Spoiler Discussion Thread

[apinknightmare]

If they do bring on another BLACK Canary, I hope someone goes down to the wharf and tapes an identifying number onto Laurel's statue.  

[RussianRoulette]

5 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

I do think Stephen genuinely posted that pic and I do think he was going to post a pic of him and Emily at the end. He knew it would be the best one and he saved the best for last. 

Yeah I don't think there is any ill-intent or passive-aggressiveness. Though I guess the timing is perfect to generate some much needed buzz for tonight's airing.

That said, I wil be the lone voice and say that I find that picture rather awkward. Don't know why. But again I do not care much for BTS pictures. They are nice sure but they do not influence my enjoyment (or lack of atm) of the show. 

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, JenMD said:

I hate that time travel on a show I don't watch affects the show I do watch.  These showrunners are all hacks.

I am curious to see how/if they introduce the switch.  I purposefully haven't told my sister about them deleting Sara (sniff) from existence to see her unspoiled reaction. 

I wonder if they won't even mention Dig's kid at all. 

Quote

This is where shit gets really wonky because they're trying to tie it all together. I think Barry ran to Felicity in October after realizing just how bad he screwed up. The use of the flashbacks in the narrative makes it seem like everything happens at the same time

I don't think that Barry got home to the supposed "fixed" timeline as of May and then time traveled a bunch of months to talk to Felicity.  

I watched the Flash episodes but I'm confused as to why we are saying that it was happening in October?  Was there some mention of the month that I forgot/missed?  Why is the idea of it being back to May off the table? 

Edited October 12, 2016 by BkWurm1

[way2interested]

5 minutes ago, RussianRoulette said:

Yeah I don't think there is any ill-intent or passive-aggressiveness. Though I guess the timing is perfect to generate some much needed buzz for tonight's airing.

I think it was mostly good intentions for him posting pics. On the pic of him with WH, he mentioned it's the last day of filming, so it seems pretty logical that he posts pics with each of his remaining cast members who are there that have been there since s1 genuinely. Instead of passive-aggressiveness though, I do think it's odd that the day after they try to go damage control, SA posts pics with his cast. It probably is just a coincidence since SA was posting pics for the 100th episode anyway, but changes from the normal media silence of the cast/crew/network from this point on are going get me to think the same thing, tbh.

[Cleanqueen]

13 minutes ago, RussianRoulette said:

 

That said, I wil be the lone voice and say that I find that picture rather awkward. Don't know why. But again I do not care much for BTS pictures. They are nice sure but they do not influence my enjoyment (or lack of atm) of the show. 

I love the picture, its awkward cause we've never seen them like that. I thought he would post another selfie where he looks like he'd rather be anywhere but there. His face is so red, they must've been laughing so hard before they took that picture. And emily looks beautiful as usual.

I like BTS stuff because to me I love seeing the cast sharing stuff they enjoy. I didn't care for Emily's random pictures before, but now that shes radio silent I'd do anything to have those pictures back. 

[JenMD]

1 minute ago, BkWurm1 said:

I wonder if they won't even mention Dig's kid at all. 

 

They can't really ignore it, can they?  Although, I'm coming up blank on how it's going to be explained.  

[Carrie Ann]

8 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I watched the Flash episodes but I'm confused as to why we are saying that it was happening in October?  Was their some mention of the month that I forgot/missed?

I think because Arrow (and The Flash) tend to follow real time (in a general sense, not like every episode takes place on a Wednesday and one week passes in between), so I generally date the premiere episode of Arrow to be about the actual real-world date (after that it's a crapshoot unless someone mentions a holiday).

I don't think they'll clarify when Barry talked to Felicity, but it makes the most sense to me that he would have shown back up in this timeline about a week ago, taken some time to settle in and figure out the dynamics he described to her, and gradually the freak-out would set in and he would run to talk to someone about it--someone he was hoping was unaffected by FP. It doesn't make sense with him arriving back on the porch he left in May, but...maybe that's just where he went because it's home to him, and for whatever reason the timeline returned him to the same day he left the previous timeline. It still doesn't square with how much time they said had passed in FP, but...these people are bad at math.

OTOH, episodes don't always match up on Arrow and The Flash, so I also agree that Flash 302 (and 301) could have been taking place in late summer and gradually the shows will line up again before the crossover. In that case, Felicity knew about Sara/John in the premiere of Arrow. Maybe tonight will clarify (or make it even murkier, in all likelihood).

[Chaser]

They can. In Felicity's mind, what is the point of mentioning it all? No one remembers Sara. No one can bring her back. Why cause Diggle potential pain?

That said, just changing Sara doesn't really explain fallout from Flashpoint. I'm thinking there is more but it's not something that the characters are aware of just the audience. 

[apinknightmare]

7 minutes ago, Chaser said:

They can. In Felicity's mind, what is the point of mentioning it all? No one remembers Sara. No one can bring her back. Why cause Diggle potential pain?

Felicity doesn't need to tell the characters - but I figured they had Barry tell her so she could somehow explain it to the audience (like, muttering about it to herself maybe or, I don't know). Then again, I guess maybe the writers on this show are dumb enough to not ever make mention of it to the audience, and just slip John Diggle, Jr. into the show like nothing happened at all. 

[JenMD]

But the audience that doesn't watch The Flash isn't aware of the change, that's where my puzzlement is coming from.  They won't know about it until the kid mentioned by name or gender on the show, which, unless Diggle's just going to reference his child by non-specific descriptors and we never see John Jr, will happen sooner or later.   I just can't figure out a way the writers can do that without it being super confusing to non Flash viewers (ie, they'll probably just talk about the kid as if he's always been John).  Sure, the characters won't remember Sara, but viewers will and will wonder where she's gone and who this little boy is without some kind of reference to Flashpoint.

[quarks]

I thought Flash 302 happened in October 2016 because Wally said Barry had been lying for "months," which wouldn't be true if Flash 302 happened in May.

But since my last attempt to explain things left everyone, even me, even more confused, I think I'm just going to leave it with "it makes no sense."

[BkWurm1]

Quote

I think because Arrow (and The Flash) tend to follow real time (in a general sense, not like every episode takes place on a Wednesday and one week passes in between), so I generally date the premiere episode of Arrow to be about the actual real-world date (after that it's a crapshoot unless someone mentions a holiday).

I agree about Arrow being current with the real time date but yeah, Flash seems to resume its season just where it left off though in this case, we had Barry ahead three months at first but then he went back to the same night as he'd left Joe's house in the finale so close enough.  And I agree that he probably took at least a few days to figure out stuff but I don't think the time jump had happened yet.  I kind of wonder if they confused themselves so badly that they've forgotten when this stuff was happening. 

8 minutes ago, JenMD said:

But the audience that doesn't watch The Flash isn't aware of the change, that's where my puzzlement is coming from.  They won't know about it until the kid mentioned by name or gender on the show, which, unless Diggle's just going to reference his child by non-specific descriptors and we never see John Jr, will happen sooner or later.   I just can't figure out a way the writers can do that without it being super confusing to non Flash viewers (ie, they'll probably just talk about the kid as if he's always been John).  Sure, the characters won't remember Sara, but viewers will and will wonder where she's gone and who this little boy is without some kind of reference to Flashpoint.

I suppose we could just have in the previously on's a clip of Felicity finding out that Jon Jr wasn't the original kid and then start the episode with Diggle Skyping with Lyla and kid. 

[BkWurm1]

5 minutes ago, quarks said:

I thought Flash 302 happened in October 2016 because Wally said Barry had been lying for "months," which wouldn't be true if Flash 302 happened in May.

But since my last attempt to explain things left everyone, even me, even more confused, I think I'm just going to leave it with "it makes no sense."

I just assumed that Barry Allen was a jerk to his friends in that timeline and was keeping secrets, lol.  I mean, Cisco said his brother died three months ago which Barry overheard and then Barry ran to talk to Felicity (I think that's when - it's hard to tell when there's flashbacks within an altered timeline)  Then Felicity sent him to go fix it right away and when he was getting Caitlin to bring Cisco to the family dinner, she mentioned Barry showing up at Cisco's grief support group the day before.  So at least at that point, no time jump.  I suppose Barry could have returned to the wrong time after his chat with Jay but I it wouldn't make much sense.  But that pretty much fits with everything actually on the show.

It's weird to think that Felicity would have known about Flashpoint since just shortly after they defeated Dahrk and it was just her and Oliver left in the Bunker.  They'd had the chance to clean up at least. 

Which reminds me, why no mention of all the damage to Star City in the season opener?  They talked crime concerns but not the Glades falling into a sink hole. 

[apinknightmare]

Did anyone else notice whether Diggle was wearing a wedding ring in that pic of him and his ::swallows rage:: son last night? He usually wears one, but it didn't look to me like he was wearing one in that pic (but it's tough to say). 

[BkWurm1]

Just now, apinknightmare said:

Did anyone else notice whether Diggle was wearing a wedding ring in that pic of him and his ::swallows rage:: son last night? He usually wears one, but it didn't look to me like he was wearing one in that pic (but it's tough to say). 

Do guys in the military regularly wear their wedding rings?  I mean a lot of men in non office jobs take their rings off at work as well for safety reason or to keep it from damage.  My dad didn't even wear his ring while I was growing up.  I didn't know he had one til I was in my teens when he switched to a manager position. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

8 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Did anyone else notice whether Diggle was wearing a wedding ring in that pic of him and his ::swallows rage:: son last night? He usually wears one, but it didn't look to me like he was wearing one in that pic (but it's tough to say). 

No ring, as far as I can tell ...

[BkWurm1]

Oh in the picture.  I misread the question.  It could mean something or maybe nothing.  I for one wouldn't absolutely hate if Dig and Lyla had to have another wedding, presumably one this time where they get to have a honeymoon. 

When spec about how Flashpoint would affect Dig in a personal way, not being married to Lyla was one of my thoughts (even if they were together) 

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Do guys in the military regularly wear their wedding rings?  I mean a lot of men in non office jobs take their rings off at work as well for safety reason or to keep it from damage.  My dad didn't even wear his ring while I was growing up.  I didn't know he had one til I was in my teens when he switched to a manager position. 

I just wondered because he isn't in a military uniform there (and I'm assuming he wasn't in the military at all when this pic was taken, that the timeline still stands and he reenlisted at the end of last season), and he did previously wear one (he was wearing it in the season finale).

[BkWurm1]

I'd be ok if Dig and Lyla just hadn't gotten around to a wedding in this time line but I will not be happy if they are broken up. 

Wouldn't even be able to blame stupid Flashpoint.

[calliope1975]

2 hours ago, bijoux said:

Here's a, likely erroneous, hopeful thought for the day. It has been said that Arrow would be affected by the Flashpoint at the beginning and towards the end of the season. Maybe Sara gets restored by the end of the season somehow.

 

That's the only way I'd accept this story line. Otherwise, whoever made this decision can suck it.

[Angel12d]

There is definitely no wedding ring in that pic.

*Punches Barry in the face*

[BkWurm1]

26 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

There is definitely no wedding ring in that pic.

*Punches Barry in the face*

Not ready to assume the lack of ring means anything.  Not yet.  Lives in hope for a few more hours. 

[Cleanqueen]

I do think some mixed kids tend to be darker but this kid has a darker complexion than David. I do believe that Diggle had a son with someone other than Lyla but perhaps that women and him aren't together and he is currently with Lyla but they aren't married.

[Sunshine]

They forgot Roy had been zapped once. Maybe they just forgot the ring. 

[apinknightmare]

Digg has his wedding ring on in a preview that just went up, so...oversight. Or taken before he and Lyla got married.

[Belinea]

Did everyone know that the officer was called Billy or did I just miss that?

I assume Oliver won't be jealous but will let Felicity go. He will understand that she moved on and so he will try to do the same. Probably somewhere around 5x05. That is my prediction. The relationship will be done with until the end of S5 where it might reappear to draw an audience because I am somewhat doubtful the ratings will explode after the premiere. 

Also, I thought she was unraveling because of all the guilt? Now she has a spring in her step that nobody notices? How does that go together. Maybe it is my brain's fault for not being able to get it.

Edited October 12, 2016 by Belinea

[apinknightmare]

Yeah, I assume his reaction will be the exact opposite of what a guy who was close to getting married and still hoping they'd reconcile would be. "Cool. Good for you." ::platonic shoulder pat::

Edited October 12, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Cleanqueen]

I can see him thinking that he needs to get his act together and isn't ready to get her back so he focuses on that...but this is Arrow so I guess any nonsense is possible

[Angel12d]

Felicity has a spring in her step...? What happened to feeling all guilty about Havenrock? I cannot with this!

Sounds like Oliver's gonna be totally cool with her moving on. "Ah, it was nice for a while. Here's to 'lingering feelings!'"

[lemotomato]

Funny how MG assumes we think Oliver will be jealous. He's never fought for Felicity before, why should we expect anything different this time?

[Angel12d]

Also...Felicity and Billy? His name is BILLY? It doesn't even sound right.

I hope this nightmare ends asap.

[Chaser]

Shrug.

I'm still going with the sooner they have the moving on conversation the sooner they get the temp interests and the sooner they get back together.

[Sunshine]

They like that name evidently. Oliver's son is called William but Felicity 's boyfriend goes by Billy.

[Chaser]

Just now, Sunshine said:

They like that name evidently. Oliver's son is called William but Felicity 's boyfriend goes by Billy.

Cockblocks. Both of them.

[Belinea]

Maybe Felicity and Billy will have an epic, game changing type of romance because that is something the show needs. 

At some point, I always assume I cannot be more baffled but every time I am proven wrong. Somehow this reminds me of the John Oliver segment. "Can you see rock bottom from down here? It is all the way up there' - waits one week - " Last week we could still see it, this week we can only see where we were last week".

[dtissagirl]

Maybe Mayo is Oliver's demon spawn who time traveled from the 2040s to fuck with everyone.

[Angel12d]

Yeah, I'm definitely not sticking around to watch this train wreck. Just when I feel like I've accepted all this crap, I get rage-y again. It's not worth it.

Edited October 12, 2016 by Angel12d

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

Maybe Mayo is Oliver's demon spawn who time traveled from the 2040s to fuck with everyone.

We'll know if we get a shot of him coloring after a long, stressful day at the good 'ol SCPD.

[apinknightmare]

Also, someone please remind me - when was the last time MG said Oliver's reaction to something wasn't going to be what we'd think it'd be. Was that with Ray? 

[dtissagirl]

Follow up: when has MG saying something wouldn't be expected actually came true?

[Sunshine]

They really thought we loved S1 that much or is D.C insisting on GA/BC?  Seems to me someone doesn't care for the original TV characters.

Edited October 12, 2016 by Sunshine

[Belinea]

Oliver's reaction is never anything but stiff. He rarely reacts like everyone and their mother would assume a person would. 

With Ray he was jealous and at a certain point resigned but he wished her all the best because all he wants for her is to be happy.

[Belinea]

Also, I get that as a show runner you should write your own show and not listen to outside influences but I will never understand why they try so hard to alienate every single fandom. I mean shouldn't they pick what works, what can people get excited and put a spin on it? Maybe make an outline and go from there. They managed to piss off so many viewers at the same time that I assume that people really become indifferent because they don't understand the storytelling.  Therefore you get ratings that might be not what you would have liked. I am curious to see if the ratings will go up but nothing about this episode screams 'must-see'. 

Edited October 12, 2016 by Belinea

[calliope1975]

I guess I'll be relying on AU fanfic from now on. Bummer. I hope they can turn it around, but I can't watch these two just be work buds after last season. Maybe I'll catch some scenes of the noobs. I do like Echo.

Still waiting for a reason to watch. It's ridiculous how sad this makes me. 

[Chaser]

With everything that has been said in regards to Olicity, I don't know why anyone would assume Oliver would be jealous or want to make a statement or anything. WM already said they are writing away from it (among other things). She kind of tanked any opportunities to tease the storyline.

If it wasn't for the 'dating other people', this separation wouldn't bug me. I could watch a storyline for Felicity that didn't have Olicity undertones. I could watch Oliver try to balance himself without a safety net. I'm not turned off by that, I just have zero desire to watch the temps.

Edited October 12, 2016 by Chaser

[Belinea]

5 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

Still waiting for a reason to watch. It's ridiculous how sad this makes me. 

It's like a relationship where you expect your partner to change but he/she never does so even though it makes you sad you have to ask yourself: Should I stay or should I go?

Edited October 12, 2016 by Belinea

[pizza pizza]

He's probably gonna repeat the "you know how you always want me to be happy? Well as long as you're (still) in my life, then I'm happy :)" line from s3 back to her lol :( 

is everyone ready for Billicity and oliporter double dates D: 

[Angel12d]

I get that there has to be a level of suspense in interviews but maybe they're actually telling it like it is? Because there hasn't been a single interview so far which is hopeful for anything I enjoy, which means there's no point in me hanging around. Why bother watching in hope that things will turn around? I'm not waiting for scraps, thanks.

Edited October 12, 2016 by Angel12d

[tv echo]

IIRC, someone here suggested that they might try to equate Felicity's keeping the Flashpoint/Diggle's child change secret with Oliver's keeping his son secret (of course, it would be a false equivalency).

Remember that Flashpoint is also supposed to have something to do with KC's appearance in 510...

Quote

-- On what ways we might see KC appear in Arrow outside of just flashbacks, WM: "I can tell you that we're really excited about having her back. You will see in the episodes where she appears - Episode 510 definitely, our midseason premiere. Keep your eyes out for that. We're so excited about getting to work with her again and her willingness to come back. It's one of the fun parts of the show. People can leave and get killed and you can still find new and crazy ways for them to come back. I can definitely tell you that there's a way we're going to bring her back and she's going to be alive and well. And Flashpoint might have a little bit to do with that." (Oct. 2, 2016 TV Guide article, page 45 of Spoilers thread)

Edited October 12, 2016 by tv echo

[Sunshine]

Flashpoint just means Black Siren was never captured by Barry which frees her up to go to Star City.  Probably seeing her reminds Oliver of his promise to Laurel. Cue the new "BC to be" (Tina) showing up in 5.11.

My favorite storyline "Havenrock Fallout" kicks off tonight starring Ragman as Victim and Felicity Smoak as Villain.  It certainly would explain why the narrative in the media is "Felicity Smoak, Mass Murderer".  I am guessing if she cracks Billy will be there to make it all better. 

Oliver is getting the A story (which makes sense).  Diggle will get the B story and Felicity/Thea will vie for C story.  Poor Lance.  I don't think he's getting anything. 

Edited October 12, 2016 by Sunshine