Spoiler Discussion Thread

[bijoux]

The screener not creating buzz is not their fault. On the other hand, they haven't released any sneak peeks yet either. There has been one line teased by the writers's room but that's all.

[Cleanqueen]

Yeah all I've seen is promo for the 100th episode and I get it since the cast is having their party this week but dang there's at least 5 episodes happening before that event. I hope Emily and David do some PR stuff next week to promote 5x04 since it'll be felicity and diggle focused. Also does this cast not care anymore? I find it odd nobody tweets pictures reminding their viewers to watch the episode. I miss the good ol days ;(

[RussianRoulette]

1 hour ago, bijoux said:

The screener not creating buzz is not their fault. On the other hand, they haven't released any sneak peeks yet either. There has been one line teased by the writers's room but that's all.

I definitely agree with you re: screener. 

But the antiquated ways of doing PR are on them though. They fail at engaging fans online because they do not care about doing so (and, for me, the lack of resources is just a flimsy excuse- I think they can spare the budget for at least! one social media savvy employee). 

What they employ or rather deploy  are tactics (and bad ones at that) when they need strategy/ies. 

I totally forgot that there was a new episode on tonight. I was planning to watch Lethal Weapon live. At least they know how to engage fans (sure, it's a new show but still!). At some point it feels like CW peeps are ungrateful to the fans for the sake of their own ~storytelling purposes (read: ego). 

[apinknightmare]

If they're trying to get buzz with the Deadshot reveal, this is pathetic effort even for them. Admittedly I don't follow Suzanne Gomez or the Arrow account on twitter, but I did just look at those two as well as MG's and it doesn't seem as if anyone RT'ed the GATV spoiler - or released one of their own?

Edited October 19, 2016 by apinknightmare

[lemotomato]

No other media outlet has announced the Deadshot spoiler as far as I can tell, so GA/TV could be lying to cover his ass for all we know.  IGN just reported it.

As for episode-related promo, I saw a link this morning to an interview with Cody at comicbookresources, but that's about it.

Edited October 19, 2016 by lemotomato

[calliope1975]

I think I was supposed to see Deadshot returning as shocking, but honestly, I have zero surprise that he'd pop up again. I always figured he'd be back at some point. 

I find it amusing that the company Troika, who the CW hired to rebrand their network (they came up with the "Defy" campaign) is currently engaged in a study on fandom and how to engage viewers to, of course, sell your product. Yet the CW continues to suck so badly at promotion and social media. 

I kinda feel bad for Cody. He has been working hard to promote this episode, but I haven't seen a lot of enthusiasm for it. Poor guy. It does seem weird that the cast is mostly silent, too. I suppose Echo go bored with SnapChat or everyone is too busy for the BTS stuff, but I think it really added a lot to the show. Bummer.

[lemotomato]

The show was overly reliant on the cast picking up the PR slack even last season. Back then they had EK, Charlotte Ross, and PB doing the heavy lifting, and SA enamored with Facebook Live/Snapchat. But now CR isn't there, EK and PB have gone silent, and SA is too busy. There seems to be a clampdown on spoilers (I have no idea what episodes 6 and 7 are going to be about). Add fan indifference to the mix, and there's the huge PR vacuum. 

There was more chatter about Arrow during hiatus, even on this board.

Edited October 19, 2016 by lemotomato

[GirlvsTV]

I've actually been thinking the cast may have been told to cool it with the bts stuff to avoid spoilers getting out. So, so dumb since most of the spoilers that came from stuff like that were minor and they created buzz for the show.

Also, they could create social media buzz with very little, if any, money. It would require spending time on it, though.

Edited October 19, 2016 by GirlvsTV

[Cleanqueen]

The cast doesn't even necessarily need to post BTS content they just need to be active and engage with fans. I notice that the flash cast posts pictures of their promo stuff all over their SM to let fans know. For Arrow right now it looks like both the actors and the fans alike don't care for the show. I guess since they have syndication, it doesn't matter to them. 

[RussianRoulette]

29 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

I think I was supposed to see Deadshot returning as shocking, but honestly, I have zero surprise that he'd pop up again. I always figured he'd be back at some point. 

I find it amusing that the company Troika, who the CW hired to rebrand their network (they came up with the "Defy" campaign) is currently engaged in a study on fandom and how to engage viewers to, of course, sell your product. Yet the CW continues to suck so badly at promotion and social media. 

I kinda feel bad for Cody. He has been working hard to promote this episode, but I haven't seen a lot of enthusiasm for it. Poor guy. It does seem weird that the cast is mostly silent, too. I suppose Echo go bored with SnapChat or everyone is too busy for the BTS stuff, but I think it really added a lot to the show. Bummer.

Well to be fair I think that have to first conduct an audit on their PR strategy (LOLOLOL! Sorry! Or lack thereof, it will be quick).

I know the company, they are pretty reliable, but they can't do miracles.

The defy campaign was pretty good but failed to address gbs right audience. 

IF I were the CW  I would focus on change management as well as focus on digital transformation issues. It would go a long way. But that'a just me. /professional rant: over! 

[dtissagirl]

I actually wonder if the CW PR folk even realize the O/F fans who used to organize weekly trends + alerted their followers about every tweet worth of an RT aren't doing it anymore. Those folks were getting tens of thousands of Twitter interactions for Arrow every week, and they're gone now.

[calliope1975]

15 minutes ago, RussianRoulette said:

Well to be fair I think that have to first conduct an audit on their PR strategy (LOLOLOL! Sorry! Or lack thereof, it will be quick).

I know the company, they are pretty reliable, but they can't do miracles.

The defy campaign was pretty good but failed to address gbs right audience. 

IF I were the CW  I would focus on change management as well as focus on digital transformation issues. It would go a long way. But that'a just me. /professional rant: over! 

Oh, I didn't mean to imply that Troika is working with the CW on PR or marketing currently. I just thought there was a bit of irony in the CW being so bad at their job and Troika studying how to engage fandom. 

Too bad you aren't working for CW marketing. Or, you know, my cat, who could still do a better job.

[EmilyBettFan]

Remember though, apparently they don't want us/those people anymore. They want those measly 80,000 comic fans.

Funny considering they've lost like x5 that number of viewers and have lost the Olicity effect on Twitter/tumblr/Facebook because of all the bullshit/misogyny and hate.

Edited October 19, 2016 by EmilyBettFan

[RussianRoulette]

1 minute ago, calliope1975 said:

Oh, I didn't mean to imply that Troika is working with the CW on PR or marketing currently. I just thought there was a bit of irony in the CW being so bad at their job and Troika studying how to engage fandom. 

Too bad you aren't working for CW marketing. Or, you know, my cat, who could still do a better job.

Your cat would do a better job for sure! I absolutely love your post. I'm LMAO'ing in my office! 

[quarks]

1 hour ago, dtissagirl said:

I actually wonder if the CW PR folk even realize the O/F fans who used to organize weekly trends + alerted their followers about every tweet worth of an RT aren't doing it anymore. Those folks were getting tens of thousands of Twitter interactions for Arrow every week, and they're gone now.

Monitoring that is part of their job, or should be though. 

1 hour ago, EmilyBettFan said:

Remember though, apparently they don't want us/those people anymore. They want those measly 80,000 comic fans.

Illustrating the problem: MG specifically said the direct opposite of this within the last week. The quote:

Quote

I don’t think that comic fans matter less than non-comic fans.  What I’ve said in the past is that a hit comic sells 80,000 copies.  80,000 viewers means you’re canceled immediately.  In other words, a TV show – or for that matter, a film – needs to reach beyond comic book fans in order to survive.  That’s just simple math.

 

And yet here, a very engaged fan who reads all of the interviews/PR and has previously mentioned purchasing Arrow related products is saying that the showrunners don't want non-comic fans. This isn't an isolated fan or statement.

This is a pretty major disconnect, similar to the huge disconnect between the way 502 was marketed and what actually happened in that episode.  So the question is, why/how, given this quote, and given that Arrow has a history of deviating from the comics and/or killing/sending off comics canon characters, has Arrow convinced EmilyBettFan and others that the show cares more about comic fans than non comic fans?

That, to me, is the interesting question, though I fear answering/exploring it further will veer off into fan talk and people hitting me with dead horses or telling me I need to eat more hats.

So instead, I'll just note, YAY DEADSHOT. 

[calliope1975]

Quote

“We talked a lot about that storyline, and Rory’s point of view and Felicity’s point of view,” Guggenheim said. “It was fun to actually get a chance to articulate the anti-Felicity point of the view and the pro-Felicity point of view. It made for a very interesting moral dilemma, and we got a chance to play with that.”

Why do I have the feeling that the anti-Felicity point of view won't be immediately shut down? I get why cute, magical rags guy is upset, but his sadness needs to be the ONLY anti-Felicity viewpoint. I can't think of any other valid argument, or at least one that would be presented well, and I feel like anything TIIC present will be based on [self redacting because of board rules but I assume you get where I would be going with this.] 

I almost wish she'd let all the nukes explode instead of this nonsense. However, I'll enjoy watching EBR play this as long as DTH is no where to be found. 

[Morrigan2575]

Just now, calliope1975 said:

Why do I have the feeling that the anti-Felicity point of view won't be immediately shut down? I get why cute, magical rags guy is upset, but his sadness needs to be the ONLY anti-Felicity viewpoint. I can't think of any other valid argument, or at least one that would be presented well, and I feel like anything TIIC present will be based on [self redacting because of board rules but I assume you get where I would be going with this.] 

I almost wish she'd let all the nukes explode instead of this nonsense. However, I'll enjoy watching EBR play this as long as DTH is no where to be found. 

I don't think they'll do a good job with it but, i don't think their intent is to cheer on the anti-Felicity Havenrock actions POV.

[lemotomato]

MG was surprised at the unintended anti-Felicity audience reaction to Havenrock, so they're going to have "fun" exploring it in-show. 

But when he was surprised at the anti-Oliver reaction with the BM lie, they tied the other characters into knots to justify/absolve Oliver's decision. Alrighty, then. 

[Cleanqueen]

Yes Oliver had the chance to chat up with everyone even a new superhero in town after the BMD but Felicity didn't get a single scene where her feelings were explored in the matter. But hey let's make it "fun" to now explore the anti-Felicity camp and throw this character under the bus yet again by not having her POV expressed in any shape or form. I can already see it Ragmans POV will be filled with rhetoric from the arrow subreddit.

[BkWurm1]

5 hours ago, RussianRoulette said:

Indeed! Poor dude has been at it all summer long. And he has sound genuinely excited. He must be quite disappointed by the CW promo monkeys' half-assed attempts at ~generating buzz (or lack thereof). 

I have to say, Cody has won me over at least about him.  I like how earnest and humble and appreciative he is.  Can't help compare his interviews to Wild Dog's where I came away really not liking him.  I don't particularly think today's episode sounds that exciting but I'm pulling for it for Cody's sake.  He might be a terrible actor for all I know but he's obviously tried so hard and it matters to me that he cares among this vacuum of apathy.  

[Morrigan2575]

2 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

MG was surprised at the unintended anti-Felicity audience reaction to Havenrock, so they're going to have "fun" exploring it in-show. 

But when he was surprised at the anti-Oliver reaction with the BM lie, they tied the other characters into knots to justify/absolve Oliver's decision. Alrighty, then. 

Oh that's easy. Oliver is the big fat hero. It's easier to be more open and flexible on a supporting characters storyline than it is the heroes.

Alternatively,  MG could have come up with the BMD Lie and that's why he got so defensive.  Whereas a different EP or writer came up with the Havenrock stuff so he's more open to alternative discussions.

[calliope1975]

9 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Alternatively,  MG could have come up with the BMD Lie and that's why he got so defensive.  Whereas a different EP or writer came up with the Havenrock stuff so he's more open to alternative discussions.

I wouldn't be surprised. I remember his defense on Tumblr being nonsensical but also very adamant.

I think I'm just overly sensitive to anything MG says since it's usually rage inducing for me. Plus, his story telling ability is questionable combined with a complete inability to read an audience. I need a drink and a massage. 

[apinknightmare]

 

I hope Oliver walks in on Felicity getting Mayo on her hands, then goes out and does something stupid, and Felicity (after breaking up with her former favorite condiment) then walks on Oliver doing something stupid, just so it can all be as messy and dramatic as possible pls. 

[Cleanqueen]

3 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

 

I hope Oliver walks in on Felicity getting Mayo on her hands, then goes out and does something stupid, and Felicity (after breaking up with her former favorite condiment) then walks on Oliver doing something stupid, just so it can all be as messy and dramatic as possible pls. 

Why are these writers so pathetic. It's 2016 and this is the best they could come up with. Tragic.

[calliope1975]

9 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

 

I hope Oliver walks in on Felicity getting Mayo on her hands, then goes out and does something stupid, and Felicity (after breaking up with her former favorite condiment) then walks on Oliver doing something stupid, just so it can all be as messy and dramatic as possible pls. 

Why do you want to hurt me? :p

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

Why do you want to hurt me? :p

I'm so annoyed! This is like the Baby Mama Drama just hanging out there like a lingering fart looming over everything. Just get it over with. 

[calliope1975]

3 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I'm so annoyed! This is like the Baby Mama Drama just hanging out there like a lingering fart looming over everything. Just get it over with. 

Ah yes, I do agree with you. The earlier this ends, the earlier I can actually enjoy the show. 

[Velocity23]

[dtissagirl]

UGH, Guggenheim. WHY must you always make everything worse than it already is? I'm cursing you with leg cramp and pink eye and toenail fungus ALL AT THE SAME TIME, dude.

Felicity is gonna have her ~big scene~ with Human Target!Oliver while Oliver is boning the reporter, isn't she?

[Cleanqueen]

OK the write up by GATV is actually better. I hate Marcus, why cant the actually promote what is in the episode instead of pissing ppl off?

[apinknightmare]

1 minute ago, Cleanqueen said:

OK the write up by GATV is actually better. I hate Marcus, why cant the actually promote what is in the episode instead of pissing ppl off?

90% sure ragey hate tweets turn him on. 

[Morrigan2575]

5 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

OK the write up by GATV is actually better. I hate Marcus, why cant the actually promote what is in the episode instead of pissing ppl off?

 

2 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

90% sure ragey hate tweets turn him on. 

Huh? Sorry this is Greek to me. Who is Marcus? What does that have to do with GATV write up and where is said write up? 

[wonderwall]

5 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

 

Huh? Sorry this is Greek to me. Who is Marcus? What does that have to do with GATV write up and where is said write up? 

This part was good

[Morrigan2575]

Thank you!

[Cleanqueen]

19 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

 

Huh? Sorry this is Greek to me. Who is Marcus? What does that have to do with GATV write up and where is said write up? 

Marc G aka Marcus to me..lol

[lemotomato]

GA/TV guy justified putting Felicity on his "best villains" poll because he blamed her for Havenrock. I'm not reassured by anything he'd say as far as Felicity is concerned.

[Cleanqueen]

3 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

GA/TV guy justified putting Felicity on his "best villains" poll because he blamed her for Havenrock. I'm not reassured by anything he'd say as far as Felicity is concerned.

I think he said that in large part was the reason why some folks nominated her for villain because of the actions she took. I don't think he necessarily agreed but. I normally am not one to root for him.

[lemotomato]

9 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

I think he said that in large part was the reason why some folks nominated her for villain because of the actions she took. I don't think he necessarily agreed but. I normally am not one to root for him.

For me, unfortunately, he's reached the point where I'm opposed to anything he says. But I'm just going to wait for the episode to speak for itself. 

[Chaser]

All these interviews suck. I'm still in wait and see.

In one of the photos it looked like Heatwave was holding the umbrella for Felicity and now I'm really disappointed he wasn't. 

[Carrie Ann]

My problem with MG's comments was not about how it would play on screen--though I do still have some concerns about that--but about his legitimizing that line of criticism on some "gotta see both sides" bullshit. The "anti-Felicity" position on this issue is exactly that, IMO. It's people who are anti-Felicity finding something else to blame her for. Otherwise, really not sure how you can look at a scenario that says "Madman's Bomb Kills Millions VS Madman's Bomb Kills Thousands" and think she is to blame for thousands of lives lost when in fact she is responsible for millions of lives saved.

At the same time, of course I expected Rory to have some bad feelings about her and her choice (and she should too). That is normal. I don't think he should be expected to logic his way out of being devastated and tying that to her, obviously. But everyone else around Felicity should be able to do that, and apparently they all need to do it, explicitly and repeatedly, in order to get that point across to the viewers who didn't get it the first time around.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Carrie Ann

[bijoux]

6 minutes ago, Chasity said:

http://collider.com/arrow-season-5-marc-guggenheim-interview/#images 

Quote

 

Question: This episode had a lot of in-jokes about Cody Rhodes’ wrestling persona. Were those intentional nods?

MARC GUGGENHEIM: In the case of Stardust, the drug had to be called Stardust. With the hockey mask, I just said to the writers, “If we don’t do a hockey mask joke, then it’s a missed opportunity and we should all be fired.” I think it was Emilio Aldrich who came up with doing it in the elevator, the way that you see it. And Stephen totally embraced all of it. I emailed him and said, “We have to do a hockey mask joke.” And he was like, “Oh, absolutely!” That stuff is fun. I love doing meta-humor, as long as it doesn’t become too distracting and it’s subtle. If you know who Cody is and you know that his wrestling identity is Stardust, then you get a little charge out of that. And if you don’t, the episode plays totally fine. It’s like when we had Steve Aoki on Arrow in Season 1. I had no idea who Steve Aoki is, but I could watch the episode perfectly fine. But if you know who Steve Aoki is, it was fun to watch him in Verdant.

 

Doing what in an elevator? Is a part of the answer missing? Because this doesn't make sense.

[Chasity]

2 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Doing what in an elevator? Is a part of the answer missing? Because this doesn't make sense.

I think he's talking about the hockey mask joke being done in an elevator.

[dtissagirl]

7 minutes ago, Carrie Ann said:

My problem with MG's comments was not about how it would play on screen--though I do still have some concerns about that--but about his legitimizing that line of criticism on some "gotta see both sides" bullshit. The "anti-Felicity" position on this issue is exactly that, IMO. It's people who are anti-Felicity finding something else to blame her for.

Yeah. I'm now terrified these morons constructed Rory as a character and/or this storyline by using the negative reaction that ~surprised MG as the starting point. UGH.

[bijoux]

I thought the hockey mask joke was in the last episode when Oliver strung Wild Dog up and asked him if he just wanted to be a guy in a hockey mask.

[Chaser]

2 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

Yeah. I'm now terrified these morons constructed Rory as a character and/or this storyline by using the negative reaction that ~surprised MG as the starting point. UGH.

I had always assumed Rory was created for Felicity's Havenrock storyline but I don't like the thought he was created to play CL's role in Canaries. I don't need him to yell and beatdown Felicity as a mouthpiece for Haters. That would cause me to checkout so fast.

However, I am encouraged that they seem to be trying to create an actual character out of him.  Vertigo Sara was set up to deliver mocking one liners but giving Rory a counter POV would allow a diving point into Felicity's. IF done properly, which I know with these guys is a massive IF.

[Guest]

If I'm reading all of this correctly, I think it's all kinds of messed up that Felicity hater speech is actually going to be used on screen. So I have to see it online and see it in the episodes too? What kind of bullshit...

They better not mess this up and they really need to do this properly because this is literally the only thing they've given Felicity to do. Her Mayo Bread boyfriend is not a storyline. 

Seriously, they can't even give Felicity her own POV but they're giving haters one. I really hope there's a reason for this.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Guest

[Password]

Felicity's story is the last thread for me. I feel like I've waited since the end of season 2 to get a really decent Felicity storyline. If they mess this up I'm done. 

[catrox14]

There is no both sides here.  Damien Darkh is the villain. He's the one that launched the nukes.   Isn't his name in the news on Channel 52 now as the person responsible for the nuclear strike?  Why is Felicity even a target here. She saved millions of lives.. WTF is MG trying to pull here?

[wonderwall]

15 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

There is no both sides here.  Damien Darkh is the villain. He's the one that launched the nukes.   Isn't his name in the news on Channel 52 now as the person responsible for the nuclear strike?  Why is Felicity even a target here. She saved millions of lives.. WTF is MG trying to pull here?

To US, yeah there is only one side.

But maybe to a guy like Rory/Ragman, it isn't as simple because he's letting his emotions and anger speak for him (and not logic). Maybe Felicity doesn't feel like there's just one side to the story because there's guilt in her that she can't shake. 

Narratively, it makes sense that there are different points of views. But only the audience knows what's right and wrong (well most of the audience)

[Morrigan2575]

7 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

To US, yeah there is only one side.

But maybe to a guy like Rory/Ragman, it isn't as simple because he's letting his emotions and anger speak for him (and not logic). Maybe Felicity doesn't feel like there's just one side to the story because there's guilt in her that she can't shake. 

Narratively, it makes sense that there are different points of views. But only the audience knows what's right and wrong (well most of the audience)

Bingo! ??