Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Morrigan2575]

E. It means absolutely nothing of importance since they've used that "end of a chapter" line almost as often as Game Changer.

[statsgirl]

(wishful thinking):

F.  The Havenrock story is wrapped up.  Felicity and Diggle return to their usual states.

[quarks]

36 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

E. It means absolutely nothing of importance since they've used that "end of a chapter" line almost as often as Game Changer.

I also live for the day when Arrow excitedly tells us that the next episode is a "GAME CHANGER" and in it, Oliver sulkily throws away the Monopoly board and announced that from now on, Team Arrow and Team Baby Arrow can only play Settlers of Catan.

[fangirlforever320]

8 hours ago, quarks said:

No. Olicity isn't a chapter. It's a book.

The reference is presumably to:

a. The formation of Team Baby Arrows.

b. The Tobias Church plot. 

c. Oliver realizing who the real threat this season is: Prometheus. TA-DUM!  

Cue Prometheus finally doing something other than showing up in the last 30 seconds of an episode. 

Hi! I'm new. My thought is b. Tobias Church. They've said he's a 5a villain and they might wanna get him done before crossovers/midseason. Definitely not Olicity. 

[EmeraldArcher]

4 hours ago, fangirlforever320 said:

Hi! I'm new. My thought is b. Tobias Church. They've said he's a 5a villain and they might wanna get him done before crossovers/midseason. Definitely not Olicity. 

Hey there!  Welcome to our Arrow-obsessed world!

[Morrigan2575]

Welcome @fangirlforever320 ?

[Morrigan2575]

I'm reevaluating my theory on Prometheus,  i don't think it's Chase. They've already hinted that Vigilante is the guy with goggles that Felicity wanted to bring onto the team in 501/502. I don't see how he can be both?

Edited October 24, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[fangirlforever320]

I'm holding on to Tommy as Prometheus. It's just my favorite theory out there, though there are SO many good ones and I love hearing all of them. A pit-crazed Tommy would be heartbreaking and would explain why Malcolm was so opposed to dipping Thea in the waters (and how he knew how to quench her bloodlust).

[Morrigan2575]

I personally hate that theory because it makes Tommy a bad guy and I love Tommy. I hate that they killed him off but,  at least he went out as a hero.

[Ophanim]

One possibility regarding Prometheus: it's Dark version of Oliver, some version from Earth X, as in some alternative world "what if scenario" where he didnt met Diggle, Felicity and other people who made impact on him as person who he is today. How: answer is always Flashpoint. Why is P. angry and hate O? Well, this is where my theory falls flat :) 

[apinknightmare]

I don't want Tommy to be Prometheus because A) I don't really like him that much so I'd prefer not to see him again, and B) I really don't want to see anyone else who's supposed to be dead showing up in anything other than a flashback. I'm already irritated about Laurel showing up in whatever capacity even though I'm guessing it's going to be as Black Siren, because no way can these turds resist the predictable drama of having Oliver and crew see their friend alive again, only THIS TIME SHE'S EVIL!!11!!!!

I don't know who Prometheus is, but the odds are that the reveal is going to be stupid. I'll be really surprised (and happy) if it isn't.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Hey there @fangirlforever320, welcome!

That's an interesting theory, @Lidach. But haven't the EPs said Prometheus was basically "created" by Oliver through his actions in S1? Bringing in another version of Oliver from another earth doesn't quite fit that, I think.

I like the Tommy theory even though that would be a logistical nightmare. I heard a great spec for it and I would love to see something like that. All character conflict. But bringing Tommy back would mean bringing back that horrible love triangle from S1. I just can't take any more mentions of LL. 

4 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I don't know who Prometheus is, but the odds are that the reveal is going to be stupid. I'll be really surprised (and happy) if it isn't.

Yeah, I'm kinda wary of the reveal because it's going to be as stupid as Malcolm Merlyn killing Sara Lance to get out of the blood bounty or whatever. It'll be something so convoluted that it won't make much sense. These writers are the worst when they're trying to be clever. 

[fangirlforever320]

27 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I personally hate that theory because it makes Tommy a bad guy and I love Tommy. I hate that they killed him off but,  at least he went out as a hero.

I actually ADORE Tommy. I've never gotten over him being killed off in season 1. But I believe his "destiny" before they decided to go that route was to make him a villain, so this would be a way to do that. As a way to close the 5 year journey, it really feels satisfying. 

21 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Yeah, I'm kinda wary of the reveal because it's going to be as stupid as Malcolm Merlyn killing Sara Lance to get out of the blood bounty or whatever. It'll be something so convoluted that it won't make much sense. These writers are the worst when they're trying to be clever. 

Thanks for the welcome! And I gotta agree with this. Whatever theory the fans come up with, the actual reality is likely to be far less interesting (and sensical). Which is a shame. I'm STILL scratching my head over the Sara Lance thing. 

[dtissagirl]

I always get stuck on the real life logistics of how can it be Tommy with Colin Donnell living in Chicago and shooting like, seventeen shows at once.

[statsgirl]

The thing that makes me most think it's not Tommy is that they would need to re-cast since Colin Donnell is very busy over on Chicago Med.  As much as this show is like a soap opera at times, to recast would take the "zing" out of the reveal.  (Also it would bring Malcolm Merlyn back in a big way and I don't want that.  I'm happy to leave Tommy/Lazarus Pit to fanfic.)

I'm still hoping it's going to be Det. Mayo.   WM said that he's unlike anyone Felicity has dated before (being a true villain would be worse than Cooper who fell into ti accidentally and both Oliver and Ray are on the side of fighting bad guys like a cop is), and that he's a straight-shooter and she hopes we grow to like him.  It would be just like that to take someone they have told us again and again is a good guy and reveal that he's bad.  They would think they're sooooo clever.

[Cleanqueen]

5 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

I always get stuck on the real life logistics of how can it be Tommy with Colin Donnell living in Chicago and shooting like, seventeen shows at once.

Plus the fact that if Colin is spotted in Vancouver the paparazzi will have spoiled it and people will know for sure he's Prometheus. 

[dtissagirl]

Just now, Cleanqueen said:

Plus the fact that if Colin is spotted in Vancouver the paparazzi will have spoiled it and people will know for sure he's Prometheus. 

Yup. Once Upon a Time has snuck actors onto set without alerting the paps [driving instead of flying, staying in crew members' houses rather than the usual hotels], but it was for a one episode gig. It makes it harder to do it for several episodes, and if the reveal of Prometheus' identity happens mid season, then they'd need Colin on set for more than one episode.

[thegirlsleuth]

The one thing that might make Colin possible would be the fact that Prometheus is masked.  You could have a stunt man silently running around except for a couple of key scenes and have Colin show up for one or two episodes.  I think it is unlikely, but it is possible.

[lemotomato]

Could they just use a soap opera trope and say it's Tommy without actually needing Colin/using Colin's face? Like at some point after coming back from the dead Tommy got his face all scarred up and is unrecognizable, they could just use another actor and put makeup on him. 

[calliope1975]

I'm torn. Part of me would love to see Tommy back because I loved both Tommy and CD. The other part of me is thrilled CD has been successful post-Arrow and wants him to stay far, far away.

I suspect whatever callback to S1 that is Prometheus will ultimately end up in me feeling whelmed. 

[ComicFan777]

In the past episodes, did we ever see Evelyn get training with a bow/arrow?
In the pics for 5x4 she is using one out in the field already...makes it seem really easy for anyone to pick up archery, I guess.

[dtissagirl]

Yeah, I mean, maybe it IS Flashpoint-related and Tommy literally looks like somebody else. I just figure the point of it being Tommy is it being Tommy as we know him, you know? Any kind of Tommy-lite, masked, or scarred, or not saying much... and it's gold medalist on the stupid olympics.

[lemotomato]

3 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

Yeah, I mean, maybe it IS Flashpoint-related and Tommy literally looks like somebody else. I just figure the point of it being Tommy is it being Tommy as we know him, you know? Any kind of Tommy-lite, masked, or scarred, or not saying much... and it's gold medalist on the stupid olympics.

This is the Arrow writing crew we're talking about, though. They've won multiple medals in the stupid Olympics already, IMO.

[Lily-n11]

With all this talk about Prometheus and the possibility of Tommy being him I remembered something I read on the imdb Arrow board. PapDouce has an account there and he shared some of his "knowledge". I don't want to crush your hopes about Tommy coming back but I don't want anyone to set themselves up to disapointment either. We may not like him but we trust him with spoilers most of the time, right? So I'm gonna bring this over:

Quote

post 1:  Prometheus is not Tommy. They have an actor for it already, and Colin has a full time gig on a much more popular show. Hes not risking losing that job to guest star on Arrow.

post 2:  Well, I know who it is.... that's all that matters.
As for "easily film two shows". No, he cant... if one of those is Arrow. Two shows, sure, long as they are both on NBC. NBC will N-E-V-E-R let him do Arrow even as a guest spot. Only way he gets a spot on Arrow is if he gets fired from NBC. Hes only in year two of his deal and NBC doesn't share with other networks (which is more or less the standard of the main 4 networks as a whole).
IF Arrow filmed off season, he could shoot an ep or 2 in his time off.... but they don't. So, the next time you will see Tommy Merlyn on Arrow is IF somehow Arrow outlives his NBC deal, which is at least 4, and probably 5 or 6 years as that's the industry standard length for a network regular. So, yeah, if they haven't shown who Prometheus is by season 8, it could be Tommy lol.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, ComicFan777 said:

In the past episodes, did we ever see Evelyn get training with a bow/arrow?
In the pics for 5x4 she is using one out in the field already...makes it seem really easy for anyone to pick up archery, I guess.

If this is the episode where Felicity has to decide whether the new recruits are ready to go out in the field, it's possible that Evelyn doesn't actually know how to use the bow/arrow properly and she goes out too soon? Otherwise, yeah, WTF. She's had zero training.

Also, LOL, one of the pics on SpoilerTV looks like Oliver and Diggle walking through the hallways of Nanda Parbat. Get some new sets already OMG.

[Sunshine]

I guess she picked up the bow in honor of Green Arrow in 4.19?  First emulate BC then GA.  LOL!  Maybe she's a natural.  6 months could make her proficient if not an expert.  All the training with it has been off screen like Carrie Cutter's.

Is that random dude or Oliver in the scene with Ragman and suit & tie guy?  I am wondering how Rory's response to Felicity's admission about Havenrock is going to play out.  Will Felicity have a role or is 5.03 her POV one and done?

Edited October 24, 2016 by Sunshine

[Morrigan2575]

32 minutes ago, Lily-n11 said:

With all this talk about Prometheus and the possibility of Tommy being him I remembered something I read on the imdb Arrow board. PapDouce has an account there and he shared some of his "knowledge". I don't want to crush your hopes about Tommy coming back but I don't want anyone to set themselves up to disapointment either. We may not like him but we trust him with spoilers most of the time, right? So I'm gonna bring this over:

So i read through your post really fast and I'm like who is this Papa Deuce guy and why is he acting like he's a big shit?  LOL

I had to re-read your post before i realized who it was.

I'm guessing he knows because they already cast the character and the actor filmed for 509 or was up in Vancouver early? Unless it's already another character which then brings me back to Chase or Malone? 

Edited October 24, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[Lily-n11]

I don't know. I have not seen him giving hints about who "that" actor is. (And apparently I don't know how to spell Douche. But I was so close.)

Edited October 24, 2016 by Lily-n11

[Guest]

I'm still leaning towards Chase as Prometheus. He could get on Oliver/GA's good side (a la Sebastian Blood in s2) and then it falls apart from there. IDK. I really have no idea.

I hope it's not Mayo Bread though. He's not the right actor. So far he's had no screen presence at all. I do hope he works for Prometheus though. At least it'll make him something more than some bland stale loaf of bread that Felicity happens to date for some reason I still don't know.

[apinknightmare]

I just don't get the point of having Chase be Vigilante and also Prometheus. Seems like such a hassle, haha. 

[Guest]

So now Diggle is excusing Barry erasing baby Sara?! HULK SMASH.

 

Just now, apinknightmare said:

I just don't get the point of having Chase be Vigilante and also Prometheus. Seems like such a hassle, haha. 

Yeah, I know. I just wouldn't put anything past these writers tbh. Haha.

[Morrigan2575]

I was leaning that way but, Felicity already mentioned Goggles guy as a vigilante running around SC. That would mean Chase was Prometheus and Vigilante already. I could easily see him starting as Vigilante and becoming Prometheus afterwards but,  i have a hard time seeing him as being both simultaneously 

Just now, Angel12d said:

So now Diggle is excusing Barry erasing baby Sara?! HULK SMASH.

I missed that. Interview? 

[calliope1975]

I'm confused about crossover spoilers. Discussion goes here? 

Quote

"Much more compassionately than you might think," Ramsey said. "Diggle can't miss anything he's never had and 'Flashpoint' changes history -- it changes his history directly -- so he never can really miss Baby Sara anymore, becuase he never had her, but he is concerned about Barry. Barry's actions were reckless, and with all that power, being reckless -- to someone as disciplined as Diggle -- comes as a shock."

Shock me, shock me, shock me that Barry gets concern instead of anger directed at him. I understand the character doesn't know what he's had changed about his life, but this is more BS regarding Barry and consequences. Honestly, I really just wanted Digg to do a beat down of Barry. Someone needs to smack him. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I missed that. Interview? 

It was just posted in SPOILERS. 

EDIT: Or what @calliope1975 just quoted.

Edited October 24, 2016 by Guest

[apinknightmare]

1 minute ago, Angel12d said:

So now Diggle is excusing Barry erasing baby Sara?! HULK SMASH

I love that DR said Diggle would handle it "much more compassionately than you might think," like...nah, I expect everyone to be super compassionate to poor Barry!

[lemotomato]

Ye gods, how does Barry manage to run with so many people kissing his ass all the time? 

[Morrigan2575]

Just now, Angel12d said:

It was just posted in SPOILERS. 

EDIT: Or what @calliope1975 just quoted.

Yep, i went and looked after reading your post. What was that about Barry suffering consequences again? LOL

[Guest]

Just now, apinknightmare said:

I love that DR said Diggle would handle it "much more compassionately than you might think," like...nah, I expect everyone to be super compassionate to poor Barry!

Exactly. But I want someone to straight-up punch him in the face and be mad at him. I know DR has a point, that Diggle won't remember baby Sara, but that's not the larger problem here.

[calliope1975]

I suppose that begs the question - who tells Digg he used to have Sara? Barry? Felicity? How and why would this come out? I can picture Barry apologizing to a confused Digg because Barry feels bad. Ugh, Barry is the worst!

[Guest]

Just now, calliope1975 said:

I suppose that begs the question - who tells Digg he used to have Sara? Barry? Felicity? How and why would this come out? I can picture Barry apologizing to a confused Digg because Barry feels bad. Ugh, Barry is the worst!

Who knows? But Diggle will probably forgive Barry and then turn to Felicity and be like "YOU should have told me!" LMAO. It honestly wouldn't surprise me. We've already had reporters blaming Felicity for it. 

[bijoux]

There's a camera on a tripod in one of the stills with the noobs. Are they dealing with a hostage situation? It may have been mention, but I honestly forgot.

[apinknightmare]

It's weird because DR's right - why would Diggle be mad at Barry? All Diggle's ever known is his son, because Barry erased everything else. Same goes with Barry erasing everything else - what are they going to be mad at? They don't remember anything he's changed. That's what makes it frustrating for the viewer because WE do. And his life just moves on all hunky-dory without any of this really affecting him personally, like, one of his friends needs to ditch his ass just for being dumb enough to do it (and he could've done it however many times - they'd never know). 

Anyway - I'm interested in how Digg finds out as well - hopefully Barry sacks up and tells him himself (but then he'd probably subsequently throw Felicity under the bus or something, haha). 

[statsgirl]

It's Diggle feeling compassionate towards Barry because he's "concerned about Barry. Barry's actions were reckless, and with all that power, being reckless -- to someone as disciplined as Diggle -- comes as a shock."

I swear, it's an infectious disease, like the ones on zombie shows that turn your brain to mush.  Except in this case, it makes everyone worried about Barry and forgive whatever selfish thing he does to hurt them.

The bit at the bottom of the article that they had to do this to produce John Diggle Jr. aka Connor Hawke in 2046 is ridiculous.  That Connor Hawke sure didn't look 36 to me.

[Guest]

They didn't have to do this at all. They could've just given baby Sara a little brother next season or something. 

[thegirlsleuth]

So unless this as an opportunity to teach Felicity a very important lesson about how she, too, is guilty of keeping secrets--ugh!--the only reason for the Sara/John Jr. switch was to fulfill a plot point on Legends. It doesn't seem they plan to build conflict or create character moments for Barry and Diggle at all.

I'm trying to figure out if it is because I spend a lot of time talking to like minded people, but are other viewers/critics bothered by Barry's actions? Are the writers making conscious choices to make him morally gray, or are they ruining his character accidentally?

[Sakura12]

They didn't need to get rid of Sara to have John Jr. for Legends. People can have more than one kid. 

[dtissagirl]

All I want for Christmas is for Lyla to punch Barry in the face one time or seventeen.

[Thundercatmary]

9 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

They didn't need to get rid of Sara to have John Jr. for Legends. People can have more than one kid. 

This exactly, I mean I wanted baby Sara to grow up and be the new Arrow, but at least let her live! 

I wish one of the Arrow characters would ask what I think is an obvious question, when finding out about baby Sara being erased, of who exactly is keeping an eye on Barry to make sure he doesn't accidentally erase someone else lol.

Edited October 24, 2016 by Thundercatmary

[bijoux]

4 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

They didn't need to get rid of Sara to have John Jr. for Legends. People can have more than one kid. 

Maybe SC introduced communist China's one child policy while we weren't looking. Although why they'd be opposed to rising citizens numbers when they are losing them to massive attacks and them fleeing in droves, I couldn't tell you.

[LeighAn]

23 minutes ago, thegirlsleuth said:

So unless this as an opportunity to teach Felicity a very important lesson about how she, too, is guilty of keeping secrets--ugh!--the only reason for the Sara/John Jr. switch was to fulfill a plot point on Legends. It doesn't seem they plan to build conflict or create character moments for Barry and Diggle at all.

I'm trying to figure out if it is because I spend a lot of time talking to like minded people, but are other viewers/critics bothered by Barry's actions? Are the writers making conscious choices to make him morally gray, or are they ruining his character accidentally?

Ive only seen Chris E Hayner and Laura Hurley be openly critical of Barry but then again Chris E Hayner also blamed Felicity for not telling Diggle about Sara and specifically referred to her as a hypocrite So that doesnt help much, since he basically absolved Barry of blame.