Spoiler Discussion Thread

[dtissagirl]

Oh, definitely. I'm pretty sure this forum is extremely overthinking the boyfriend, and Felicity's motivation to have a boyfriend too, on top of worrying about how the internetz are gonna react to her dating. Spoiler alert: the internetz are gonna slutshame her. Have your block/mute/ignore buttons at the ready.

But really. Felicity will have a boyfriend for plot.

Plus -- All of the hints we have that the start of the season is more procedural villain of the week than serialized arc also makes me think character development will be very sparse until 505

Edited August 17, 2016 by dtissagirl

[tangerine95]

Yeah I don't think the bf will be a big deal at all or last long or that we will be given some big reason why Felicity dated him beyond maybe something about wanting to move on from Oliver or the bf might  be a flashpoint thing. The way they're talking about it doesn't seem serious at all which does make me think it won't be written as anything serious either as an obstacle to olicity or for Felicity's development. I hope she at least gets to break up with him this time unlike with Ray.Idk maybe they suprise me, like I didn't expect them to explore Felicity's feelings about leaving everything behind to go with Oliver at the end of season 3 but they did in 4.06.So who knows but I'm not really expecting it rn when it comes to the boyfriend thing at least. 

I don't really care about what people who already hate her say tbh.I mean she did everything right in the break up, didn't even raise her voice, helped save the dumb kid and was nice to his horrible mother, said she understood the lie etc and she still got blamed so I'm thinking she always will be wrong to some people. 

[looptab]

Quote

Organic would have been having a conversation on screen in the back half of season four--maybe when they thought the world was ending?-

That was ridiculous. So the world is about to end and these two don't have any kind of conversation? Not even a line? Come on.

Do we have a title for 504?

Edited August 17, 2016 by looptab
I shouldn't post before coffee - the potential for awful mistakes is skyhigh?

[SmallScreenDiva]

So Arrow is basically pulling the same crap it's been pulling the last 3 seasons were conversations that should have happened before hiatus never happen, the issues are conveniently ignored at the start of the following season because 5 months have already passed and the relationships are moved to whatever status the plot needs them to be.

In this case, Arrow also has reason not to revive the relationship issues from last season because, as was pointed out upthread they had basically doubled down to make sure Oliver doesn't completely come out as the tool he was over that horrible baby mama drama. They certainly don't want to remind viewers what a lying jerk he'd been.

Ugh! These writers frustrate and annoy me so much. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

The writers sidestepping character moments is one of the things that makes me lose interest in a show. Fine, create drama, preferably drama that makes sense, but then give me consequences, the characters' POVs, make me feel for them..with Arrow they do everything to try to shock the viewers but other than that it feels there's no plan and it's more frustrating than entertaining for me. Also I rolled my eyes when I saw the section that is supposed to be about Felicity being about how she is Oliver's cheerleader like in season 1.

Edited August 18, 2016 by Midnight Lullaby

[BkWurm1]

15 hours ago, Angel12d said:

Felicity might as well just be a prop. OH WAIT she already is.

And O/F not having a conversation on screen about their relationship just because we're to assume they had it off screen in those 5 missing months is crap. 

And when they realized that they could not logically have them have that conversation five months later, that is the moment that they should have dumped their automatic fast forward and done something differently.  Stop making the character fit the plot and instead make the plot fit the characters.  If five months later is too late for vital character beats, have the fricken show pick up a hell of a lot sooner and THEN have your time jump after an initial episode.

11 hours ago, statsgirl said:

One of the tenets of AA is to not get into a new relationship in the first year of sobriety.   Between her feelings about what happened at Havenrock (thank goodness they haven't dropped it) and giving up on having a life with Oliver, who literally is the love of her life at this point, girl shouldn't be in any kind of romantic relationship.  Add to that the fact that the three big relationships in her life (Cooper, Ray and Oliver) have been men she trusted but all of them let her down (Cooper in faking his death, Ray in not trusting her either about Oliver or to tell her the suit was working, and Oliver about William).  To be willing to trust someone else at this point and get into a relationship with him argues the kind of neediness we see around Donna in fanfic.  That's not the Felicity who is a role model for young women, and so I really hope this boyfriend is a result of Flashpoint.

Who says she trusts the new boyfriend like that?  Who says she's opened her heart?  Maybe she's trying to or maybe it's not that kind of relationship at all.  Maybe she's dating this guy cause it doesn't require her to open her heart or give him the kind of trust she did with Cooper and Oliver. 

 

Quote

 

 I can see her trying to date other people but it failing because she still has such strong feelings for Oliver.  But Felicity isn't the kind of woman who needs a man or else she doesn't feel validated.  Between her feelings for Oliver, her guilt over Havenrock and he strong sense of self, I can't see her being in a relationship with another man.

 

You are not going to get me to disagree that jumping back into a relationship after all the trauma she's had is a terrible idea if she's hoping for a lasting, stable relationship, but the fact that she is traumatized does a lot toward explaining why she might reach for something that could be labeled normal or safe or simple.  I don't think validation has anything to do with it. I don't think she's dating to replicate what she had with Oliver so her strong feelings for Oliver wouldn't get in the way.  They exist separately.  

While it's a great piece of advice for anyone - get your head and heart straight before you get seriously involved with someone else - it's advice that slews of smart, wonder people constantly ignore because they get involved in relationships for so many complicated reasons that have nothing to do with looking for something serious or meaningful or even lasting and for them, many of their reasons are perfectly valid because it's what they need at the moment. 

You're right that some are just needy and desperate and need that validation that they are desired but I think we agree that Felicity isn't that person so if she's dating someone this soon after a major break up, she's doing it for other reasons. 

Will it last?  Even if this wasn't a drama writing a total ship stall the answer would probably be no.  They call it a rebound for a reason.  I dearly hoped the boyfriend would be so short lived I could ignore his existence but that's not the vibe I'm getting.  But I still think he will be unimportant in the long run.  So while Felicity may make choices I wouldn't choose for myself, I don't feel her choices diminish her character's integrity or strength or even her characterization. 

Felicity has shown that she taps into her strength when she faces heartbreak and finds a way to move forward.  Maybe this is a case of too much of a good thing this time around but it remains IMO true to her characterization.  I do find her brave for trying at least to move on when it would be so much easier to curl up and hide from any emotional demands.  

That said I hate I'm stuck watching any of it (see here is a case where I'd be super happy to be told and not shown) but until MG comes to his senses and puts us in charge, it is what it is.

Edited August 17, 2016 by BkWurm1

[Belinea]

So, since EBR seems to be in Hawaii on vacation, does that mean she will not be in 5x04 all that much? 

[Carrie Ann]

I was wondering the same thing. I'm guessing she won't be in it much, or at least the scenes she's in will be very contained--one set, the same scene partners--so they were able to schedule them all together at the end of this week.

[tv echo]

I hate to say it, but despite my best efforts to remain positive, I'm starting to lose enthusiasm for Arrow. This blatant reset to S1 - and esp. reading those latest IGN spoilers for S5 - makes me wonder what was the point of watching the past four seasons? A lot of the spoilers just sound like the EPs are bending over backwards to please, appease and attract a certain demo.

I don't mind the show returning to more gritty street-fighting and more focus on Oliver, but don't reset everything and reduce Felicity to a prop!

Last year, organizing the S4 spoilers was a pleasure.  This year, organizing the S5 spoilers is more of a chore.

ETA: In response to someone's question above, on May 8, 2016, fan tweeted: "Colton : 'I get to come back on a few episodes of Arrow next year,'" during the Justice Squad Convention in Paris, May 8. 2016. (Slytherimpala tweet, page 36 of Spoilers thread)

Edited August 17, 2016 by tv echo

[Velocity23]

I am guessing its the same as for 4x11.  She missed a few days then also. But still had significant screentime.

[tv echo]

Since MG still hasn't posted the title page for 504, even though we know they're already shooting that episode, here's what I got from IMDB (posting here and not in Spoilers thread because IMDB is not 100% reliable)...

504 director: Dermott Downs
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt5584146/?ref_=ttep_ep4

- He previously directed 314-The Return and 316-The Offer.
- Twitter: none that I could fnd

505 director: Laura Belsey
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt5584148/?ref_=ttep_ep5

- She previously directed 419-Canary Cry.
- Twitter: https://twitter.com/ellebeeshadow

Edited August 17, 2016 by tv echo

[apinknightmare]

Counting on 5x05 to be garbage, then. 

[Velocity23]

Wow that are some kind of leaps.

[thegirlsleuth]

Isn't 5.04 the big Diggle/Oliver episode?  Not that I'm happy Felicity isn't involved in OTA activities, but it might explain it.

[tv echo]

Also note that on those episode IMDB pages, SA, DR and WH are listed as "Episode credited cast," while EBR is listed among "Rest of cast listed alphabetically."

ETA: Yes, 504 is the big Diggle/Oliver episode, while 505 is the big Felicity/Oliver episode.

Edited August 17, 2016 by tv echo

[apinknightmare]

6 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Wow that are some kind of leaps.

Is this a response to me? I mean, I am actually not getting my hopes up that 5x05 is going to be any good - and having it directed by a person who directed a not good episode doesn't help. 

Edited August 17, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Midnight Lullaby]

3 minutes ago, thegirlsleuth said:

Isn't 5.04 the big Diggle/Oliver episode?  Not that I'm happy Felicity isn't involved in OTA activities, but it might explain it.

Yes it is..Felicity and Diggle being friends was a collective hallucination apparently so no reason for her to be there LOL

[Velocity23]

I just find it difficult to judge it base on what happened in 4x19.  We wanted more female directors and i dont want my first reaction to be yikes. I gave male directors more than one chance.

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

I just find it difficult to judge it base on what happened in 4x19.  We wanted more female directors and i dont want my first reaction to be yikes. I gave male directors more than one chance.

I don't appreciate the implication that my comment has anything to do with her being female. I hope she does great and wasn't being 100% serious - she can only work with what she's given. Glad you aren't dreading it! I think it's okay if I am.

[statsgirl]

Did I dream that DR said that Felicity would be involved in getting Diggle back on the team?  Maybe 5x02 or 5x03 are the episodes with Diggle/Felicity scenes, and 5x04 is bro times.

I remember nothing about the direction for Canary Cry because I was so irritated by the retconning so maybe it won't be so bad with another script writer.

5 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

And when they realized that they could not logically have them have that conversation five months later, that is the moment that they should have dumped their automatic fast forward and done something differently.  Stop making the character fit the plot and instead make the plot fit the characters.  If five months later is too late for vital character beats, have the fricken show pick up a hell of a lot sooner and THEN have your time jump after an initial episode.

I would be happy with a flashback to their initial conversations after the season finale but how could it possibly compare to the bloody Bratva fight scenes?

[Midnight Lullaby]

3 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Did I dream that DR said that Felicity would be involved in getting Diggle back on the team?  Maybe 5x02 or 5x03 are the episodes with Diggle/Felicity scenes, and 5x04 is bro times.

I'm not 100% sure but I think it was speculation on David's part.

[tv echo]

SA responded to a fan's concern about how Olicity has been treated by writers/cast in all the spoilers coming out since S4 ended...

Edited August 18, 2016 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

Based on the TV Line thing, sounds like Human Target/505 will be positive Olicity, not negative. 

[Chaser]

Other people have mentioned Olicity with the news and I don't see an obvious connection. Are you thinking Oliver gets targeted and it makes them realize their feelings or something?

[spartan]

OLICITY is end !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, spartan said:

OLICITY is endgame !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

fixed it! ;)

[Chaser]

....game

[looptab]

LMAO!!!!1!1!!!!!!

[SmallScreenDiva]

I'm inclined to believe 505 is going to be somewhat positive for Olicity just because I think they want them in a "good" place for the crossovers (even if they blow them up at the end of crossover or the midseason finale). So far, in the past two seasons, they've made them extra flirty and cute during The Flash portion of the crossovers at least. 

[Morrigan2575]

57 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Other people have mentioned Olicity with the news and I don't see an obvious connection. Are you thinking Oliver gets targeted and it makes them realize their feelings or something?

I think there's a couple of potential possibilities. Oliver is clearly in danger, maybe he gets hurt which has Felicity rethinking her stance on "them".  This isn't my personal choice but it's probably the easiest way to move them forward.

The other possibility (which i prefer) is  that Oliver is targeted, he gets benched and they have a heart to heart over his need to go it alone. Have a discussion where he includes Felicity where he doesn’t keep secrets or lie to her. The episode ends with them taking a positive move forward. Nothing specific but, just a little bit of coming to an understanding where Oliver starts to make the change or Felicity sees that je is making an effort to change.

Edited August 18, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[Midnight Lullaby]

I think it will be positive in the sense they will do a bit of clarity on their situation, while it seems to me, from what I read so far, there won't be much or any of that in the first episodes but I don't think it will be a step towards a reconciliation. Eventually, sure, but I think they will agree they need to move on, or they are not ready to be back together or it's best if they stay friends..something like that.

[Velocity23]

Why is there a need for convo for moving on if Felicity starts the season with a bf? I really want someone to explain it to me.

[Midnight Lullaby]

3 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Why is there a need for convo for moving on if Felicity starts the season with a bf? I really want someone to explain it to me.

Because sometimes after you break up with someone, even if you are dating other people, you still hold onto the idea of being back together with that person so to have closure a talk is the mature way to deal with the situation and move forward. Especially if you plan to stay friends and keep working closely with your ex.

[statsgirl]

I think it has to be positive in some way.  The audience will be getting antsy by episode 5.

[apinknightmare]

It seems to me like the writers are actively avoiding writing any kind of "moving on" convo, since MG said they had a conversation about where things stood between them over the hiatus. I think 5x05 could include some kind of "I love you but I still don't trust you" thing, or maybe it's something as simple as Felicity telling someone else she's still in love with Oliver (or something). 

[Sakura12]

I realized that when Sara was killed off and CL lost her job. KC was ecstatic talking about her new role and never once said anything about hoping Sara/CL can come back to the show. While CL is always talking about bringing Laurel/KC back.  

[Trini]

They're doing Human Target? Aw, I still miss the TV show; not sure about watching another version.

[sadfangirl]

Going back to the boyfriend topic again, but I want to throw out a bit of a crack theory I have, which is probably wrong (someone who I shared this with elsewhere said, if only).

What do we know:

• Felicity has a boyfriend
• WM thinks we're going to root for him and love him
• He's nothing like Ray or Oliver
• Flashpoint might be part of this.

At first, like a lot of people I thought the boyfriend might be Barry - but what if it was someone else?

Then this came out:

Blind item fall casting stunt

MG loves his huge big moments. And if right, this would be huge.

There's just one person that we'd all scream with joy - Tommy...

What if Tommy's alive because of Flashpoint?

I know Colin Donnell is on Chicago Med, but that's an ensemble show and I'm sure he could be spared for a day or so as this would probably be a one-off. Plus he's suddenly doing a lot of conventions.

And this would be something that Felicity would carry with her, knowing Tommy was alive again and then he was dead because Barry reset the timeline. 

I know I'd scream with joy, as we never got to see Tommy and Felicity do a scene together. I'd love to see what might have been.

[FurryFury]

I don't think Colin Donnell being back for 1 or 2 eps is big enough for that blind item. It's probably closer to Agents of Shield spec in the comments.

[apinknightmare]

Neat theory (although I'm probably in the minority that prefers Tommy dead) but I think the "stunt casting" part of that BI rules out Tommy returning. Colin Donnell has already played Tommy - that BI indicates it's a newly cast actor, not a returning one. 

[TrueMyth]

It's a fun crack theory, @sadfangirl, and probably one of the only ways that WM could be correct in her thinking that I would root for Felicity's new guy.

[Velocity23]

[Morrigan2575]

9 hours ago, sadfangirl said:

Then this came out:

Blind item fall casting stunt

MG loves his huge big moments. And if right, this would be huge.

There's just one person that we'd all scream with joy - Tommy...

What if Tommy's alive because of Flashpoint?

I know Colin Donnell is on Chicago Med, but that's an ensemble show and I'm sure he could be spared for a day or so as this would probably be a one-off. Plus he's suddenly doing a lot of conventions.

And this would be something that Felicity would carry with her, knowing Tommy was alive again and then he was dead because Barry reset the timeline. 

I know I'd scream with joy, as we never got to see Tommy and Felicity do a scene together. I'd love to see what might have been.

Replace Tommy/Colin Donnell with Justin Hartley and you'd have a great bit of stunt casting.

Edited August 19, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[tv echo]

So no one thinks Christopher Chance, aka Human Target, is going to become Felicity's new boyfriend, thereby using her to prop up yet another new superhero? ;)

Quote

A professional bodyguard and master of disguise who assumes the identities of those targeted by assassins, the character (aka Christopher Chance) will appear in Episode 5 when he takes on a new client: Mayor Oliver Queen.

What I don't want to see - Chance assumes Oliver's persona (in tv magic, the faux Oliver is played by SA) and fools Felicity, who opens up to him about her feelings.

Wil Traval is an Australian actor (age 36). His height is reported as 6'2".

IMDB: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1505157/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/WilTraval

ETA: Is Arrow going to launch yet another new superhero spinoff?  If so, is Felicity going to prop up this superhero as well?

Edited August 19, 2016 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

Is this Chance guy a time traveler too? Because her Boyfriend appears in 501 and this guy doesn't debut until 505. 

[benteen]

I was a big fan of the first season of Human Target before Fox completely destroyed it.  Loved Wil Travel's work on Jessica Jones where he looked a little like Mark Valley, who starred as Chance on Fox's HT.  Awesome news.

[tv echo]

I don't believe we know for certain that Felicity's boyfriend appears in 501.

[apinknightmare]

Isn't it pretty likely that he does? MG told JBuffyAngel that there would be a scene in the first ep that would be difficult for Olicity fans to watch - if that's not involving her new boyfriend, not sure what else it could be?

[way2interested]

Plus in the cast's TvLine interview, they said he's in 501 (even if it was part of a joke), and even when SA dropped the news at that con he only had 501 to really go off on.

Really thinking this guy's just a one-and-done episode character.

Edited August 19, 2016 by way2interested

[Morrigan2575]

24 minutes ago, tv echo said:

I don't believe we know for certain that Felicity's boyfriend appears in 501.

I'd say it's pretty much confirmed (see below) 

22 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Isn't it pretty likely that he does? MG told JBuffyAngel that there would be a scene in the first ep that would be difficult for Olicity fans to watch - if that's not involving her new boyfriend, not sure what else it could be?

Yep.

15 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Plus in the cast's TvLine interview, they said he's in 501 (even if it was part of a joke), and even when SA dropped the news at that con he only had 501 to really go off on.

Really thinking this guy's just a one-and-done episode character.

Yep.