Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Mellowyellow]

1 hour ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Anyone else wonder if they thought beyond getting Felicity in the dream world when they put her with Ray, since technically, his fiancee should be alive, right? Oliver didn't get on the Gambit = no island, no Slade, no Mirakuru soldiers, no Anna dying? Am I forgetting something? 

My head cannon says that Felicity is his great love so she's married to him in the dream world.

Or if this is Oliver’s dream, he's threatened by Ray/Felicity so he'd dream they were together.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Primal Slayer said:

lol technically. Saras "death" lead to Quentin/Dinah growing apart and Q becoming an alcoholic but who knows. 

Yeah, I mean, the Gambit sinking is what ruined everything for everyone so technically things should appear all happy happy joy joy if that didn't happen. I guess? But then I don't know if we're supposed to really think that deeply about a joint delusion made by aliens. So...haha. No idea.

[tarotx]

Quentin is in the 100th somewhere. I think that's likely to be the dream world what with him being in rehab in the real world. Though seeing Sara again would probably do him some good. 

[Mellowyellow]

6 hours ago, calliope1975 said:

It could be a moment like, "It was red," that shows something insignificant that made a lasting impression. 

Gawd I hope they don't write something like he was stalking her for a few weeks before he decided to go to her desk with the laptop and class that as a huge Olicity moment!

[HighHopes]

16 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Gawd I hope they don't write something like he was stalking her for a few weeks before he decided to go to her desk with the laptop and class that as a huge Olicity moment!

I wouldn't put it past these writers to have Oliver track down the blonde he saw when he came back to Starling City (in s3 flashback) when he got back from the island and follow her around for a while to see if she ever figured out that he was in the building years ago. 

My money is on a flashback to Oliver giving Felicity the wine. Proof that he keeps his promises and to her!! I know that apparently that happened in the 2.5 comics, but MG also said it happened differently on Twitter once. Also, these writers forget what happened in the same episode, I doubt they remember what happened in the 2.5 comics/what was said on Twitter three years ago. 

Edited November 19, 2016 by HighHopes

[bijoux]

2 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

 

But I forgot to say...where the hell is Quentin? 

Refusing to attend his daughter's marriage to a guy he hates?

[insomniadreams88]

47 minutes ago, HighHopes said:

I wouldn't put it past these writers to have Oliver track down the blonde he saw when he came back to Starling City (in s3 flashback) when he got back from the island and follow her around for a while to see if she ever figured out that he was in the building years ago. 

My money is on a flashback to Oliver giving Felicity the wine. Proof that he keeps his promises and to her!! I know that apparently that happened in the 2.5 comics, but MG also said it happened differently on Twitter once. Also, these writers forget what happened in the same episode, I doubt they remember what happened in the 2.5 comics/what was said on Twitter three years ago. 

True. 419 was proof they don't care about their between-seasons comics.

16 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Refusing to attend his daughter's marriage to a guy he hates?

Maybe he's somewhere with Tommy and Walter. 

[Belinea]

I assume that picture at night is Oliver saying goodbye. I hope it won't be some dialogue that makes me hurl something at the tv. 

I am still not getting the concept. So will they know they are in the wrong world, right away? Will they figure it out as they go along? Will they know they are in the wrong world and are tempted to stay because of how happy that world is? Also is it just a fake reality or everyone's happy place? Because while I can imagine that Thea's perfect world would include her parents, I really have a hard time believing that Oliver's ultimate dream is marrying Laurel. Also what would Diggle's reason be to be there?

Edited November 19, 2016 by Belinea

[spartan]

Katie cassidy is very very  beautiful in this wedding dress, i can't wait, laurel lance in ARROW 100th, a dream become reality, LAURIVER FOREVER

[Velocity23]

7 minutes ago, spartan said:

Katie cassidy is very very  beautiful in this wedding dress, i can't wait, laurel lance in ARROW 100th, a dream become reality, LAURIVER FOREVER

Oliver letting Laurel down one last time is gonna be priceless.

 

Also was Quentin ever a fan of Oliver before the Gambit?

[arjumand]

57 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Oliver letting Laurel down one last time is gonna be priceless.

 

Also was Quentin ever a fan of Oliver before the Gambit?

Wasn't there something (I think in the 'convict party' episode) about Quentin cleaning his gun whenever Oliver came over, or making sure her bedroom door remained open or something (I remember the latter made me laugh- Oliver's bedroom at the mansion was bigger than some people's apartments, like they hadn't been banging there forever).

Quentin never liked Oliver, and only put up with him for Laurel's sake, I think.

[dtissagirl]

1 hour ago, Belinea said:

I am still not getting the concept. So will they know they are in the wrong world, right away? Will they figure it out as they go along? Will they know they are in the wrong world and are tempted to stay because of how happy that world is? Also is it just a fake reality or everyone's happy place? Because while I can imagine that Thea's perfect world would include her parents, I really have a hard time believing that Oliver's ultimate dream is marrying Laurel. Also what would Diggle's reason be to be there?

The episode description says "everything seems perfect" until Oliver starts to realize some stuff is wrong, so I've been thinking maybe like, the aliens constructed the dream based on Oliver's mind, and just placed the others there too. And I'm also thinking the dreamworld starts with the 5 characters not knowing anything is wrong, and as it progresses they all start to realize it's a trap.

But also -- if these writers are making dreamland into a happy place for all the five characters, separately thinking about how each of the 5 dreamers would have a perfect life if the Gambit hadn't happened, I'm excited to have SO MUCH FODDER for pointing and laughing at how much they'll get the continuity wrong.

[Midnight Lullaby]

I'm thinking it might be based only on Oliver's wish to never have gotten on the Gambit..nothing deeper than that..because if it was everyone's "ideal" world than wouldn't Ray be with his dead fiancée that loved him back, Thea have Roy by her side?

They could have left the aliens out of it and done a "what if" episode..

[Belinea]

It just confuses me because of their clothes, I guess. Laurel is in a wedding dress while everyone goes from regular to wedding attire, even Ray, and Oliver is still running around in his leather jacket. Also why would Deathstroke then be there? Is that someone's subconscious?

[dtissagirl]

Maybe the folks in plain clothes figure out they're trapped in a dreamworld before the folks dressed up to the nines? And Deathstroke could be Oliver fighting the dream, or maybe the tech guys out of the pods found a way to add stuff to the dream, I don't know.

And also -- this isn't an alternate reality, even if it starts from a what-if point in Oliver's life. This is A DREAM. We don't know how the alien pods construct dreams, but the fact that this ISN'T an alt.reality actually gives the writing a whole lot of leeway. The Flash has established how alt.realities work, we know the rules of those by now. Alien-induced dreams are a totally new thing in this 'verse. They can do weird things that make no sense, because it's A DREAM, like, imagine if Crazy Eyes introduces Felicity as "this is my dead fiancée Anna", and Oliver goes, "no wait, that's Felicity Smoak, why do I know that name?"

[Ophanim]

This is probably unpopular opinion, but I really would like for Arrow to end in season 6.  On some kind of high note. 

Whatever TPTB said, this is again season for introducing new spin-offs: Vigilante, Wild Dog and maybe someone else in 5B. Writers aren't just interested anymore in stories for core characters: or they're ignoring them (their POVs), regressing them for plot purposes (to make the rooms for others countless recurring characters) AND above ALL - they're telling the same story over and over and over again. It feels like creative black-hole. 

It's time to wrap up GA story. What do you think? 

[insomniadreams88]

4 hours ago, Belinea said:

I assume that picture at night is Oliver saying goodbye. I hope it won't be some dialogue that makes me hurl something at the tv. 

 

4 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

Oliver letting Laurel down one last time is gonna be priceless.

My guess? It will probably depend on how much everyone says about the real world. I could see it being a rehash of that hospital scene. I'm bracing myself for the worst, basically. 

[bijoux]

Ideally, if it was constructed better, it should have been conceived to end with season 5, but season 6 works as well. If we count on Oliver dealing with the island with the end of the flashbacks this year, then season 6 could be an insight into what life post-island trauma is like.

[Chaser]

The goodbye scene with Oliver and Laurel should consist of Oliver confusing Laurel with his "I'm so sorry you died." I think the we may get him telling her something along the lines if "I'm sorry I couldn't give you this world."

If he is going to pretend the dream doesn't end when he leaves, I could see a Tommy and Tommy/Laurel mention. 

[Morrigan2575]

30 minutes ago, Lidach said:

This is probably unpopular opinion, but I really would like for Arrow to end in season 6.  On some kind of high note. 

 It's time to wrap up GA story. What do you think? 

I like this season so far I've thought all of the S5 episode gave been OK to Great.

I'm sorry but, for me it comes down to personal choice your choice is simple watch/don't watch.  However, don't presume to deprive another viewer of something they enjoy because YOU don't like it anymore.

Sorry but, you asked.

Edited November 19, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[insomniadreams88]

7 minutes ago, Chaser said:

If he is going to pretend the dream doesn't end when he leaves, I could see a Tommy and Tommy/Laurel mention. 

That could be how they get Tommy into the 100th. But given what they did to his memory in 4x19, I'm not really holding my breath for any real Tommy/Laurel mention. At least nothing that won't have me going, "Well, Tommy deserved better." Or maybe it'll be something that has me saying, "Well, this is what Tommy deserved. Why couldn't they give it to him in the real world of Arrow? Preferably before he died?" 

Unless they are going to pretend he's there but always off-screen, like "your best man Tommy's looking for you" or "hey, as your best man, Tommy organized quite the crazy bachelor party."

[Chaser]

That's how I'm anticipating Tommy being brought in, the absentee best man. 

Tommy/Laurel is a stretch. It annoys me to no end they took a storyline that could have done Laurel some good and trambled on it for KCs head canons. Basically I want them to do better this episode than they did with 4x18/19. Not that I have much hope for it

[Velocity23]

If Oliver and Laurel still have the same backstory as in the real world, can Laurel actually come out as someone i would want to root for? Because that would basically mean that Laurel kept ignoring Olivers transgressions, and was blind to what was going on behind her back with Oliver and Sara. That this all was worth it, just to become Mrs. Queen.

[bijoux]

SA posted a BTS pic of himself with ST and JB in the Queen kitchen it would seem. My spec is that Moira has ance again tangled with Malcolm after learning of Robert's latest affair.

https://twitter.com/StephenAmell/status/799847726875742209?s=09

[Belinea]

18 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Laurel some good and trambled on it for KCs head canons

Well at the end of the day, they would not have to go there so she isn't to blame for it all. But I agree that one of the many reasons BC never really worked in her favor was because at the end of the day she wanted to be the love interest more than the superhero.

But I will never understand why they can't seem to understand that nobody is buying LL as a strong woman when they give her material that only underlines how much a of sucker she is for Oliver. Even in this dream world they could have given her a strong presence as a woman who doesn't take anybody's crap or something. Instead they put her in a wedding dress and let her probably talk some more about how they are soulmates. The writers will also probably have Oliver tell her how he will always love her and how she will be with him forever or something. All he couldn't say when she was dying or some sort of explanation. 

[Ophanim]

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I like this season so far I've thought all of the S5 episode gave been OK to Great.

I'm sorry but, for me it comes down to personal choice your choice is simple watch/don't watch.  However, don't presume to deprive another viewer of something they enjoy because YOU don't like it anymore.

Sorry but, you asked.

Don't be sorry, as you said I just asked for opinions. I have mine, you have yours. It's ok. Not here to start a fight. And I never said I don't like Arrow anymore, I like it less, that is true. I walked away from the shows before, I don't have problems with that. We are here to discuss, we don't have to agree all the time. And I wasn't demand it to be canceled, it will come to natural end, after all. I just want to be the good end. 

Edited November 19, 2016 by Lidach

[insomniadreams88]

If Malcolm is there, maybe he passes along a "sorry Tommy couldn't be here, he's X" message. 

Maybe Malcolm thinks that a rehearsal dinner/wedding is the perfect time to tell Thea he's her father? I'm assuming that in this dream world with Robert alive, she wouldn't know that yet?

[tv echo]

Based solely on the 508 synopsis and promo pics, the 100th episode looks less like a love letter and more like a F.U. to fans like me. You wanted an Olicity wedding for the 100th episode? Well, we'll give you Oliver and Laurel engaged and about to be married instead. You thought Ray Palmer was stalkerish and didn't like Raylicity? Well, we'll give you happy Ray and Felicity as a couple. The only thing missing is Samantha showing up with William.

Ray with Felicity in this dream world is just a WTF. It makes no sense, no matter whose delusion/illusion it is - not Oliver, not Ray, not anybody.

If Oliver had never gotten on The Queen's Gambit, the Undertaking would have succeeded and the Glades would've been destroyed.  So most likely Roy (and Sin) would be dead.  Then you'd have Robert & Moira complicit in this criminal undertaking with Malcolm, unknown to their children.  Also, IIRC, Ra's al Ghul and Damien Darhk would still have come to Starling City to destroy it, right?

Edited November 19, 2016 by tv echo

[bijoux]

I did actually briefly wonder whether William would be in the wedding party, but then I realized that Moira would have sooner ordered a hit on Samantha than have that secret revealed.

[statsgirl]

So Oliver would not know about William at that point?  Good reason to not have the kid there.

I'm betting that Tommy is going to be the best man and there will be references to the bachelor party he threw Oliver but because we don't ever actually get to the wedding scene, we don't see him.

Now I'm wondering what those ten years were like from Laurel telling Oliver it's time to move in together to finally, finally getting a wedding.  Did Oliver successfully manage to delay moving in with her?  Did they live together that long before she managed to drag him to the altar?  Did Quentin hate him for that long?  Did Oliver finally finish a university degree and join QC?

Or is the wedding set one year from the Queen's Gambit?  But then Felicity would be too young to already be married to Ray.

36 minutes ago, tv echo said:

If Oliver had never gotten on The Queen's Gambit, the Undertaking would have succeeded and the Glades would've been destroyed.  So most likely Roy (and Sin) would be dead.  Then you'd have Robert & Moira complicit in this criminal undertaking with Malcolm, unknown to their children.  Also, IIRC, Ra's al Ghul and Damien Darhk would still have come to Starling City to destroy it, right?

Didn't Ra's and DD come to Star City (still called Starling in the dream?) because Oliver was the Arrow/Green Arrow?  He wouldn't have become that without the Gambit sinking etc...

But an absolute yes to the F,U. to Olicity fans who wanted an Olicity wedding this episode

[tv echo]

IIRC, Ra's al Ghul was coming to Star(ling) City anyway because of Damien Darhk's reported presence in the city. So regardless of Oliver, Ra's would've come.  My recollection of Darhk's motives is not as clear now, but he had to have been building that underground Ark for several years, so he still would've sought to destroy the world with nukes, regardless of Oliver.

Edited November 19, 2016 by tv echo

[bijoux]

Didn't Ra's turn up because of Malcolm and the fact that he didn't get the okay from the League before going through with the Undertaking? Sure, he fell for Oliver hard and fast, but I don't think he was the reason for Ra's showing up.

[tv echo]

I think Tina is in 512 as well as 511. Shooting for 511 was supposed to end on Nov. 14. JH was still training and talking to Bamford on Nov. 17.

Edited November 19, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

No comment...

[Velocity23]

[Belinea]

What feelings are those? Nausea?

For a group of people who wanted to get 200before100, they sure know how to advertise....

Also, I sometimes feel as though people fight enough but they encourage the petty fights even more.The writers themselves sunk that storyline in the ground so that nobody could root for it. Why would anyone want to remember it fondly? 

Additionally, that big 'Restrooms' irritates me for some reason.

Edited November 19, 2016 by Belinea

[Velocity23]

[HighHopes]

10 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Last weekend he was still saying the "you can't miss what you never had" thing (to a different person). Although he did tell me he didn't understand why Diggle couldn't have two kids. So I really don't know where he or Diggle stands on the erasing Baby Sara thing. 

[Belinea]

They probably thought nobody would actually make a big deal out of it. Because who cares about kids being interchangeable? Do people care about something as unimportant as that? Really, they care? How annoying. We just delivered epic storytelling and people are being mean. We just let our actor fill you in

So probably DR has to explain something away that wasn't his fault and that the writers don't want to deal with because they either have no explanation or don't want to give one. 

Edited November 19, 2016 by Belinea

[insomniadreams88]

Considering I don't see how JJ and Sara could even have the same birthday as it was written on the show but MG said they do... (301, Sara is born, 507, it's JJ's birthday)

I honestly think they thought people would be like, "cool, Flashpoint affected Arrow!" and that's it. Now they actually have to answer questions about it and they probably hadn't expected that. 

[looptab]

Stephen got in a trolling mood, haha. Can't decide yet if that was a smart move or not :)

P.S. I need Carina Mackenzie to STFU.

[DrSpaceman10]

Those promo pics somehow manage to combine all of my least favorite parts of Arrow, excluding Moira. Laurel "marrying" Oliver, Sara getting to go to the dream world (?) with Oliver and Diggle instead of Felicity, focus on the sister-swapping trio, and Raylicity. It's most of the worst parts (imo) of Seasons One, Two and Three. 

Hopefully those promo pics are misleading as to how the episode will be. 

Edited November 19, 2016 by DrSpaceman10

[statsgirl]

16 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I honestly think they thought people would be like, "cool, Flashpoint affected Arrow!" and that's it. Now they actually have to answer questions about it and they probably hadn't expected that. 

Yeah, I think so too. They wanted Flashpoint to affect Arrow but they didn't want to change anything they thought was important.  It never occurred to them (as usual) that the audience might think it important.

34 minutes ago, tv echo said:

No comment...

Probably. Just not sure it's the feels they want us to have.

Of the various factions of the Arrow viewing audience, I get the feeling that this, like the rest of the season, will appeal to the comic book dudes the most.

Laurel fans may like it because KC looks gorgeous and there are Laurel/Sara scenes but he's going to be rejecting her again. Maybe he does it more kindly this time.

Pretty sure as an Olicity fan I'm not going to like it.

[Belinea]

32 minutes ago, looptab said:

Stephen got in a trolling mood, haha. Can't decide yet if that was a smart move or not :)

P.S. I need Carina Mackenzie to STFU.

What happened? Are they trying to get people deliberately angry? Aren't people mad/disappointed/annoyed enough? 

Edited November 19, 2016 by Belinea

[bijoux]

The only Arrow-related tweet by Carina Mackenzie I can find is, "oh! good. this should be nice and uncontroversial." in response to SA's photo of Oliver and Laurel. Incidentally, I find it weird that KC isn't posting anything to do with the crossover. It doesn't seem like her.

[looptab]

Yeah, I was referring to that. Every time she inserts herself in stuff that doesn't really concern her, my irrational dislike for Carina grows esponentially.

As for Stephen, I meant, in past times, a move like that would be smart in that people would get all riled up and it'd generate buzz. As of now, with the fandom in a hyper-sensitive state, I'm not so sure.

Edited November 19, 2016 by looptab

[Belinea]

5 minutes ago, looptab said:

As for Stephen, I meant, in past times, a move like that would be smart in that people would get all riled up and it'd generate buzz. As of now, with the fandom in a hyper-sensitive state, I'm not so sure.

I wish people would stop reacting altogether and maybe his comment about apathy will hit a little closer to home for him not the viewer. Kind of like: Fool me once, shame on me.... 

[looptab]

5 minutes ago, Belinea said:

I wish people would stop reacting altogether and maybe his comment about apathy will hit a little closer to home for him not the viewer. Kind of like: Fool me once, shame on me.... 

Agreed. I actually expressed the same sentiment a couple weeks back. It's just not worth it.

[Chaser]

I don't know if I would really consider that trolling. It's not like he just posted a photo with KC. He also posted the one with JB and ST. And I'm thinking he will post more.

[way2interested]

So from that interview with TR in the media thread, it does kind of sound like he's around longer than 509, but it also still partially sounds to me like just roundabout comments about things that will probably happen in 509 anyway (being a detective, relationship stuff with Felicity) and nothing much else, so I'm still siding with the idea that something's up with him in 509. Whether he would be evil (pushing the good guy cover so far that it would be a *twist*) or will stay good and sacrifice himself for the city/Felicity (which he is kind of setting up with the way he's describing his character) is still a mystery to me.

Or he will be sticking around in the background for longer with the same amount of story importance/screen time he has now (very little), but there's still something up in 509.