?  

In Elseworld's Finest, Black Canary was an African American superheroine. It was an alternate universe.

[Morrigan2575]

8 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Black Canary has always been white. White Canary and Jade Canary were WoC. I'm still going to call foul on this Tina women being Black Canary since the whole reason Sara couldn't use that name is because her name wasn't Dinah. 

Has that been confirmed?

[Sakura12]

Just now, Morrigan2575 said:

Has that been confirmed?

Not confirmed, but I know the writers all of sudden stopped calling Sara, Black Canary after they got complaints. Then they switched to saying Sara's the Canary in interviews and things. 

[dtissagirl]

I would be thrilled if they make Tina mixed race to honor them hiring a mixed-race actress. But I'm always wary of this industry that likes doing shit like this:

[calliope1975]

Wow, that is beyond disgusting. 

Yeah, the US is weird with race/ethnicity. The Flash could have made Snart biracial, but they didn't. I hope they make Tina reflective of the actress' multi-racial background, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Primal Slayer]

35 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

In Elseworld's Finest, Black Canary was an African American superheroine. It was an alternate universe.

Every superhero has been a different race in an Elseworlds story, that isn't going to exactly fly with die-hards. Elseworld stories are not comic canon. But she isn't playing DLL so it won't really matter.

Edited November 21, 2016 by Primal Slayer

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, wonderwall said:

I'm sorry... But how does she look white?

Green eyes and golden skin?  White isn't so absurd an assumption.  Which is why I've given up on making assumptions about anyone's ethnicity anymore because I often just can't tell.   I mean, my Irish German BFF during her tanning days had more melanin in her skin and now with spray tanning, I'm even more clueless.  I know some people are more savvy but I've decided it's a skill I just don't need anyway.   

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

How much stunt work has she done?

Enough that her character has had at least some of the focus of the stunt director for a few weeks now.  It's not that big of a deal but it's also not typical for a how the other cops on the show have been used, engaging only occasionally in any stunt work.  I'm not making anymore of it than that.  Do you disagree?        

Edited November 21, 2016 by BkWurm1

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

Enough that her character has had at least some of the focus of the stunt director for a few weeks now.  It's not that big of a deal but it's also not typical for a how the other cops on the show have been used, engaging only occasionally in any stunt work.  I'm not making anymore of it than that.  Do you disagree?        

I'd actually like a specific amount because going through BamBam and Julianna's twitter I can only see posts from BamBam referencing them working together.  One on 11/4 where he tweeted she did a good job and one on 11/7 where he tweeted a picture of the two of them with a welcome announcement.  The rest is stuff from the gym where either she is tweeting pictures of herself working out or (I think) in one case he tweeted something.  Oh, I did find one picture she posted on 11/10 where she was in her bed with bruised knees

Edited November 21, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[Tazmania]

4 hours ago, wonderwall said:

Well...you don't always get what you want. Lol

I for one hope this new BC succeeds because she's the first WoC on team Arrow to wear a mask. I'm here for good representation. 

WoC? 

Isn't her name Eastern European? 

[wonderwall]

Just now, Tazmania said:

WoC? 

Isn't her name Eastern European? 

Partly. She has TWO parents. Her father must be Eastern European while her mother must be Dominican/African/Chinese

[tarotx]

1 minute ago, wonderwall said:

Partly. She has TWO parents. Her father must be Eastern European while her mother must be Dominican/African/Chinese

The bride’s mother, Berta Carela, Juliana, the groom’s mother, Brenda Kupchick

http://www.ilovefc.com/Fairfield-County-Weddings-2015/Juliana-Jay-Harkavy-Peter-Christopher-Kupchick/

[wonderwall]

@tarotx excellent sleuthing :p

Also... IS that the girl who plays Darcy in Thor???

[Velocity23]

[calliope1975]

5 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

@tarotx excellent sleuthing :p

Also... IS that the girl who plays Darcy in Thor???

It's Kat Dennings. They were in To Write Love on Her Arms together. 

Edited November 21, 2016 by calliope1975

[wonderwall]

2 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

It does look like Kat.

I think it is. They follow each other on twitter.

[looptab]

Oliver looks like he is playing darts. Not so sure about Dig and Felicity so small there. Felicity especially has a weird pose.

Edited November 21, 2016 by looptab

[Cleanqueen]

28 minutes ago, tarotx said:

The bride’s mother, Berta Carela, Juliana, the groom’s mother, Brenda Kupchick

http://www.ilovefc.com/Fairfield-County-Weddings-2015/Juliana-Jay-Harkavy-Peter-Christopher-Kupchick/

She's gorgeous!! She looks a lot like her mom too.

[BkWurm1]

1 minute ago, looptab said:

Oliver looks like he's is playing darts. Not so sure about Dig and Felicity so small there. Felicity especially has a weird pose.

Ha, it even looks like he's holding a dart.  Clearly from Felicity's pleased expression, she's somehow winning the game.